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Sqrt

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,880
The Guardian said:
Trade talks will go ahead despite reported dismay at language used by Liam Fox and Jeremy Hunt

Japanese officials have reportedly accused Jeremy Hunt and Liam Fox of taking a "high-handed" approach towards a post-Brexit free trade deal, and briefly considered cancelling bilateral talks due to take place this week.

The letter, which British officials said had employed standard diplomatic language, had briefly prompted Japanese officials to consider cancelling trade talks in Tokyo this week, the paper reported.

According to the FT, they took exception to a line in which Hunt and Fox said "we are committed to [speed and flexibility] and hope that Japan is too", interpreting it as an intimation that the Japanese side lacked a sense of urgency.

An official at the Japanese foreign ministry confirmed that the trade talks would go ahead as scheduled, but declined to comment on the contents of the letter or Japan's response.

The newspaper also reported that Japanese trade officials were growing frustrated with their British counterparts, who had arrived at meetings without specialists capable of taking the talks forward.

Reports that Hunt and Fox's letter had irritated Japan are adding to scepticism over assurances made by Brexiters that Britain would ease its way into lucrative free trade deals once it leaves the EU.

To add to Britain's frustration, Japan has reportedly ruled out simply replicating the terms of a Japan-EU trade agreement that went into effect at the start of this month but which will be unavailable to the UK after Brexit. Instead, it will seek tougher concessions from Britain than it secured from the EU.

Reports of Japan's angry response to the tactics employed by Hunt and Fox emerged days after China abruptly cancelled a crucial trade meeting with the chancellor, Philip Hammond, due to take place in Beijing this week.

Source

Does Britain has any weight to throw around anymore?
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,734
Generally speaking if the UK has less to offer than the EU had, it would be natural to expect tougher deals. In some cases the UK may be able to offer more as a standalone to certain countries - for example lower regulation standards or the like - but I'm not sure how generally that will be the case, especially to countries that have signed up to EU standards anyway via deals with the EU.

Side query: I thought the UK couldn't negotiate any trade deals until it had left the union? Or is it just that they can't finalise them? Maybe I picked that up wrong.
 
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Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,677
Source

Does Britain has any weight to throw around anymore?
No.
Honestly, there's no way in hell even the Tories are stupid enough to think Japan would just replicate the Japan-EU deal with us when we have literally no leverage and are fucking clutching for any trade deals we can get. The Tories probably suggested it knowing they wouldn't get it but letting it be used as the jumping off point for negotiations.

But then again, the Tories are really fucking stupid so who the hell knows anymore.
 

NekoFever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,009
FFS, we're going around like it's the height of empire and everyone's impressed by us.

The only reason we have a sense of urgency is that we're about to have no trade deals with anyone in the world and the government is starting to panic.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Britan has nothing, they are negotiating from a position of desperation, so there is no reason why they would not only be offered the worst of deals they could accept.
 

nopressure

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,414
I doubt Japan solely took issue with the letter, but rather in context of their previous interactions with Fox and Hunt.

The conservative party is full of Trump-lites. I'm sure they irritate people on a regular basis with their narcissistic dishonest stupid ignorant "negotiations".
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
It wasn't that long ago we were seen as fairly competent at international politics, Jesus, the fall has been quick and brutal.
 

Rangerx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,492
Dangleberry
All the main trade partners will try and squeeze everything they can from Britain. They know they're in a very vulnerable position. Brexit has to be the most catastrophic piece of political self harm in my lifetime.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
Lmao... this is all tactics.

Countries one after another are going to fleece a GB that is desperate for trade deals and has pretty much no leverage and very little to offer.

The sheer incompetence of British politicians across all party lines is simply astonishing.
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,312
America
Poor Britain. I am saddened for those who voted no, mostly Britain's youth and the non-xenophobic.

They will likely watch their friends and oftentimes parents suffer as a result of this, not to mention their own.

That vote was truly a terribly stupid move for such a respected country, who used to be an empire.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
The letter, which British officials said had employed standard diplomatic language, had briefly prompted Japanese officials to consider cancelling trade talks in Tokyo this week, the paper reported.
I'm guessing this "standard diplomatic language" was from 19th century Britain "diplomacy".

Maybe they sent it in one of those song-cards that launch into music when you open them, and it opened with "Rule Britannia".
 

Daphne

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,687
I doubt Japan solely took issue with the letter, but rather in context of their previous interactions with Fox and Hunt.

The conservative party is full of Trump-lites. I'm sure they irritate people on a regular basis with their narcissistic dishonest stupid ignorant "negotiations".
You get more of that in this part: "Japanese trade officials were growing frustrated with their British counterparts, who had arrived at meetings without specialists capable of taking the talks forward. "

Part of this ignorant, stupid attitude is that you can do it all yourself and just wing it, because you're the best. They don't prepare, they don't use the specialists and experts; in short, they waste everyone's time with their bullshit. I can see why then implying the other party is slowing things down is seen as insulting to a high degree.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
FUCKING TORY CUNTS.

*This nightmare is never going to be over, is it ?

*It's a rhetorical question. I know it's not.
 

TheBaldwin

Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,280
Poor Britain. I am saddened for those who voted no, mostly Britain's youth and the non-xenophobic.

They will likely watch their friends and oftentimes parents suffer as a result of this, not to mention their own.

That vote was truly a terribly stupid move for such a respected country, who used to be an empire.

As a 22 year who will soon leave uni and properly enter the workforce and who voted no, this absolutely sucks

Thankfully my dad is off irish heritage so im getting an irish passport to held with any potential international travel, but man this is just a fucked up scenario all round
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,882
Just remember we've got weeks to secure all these continuation deals with Nations we have free trade with via the eu. And we've done like 2 or 3 lol
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,270
Brexit is just Suez 2: Electric Boogaloo. The first time, the UK lost its position as a superpower. Wonder how low the second round will go.
 

SwitchedOff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,516
Lmao... this is all tactics.

Countries one after another are going to fleece a GB that is desperate for trade deals and has pretty much no leverage and very little to offer.

The sheer incompetence of British politicians across all party lines is simply astonishing.

We get stupid politicians because many of the electorate are just as stupid andfed on a diet of dumbed down crap from the highly corrupt media.
 

SwitchedOff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,516
The only positive thing to come from this Brexit farce is that it's highlighting just how incompetent most politicians are (the Tories are corrupt sociopaths, while Labour are simply ineffectual). As for the smaller parties - they're just a mixture of vile, wet and ineffectual.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
Bad things come in three's.

Foreign office trio
Boris>Hunt>Mogg? Gove? Patel?
kVr1lFe.gif

CVAmHPL.gif

As a 22 year who will soon leave uni and properly enter the workforce and who voted no, this absolutely sucks

Thankfully my dad is off irish heritage so im getting an irish passport to held with any potential international travel, but man this is just a fucked up scenario all round
You're still very young. Leave this fucking shithole, and don't look back.

Don't let this place ruin your life.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,089
Sydney
Apart from the mistakes Hunt and Fox are making this paragraph struck me;

The newspaper also reported that Japanese trade officials were growing frustrated with their British counterparts, who had arrived at meetings without specialists capable of taking the talks forward.

They just don't have the basic institutional framework to negotiate complex deals they've been relying on the EU and are now trying to use muscles that have atrophied.
 

NekoFever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,009
Lmao... this is all tactics.

Countries one after another are going to fleece a GB that is desperate for trade deals and has pretty much no leverage and very little to offer.

The sheer incompetence of British politicians across all party lines is simply astonishing.
At least one country has it on the record that they're waiting for us to get fleeced by the US before they'll do a trade deal with us so that they can demand the same terms.
 

Kodama4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,933
Most Japanese companies are abandoning ship at the moment. Honda announced today they are closing a car factory.

Seems to me like Japan has no confidence in Brexit, maybe focus on countries that might be more easier to talk to? Canada? Australia?
 

EMT0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,104
Sounds like the Japanese can smell the incompetence and disguised British exceptionalism well pretty well
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,884
London
This country's politicians are garbage. Shows how much better off the UK is in the EU. Time to work to rejoin the EU as quickly as possible because ain't nothing stopping this brexit train before it leaves the station.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,089
Sydney
Most Japanese companies are abandoning ship at the moment. Honda announced today they are closing a car factory.

Seems to me like Japan has no confidence in Brexit, maybe focus on countries that might be more easier to talk to? Canada? Australia?

To me it sounds like if they don't have experts capable of speaking to technical deals of a trade agreement, and they expect to be treated as favourably as the EU, they're going to run into the same issues with Canada and Australia.
 

xbhaskarx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,143
NorCal
To add to Britain's frustration, Japan has reportedly ruled out simply replicating the terms of a Japan-EU trade agreement that went into effect at the start of this month but which will be unavailable to the UK after Brexit. Instead, it will seek tougher concessions from Britain than it secured from the EU.​

Of course a country with a smaller GDP than California isn't going to have the same clout in trade negotiations as the EU, which is about equal the the US in GDP.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
Everytime a new Brexit fuckery is in the news, i just want to start crying.
 

Wraith

Member
Jun 28, 2018
8,892
Pardon my ignorance of UK politics, but the two Conservative politicians representing the UK in trade talks are literally called fox hunt?
 

Zaph

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,070
So we casually walked into the room thinking we could rush the Japanese into photocopying the EU deal and they showed us how quickly they could shut us down.

Japanese trade officials were growing frustrated with their British counterparts, who had arrived at meetings without specialists capable of taking the talks forward
We need literally thousands of trade specialists post Brexit. So, so fucked.
 

BlueTsunami

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,499
To add to Britain's frustration, Japan has reportedly ruled out simply replicating the terms of a Japan-EU trade agreement that went into effect at the start of this month but which will be unavailable to the UK after Brexit. Instead, it will seek tougher concessions from Britain than it secured from the EU.​

Of course a country with a smaller GDP than California isn't going to have the same clout in trade negotiations as the EU, which is about equal the the US in GDP.

What a reality distortion. To expect a country to give you the same terms as when you were part of the collective. Point numer a trillion and one that no one who wanted this thought it through.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,089
Sydney
What a reality distortion. To expect a country to give you the same terms as when you were part of the collective. Point numer a trillion and one that no one who wanted this thought it through.

Besides it being silly in terms of leverage, there's something hilarious about the UK effectively wanting to cheat off of the EU's homework and simply replicate their deal with Japan.

The EU is useless and full of overpaid bureaucrats! Now could we uh, just, have the same deal as them that'd be pretty good we reckon.
 

CalamityPixel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,810
I've watched a lot of anime, Theresa May. Send me in. I'll get a deal that'll satisfy all them brexit baka's
 

Bazza

Member
Oct 27, 2017
822
Pardon my ignorance of UK politics, but the two Conservative politicians representing the UK in trade talks are literally called fox hunt?

I genuinely hadn't noticed that actually, so apt that they are Tory as well, but being from the UK maybe that's why I didn't notice. After Hunt's sabotage of the NHS, it's funny when I read his name my brain always switches the first letter with something else.