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January Democratic Debate: Des Moines, Iowa, 9PM ET CNN

SugarNoodles

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
8,402
Portland, OR
So no answer?

Let's drop it as it feels like there's a double standard at play that we won't agree on. Have a good night.
Buddy, I didnt make the claim that Bernie Sanders is a centrist. The burden of proof is not mine.

To be clear, when you claim that Bernie Sanders is a centrist, it is not MY job to explain to you who is and who isnt a centrist. You dont have to continue this conversation if you dont want to, but lets not pretend that it stopped because of something I failed to contribute.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,277
You didnt try very hard

oh look at that you did have sources, wasn't that easy?

However, I'm still a little unclear on your train of thought here. Can you explain how Warren's submission to this cookbook proves, in your view, that she knew her family's story was false?
 

SugarNoodles

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
8,402
Portland, OR
Yea, the end of the story is her family are statistically likely to be as white as bleach and probably had a family "story" that got passed on to the point where nobody questioned it. This culminated in her taking a DNA test and self owning herself with the statistically reality that she's not likely to be native.
Not *likely* to be Native? Come on now. The moral of this story is that heritage is not something you claim based on a god damn DNA test (which she STILL didnt understand by the time she was goaded into taking it), and she had no business claiming it in the first place, which she still didnt understand by 2012.
 

Fantastical

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,705
Bernie was an independent, always has been until 2016. Are you implying he only ran because an AA woman won the dem nomination? Or that he would have ran as a democrat otherwise? Or that he should have just not ran? The guy who endorsed Jesse Jackson? Because that is ridiculous.
The point is that Sanders is both a sexist AND a racist, clearly.
 

Midnight Jon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,972
Ohio
anyway adding to my list of "vehement sanders supporters that seem to be well outside the territorial boundaries of the united states"
 

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,303
Buddy, I didnt make the claim that Bernie Sanders is a centrist. The burden of proof is not mine.

To be clear, when you claim that Bernie Sanders is a centrist, it is not MY job to explain to you who is and who isnt a centrist. You dont have to continue this conversation if you dont want to, but lets not pretend that it stopped because of something I failed to contribute.
Hmm, so only certain right wing /center right positions or histories can throw someone into being a centrist but having them on guns isn't one of them?

The way centrist is thrown around is quite arbitrary imo and often seems to mean "anyone except Bernie Sanders" so I'm legitimately curious about the metric for that label and why he doesn't meet it.
 
Jun 20, 2019
934
In 1988, incumbent Republican Congressman Jim Jeffords decided to run for the U.S. Senate, vacating the House seat representing Vermont's at-large congressional district. Former Lieutenant Governor Peter P. Smith (R) won the House election with a plurality, securing 41% of the vote. Sanders, who ran as an independent, placed second with 38% of the vote, while Democratic State Representative Paul N. Poirier placed third with 19%.[77] Two years later Sanders ran for the seat again and defeated Smith by a margin of 56% to 39%.[78]
That’s Wikipedia. He lost 38% to 41% in 1988, running as an independent. He then won 56% to 39% in 1990, again as an independent, meaning the R and I candidates got 95% of the vote. On what planet does that mean the Democrat would have won if not for Sanders?
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,277
Not *likely* to be Native? Come on now. The moral of this story is that heritage is not something you claim based on a god damn DNA test (which she STILL didnt understand by the time she was goaded into taking it), and she had no business claiming it in the first place, which she still didnt understand by 2012.
That's an interesting moral. Didn't we start out with the argument that Warren deliberately lied? Doesn't that seem different from where we ended up somehow?
 
Mar 3, 2019
412
Some of these takes are ridiculous in here. Calling Bernie a centrist? Like what? You people are losing your minds over politics, take a breather! Imagine being swayed into voting for someone else because of how someone's twitter followers act. Twitter!!!
 

SugarNoodles

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
8,402
Portland, OR
oh look at that you did have sources, wasn't that easy?

However, I'm still a little unclear on your train of thought here. Can you explain how Warren's submission to this cookbook proves, in your view, that she knew her family's story was false?
You think I'm going to continue to stomach your bad faith arguments? If you are legitimately curious about the problem with Warren's claims to Native American heritage, I'm going to suggest that you do some research and educate yourself.

Be careful though, I dont want you getting lost in a Breitbart spiral when it's the only google search result that comes up!
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,277
You think I'm going to continue to stomach your bad faith arguments? If you are legitimately curious about the problem with Warren's claims to Native American heritage, I'm going to suggest that you do some research and educate yourself.
Don't worry, I'm fairly well apprised of the material. I'm interested in whether your responses here had any coherent argument behind them. So far, every time I've asked you to spell out your position, you've responded with abuse. So I think that's fairly clear!
 

SugarNoodles

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
8,402
Portland, OR
Hmm, so only certain right wing /center right positions or histories can throw someone into being a centrist but having them on guns isn't one of them?

The way centrist is thrown around is quite arbitrary imo and often seems to mean "anyone except Bernie Sanders" so I'm legitimately curious about the metric for that label and why he doesn't meet it.
Can you stop trying to justify your wild claims because of the way other people behave/speak? That's twice in like 30 minutes. Have some integrity.
 
Mar 3, 2019
412
Hmm, so only certain right wing /center right positions or histories can throw someone into being a centrist but having them on guns isn't one of them?

The way centrist is thrown around is quite arbitrary imo and often seems to mean "anyone except Bernie Sanders" so I'm legitimately curious about the metric for that label and why he doesn't meet it.
It literally isn't arbitrary whatsoever, and you claiming so is disingenuous. Rebulicans are right of center. Moderates are "centrists", aka Biden, or a more moderate republican like say Mccain before he went crazy. Left of center are Warren and Biden. Not that hard.
 

lmcfigs

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,439
Some of these takes are ridiculous in here. Calling Bernie a centrist? Like what? You people are losing your minds over politics, take a breather! Imagine being swayed into voting for someone else because of how someone's twitter followers act. Twitter!!!
every once in a while the regular posters here try to convince gullible people that Bernie is actually not different from the average dem. they clearly don't really believe it, but its something to watch out for.
 

Brock Reiher

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,266
Bernie lost the Democratic primary as a write-in, so he ran as an Independent instead.

Is that the case? There are so few votes in the Democratic primary relative to the Republican one, it looks like he could have always been running as an independent but people wrote him in for the Democratic primary anyway. Which reflects his success in the actual election.

Surely the fact that he was a write-in in the Democratic primary suggests that he wasn't running?

edit: Yep, I'm right. Sanders ran as an independent in 88 and lost, then ran as an independent again and won. Those dem primary voters must have been big fans of him.
 

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,303
Can you stop trying to justify your wild claims because of the way other people behave/speak? That's twice in like 30 minutes. Have some integrity.
I'm not trying to "justify" anything. I continue to be baffled at why only some metrics seem to go into the mix when applying political labels.

But you're clearly not seeing the double standard that I see so I'm going to say good night to you for the second time and leave it there. G'night!
 
Mar 3, 2019
412
every once in a while the regular posters here try to convince gullible people that Bernie is actually not different from the average dem. they clearly don't really believe it, but its something to watch out for.
Literally Warren and Biden agree on most issues too. People are being divided right before our eyes just like the Republicans like it. Its just strange seeing normally logical people lose all sense and go right into "my team" mode.
 

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,303
It literally isn't arbitrary whatsoever, and you claiming so is disingenuous. Rebulicans are right of center. Moderates are "centrists", aka Biden, or a more moderate republican like say Mccain before he went crazy. Left of center are Warren and Biden. Not that hard.
Lots of folks have been calling Warren a centrist or even a Republican. Which is what's making me wonder what I'm wondering.
 

BoboBrazil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,595
Overall this was an incredibly boring debate. Lack of diversity was apparent, the questions were bad, and there didn't seem to be any fire in anyone except for Steyer.
 
Aug 27, 2018
1,285
Literally Warren and Biden agree on most issues too. People are being divided right before our eyes just like the Republicans like it. Its just strange seeing normally logical people lose all sense and go right into "my team" mode.
Yeah, I don't know enough about politics to really throw my opinion in there especially in a debate...but it seems like people definitely came in to this debate with a winner in mind and nothing was ever going to change that.
 

OfficerRob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,472
The same day he'll win California, Maine, Colorado, Okalahoma, Vermont, Minnesota, and Dems abroad while losing by less in the south than 2016? Pretty, preettttay pretty good.
And on that same day Biden will open up a big delegate lead by winning by much larger margins in the south. If current polling holds, Biden's win in Alabama would wipe out Bernie's delegate gain in California
 

SugarNoodles

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
8,402
Portland, OR
I'm not trying to "justify" anything. I continue to be baffled at why only some metrics seem to go into the mix when applying political labels.

But you're clearly not seeing the double standard that I see so I'm going to say good night to you for the second time and leave it there. G'night!
If you are that confused, try to avoid making making outlandish statements that you cant back up without resorting to whataboutisms. Good night.