James Franco accused of sexual exploitation or abuse by five women

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,389
I'd like to point out that prison vs not continuing a movie career are very different things...
 
Last edited:

Kinggroin

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
4,811
Uranus, get it?!? YOUR. ANUS.
The #BelieveWomen thing seems to be a backlash to decades of history (especially in the entertainment industry) where accusations against powerful people like Weinstein or Cosby or even someone like Franco would be shrugged off because of how much power, or clout, or powerful friends, that person could have. There was a time not too long ago where, depending on the person, the default was to ignore accusations against the wealthy and powerful, and label the women (and sometimes men) as crazy, or gold diggers or angry/jealous. What I take “#BelieveWomen” to mean is simply to take the accusations of a potential victim seriously. Don’t brush them aside because the accused is a famous actor you like, or seems like a nice guy on tv.
I think, at least in these threads, most people agree. Probably the vast majority.

Just some members got triggered and as a consequence, sidetracked by that one "always no matter what" post. Which is stupid...cause it changes the conversation, and the point still remains - pedantry aside.
 

Klean

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
641
User banned (3 days) for repeatedly downplaying sexual assault
You must've missed this part:

"She told the Times that Franco pressured her into performing oral sex in a car, and described the incident: “I was talking to him, all of a sudden his penis was out. I got really nervous, and I said, ‘Can we do this later?’ He was kind of nudging my head down, and I just didn’t want him to hate me, so I did it.” To get out of the situation, she says she told Franco she could see someone near the car."
“Kind of nudging” isn’t a forceful act, and she said she did it willingly because she didn’t want him to hate her. That isn’t the same thing as grabbing a girl by the back of the head and forcing your penis into her mouth while she repeatedly says no.
 

Ketkat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,403
“Kind of nudging” isn’t a forceful act, and she said she did it willingly because she didn’t want him to hate her. That isn’t the same thing as grabbing a girl by the back of the head and forcing your penis into her mouth while she repeatedly says no.
Come on
 

YellowMoose

Banned
Dec 21, 2017
177
WHEN IT COMES TO SEXUAL ASSAULT, BELIEVE WOMEN, ALWAYS.
I understand where you're going with this, but you shouldn't phrase it like that.

This is a thread about woman being abused/ harassed, not about guys that have been assualted
What the fuck, man.

as bad as sexual assault is I feel even worse for these women if they learnt to act from james franco
 

Zelas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,689
I don't know why people are saying "innocent until proven guilty"

For starters, court of law and public opinion are two different things.

And more importantly, it seems like we should "wait for the facts" because we don't know these women. So what if it was your sister, mother, wife, female friend who was the victim? Would you tell them "I'm sorry, but I have to wait for all the facts"?
It's not two different thing when allegations have led to real world consequences (JAIL) while some are advocating that no matter the circumstances (circumstances that sometimes involve JAIL) a woman should be always believed. Believe women always doesn't just mean only when it comes to celebrities and whether you should support their work or not.

And family members would likely already have more facts about an individual to make a better judgement, facts the general public wouldn't immediately have access to. There have been plenty of instances where family members have said "we saw this coming."
 

Gwenpoolshark

Member
Jan 5, 2018
2,185
The Pool
A lot of people in this thread seem to be making a pretty basic mistake when it comes to accusation and assumption of guilt. The court of public opinion is not the court of law, and cannot impose legal punitive measures. Therefore, seeing accusations and believing them is in no way tantamount to jailing people without evidence. People in this thread up on their high horse about how believing women is unfair to the accused should interrogate their own beliefs about sexual assault, women, and lying. We rarely have these sorts of debates over accusations of pedophilia, arson, or various other crimes with similar rates of false accusation. It always comes back to a fundamental disbelief of women's control and autonomy over their own bodies.

I fully believe that James Franco is a creepy asshole who committed sex crimes against women who he held positions of power over. I am not a member of a jury, and I cannot sentence him to anything for my personal belief. For the people acting bewildered that a man accused of these things would publicly associate himself with the #MeToo movement: Abusers are hypocrites who will use anything to deny their wrongdoing. I have known abusers in my life and it's overwhelmingly likely that you have too. They fundamentally do not believe they are doing anything wrong, and when caught they will twist everything - societal perceptions, the legal system, structures of power - to their advantage. Remember that Harvey Weinstein still hasn't been charged with anything, and nothing has been proved against him, yet it's obvious that he's a monster. The only way abusers are able to operate is by plugging themselves into a vast network of deniability that supports their image and silences victims.

James Franco was in a perfect position to operate as an abuser, and while there is not enough evidence yet to convict him in a court of law, he has a history of predation which leads me to believe that there is no reason to think he wouldn't do something like this. I understand that this is a reversal of criminal court's requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that if I were a judge handing down a verdict I would be violating the rights of the accused. But I am not a judge, and neither is anyone in this thread I suspect. The purpose of believing victims is not to tear the constitution in half or to rewrite legal rights of the accused to fit some kind of unthinking all-believing agenda wherein an accusation is as good as a sentence, it's to recognize that victims of sexual abuse live in the shadows and for too long have been trusted by no one. I refuse to pretend that I'm impartial when it comes to these sorts of cases. To assume neutrality is to still take a side. Believe women. Question the powerful. Refuse to accept the status quo.
 

Yggfk

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,076
Brazil
The #BelieveWomen thing seems to be a backlash to decades of history (especially in the entertainment industry) where accusations against powerful people like Weinstein or Cosby or even someone like Franco would be shrugged off because of how much power, or clout, or powerful friends, that person could have. There was a time not too long ago where, depending on the person, the default was to ignore accusations against the wealthy and powerful, and label the women (and sometimes men) as crazy, or gold diggers or angry/jealous. What I take “#BelieveWomen” to mean is simply to take the accusations of a potential victim seriously. Don’t brush them aside because the accused is a famous actor you like, or seems like a nice guy on tv.
 

138

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
416
Franco is a creep and an asshole. That's basically what I'm getting from the LA Times article.
 

GotMineGood

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
801
“Kind of nudging” isn’t a forceful act, and she said she did it willingly because she didn’t want him to hate her. That isn’t the same thing as grabbing a girl by the back of the head and forcing your penis into her mouth while she repeatedly says no.
look at this garbage response peeps. bask in it. this is what women face. daily. this kind of bullshit.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,158
Providence / Boston
Evilore had multiple incidents. A bad response. A questionable history. He actively hushed conversation on it. Banned those who asked questions.

Multiple points of information to look at. And most waited for his response which turned out to be terribad.

If it was one accuser and one accused, with no further information than a short description of the incident or a vague remark that implies something happened, I'm not sure the same thing would have happened. So quickly at least.

Look, we need to support the accusers/victims. But until we have more to go on, why should we persecute the accused? no other crime works that way.
Evilore's history already also including lying about knowing the name of a moderator who was later arrested for child porn. There was a clear issue with Evilore and his response to the mods that was leaked out was near sociopathic. And his public response to the accusation, where he put the blame on the forum itself, was disgusting and clearly a way of moving the blame elsewhere.

There was certainly enough there to believe the accuser, without question.
 

ronaldthump

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,439
See you lose me here. You are asking for a change to guilty unless proven innocent. This doesn't fly for any other crime, it's not going to fly for this. Opening admitting you are just going to throw the innocent under the bus for your cause ultimately defeats it, as you're literally creating the very people that fight against this change, as they have been "wronged" by the system.

I'm not going to accept any system that will knowing convict any innocent person, regardless of gender, all for the greater good. The justice system is broken. No one is going to argue that. Switch to guilty first isn't going to fix it.

Women need to be taken seriously each and every time an accusation is placed. But there should always be, even if it's just a formality given the weight and evidence behind the accusation, a chance for the accused to make some sort of statement or defend themselves.

James Franco is not doing a good job defending himself. His career, and life, will likely suffer the consequences because of it. But at least he'll have a chance, no matter how foolhardy or dishonest it is, to defend himself. That's all I ask.
The current system throws victims (who are 84% women) under the bus.

Good to know you think this is cool.

Supporting a system that is knowingly exponentially more damaging to women and minorities because those few innocent (most likely men) will be hurt. fuck that. I will not turn a blind eye to the 1000s of innocent victims being assaulted and have no recourse to see their abusers brought to justice.
What jebusman wrote is actually reasonable.

I hate when these sort of word play argument where you try to write shit like “good to know you think this is cool” to try and win an argument. No he doesn’t think that stat you decided to throw in there for whatever reason is cool. You’re putting words in his mouth. Your words

Then there’s the throwing out of random stats and angry hyperbole

It’s innocent until proven guilty. That’s the legal system. Yes, make the accusations, if it’s proven to be true. Then sure the prep should pay the price. Jail time if need be.

It also makes me uncomfortable to read that according to you - it’s alright if those “few” innocent men will be hurt. I’m sorry but that’s just ridiculous and shameful
 

SArcher

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,669
James Franco's Multiple Man - He saves, but he rapes.
 

Ketkat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,403
What jebusman wrote is actually reasonable.

I hate when these sort of word play argument where you try to write shit like “good to know you think this is cool” to try and win an argument. No he doesn’t think that stat you decided to throw in there for whatever reason is cool. You’re putting words in his mouth. Your words

Then there’s the throwing out of random stats and angry hyperbole

It’s innocent until proven guilty. That’s the legal system. Yes, make the accusations, if it’s proven to be true. Then sure the prep should pay the price. Jail time if need be.

It also makes me uncomfortable to read that according to you - it’s alright if those “few” innocent men will be hurt. I’m sorry but that’s just ridiculous.
The system doesn't work. As someone just said Weinsten hasn't gone to court, he hasn't been found guilty. Do you think he's innocent because of that?
 

TManPlays

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,778
The Internet
That's clearly what they said though.

You twisted it around.
That poster came into this thread using combative language and looking for a fight. There's a reason their post has been quoted and responded to multiple times over in this thread, to the point that their post has derailed the thread from James Franco being an asshole more than my response did.

I responded in a way to try and get that poster to think about how they try to launch discussions. I've only responded to you and another person and have tried to do so in a civil manner. You can say I'm twisting things and I understand this is an emotional subject. But you also have to understand that if a person launches into a thread using confrontational language and wanting a rumble to happen, some people are going to respond to it.

That's all I'm going to say on the subject.

As for James Franco, I really hope that Dave Franco isn't a POS like his brother. I always liked him better anyway. I think I'll gonna throw away my copy of Pineapple Express now too. I think that's the only Franco movie I own.
 

KunaiDrilla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,602
Harlem, NYC
The #BelieveWomen thing seems to be a backlash to decades of history (especially in the entertainment industry) where accusations against powerful people like Weinstein or Cosby or even someone like Franco would be shrugged off because of how much power, or clout, or powerful friends, that person could have. There was a time not too long ago where, depending on the person, the default was to ignore accusations against the wealthy and powerful, and label the women (and sometimes men) as crazy, or gold diggers or angry/jealous. What I take “#BelieveWomen” to mean is simply to take the accusations of a potential victim seriously. Don’t brush them aside because the accused is a famous actor you like, or seems like a nice guy on tv.
Well said my gee.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,389
That poster came into this thread using combative language and looking for a fight. There's a reason their post has been quoted and responded to multiple times over in this thread, to the point that their post has derailed the thread from James Franco being an asshole more than my response did.

I responded in a way to try and get that poster to think about how they try to launch discussions. I've only responded to you and another person and have tried to do so in a civil manner. You can say I'm twisting things and I understand this is an emotional subject. But you also have to understand that if a person launches into a thread using confrontational language and wanting a rumble to happen, some people are going to respond to it.

That's all I'm going to say on the subject.

As for James Franco, I really hope that Dave Franco isn't a POS like his brother. I always liked him better anyway. I think I'll gonna throw away my copy of Pineapple Express now too. I think that's the only Franco movie I own.
People react to Believe Women no matter how it's said. It is not good faith to interpret what that poster said, aggressively as it was, as saying anything but when women speak up about sexual assault, harassment, abuse and rape, believe them.
 

FireSafetyBear

Banned for use of an alt-account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,248
“Kind of nudging” isn’t a forceful act, and she said she did it willingly because she didn’t want him to hate her. That isn’t the same thing as grabbing a girl by the back of the head and forcing your penis into her mouth while she repeatedly says no.
Hm. Any kind of resistance means you STOP
 

ronaldthump

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,439
The system doesn't work. As someone just said Weinsten hasn't gone to court, he hasn't been found guilty. Do you think he's innocent because of that?
The mods have already said focus on the Franco.allegations. What’s that got to do with this? Want to discuss what you think should happen to Harvey Weinstein start a new topic. Harvey goes to court if someone takes him to court. No one has (I don’t know if anyone has filed documents) or its in the process and I don’t know what’s happening. Do your research/ start a thread if you care so much.
 

SArcher

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,669
I'm aware of the source of this joke.

In what way do you think Franco saves?

Do you really think this is an appropriate joke to make at this time, in this thread?
I was referring to the fact that James Franco is attached to a Multiple Man (X-Men) movie at FOX. That studio is having just the worst luck with a bunch of men (Ratner, Singer, TJ Miller and now Franco) who have been accused of sexual assault being linked to their huge franchise.
 

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,638
A lot of people in this thread seem to be making a pretty basic mistake when it comes to accusation and assumption of guilt. The court of public opinion is not the court of law, and cannot impose legal punitive measures. Therefore, seeing accusations and believing them is in no way tantamount to jailing people without evidence. People in this thread up on their high horse about how believing women is unfair to the accused should interrogate their own beliefs about sexual assault, women, and lying. We rarely have these sorts of debates over accusations of pedophilia, arson, or various other crimes with similar rates of false accusation. It always comes back to a fundamental disbelief of women's control and autonomy over their own bodies.

I fully believe that James Franco is a creepy asshole who committed sex crimes against women who he held positions of power over. I am not a member of a jury, and I cannot sentence him to anything for my personal belief. For the people acting bewildered that a man accused of these things would publicly associate himself with the #MeToo movement: Abusers are hypocrites who will use anything to deny their wrongdoing. I have known abusers in my life and it's overwhelmingly likely that you have too. They fundamentally do not believe they are doing anything wrong, and when caught they will twist everything - societal perceptions, the legal system, structures of power - to their advantage. Remember that Harvey Weinstein still hasn't been charged with anything, and nothing has been proved against him, yet it's obvious that he's a monster. The only way abusers are able to operate is by plugging themselves into a vast network of deniability that supports their image and silences victims.

James Franco was in a perfect position to operate as an abuser, and while there is not enough evidence yet to convict him in a court of law, he has a history of predation which leads me to believe that there is no reason to think he wouldn't do something like this. I understand that this is a reversal of criminal court's requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that if I were a judge handing down a verdict I would be violating the rights of the accused. But I am not a judge, and neither is anyone in this thread I suspect. The purpose of believing victims is not to tear the constitution in half or to rewrite legal rights of the accused to fit some kind of unthinking all-believing agenda wherein an accusation is as good as a sentence, it's to recognize that victims of sexual abuse live in the shadows and for too long have been trusted by no one. I refuse to pretend that I'm impartial when it comes to these sorts of cases. To assume neutrality is to still take a side. Believe women. Question the powerful. Refuse to accept the status quo.

I get what you are saying. I do believe the women that have accused a lot of these powerful men of abuse. The stories are too detailed and the numbers are too great for them to all be false. I think the point people are arguing is that even if these people aren't jailed a sexual accusation can and has ruined lives so doing your due diligence to make sure the alleged crime is true helps both sides. If someone falsely accuses someone of a crime and it comes out that they were falsely accused than that will hurt the people who have been abused. Just a few months ago there was a woman that ran into a church saying a group of black men had raped her and it turned out to be not true.
 

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,732
Unfortunately, the chances of him facing consequences are basically 0. If he gets an Oscar I'm going to scream.
Just curious, but why do you say that? It seems like there have indeed been consequences for a great many of the accused harassers, and in this case it isn't like there's only one very tenuous story or anything. Definite pattern.
 

Ketkat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,403
The mods have already said focus on the Franco.allegations. What’s that got to do with this? Want to discuss what you think should happen to Harvey Weinstein start a new topic. Harvey goes to court if someone takes him to court. No one has (I don’t know if anyone has filed documents) or its in the process and I don’t know what’s happening. Do your research/ start a thread if you care so much.
Its a genuine question. Weinstein is without a doubt guilty and a huge piece of shit. But he hasn't gone to court, and hasn't been found guilty there. Why is it okay for us to condemn him when he hasn't been to court but you don't like it about others? This directly relates to the Franco allegations because you're using innocent until proven guilty, which isn't how we treat someone like Weinstein at all.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,251
I was referring to the fact that James Franco is attached to a Multiple Man (X-Men) movie at FOX. That studio is having just the worst luck with a bunch of men (Ratner, Singer, TJ Miller and now Franco) who have been accused of sexual assault being linked to their huge franchise.
And...you find that concern over a movie is a good addition to a thread about abuse of power?
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,389
Jail shouldn;t even be talked about.... Jail is not what's going to happen here even in the best case scenario


In fact that's true for MeToo in general so fretting about jail in terms of these accused men is almost a distraction

I'll say it again losing a movie career is different than jail
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,319
It's because there is a lot of people who do not want to be painted as a villain for essentially being a white male. Which is not what blacklivesmatter or believewomen does but the phrasing makes people feel uncomfortable and part of the problem when they aren't.
That's not actually true, though. If it were, the same people would be freaking out over #bluelivesmatter. They know what the movements represent, and that's what they oppose.
 

Deleted member 835

User requested account deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,660
Just curious, but why do you say that? It seems like there have indeed been consequences for a great many of the accused harassers, and in this case it isn't like there's only one very tenuous story or anything. Definite pattern.
Even if Franco's movie career is over which I doubt, he is still a millionaire and can live his life
 

SArcher

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,669
And...you find that concern over a movie is a good addition to a thread about abuse of power?
Well, with that post I was aiming to present my own negative view of Franco in light of these accusations in a jokey way. I'm sorry if that offended you or anyone else. I am by no means on his side.
 

138

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
416
User warned: backseat moderating, defending the downplaying of sexual assault as "another opinion"
“Kind of nudging” isn’t a forceful act, and she said she did it willingly because she didn’t want him to hate her. That isn’t the same thing as grabbing a girl by the back of the head and forcing your penis into her mouth while she repeatedly says no.
look at this garbage response peeps. bask in it. this is what women face. daily. this kind of bullshit.
Can you just stop? What he did wasn't okay
he won't stop cuz he gets away with it every time. expect a slap on the wrist at best.

edit:
I stand corrected.
So, this 'Klean' character got banned because of this conversation and for "downplaying sexual assault"?

While I do NOT agree with his assessment, I fear that an echo chamber is being created here where those of us who don't like the opinions of other posters -- no matter how wrong or despicable they may be -- are calling for sanctions against those posters.

Why?

Call that poster out for being an asshole. Have a conversation with that poster. Try to get that poster to see your point of view, especially if you think he or she is WRONG.

But to just outright ban someone for expressing an opinion is wrong. Sorry.
 

Cyclonesweep

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,103
That's not actually true, though. If it were, the same people would be freaking out over #bluelivesmatter. They know what the movements represent, and that's what they oppose.
I disagree. You are born a man or a woman. You are born black, white or whatever other race you are. You choose to be a cop, a cop is something completely else.

People are very protective about who they are.
 

Catdaddy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,559
TN
I understand the reason people enrolled there was Franco “casted from the class”, but having nude simulated sex scenes and orgies at a film school? Since it’s not actually for a movie/TV why have them naked. He really is a creep and abuse of power. And I’ve never really like him, so add in my bias.
 

GotMineGood

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
801
So, this 'Klean' character got banned because of this conversation and for "downplaying sexual assault"?

While I do NOT agree with his assessment, I fear that an echo chamber is being created here where those of us who don't like the opinions of other posters -- no matter how wrong or despicable they may be -- are calling for sanctions against those posters.

Why?

Call that poster out for being an asshole. Have a conversation with that poster. Try to get that poster to see your point of view, especially if you think he or she is WRONG.

But to just outright ban someone for expressing an opinion is wrong. Sorry.
lol echo chamber
 

Persephone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,443
So, this 'Klean' character got banned because of this conversation and for "downplaying sexual assault"?

While I do NOT agree with his assessment, I fear that an echo chamber is being created here where those of us who don't like the opinions of other posters -- no matter how wrong or despicable they may be -- are calling for sanctions against those posters.

Why?

Call that poster out for being an asshole. Have a conversation with that poster. Try to get that poster to see your point of view, especially if you think he or she is WRONG.

But to just outright ban someone for expressing an opinion is wrong. Sorry.
If downplaying sexual assault is a banworthy "opinion" I'm okay with that.
 

Ketkat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,403
So, this 'Klean' character got banned because of this conversation and for "downplaying sexual assault"?

While I do NOT agree with his assessment, I fear that an echo chamber is being created here where those of us who don't like the opinions of other posters -- no matter how wrong or despicable they may be -- are calling for sanctions against those posters.

Why?

Call that poster out for being an asshole. Have a conversation with that poster. Try to get that poster to see your point of view, especially if you think he or she is WRONG.

But to just outright ban someone for expressing an opinion is wrong. Sorry.
Consider it from the other side. How statements like his look to people who have gone through sexual assault.
 

nemoral

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,079
Fiddler's Green
God seriously... is there anyone left decent ? :(
Sure. A couple of dozen out of thousands have been caught out as creepy shitheads. That doesn't mean that A) all actors are creepy shitheads or even B) that there are more creepy shitheads in Hollywood than elsewhere. The world has a bunch of creepy shitheads, in all sorts of industries, using the good behavior of other men as a cover for their misdeeds. Blaming everyone for the actions of a few lets off the ones who are actually guilty.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,244
So, this 'Klean' character got banned because of this conversation and for "downplaying sexual assault"?

While I do NOT agree with his assessment, I fear that an echo chamber is being created here where those of us who don't like the opinions of other posters -- no matter how wrong or despicable they may be -- are calling for sanctions against those posters.

Why?

Call that poster out for being an asshole. Have a conversation with that poster. Try to get that poster to see your point of view, especially if you think he or she is WRONG.

But to just outright ban someone for expressing an opinion is wrong. Sorry.
Some opinions are worthless. Theirs was one of them.