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BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,275
Whelp... that's that then. I'm glad more information came out.

Hard to sit on the fence with this one now. Multiple accusers almost always mean the accused did it... looking at you, Cosby.

Tell that to Mike Tyson and Freddie Gibbs. A lot of people are very aware whats going on. You cannot blame people for wanting to hear both sides when it came to light the other day. Right now is not a good look for him. Because you have people on set to vouch for these victims(if they choose so) and a digital trail with said e-mails.
Exactly.

I'll support the victim/accuser but will not actively condemn the accused or even talk shit till we get more than vague twitter posts.
 

Real Hero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,329
I don't see why the debate always rages on about who to believe. To me it's simple:

- Never call the accuser a liar.
- Don't assume the person accused is guilty based on one accusation.
- Wait to see what follows an accusation, such as people corroborating a story, a legal case, etc.

In a case such as this, where his response is poor and more people have accused him, I think it's then fair to start assuming there's quite a lot of truth to it.
bingo
 

Krauser Kat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,701
See you lose me here. You are asking for a change to guilty unless proven innocent. This doesn't fly for any other crime, it's not going to fly for this. Opening admitting you are just going to throw the innocent under the bus for your cause ultimately defeats it, as you're literally creating the very people that fight against this change, as they have been "wronged" by the system.

I'm not going to accept any system that will knowing convict any innocent person, regardless of gender, all for the greater good. The justice system is broken. No one is going to argue that. Switch to guilty first isn't going to fix it.

The current system throws victims (who are 84% women) under the bus.

Good to know you think this is cool.

Supporting a system that is knowingly exponentially more damaging to women and minorities because those few innocent (most likely men) will be hurt. fuck that. I will not turn a blind eye to the 1000s of innocent victims being assaulted and have no recourse to see their abusers brought to justice.
 

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,071
Saw both the Seth Meyer and Colbert segments and Franco is very clearly and visibly not in the answering mode about the questions. Both segments were extremely awkward.
 

Whompa

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,254
Wait, you're trying to tell me the guy who was busted for soliciting a groupie minor for sex...is a sexual predator? NO FUCKING WAY
 

legacyzero

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,252
Whelp... that's that then. I'm glad more information came out.

Hard to sit on the fence with this one now. Multiple accusers almost always mean the accused did it... looking at you, Cosby.


Exactly.

I'll support the victim/accuser but will not actively condemn the accused or even talk shit till we get more than vague twitter posts.
Same. These kind of accusations are life damning. It's necessary to wait and see. Hell, even having multiple accusers is good enough for me. At least for studios and etc to cuts ties. But I'm not for knee-jerk condemnation from the first accusation.

Also, wouldn't Ben affleck be a good example? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he have only one accuser? To which he owned, apologized for, and moved on from?
 

liquidtmd

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,134
I don't see why the debate always rages on about who to believe. To me it's simple:

- Never call the accuser a liar.
- Don't assume the person accused is guilty based on one accusation.
- Wait to see what follows an accusation, such as people corroborating a story, a legal case, etc.

In a case such as this, where his response is poor and more people have accused him, I think it's then fair to start assuming there's quite a lot of truth to it.

This is reasonable and where I stand
 

Cyclonesweep

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,690

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,867
How many times does it need to be said before arrogant, ignorant men, especially on this board, get it? WHEN IT COMES TO SEXUAL ASSAULT, BELIEVE WOMEN, ALWAYS.

Ermm... As much as i hate the dudes doing those things, i cannot go with you on that.

Womans are also human beings. They are not some special superior category that can do no wrong, nor lie nor be shitty persons. As humans beings, they can lie. And as human beings, they do.

My brothers ex-wife was violent towards their kids and she cheated on him. Yet, for the divorce, she claimed HE was the cheating and violent one and that he raped her. Even tho the kids loudly claiming otherwise, and with proof. Should the judge had only believed her and give custody to her ? I think not. And i'm thankfull it wasn't the case since she his now in prison after trying to kill someone (i think she's bipolar or something and stopped taking her meds).

So yeah. As much as we want to, we should not always believe them.

But in this case, i admit i fail to see what these women would gain by saying what they said.
 

Jadusable

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,020
I don't see why the debate always rages on about who to believe. To me it's simple:

- Never call the accuser a liar.
- Don't assume the person accused is guilty based on one accusation.
- Wait to see what follows an accusation, such as people corroborating a story, a legal case, etc.

In a case such as this, where his response is poor and more people have accused him, I think it's then fair to start assuming there's quite a lot of truth to it.


This, on the other hand, is the reasonable and mature response to have to this kind of situation.
 

Rangerx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,499
Dangleberry
The current system throws victims (who are 84% women) under the bus.

Good to know you think this is cool.

Supporting a system that is knowingly exponentially more damaging to women and minorities because those few innocent (most likely men) will be hurt. fuck that. I will not turn a blind eye to the 1000s of innocent victims being assaulted and have no recourse to see their abusers brought to justice.

This is atavistic nonsense. Someone like you will just do damage to the movement and justice for sexual abuse victims. Good thing you'll never be near a court of law.
 

Cyclonesweep

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,690
Saw both the Seth Meyer and Colbert segments and Franco is very clearly and visibly not in the answering mode about the questions. Both segments were extremely awkward.
I think it could be for a few reasons.

1. He is upset he got caught and waiting for the real big fallout.

or

2. He is reflecting on the shit he did and realized how much of a tool he is and is just going thru the motions.
 

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
If possible, please try to keep things specific to the thread's topics, which are the accusations against James Franco.

If you'd like to discuss things in a more general manner, you are more than welcome to make a thread.
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
Those are pretty damn shitty.
Looks like the one guy was banned and the other guy.
Doesn't seem like some wide spread problem on here that you and a few others seem to make it out to be.

Just because I didn't grab all of them doesn't mean it wasn't constant in that thread. The first guy was banned for saying that the people who believe victims were comparable to Nazis. Posts like those are an issue that happens in pretty much every sexual assault thread on this forum, and its frustrating to see.

This is atavistic nonsense. Someone like you will just do damage to the movement and justice for sexual abuse victims. Good thing you'll never be near a court of law.

No, actually Krauser doesn't do damage to the movement, as someone who has gone through something like this, I can tell you, just putting everything on the current system and saying that's good enough is shitty. The current system doesn't work, and it needs to be fixed. These women are coming forward publicly because it doesn't work. They know that if they reported these to the police, he would never be found guilty. That doesn't mean he didn't do it though and putting all of your faith in a broken system that fails victims constantly is nonsense.
 

Jadusable

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,020
I think it could be for a few reasons.

1. He is upset he got caught and waiting for the real big fallout.

or

2. He is reflecting on the shit he did and realized how much of a tool he is and is just going thru the motions.


Maybe he realizes that getting blindsided in a "gotcha" moment during an interview about promoting his movie is not the best way to make a formal statement on the issue.


As to why he's still on a press tour I have no idea. Not a smart move at all, even if all of the allegations are false.
 

FrakEarth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,277
Liverpool, UK
Yes, the system is broken. That's why they're coming out publicly with it because the system doesn't work. You can say "Things should be changed" but this has been an issue for decades at minimum, and it hasn't changed. Telling these women to stop coming out like this because its "wrongheaded" and "tyrannical" is still missing the point. He will literally never be proven guilty for this with the way the system works. Do you think that makes him innocent?

These women are absolutely entitled to keep "coming out like this", the movement of people coming forward is absolutely a positive thing - I'm not sure how you inferred from my post that I might have thought otherwise. I would personally hope that it will continue to bring about seismic change and discussion.

I only had an instinct to comment on this thread at all when I read people saying that allegations should automatically be treated as true. I profoundly disagree with that. I think Franco appears to be guilty as sin, his body language is telling, the common thread of allegations is telling, and people can treat him accordingly - but in the eyes of the law, I do believe he's allowed the presumption of innocence.

It is certainly true that men in position of power are harder to prosecute. It is hard for them to be challenged. It is too easy for them to exploit their position. It can be a challenging predicament to be faced with requiring a burden of proof in the face of horrifying injustice. I don't believe we need to treat all allegations as true in order to convict these people - we merely need to entertain the possibility that they might be true and then encourage others to come forward. People can be convicted based on circumstantial evidence and based on a high probability of guilt - the United States has the most highly populated industrial prison complex in the world - when the political will exists to imprison people, they will be imprisoned. They just aren't in many cases, either because the cases are never brought at all or because people lack the means to prosecute them. It should be a matter of national, social conscience to allow people to prosecute this sort of crime. We should encourage corporate social responsibility in the organisations that employ the accused. We should be punishing people who help cover-up these things, in some cases, even to go so far as to consider them complicit in the acts themselves. But in so far as life and liberty are affected, the principle of how the law should be applied - should people come to be judged by a jury of their peers - it should be consistent. If the law is wrong or lacking, it should be improved upon.

I'm not saying don't personally judge Franco as guilty - on the weight of the things I've seen and read myself - I consider that he probably is. I'm just saying that it is tyrannical to demand a change in how actual law is applied, based on the circumstance, purely because the system has failed people thus far. "Believe women" is true to me to the extent that their claims should be acted upon in 100% good faith, and treated as potential victims. The alleged perpetrators should be treated as exactly that. I don't believe it fair or rational to mean that I should automatically believe everything everyone says. Statistical failings are not a convincing argument to wilfully dispense with the pursuit of truth and engage in potential miscarriages of justice.

The instruments required to remedy undesirable behaviour in law either exist, or can be created, without compromising the legal rationale (things like habeas corpus, presumption of innocence etc) that have guided us - albeit imperfectly - as far back as the Roman Empire.
 

emir

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,501
He's a party boy, but sexual abuse is different shit. Not cool Franco, not fucking cool. You put on that badge.
 

Rangerx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,499
Dangleberry
[QUOTE="Ketkat, post: 3152502, member:

No, actually Krauser doesn't do damage to the movement, as someone who has gone through something like this, I can tell you, just putting everything on the current system and saying that's good enough is shitty. The current system doesn't work, and it needs to be fixed. These women are coming forward publicly because it doesn't work. They know that if they reported these to the police, he would never be found guilty. That doesn't mean he didn't do it though and putting all of your faith in a broken system that fails victims constantly is nonsense.[/QUOTE]
The women who are coming out are not saying who gives a shit if some innocent people get fucked over as long as we're listened to. Thats is exactly what he/she said and it is repugnant and counter productive.
 

Zelas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,020
Two examples where the woman lied vs the copious amounts of women who went to the police and either got dismissed or have rape kits expiring in an evidence locker.

"
This may be hard to believe, especially considering that rape is a felony, punishable with years of prison. However—to start with this worst-case scenario—it's exceedingly rare for a false rape allegation to end in prison time. According to the National Registry of Exonerations, since records began in 1989, in the US there are only 52 cases where men convicted of sexual assault were exonerated because it turned out they were falsely accused. By way of comparison, in the same period, there are 790 cases in which people were exonerated for murder.

Furthermore, in the most detailed study ever conducted of sexual assault reports to police, undertaken for the British Home Office in the early 2000s, out of 216 complaints that were classified as false, only 126 had even gotten to the stage where the accuser lodged a formal complaint. Only 39 complainants named a suspect. Only six cases led to an arrest, and only two led to charges being brought before they were ultimately deemed false. (Here, as elsewhere, it has to be assumed that some unknown percentage of the cases classified as false actually involved real rapes; what they don't involve is countless innocent men's lives being ruined.)

"

https://qz.com/980766/the-truth-about-false-rape-accusations/
Being exonerated after being convicted is not the same as being accused and having the allegations turn out to be false before a process is started. The latter happens much more often. More than one is too many.

And in some cases the harm done, the reinforcing of racial stereotypes, will take years to undo. That's not easily measured so it shouldn't be easily dismissed "for the greater good" especially when some of the BELIEVE WOMEN, ALWAYS crowd will never have to deal with the consequences.
 

GonzoFro

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
38
Two examples where the woman lied vs the copious amounts of women who went to the police and either got dismissed or have rape kits expiring in an evidence locker.

"
This may be hard to believe, especially considering that rape is a felony, punishable with years of prison. However—to start with this worst-case scenario—it's exceedingly rare for a false rape allegation to end in prison time. According to the National Registry of Exonerations, since records began in 1989, in the US there are only 52 cases where men convicted of sexual assault were exonerated because it turned out they were falsely accused. By way of comparison, in the same period, there are 790 cases in which people were exonerated for murder.

Furthermore, in the most detailed study ever conducted of sexual assault reports to police, undertaken for the British Home Office in the early 2000s, out of 216 complaints that were classified as false, only 126 had even gotten to the stage where the accuser lodged a formal complaint. Only 39 complainants named a suspect. Only six cases led to an arrest, and only two led to charges being brought before they were ultimately deemed false. (Here, as elsewhere, it has to be assumed that some unknown percentage of the cases classified as false actually involved real rapes; what they don't involve is countless innocent men's lives being ruined.)

"

https://qz.com/980766/the-truth-about-false-rape-accusations/
Two examples where the woman lied vs the copious amounts of women who went to the police and either got dismissed or have rape kits expiring in an evidence locker.

"
This may be hard to believe, especially considering that rape is a felony, punishable with years of prison. However—to start with this worst-case scenario—it's exceedingly rare for a false rape allegation to end in prison time. According to the National Registry of Exonerations, since records began in 1989, in the US there are only 52 cases where men convicted of sexual assault were exonerated because it turned out they were falsely accused. By way of comparison, in the same period, there are 790 cases in which people were exonerated for murder.

Furthermore, in the most detailed study ever conducted of sexual assault reports to police, undertaken for the British Home Office in the early 2000s, out of 216 complaints that were classified as false, only 126 had even gotten to the stage where the accuser lodged a formal complaint. Only 39 complainants named a suspect. Only six cases led to an arrest, and only two led to charges being brought before they were ultimately deemed false. (Here, as elsewhere, it has to be assumed that some unknown percentage of the cases classified as false actually involved real rapes; what they don't involve is countless innocent men's lives being ruined.)

"

https://qz.com/980766/the-truth-about-false-rape-accusations/
So, no answer to the question?
Just side stepping the discussion.
You asked a question, I provided a rebuttal.
Why did Carolyn lie? You still dont have an answer to your own question. Just regurgitating random facts that have no bearing on the discussion.
I never said that women weren't to be believed.
You specifically asked what do they have to gain? And i showed that nothing has to be gained for a human to lie.
Just out of curiosity,have you watched, "The Spotlight"? You should,it will bring perspective that all, girls, boys,men,and women are abused and very little is believed.
Both men and women are abused yearly, we should believe everyone.
I support all justice for everyone.
 
Nov 14, 2017
96
That's literally all that means. Instead of the hordes of guys descending on these threads to remind us that false accusations happen and she could be a horrible liar.
Reminds me of all the white people that got so angry and offended by the black lives matter movement.

#BelieveWomen

On topic:
I always had a feeling Franco was a creep especially after he tried getting with a 17 year old a couple years ago
 

Zelas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,020
I don't see why the debate always rages on about who to believe. To me it's simple:

- Never call the accuser a liar.
- Don't assume the person accused is guilty based on one accusation.
- Wait to see what follows an accusation, such as people corroborating a story, a legal case, etc.

In a case such as this, where his response is poor and more people have accused him, I think it's then fair to start assuming there's quite a lot of truth to it.
Neither side should have a problem with this. I just don't understand it.
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
I don't know why people are saying "innocent until proven guilty"

For starters, court of law and public opinion are two different things.

And more importantly, it seems like we should "wait for the facts" because we don't know these women. So what if it was your sister, mother, wife, female friend who was the victim? Would you tell them "I'm sorry, but I have to wait for all the facts"?
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
He is literally continuing the discussion posed by the extreme line posted on page 1 using his actual experiences and you say some fucked up shit like that.

That poster was twisting that statement to make it sound like something else.

Believe Women means Believe Women when they say they've been sexually abused not believe women when they're accused of sexual abuse.
 

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,404
And watch as all the people in the last Franco thread that argued otherwise are long gone.

How many times does it need to be said before arrogant, ignorant men, especially on this board, get it? WHEN IT COMES TO SEXUAL ASSAULT, BELIEVE WOMEN, ALWAYS.


There are plenty of instances where people have been falsely accused. You have to take accusations seriously but you can't just blindly say that every single accusation is true.
 

BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,275
Same. These kind of accusations are life damning. It's necessary to wait and see. Hell, even having multiple accusers is good enough for me. At least for studios and etc to cuts ties. But I'm not for knee-jerk condemnation from the first accusation.

Also, wouldn't Ben affleck be a good example? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he have only one accuser? To which he owned, apologized for, and moved on from?
Correct. he did. He put his money where his mouth is as well. He is donating all of his royalty checks to organizations who support victims I believe.

Even still, he can't be part of the solution...
 

Nephix

Member
Nov 2, 2017
38
So how does this work? If they report him to the police, nothing happens basically, he'll be proven innocent because Hollywood is Hollywood?
How then should he go about being proven innocent or guilty if a court of law isn't enough to reliably prove whether he really did or didn't perform these assaults?
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
These women are absolutely entitled to keep "coming out like this", the movement of people coming forward is absolutely a positive thing - I'm not sure how you inferred from my post that I might have thought otherwise. I would personally hope that it will continue to bring about seismic change and discussion.

I only had an instinct to comment on this thread at all when I read people saying that allegations should automatically be treated as true. I profoundly disagree with that. I think Franco appears to be guilty as sin, his body language is telling, the common thread of allegations is telling, and people can treat him accordingly - but in the eyes of the law, I do believe he's allowed the presumption of innocence.

It is certainly true that men in position of power are harder to prosecute. It is hard for them to be challenged. It is too easy for them to exploit their position. It can be a challenging predicament to be faced with requiring a burden of proof in the face of horrifying injustice. I don't believe we need to treat all allegations as true in order to convict these people - we merely need to entertain the possibility that they might be true and then encourage others to come forward. People can be convicted based on circumstantial evidence and based on a high probability of guilt - the United States has the most highly populated industrial prison complex in the world - when the political will exists to imprison people, they will be imprisoned. They just aren't in many cases, either because the cases are never brought at all or because people lack the means to prosecute them. It should be a matter of national, social conscience to allow people to prosecute this sort of crime. We should encourage corporate social responsibility in the organisations that employ the accused. We should be punishing people who help cover-up these things, in some cases, even to go so far as to consider them complicit in the acts themselves. But in so far as life and liberty are affected, the principle of how the law should be applied - should people come to be judged by a jury of their peers - it should be consistent. If the law is wrong or lacking, it should be improved upon.

I'm not saying don't personally judge Franco as guilty - on the weight of the things I've seen and read myself - I consider that he probably is. I'm just saying that it is tyrannical to demand a change in how actual law is applied, based on the circumstance, purely because the system has failed people thus far. "Believe women" is true to me to the extent that their claims should be acted upon in 100% good faith, and treated as potential victims. The alleged perpetrators should be treated as exactly that. I don't believe it fair or rational to mean that I should automatically believe everything everyone says. Statistical failings are not a convincing argument to wilfully dispense with the pursuit of truth and engage in potential miscarriages of justice.

The instruments required to remedy undesirable behaviour in law either exist, or can be created, without compromising the legal rationale (things like habeas corpus, presumption of innocence etc) that have guided us - albeit imperfectly - as far back as the Roman Empire.

Franco will never be found guilty of any of this. He likely will never face any consequences for this either. Saying you don't believe what they say, because that's not fair and rational, and that its a miscarriage of justice to want these people held accountable is ridiculous.
 

GotMineGood

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
801
You must've missed this part:

"She told the Times that Franco pressured her into performing oral sex in a car, and described the incident: "I was talking to him, all of a sudden his penis was out. I got really nervous, and I said, 'Can we do this later?' He was kind of nudging my head down, and I just didn't want him to hate me, so I did it." To get out of the situation, she says she told Franco she could see someone near the car."
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
Yeah, I know. It's just the language that bothered me. If they'd said believe victims I probably wouldn't have said anything. I fully support the current climate of women coming out and exposing all these men that have abused their power. And the focus should totally be on them for sure.

That's clearly what they said though.

You twisted it around.
 

Cyclonesweep

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,690
You must've missed this part:

"She told the Times that Franco pressured her into performing oral sex in a car, and described the incident: "I was talking to him, all of a sudden his penis was out. I got really nervous, and I said, 'Can we do this later?' He was kind of nudging my head down, and I just didn't want him to hate me, so I did it." To get out of the situation, she says she told Franco she could see someone near the car."
The world seems like a fucked up place for women. I could never imagine being in a situation where I felt like I had to do something sexual so someone wouldn't hate me. Sounds like something I would never do, but I have never been in that situation, nor have I been a woman so I really have no true idea.
 

DeusOcha

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
Osaka, Japan
All of you people saying "no we shouldn't believe women and give them the benefit of the doubt" or outright dismissing the phrase "believe women" are depressing. Why do you think this board was created three months ago?

Did we wait for a proper investigation to happen? Or did we decide to take matters into our own hands to create a new inclusive and regulated community?
 

Clockwork

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
864
Wisconsin
I don't see why the debate always rages on about who to believe. To me it's simple:

- Never call the accuser a liar.
- Don't assume the person accused is guilty based on one accusation.
- Wait to see what follows an accusation, such as people corroborating a story, a legal case, etc.

In a case such as this, where his response is poor and more people have accused him, I think it's then fair to start assuming there's quite a lot of truth to it.

This is the same thought process I follow, which in my opinion is the most rational one.

I got a warning in the Michael Douglas thread (and I admit some wrongdoing for generalizing/collectively speaking about this site) but I was a bit annoyed by the sheer quantity of people so ready to admonish and get out their pitchforks and even more so by those that were insulted if you didn't as well.

Regarding Franco things sure do look pretty damning.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,164
The #BelieveWomen thing seems to be a backlash to decades of history (especially in the entertainment industry) where accusations against powerful people like Weinstein or Cosby or even someone like Franco would be shrugged off because of how much power, or clout, or powerful friends, that person could have. There was a time not too long ago where, depending on the person, the default was to ignore accusations against the wealthy and powerful, and label the women (and sometimes men) as crazy, or gold diggers or angry/jealous. What I take "#BelieveWomen" to mean is simply to take the accusations of a potential victim seriously. Don't brush them aside because the accused is a famous actor you like, or seems like a nice guy on tv.
 

Tesseract

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
2,646
I don't see why the debate always rages on about who to believe. To me it's simple:

- Never call the accuser a liar.
- Don't assume the person accused is guilty based on one accusation.
- Wait to see what follows an accusation, such as people corroborating a story, a legal case, etc.

In a case such as this, where his response is poor and more people have accused him, I think it's then fair to start assuming there's quite a lot of truth to it.

this is really all you can do, it seems.
 

Goat Mimicry

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,920
Holy shit. Welp. There you go. Career ended for this dude. Feel bad for Seth Rogen

Nah. Due process always. No exceptions.

You're not giving him due process here, though, given that he hasn't been charged with anything yet. And even in the unlikely event he were charged, he would be statistically likely to be found not guilty unless he confessed or if there were video evidence, so thinking the justice system is going to determine whether or not he did it is to say that he probably didn't.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
Clearly he hasn't spammed enough yet and doesn't want an actual discussion just wants everyone to instantly believe everything they see and hope it works out that way. Smfh the world these days from scumbags who commit sexual assault to shit like this.

One of those things is actually bad.

I hope you know which.
 

RedBlue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,359
Queens, NY
I think Franco seemed more believable on Colbert, but he was really focused on Ally Sheeds tweet, who is one person that can say he wasn't appropriate with? So? How about the ones that did say he was at the very least inappropriate? He didn't go into detail, says he'll let them talk, or claimed to not know exactky what was being claimed. Of course that's not the truth, he's one of the first to know, how can he not be?

Not surprised, he's been a little creepy since the whole 17 year old incident.

James Franco...ran an acting school?!?

Wasn't he a professor at Berkeley?
 
Last edited:

GotMineGood

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
801
The world seems like a fucked up place for women. I could never imagine being in a situation where I felt like I had to do something sexual so someone wouldn't hate me. Sounds like something I would never do, but I have never been in that situation, nor have I been a woman so I really have no true idea.

Klean definitely does a good job of highlighting the inherent issue many victims of sexual assault and harassment face. I can't imagine being that bad of a person that I'd willfully dismiss the words of a victim by blatantly lying about it even being said.
 

FrakEarth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,277
Liverpool, UK
Franco will never be found guilty of any of this. He likely will never face any consequences for this either. Saying you don't believe what they say, because that's not fair and rational, and that its a miscarriage of justice to want these people held accountable is ridiculous.

Erring away from an automatic assumption of truth is not the same thing as disbelieving someone. Like I said, all allegations should be treated as potentially true. Potential guilt and innocence are not the same as guilt and innocence. Potential truth is not the same as true. I also didn't say it would be a miscarriage of justice to want people held accountable. Please don't attribute beliefs to me that I clearly don't hold.

We have here in this thread someone who offered the opinion that a world in which innocent people were convicted would be better than a world in which more people were able to come forward and we were able to improve conviction rates by other means. I disagree with that. I think that's an abhorrent view.
 
Nov 30, 2017
809
And watch as all the people in the last Franco thread that argued otherwise are long gone.

How many times does it need to be said before arrogant, ignorant men, especially on this board, get it? WHEN IT COMES TO SEXUAL ASSAULT, BELIEVE WOMEN, ALWAYS.

The bolded is ridiculous. My abusive ex literally tried to do this and accuse me into order to hop on the #MeToo train and paint herself as a victim when I have actual video of her being verbally and physically abusive.

This statement basically tries to say women are incapable of lying in regard to a certain topic or are beyond reproach, and the last time I checked, that's fuckin insane to believe.

I am supportive as fuck of victims but I don't believe anything wholesale without some level of evidence.

On topic, 5 victims is a lot, and the corroborated stories lets me know that he's a dude who exploits women using power and promises, which is fuckin awful. No it's not forcibly assault, but manipulation is just as shitty in its own way.
 

GotMineGood

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
801
The #BelieveWomen thing seems to be a backlash to decades of history (especially in the entertainment industry) where accusations against powerful people like Weinstein or Cosby or even someone like Franco would be shrugged off because of how much power, or clout, or powerful friends, that person could have. There was a time not too long ago where, depending on the person, the default was to ignore accusations against the wealthy and powerful, and label the women (and sometimes men) as crazy, or gold diggers or angry/jealous. What I take "#BelieveWomen" to mean is simply to take the accusations of a potential victim seriously. Don't brush them aside because the accused is a famous actor you like, or seems like a nice guy on tv.
Amazing how similar it is to the #blacklivesmatter pushback as well. Conservatism is inherently disgusting and preoccupied with maintaining the status quo regardless of who it hurts.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
I usually treat the first accusation seriously and subsequent ones as all the proof I personally need (me not being a court of law).

I'm straining to think of one of these cases where there was a single accuser and it stopped. If that happens I'll be a lot more open to thinking it *might* not be true but will still wonder.

On a different note, I might be the one person who thought Franco was the weakest part of the Deuce, so if they lose him I'm OK with that.
 

Cyclonesweep

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,690
Amazing how similar it is to the #blacklivesmatter pushback as well. Conservatism is inherently disgusting and preoccupied with maintaining the status quo regardless of who it hurts.
It's because there is a lot of people who do not want to be painted as a villain for essentially being a white male. Which is not what blacklivesmatter or believewomen does but the phrasing makes people feel uncomfortable and part of the problem when they aren't.

I am not saying I am one of these people, once I understand the movement I get it but I sometimes hate the wording and phrasing of these movements cause I know people will get confused and feel they can't be part of it.
 

BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,275
All of you people saying "no we shouldn't believe women and give them the benefit of the doubt" or outright dismissing the phrase "believe women" are depressing. Why do you think this board was created three months ago?

Did we wait for a proper investigation to happen? Or did we decide to take matters into our own hands to create a new inclusive and regulated community?
Evilore had multiple incidents. A bad response. A questionable history. He actively hushed conversation on it. Banned those who asked questions.

Multiple points of information to look at. And most waited for his response which turned out to be terribad.

If it was one accuser and one accused, with no further information than a short description of the incident or a vague remark that implies something happened, I'm not sure the same thing would have happened. So quickly at least.

Look, we need to support the accusers/victims. But until we have more to go on, why should we persecute the accused? no other crime works that way.