Don't let him yell you down. If you have thoughts that you want to share, please do so. Did you read what I posted? Do you disagree? Why?
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Japan ERA |OT| We all お箸上手 and 日本語ペラペラ in here!
- Thread starter Mailenstein
- Start date
Talking with a Japanese person about this issue and their perspective was basically as it follows.
"Although it was criticized by people abroad and a few people within Japan, in Japan we just saw it as an Eddie Murphy cosplay, there was no malice intended, if anything it's admiration to try and look like a certain character as much as possible.
Still, Japan should should become more mindful about the world views of what is considered discriminatory."
Which falls in line with what TheSporkWithin was saying, that Japanese society don't view it through the same lenses as we do.
The joke isn't that he's black, but that he's Eddie Murphy.
Of course as Aizō stated, people are still hurt by this type of portraits, which is why it's still important to have this conversations and explain to people why exactly this kind of portraits can be hurtful.
"Although it was criticized by people abroad and a few people within Japan, in Japan we just saw it as an Eddie Murphy cosplay, there was no malice intended, if anything it's admiration to try and look like a certain character as much as possible.
Still, Japan should should become more mindful about the world views of what is considered discriminatory."
Which falls in line with what TheSporkWithin was saying, that Japanese society don't view it through the same lenses as we do.
The joke isn't that he's black, but that he's Eddie Murphy.
Of course as Aizō stated, people are still hurt by this type of portraits, which is why it's still important to have this conversations and explain to people why exactly this kind of portraits can be hurtful.
You said I was immature and trying to win internet arguments. The irony isn't lost on me.
You can easily claim you're being facetious whenever it suits you, but your posts always strike me as showboating, trolling, and ego stroking.
I agree with this post (and the Japanese person's opinion).
Being from the Netherlands which has been under fire internationally for our "Sinterklaas"/"Black Peter" tradition, I see a lot of parallels between that issue and this. There are no hostile intentions with putting black makeup on white people as part of the Sinterklaas traditions: in the Netherlands Black Peter is seen as a hero and children love the character. The black paint is part of his iconic appearance, because he goes through the chimney every night to give presents to children - at least, that's we've been telling ourselves for so many years. Of course, there's no logical explanation for his red lips, afro wig or the golden earrings, etc. and there's no denying that these characteristics stem from slavery and are, in fact, racist. Still, while it might sound unbelievable, Black Pete has been so ingrained in Dutch culture that this look is not associated with racism or slavery at all. As a kid I never saw Black Pete as a black man or a racist stereotype. He was just Black Pete, my childhood hero. This is true for the majority of Dutch people.
Which is why people become incredibly defensive or offended when they're (we're) called out as "racists". There was never (at least not in my generation) such an intention, so reacting shocked or offended is a very natural and human reaction to such accusations (not saying it's the right reaction!). Just because there wasn't an intention to be racist, doesn't make something not racist, of course. I think a lot of people are starting to finally accept that maybe that thing that we've been innocently celebrating all this time and we thought was good, is actually not okay. Hell, even I was a Black Pete supporter until about 2 years ago. We're making progress, especially the younger generation.
I think this mindset is similar to the Japanese. They're not making fun of black people because of their race. They're making an innocent joke without any malicious intent. So when people call them "ignorant" or even racist, that feels like a baseless insult and it's only logical that people will react defensively. Like Dani said, it's better to start a conversations from a point of understanding, and not take an aggressive stance. It's in our nature that we don't like to admit we're wrong, especially when in our mind we've literally done nothing wrong. Yelling "you're wrong! you're wrong!" is only going to convince the other party that they're right.
I understand that the joke was not intentionally racist, but I agree that Japan should become better aware of what could be considered discriminatory or racist. It's always good to give an opinion but I would try to explain why it can be interpreted as hurtful, so that people can discover a new perspective and learn from it. That's just my 2 yen.
what irony? as far as i know this our first interaction on either site. i only lurk these threads usually. what brought me in was this very specific topic you began a discussion on because i, as a black man living years in japan, completely disagreed with your interpretation. i was also bothered by the standard i have black friends and they think this card being played. right. that makes whatever you say immune to criticism. i have no problem putting this topic to bed, but i suggest you read kubus' post and think long and hard about what causes you try to champion in this country on behalf of others. especially because in this case you have zero horses in either race.
I thought it was pretty obvious you were a certain American gaffer with European parents that got permabanned a while back. If I had known at any point in our conversation that you were black, I wouldn't have argued with you. Should've said so sooner, because that makes your posts read completely differently.
That's kind of strange, because I only responded to that mentioning the opinions of my black friends because you had said this:
without mentioning you yourself were black.hashtagrekt said:
Because how is it relevant whatsoever to my position on the topic. The fact you read my posts different or would some how just stop the conversation with me because of that fact is the most offensive thing of this entire thread. And now you know why I had the foresight to not mention it, as I've had plenty of years on this earth and on the internet to know what people do when they realize they're talking to a black person. There's the deep down buried racism, even when it's not malicious.
The user you joked about being in another thread is known to troll and be inflammatory. I didn't say I wouldn't talk to you; I said I wouldn't have argued.
If a white person tells me blackface isn't offensive, I don't really care, because it's not up to them. If a black person tells me they're not offended, then it strikes me as a more valid opinion on the matter, because they are the ones affected. It's not that odd to value the opinion of someone affected by something more than someone who's not.
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I feel like the "intention" behind something doesn't really apply all that much to how something is received. You don't hit someone with a car and then say "i didn't intend to hit them so i should not be charged with a crime".
If your portraying African Americans in general, atleast be mindful of the basic history of how that is perceived by people of color. The culture of japan is meaningless compared to the global history of how black people were treated only a few short centuries ago, not just in America, but in a majority of countries.
Speaking as a black male obviously into Japanese media culture, i always have to check myself due to how black people are portrayed in all sorts of Japanese media versus the reality. I understand that there are like 0.05 black people in Japan, but that's just why therre should be some education on racism. stereotypes and different other things. Because of the homogeneity of the country, these conversations don't even exist.
Its hard enough to talk about in America, the boiling pot itself. But atleast people are "aware".
99% of Japanese have never seen a black person in real life ever outside of television, maybe that's why problematic shit like this and the gay stereotypes persist, but that doesnt mean they arent a problem that should be recognized. As said by someone else, a lot of cultures have offensive black stereotypes rooted in their histories. They may not "intend" for them to be racist now, but many of them came from racist beginnings, that acknowledging that fact and taking steps to course correct is a big part of "getting woke" on being being empathetic from a humanist perspective.
If your portraying African Americans in general, atleast be mindful of the basic history of how that is perceived by people of color. The culture of japan is meaningless compared to the global history of how black people were treated only a few short centuries ago, not just in America, but in a majority of countries.
Speaking as a black male obviously into Japanese media culture, i always have to check myself due to how black people are portrayed in all sorts of Japanese media versus the reality. I understand that there are like 0.05 black people in Japan, but that's just why therre should be some education on racism. stereotypes and different other things. Because of the homogeneity of the country, these conversations don't even exist.
Its hard enough to talk about in America, the boiling pot itself. But atleast people are "aware".
99% of Japanese have never seen a black person in real life ever outside of television, maybe that's why problematic shit like this and the gay stereotypes persist, but that doesnt mean they arent a problem that should be recognized. As said by someone else, a lot of cultures have offensive black stereotypes rooted in their histories. They may not "intend" for them to be racist now, but many of them came from racist beginnings, that acknowledging that fact and taking steps to course correct is a big part of "getting woke" on being being empathetic from a humanist perspective.
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Hey all, thought I would jump in this thread - lived in Japan for years. Miss it every single day.
I don't know if people here follow the Japan related subreddits but this is happening(Psychiatrist Sues A Bunch Of Redditors For Criticizing His Therapy Services). It's about Doug Berger, an American doctor who, without license, offers "psychotherapy and psychological counseling" for foreigners in Tokyo.
It might serve as a good warning for those who need to find psychiatric help in Tokyo.
It might serve as a good warning for those who need to find psychiatric help in Tokyo.
I think the expectations of people from the Netherlands, which has a rich history of enslaving and selling black Africans, not to mention colonizing their native lands, might be slightly different to that of people from Japan.
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Brother is moving in March. Want to know what mobile phone companies offer good unlimited data, talk and text and which ones I can get a simcard and phone number for ahead of going there to get business cards made up for him.
I don't think you can get unlimited phone data here anymore.
You're not going to find any place that will let you start up a new contract without some kind of Japan-issued identification (alien registration card, for example).
Wow that sucks. What is going on with mobile phone companies over there? Is having unlimited data simply not something people care about?
Unlimited data was a thing when I came here 6+ years ago, but I think they were gone a year or two after that. From what I understand, wireless phone data puts a huge strain on the network, so I'm not that surprised.
The good thing is that around when iPhone 7 (I think) was released all the data caps went way up, but no, there are no "unlimited" plans as far as I know.
My company phone has unlimited data and I just use that for everything anyway. Normal plans just come with 8 or so gigs and you have plenty of wifi hot spots around the city. Unless you're streaming it should be fine. If I'm tethering it's always company phone.
Hi guys
Does anyone work for/ has had experience with any of the bigger English teaching companies in Japan?
I've secured interviews with AEON, NOVA, Interac and Gaba. Just wondering if anyone has any particular positive/negative thoughts about any of them.
I'm planning to move to Japan and start working this spring, my current stipulation being that I want to be based in Tokyo, hence having shopped around a bit and secured a few interviews, so my current position is to go for any that offer me a position in Tokyo.
Does anyone work for/ has had experience with any of the bigger English teaching companies in Japan?
I've secured interviews with AEON, NOVA, Interac and Gaba. Just wondering if anyone has any particular positive/negative thoughts about any of them.
I'm planning to move to Japan and start working this spring, my current stipulation being that I want to be based in Tokyo, hence having shopped around a bit and secured a few interviews, so my current position is to go for any that offer me a position in Tokyo.
There's nothing positive about any of them except you may possibly be able to pinpoint a location instead of being placed. Otherwise, they're terrible pay, they try to skirt full time insurance and benefit rules, they give no transitionable skills, and they offer no upward movement outside of sales-based management.
Actually you included Interac which I believe is a rotating ALT, not eikaiwa. That one might be the hardest to secure a specific location.
Actually you included Interac which I believe is a rotating ALT, not eikaiwa. That one might be the hardest to secure a specific location.
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That's quite the feedback, cheers!
To be honest I'm purely using this as a means of getting a working visa and plan to find alternative work after the initial twelve months (and will develop my Japanese on the side), that's why I'm pretty much just going for whichever can put me in Tokyo. I'm currently in the UK so my choice is pretty limited as most companies will only hire people already in Japan, so I'm stuck with this kind of eikaiwa work until I've established myself in Japan.
I have a friend who is an editor at Custom Media so I can ask if your approach is best. May be best to try and save you the nonsense of eikaiwa if you don't actually care for it. In my opinion direct hiring from overseas or transfers is the more likely way of getting into something that isn't the usual trope foreigner careers. Although I'm going to assume the money in your industry is not that good, at least for the effort.
Yeah I'm not really bothered about finding a job that will line my pockets. I figure the eikaiwa stuff is just a means of getting in the door and I'll study for N2 on the side, and then hopefully find employment using Japanese rather than relying on the foreigner doing foreigner work card.
In the end you're going to be writing in English though, because you're a foreigner. If you want an actual shoulder to shoulder with Japanese people job, I would suggest coming through the school route and then do normal 就活 or career fairs.
If you're currently not N2, and plan to get out of teaching English ASAP, I'd recommend Interac then. I was on JET myself, which is a similar situation in the sense that you are actually placed in public schools in a 9-5ish job. Every placement is different, but it's almost a guarantee that on Interac you will have leftover time to study Japanese daily. On JET I was getting at least 2 hours per day (though often 4+) where I wasn't teaching English and could study Japanese. Passed N2 and N1 in the same year, although I had a decent Japanese background to begin with. If you go with something like Gaba or AEON you will be guaranteed to have shit hours that will drain your soul. Mind you, I have never worked for Gaba, AEON, NOVA, or whatever, but have just heard all the horror stories from people I know.
Got sick, went back to my home country, unemployed, and still sick homie. Was in video games (like most peeps who leave teaching) post-JET though.
Interac is def the best if he wants to have a lot of time to study Japanese. He'd have 4-5 classes a day (max), plus days with zero classes. Can maybe get Tokyo, just request it on the application/interview. If not, can get somewhere relatively close.
Not to discourage you from giving it a try, but are you sure it's just that most companies will hire only people already in Japan or is it really that they will hire only people with a visa that lets them work in Japan? Because if it's the latter, having an Eikaiwa job won't be of much help to you, since your visa will be tied to the job. It helps to have realistic expectations of what awaits you. Eikaiwa is not glamorous and can be soul crushing from what I hear. Something like JET, even, would be way better and give you solid hours, benefits, and support, and honestly looks a lot better and legitimate on a resume. It would give you ample time and opportunities to study Japanese compared to an Eikaiwa. Even better is hashtagrekt's advice to do the school route and look for jobs upon completion/graduation. That kind of dedication would look way better to a prospective employer than someone who is obviously using shady Eikaiwa schools as a stepping stone.
I know it's not what you want to hear, but I think you would be far better off working hard in the UK for a couple of years while studying Japanese hardcore and then using the money you saved up to go to school in Japan (maybe some kind of graduate school with an intensive language course) and use that experience and education to find a job at a good company. No worthwhile company wants an unqualified foreigner with no visa and less then remarkable Japanese language skills. Without changing that, it won't matter if you're physically in Tokyo or London.
Shot in the dark, but is anyone here a full-time teacher at either a public or private school? By full-time I mean non-contracted, but with an actual teaching license (not 臨時) and a secure job at a school or BoE where you can remain until you retire? I know that in the last few years it's gotten easier for non-Japanese teachers to get special licenses (特別免許) which essentially put them on the same level as Japanese teachers in terms of pay, responsibilities, and lifetime employment. I'm asking because I'm in the process of applying for this license and was wondering if anyone who already had one could talk about their experience.
This isn't exactly accurate, if you have a working visa you can jump between any jobs within your visa category, you can even be unemployed for awhile.
A few years ago Eikaiwa visa would get you a "Specialist in Humanities" visa so it wasn't very helpeful, but in recent years they fused a bunch of categories together, right now an Eikaiwa visa should give you an "Engineer/Specialist in Humanities/Int'l Services" status, so you can work in any of those areas.
Since 2012 you are required to notify immigrations about any changes on your job status (leaving a company, changing companies), and they can revoke your visa if you're 3 months without working on a job related to your visa category without legitimate reason.
Just last year a friend of mine did exactly that, got a job at an Eikaiwa in 2016, few months into 2017 he jumped off to an IT company without issues, all he had to do was send a letter to immigrations to let them know of the job changes.
Definition of Engineer/Specialist in Humanities/Int'l Services:
Job Examples
Source
If you're under 31 you could also look into a working holidays visa, though you'd need to find a company willing to sponsor your working visa to stay permanently, so it's not as good as an Eikaiwa visa but it does leave you with nothing but free time (and you can always try to transition to an Eikaiwa after being here).
The other issue is that you need to show you have enough money to live off for a year in Japan to get this visa.
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Fair point! Either way, any company that hires you would be faced with the prospect of sponsoring your visa when it comes up for renewal or losing you as an employee, and without other marketable skills, I think it will be hard to find such a place (that you would want to stay with, anyway).
No disagreement there, having marketable skills and a good grasp of Japanese is crucial for long term, just that an Eikaiwa is not a bad entry point if you're having issues getting your foot in Japan to start off now a days. It's definitely much easier to get a job while in Japan with a valid visa than it is when you're living overseas.
I honestly have no idea what kind of long-term job a foreigner could get within the Journalism/editing/publishing field in Japan or what skills they'd be looking for besides language.
Yeah my Japanese isn't entirely useless, I studied it for three years as part of my degree (and a year at Waseda University), it's just recently I have little time to study it so I think it will be easier to pass N2 while I'm in Japan, and fully exposed to the language.
I have little interest in sticking around in the UK and studying for longer, I'm currently doing an MA so I've been in uni for 5 years already, I'm done with being a student for now.
And yeah, my plan is to hop to another job rather than renewing any eikaiwa contracts, but as dani_dc says just above, it's easier for me to find further employment while I'm based in Japan with a visa because many companies hire only domestically, and I don't have enough savings just to get a working visa and move there - I need sponsorship and a guaranteed income within a couple of months - hence the eikaiwa decision.
I have little interest in sticking around in the UK and studying for longer, I'm currently doing an MA so I've been in uni for 5 years already, I'm done with being a student for now.
And yeah, my plan is to hop to another job rather than renewing any eikaiwa contracts, but as dani_dc says just above, it's easier for me to find further employment while I'm based in Japan with a visa because many companies hire only domestically, and I don't have enough savings just to get a working visa and move there - I need sponsorship and a guaranteed income within a couple of months - hence the eikaiwa decision.
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Anyone living in South Yamaguchi prefecture? That was my haunt a million years ago or something.
I hear the US base has changed a lot.
I hear the US base has changed a lot.
I'm in Hiroshima, so that's pretty close. My wife's grandparents are in Kumage, Yamaguchi, and we go there several times a year. I used to go to Iwakuni Base every May 5th when they are open to the public just to go get Taco Bell.
Nice, Friendship Day was always a blast. I spent a whole month in the Children's Hospital in Hiroshima when I had appendicitis. There's a Subway a few blocks west(?) that was like heaven after taking my breakfast through a tube for a week.
Whoa whoa, army bases are open the the public on certain days? Is it always May 5? I wonder if one of the bases near Tokyo (Yokosuka?) do this as well.
Iwakuni Base is always open on May 5th every year. They call it Friendship Day. They serve burgers and pizzas and American snacks like Doritos and Gatorade and have air shows, but most people don't know that you can go into the commissary and they have a food court in there with Burger King and Taco Bell. Most of the Americans who go to Friendship Day just go get their Taco Bell and leave.
I have no idea about other bases but I assume they do similar things.
I use a Bic Camera sim card (uses DoCoMo network). It's fairly cheap at 2400 yen and has 6GB monthly data + calling/SMS.
There are some unlimited offers from others like U-mobile. https://umobile.jp/service/lte/
For the teacher guy: I got no experience on teaching english, but some of my friends who have done it, complained that some schools try and make you stay in an apartment that they recommend. Usually crappy and waaay too expensive and they get some commission from those apartments, so never take what they try to offer and rent from someone else.
I noticed that in China in regards
I noticed that in China with the apartments too.
Thanks for the advice.
I noticed that in China with the apartments too.
Thanks for the advice.
Anyone else in Tokyo? How's that snow treating you? I took two hours off yesterday to get home from work cause the lines were all being delayed, and now I'm just being lazy and don't want to leave the house so I took nenkyuu for the day, lol.
It's gorgeous but man what a hassle. Glad I don't live in a prefecture where it snows a lot
It's gorgeous but man what a hassle. Glad I don't live in a prefecture where it snows a lot
At the office till 11 last night and in the office by 6 today so completely unaffected to be honest. Bottom of pants a bit wet is about it. On the Yamanote right now heading to a client and totally smooth..cars empty.. most likely a bunch of people just stayed home. Good for me.
Yeah, my girlfriend went ahead without me and said the Chuo was completely fine. Unsure about the Ome, it seems to stop at a moment's notice