I'd like to point out that prison vs not continuing a movie career are very different things...
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James Franco accused of sexual exploitation or abuse by five women
- Thread starter Deleted member 15428
- Start date
I think, at least in these threads, most people agree. Probably the vast majority.
Just some members got triggered and as a consequence, sidetracked by that one "always no matter what" post. Which is stupid...cause it changes the conversation, and the point still remains - pedantry aside.
User banned (3 days) for repeatedly downplaying sexual assault
"Kind of nudging" isn't a forceful act, and she said she did it willingly because she didn't want him to hate her. That isn't the same thing as grabbing a girl by the back of the head and forcing your penis into her mouth while she repeatedly says no.
I understand where you're going with this, but you shouldn't phrase it like that.
What the fuck, man.
It's not two different thing when allegations have led to real world consequences (JAIL) while some are advocating that no matter the circumstances (circumstances that sometimes involve JAIL) a woman should be always believed. Believe women always doesn't just mean only when it comes to celebrities and whether you should support their work or not.
And family members would likely already have more facts about an individual to make a better judgement, facts the general public wouldn't immediately have access to. There have been plenty of instances where family members have said "we saw this coming."
A lot of people in this thread seem to be making a pretty basic mistake when it comes to accusation and assumption of guilt. The court of public opinion is not the court of law, and cannot impose legal punitive measures. Therefore, seeing accusations and believing them is in no way tantamount to jailing people without evidence. People in this thread up on their high horse about how believing women is unfair to the accused should interrogate their own beliefs about sexual assault, women, and lying. We rarely have these sorts of debates over accusations of pedophilia, arson, or various other crimes with similar rates of false accusation. It always comes back to a fundamental disbelief of women's control and autonomy over their own bodies.
I fully believe that James Franco is a creepy asshole who committed sex crimes against women who he held positions of power over. I am not a member of a jury, and I cannot sentence him to anything for my personal belief. For the people acting bewildered that a man accused of these things would publicly associate himself with the #MeToo movement: Abusers are hypocrites who will use anything to deny their wrongdoing. I have known abusers in my life and it's overwhelmingly likely that you have too. They fundamentally do not believe they are doing anything wrong, and when caught they will twist everything - societal perceptions, the legal system, structures of power - to their advantage. Remember that Harvey Weinstein still hasn't been charged with anything, and nothing has been proved against him, yet it's obvious that he's a monster. The only way abusers are able to operate is by plugging themselves into a vast network of deniability that supports their image and silences victims.
James Franco was in a perfect position to operate as an abuser, and while there is not enough evidence yet to convict him in a court of law, he has a history of predation which leads me to believe that there is no reason to think he wouldn't do something like this. I understand that this is a reversal of criminal court's requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that if I were a judge handing down a verdict I would be violating the rights of the accused. But I am not a judge, and neither is anyone in this thread I suspect. The purpose of believing victims is not to tear the constitution in half or to rewrite legal rights of the accused to fit some kind of unthinking all-believing agenda wherein an accusation is as good as a sentence, it's to recognize that victims of sexual abuse live in the shadows and for too long have been trusted by no one. I refuse to pretend that I'm impartial when it comes to these sorts of cases. To assume neutrality is to still take a side. Believe women. Question the powerful. Refuse to accept the status quo.
I fully believe that James Franco is a creepy asshole who committed sex crimes against women who he held positions of power over. I am not a member of a jury, and I cannot sentence him to anything for my personal belief. For the people acting bewildered that a man accused of these things would publicly associate himself with the #MeToo movement: Abusers are hypocrites who will use anything to deny their wrongdoing. I have known abusers in my life and it's overwhelmingly likely that you have too. They fundamentally do not believe they are doing anything wrong, and when caught they will twist everything - societal perceptions, the legal system, structures of power - to their advantage. Remember that Harvey Weinstein still hasn't been charged with anything, and nothing has been proved against him, yet it's obvious that he's a monster. The only way abusers are able to operate is by plugging themselves into a vast network of deniability that supports their image and silences victims.
James Franco was in a perfect position to operate as an abuser, and while there is not enough evidence yet to convict him in a court of law, he has a history of predation which leads me to believe that there is no reason to think he wouldn't do something like this. I understand that this is a reversal of criminal court's requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that if I were a judge handing down a verdict I would be violating the rights of the accused. But I am not a judge, and neither is anyone in this thread I suspect. The purpose of believing victims is not to tear the constitution in half or to rewrite legal rights of the accused to fit some kind of unthinking all-believing agenda wherein an accusation is as good as a sentence, it's to recognize that victims of sexual abuse live in the shadows and for too long have been trusted by no one. I refuse to pretend that I'm impartial when it comes to these sorts of cases. To assume neutrality is to still take a side. Believe women. Question the powerful. Refuse to accept the status quo.
We are currently attempting to reach the 46th President of the United States for comment. Please stand by.
Sexual misconduct seems to be the default behavior with men in positions of power.
look at this garbage response peeps. bask in it. this is what women face. daily. this kind of bullshit.
Evilore's history already also including lying about knowing the name of a moderator who was later arrested for child porn. There was a clear issue with Evilore and his response to the mods that was leaked out was near sociopathic. And his public response to the accusation, where he put the blame on the forum itself, was disgusting and clearly a way of moving the blame elsewhere.
There was certainly enough there to believe the accuser, without question.
What jebusman wrote is actually reasonable.
I hate when these sort of word play argument where you try to write shit like "good to know you think this is cool" to try and win an argument. No he doesn't think that stat you decided to throw in there for whatever reason is cool. You're putting words in his mouth. Your words
Then there's the throwing out of random stats and angry hyperbole
It's innocent until proven guilty. That's the legal system. Yes, make the accusations, if it's proven to be true. Then sure the prep should pay the price. Jail time if need be.
It also makes me uncomfortable to read that according to you - it's alright if those "few" innocent men will be hurt. I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous and shameful
The system doesn't work. As someone just said Weinsten hasn't gone to court, he hasn't been found guilty. Do you think he's innocent because of that?
That poster came into this thread using combative language and looking for a fight. There's a reason their post has been quoted and responded to multiple times over in this thread, to the point that their post has derailed the thread from James Franco being an asshole more than my response did.
I responded in a way to try and get that poster to think about how they try to launch discussions. I've only responded to you and another person and have tried to do so in a civil manner. You can say I'm twisting things and I understand this is an emotional subject. But you also have to understand that if a person launches into a thread using confrontational language and wanting a rumble to happen, some people are going to respond to it.
That's all I'm going to say on the subject.
As for James Franco, I really hope that Dave Franco isn't a POS like his brother. I always liked him better anyway. I think I'll gonna throw away my copy of Pineapple Express now too. I think that's the only Franco movie I own.
Look up the definition of "nudge" and tell me he "forced" a girl to perform oral sex on him.
he was mocking Al Franken on SNL not so long ago, how ironic.
edit: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/10/arts/television/snl-santa-james-franco.html
edit: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/10/arts/television/snl-santa-james-franco.html
People react to Believe Women no matter how it's said. It is not good faith to interpret what that poster said, aggressively as it was, as saying anything but when women speak up about sexual assault, harassment, abuse and rape, believe them.
he won't stop cuz he gets away with it every time.
edit:
I stand corrected.
I'm aware of the source of this joke.
In what way do you think Franco saves?
Do you really think this is an appropriate joke to make at this time, in this thread?
The mods have already said focus on the Franco.allegations. What's that got to do with this? Want to discuss what you think should happen to Harvey Weinstein start a new topic. Harvey goes to court if someone takes him to court. No one has (I don't know if anyone has filed documents) or its in the process and I don't know what's happening. Do your research/ start a thread if you care so much.
Unfortunately, the chances of him facing consequences are basically 0. If he gets an Oscar I'm going to scream.
Also, dear basically every man in this thread: https://www.resetera.com/threads/on-sexual-harassment-threads-a-womans-perspective.1215/
Read this. Read it again. And again. And maybe take a few minutes to think. Please.
Also, dear basically every man in this thread: https://www.resetera.com/threads/on-sexual-harassment-threads-a-womans-perspective.1215/
Read this. Read it again. And again. And maybe take a few minutes to think. Please.
I was referring to the fact that James Franco is attached to a Multiple Man (X-Men) movie at FOX. That studio is having just the worst luck with a bunch of men (Ratner, Singer, TJ Miller and now Franco) who have been accused of sexual assault being linked to their huge franchise.
I get what you are saying. I do believe the women that have accused a lot of these powerful men of abuse. The stories are too detailed and the numbers are too great for them to all be false. I think the point people are arguing is that even if these people aren't jailed a sexual accusation can and has ruined lives so doing your due diligence to make sure the alleged crime is true helps both sides. If someone falsely accuses someone of a crime and it comes out that they were falsely accused than that will hurt the people who have been abused. Just a few months ago there was a woman that ran into a church saying a group of black men had raped her and it turned out to be not true.
Just curious, but why do you say that? It seems like there have indeed been consequences for a great many of the accused harassers, and in this case it isn't like there's only one very tenuous story or anything. Definite pattern.
Its a genuine question. Weinstein is without a doubt guilty and a huge piece of shit. But he hasn't gone to court, and hasn't been found guilty there. Why is it okay for us to condemn him when he hasn't been to court but you don't like it about others? This directly relates to the Franco allegations because you're using innocent until proven guilty, which isn't how we treat someone like Weinstein at all.
And...you find that concern over a movie is a good addition to a thread about abuse of power?
Jail shouldn;t even be talked about.... Jail is not what's going to happen here even in the best case scenario
In fact that's true for MeToo in general so fretting about jail in terms of these accused men is almost a distraction
I'll say it again losing a movie career is different than jail
In fact that's true for MeToo in general so fretting about jail in terms of these accused men is almost a distraction
I'll say it again losing a movie career is different than jail
That's not actually true, though. If it were, the same people would be freaking out over #bluelivesmatter. They know what the movements represent, and that's what they oppose.
Even if Franco's movie career is over which I doubt, he is still a millionaire and can live his life
Well, with that post I was aiming to present my own negative view of Franco in light of these accusations in a jokey way. I'm sorry if that offended you or anyone else. I am by no means on his side.
User warned: backseat moderating, defending the downplaying of sexual assault as "another opinion"
So, this 'Klean' character got banned because of this conversation and for "downplaying sexual assault"?
While I do NOT agree with his assessment, I fear that an echo chamber is being created here where those of us who don't like the opinions of other posters -- no matter how wrong or despicable they may be -- are calling for sanctions against those posters.
Why?
Call that poster out for being an asshole. Have a conversation with that poster. Try to get that poster to see your point of view, especially if you think he or she is WRONG.
But to just outright ban someone for expressing an opinion is wrong. Sorry.
I disagree. You are born a man or a woman. You are born black, white or whatever other race you are. You choose to be a cop, a cop is something completely else.
People are very protective about who they are.
I understand the reason people enrolled there was Franco "casted from the class", but having nude simulated sex scenes and orgies at a film school? Since it's not actually for a movie/TV why have them naked. He really is a creep and abuse of power. And I've never really like him, so add in my bias.
If downplaying sexual assault is a banworthy "opinion" I'm okay with that.
Consider it from the other side. How statements like his look to people who have gone through sexual assault.
Sure. A couple of dozen out of thousands have been caught out as creepy shitheads. That doesn't mean that A) all actors are creepy shitheads or even B) that there are more creepy shitheads in Hollywood than elsewhere. The world has a bunch of creepy shitheads, in all sorts of industries, using the good behavior of other men as a cover for their misdeeds. Blaming everyone for the actions of a few lets off the ones who are actually guilty.