Japan Ranked Last Choice in Asia for Top Foreign Talent

[hashtagrekt]

Would you guys say that working for foreign firms or less 'traditional' jobs would fare better in terms of work conditions/work-life balance/salary?

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Gaishikei are known as sort of the best place to be, regardless of rank. Salary or worklife balance will simply always depend on each specific location, role, team, etc. There isn't too much of a standard when it comes to non-education jobs for foreigners here. In that sense I don't find it any different than America, for example. Europe may be another story.

 

[lordlad]

Welp...it's as they say...Anime is a mistake indeed.

 

[Deleted member 17347]

I work in IT and my wife is Japanese, so getting in and working in Japan wouldn't be much of a problem. The language barrier is an obstacle, but I'm sure I could get my Japanese to an acceptable level. However, we have decided a long time ago to live, work and raise our children in Europe. This for a number of reasons:

The work environment

It's not just the long overtime, but also the mandatory going out with your colleagues after work and the strict hierarchical culture in most companies. Showing initiative, efficiency and flexibility are discouraged and promotions are often not based on merit, but on how long you have been working at a company. Taking (long) holidays is frowned upon. And if you do, expect to spend at least one day shopping for souvenirs for your colleagues.

Basically, in Japan you are expected to show dedication to your company over your family. A very foreign concept for Europeans were family always comes first and companies accommodate that.

Raising children

Daycare is very expensive, if you can find it within a reasonable distance. Companies don't really accommodate you. If you come in late/leave early to drop of or pick up your children, your carriere gets put on hold. It is expected that this is the responsibility of the wife, not the husband. Also the whole education system is not based on acquiring social skills and gain knowledge, but on passing standardized tests. Bullying is a major problem that is often overlooked or ignored.

General quality of life

While Japan has some very good things like culture, quality and availability of amazing food and it's a very safe place to live. It's also had it's fair share of negative things that kind of get to you in the long run.

General unwillingness to mingle with, show emotions to and have deep conversations with outsiders. Contact with most Japanese will be superficial at best.

Housing is tiny, health care is so expensive you have to save up a lot of money just in case you get sick, public transport is crowded and expensive. Also it's a consumer culture. Everybody is always chasing the latest (luxury) product or latest food trend. This gets very tiring after a while.

Now, we still love visiting Japan once a year and we are planning on retiring (part of the year, f*ck summer) there. But this will probably be outside of the major cities.

 

[rAndom]

I'm kinda surprised about Singapore. With a large sentiment about limiting foreigners to take jobs away from locals as of late, I'm surprised it ranked the highest.

 

[mujun]

Would you guys say that working for foreign firms or less 'traditional' jobs would fare better in terms of work conditions/work-life balance/salary?

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I'd say teaching can be good but you have to put in quite a chunk of time to get a feel for how everything works and know where to look.

I work 40 hours a week, no weekends, no overtime, lots of paid holidays and make a decent chunk every year. Love my job.

 

[hashtagrekt]

I'd say teaching can be good but you have to put in quite a chunk of time to get a feel for how everything works and know where to look.

I work 40 hours a week, no weekends, no overtime, lots of paid holidays and make a decent chunk every year. Love my job.

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What constitutes a good chunk nowadays for the younger foreigner crowd?

 

[TheSaddestSort]

In regards to the study, I feel that's kind of an expected result.

 

[mujun]

What constitutes a good chunk nowadays for the younger foreigner crowd?

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5 million a year. I'm firmly in the middle-aged crowd.

 

[navii]

nobody wants to work hard

 

[Officer Big Mac]

So japan isn't having babies and they aren't attracting immigrants.

You had a good run Japan.

 

[hashtagrekt]

5 million a year. I'm firmly in the middle-aged crowd.

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Interesting. Thank you.

 

[Clerical Terrors]

I'm kinda surprised about Singapore. With a large sentiment about limiting foreigners to take jobs away from locals as of late, I'm surprised it ranked the highest.

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Those two things might be related: Singapore is attractive, ergo foreigners come there for work, ergo increased anti-foreigner sentiment. It's the standard procedure in most other countries that become prized destinations for foreigners seeking employment.

I wonder if the difference between Hong Kong and China in this ranking is going to have political implications down the line?

 

[tokkun]

Would you guys say that working for foreign firms or less 'traditional' jobs would fare better in terms of work conditions/work-life balance/salary?

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In my experience, company culture (including things like work / life balance) may be more influenced by where the company is headquartered, but salary is determined by the local market's cost-of-labor more than anything else. I work for a large tech company that is known for attracting the type of 'top talent' mentioned in this article. The average salary they pay to someone working in Tokyo is much lower than the salary for someone doing the same job anywhere in the US, and it's entirely down to the fact that high-tech workers in Tokyo are in general payed less than people in the US, even people living in low-cost areas of the country.

It's not that pay in Japan for high-tech workers is particularly terrible; it's on par with a lot of locations in Western Europe. However, in Europe the lower salaries are offset by a more relaxed work culture with generous amounts of paid time off, which isn't the case in Japan.

One of my co-workers recently transferred to Tokyo from the US. He did it because of his wife wanting to be close to her family. It seems like the only reasons I ever hear for people moving to Japan are family or infatuation with the culture - it's never because of an amazing job opportunity.

 

[Fugu]

Which is fine though. Japan is not for everyone. Though I do of course wish it was a bit more popular with non-youths who are not interested in games or similar items. The reason they pushed the exit tax reform through this year was to attract more middle to senior management from overseas rather than punishing them for coming here temporarily.

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This could be fine, but the fact that there's a pretty visible demographic crisis on the horizon and you could hardly say that the Japanese work force as a whole is happy with the way that things are makes it really hard to argue that things are okay the way they are.

 

[Linkura]

Someone else posted about this in another thread (possibly on GAF; it's been a while), but they basically took Deming too far and made process refinement itself an unrefined process. So what you end up with is stupid shit like reports that report on other reports ("today's status report is 90% complete and should be in by 7. Can you send me a status update to verify you received this?"), and it just becomes a lot of redundant work that serves no purpose.

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This was my husband, dragonchild, at the other place.

He's half Japanese and has worked in Japan and for Japanese companies both inside and outside of the country. We love Japan but the working culture is so bad that we probably won't ever live there until retirement, if at all.

 

[Jtendo '82]

Japan wouldn't be Japan if it had a huge influx of foreigners that brought their own ways and culture into the country. It's one thing I really picked up on when I visited for the first time just a couple weeks ago.

When in Japan, do like the Japanese. I think Japanese are scared that social harmony will be lost.

 

[tino]

Those two things might be related: Singapore is attractive, ergo foreigners come there for work, ergo increased anti-foreigner sentiment. It's the standard procedure in most other countries that become prized destinations for foreigners seeking employment.

I wonder if the difference between Hong Kong and China in this ranking is going to have political implications down the line?

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Singapore only tax income earned in Singapore, that alone makes it the most attractive place to reside for a lot of rich people.

 

[thetrin]

Yep, that's what I've observed, too.

Similar to being a foreigner actually. They are interested in what your life entails but don't feel like you could ever be in the group that they are.

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To be fair, as long as you're not Japanese, you will never be part of their group.

 

[Septimus Prime]

To be fair, as long as you're not Japanese, you will never be part of their group.

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Bonus: this also applies to Japanese companies in other countries.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

I love Japan but from what I hear about the work culture it' something I would avoid

 

[Brera]

I work in IT and my wife is Japanese, so getting in and working in Japan wouldn't be much of a problem. The language barrier is an obstacle, but I'm sure I could get my Japanese to an acceptable level. However, we have decided a long time ago to live, work and raise our children in Europe. This for a number of reasons:

The work environment

It's not just the long overtime, but also the mandatory going out with your colleagues after work and the strict hierarchical culture in most companies. Showing initiative, efficiency and flexibility are discouraged and promotions are often not based on merit, but on how long you have been working at a company. Taking (long) holidays is frowned upon. And if you do, expect to spend at least one day shopping for souvenirs for your colleagues.

Basically, in Japan you are expected to show dedication to your company over your family. A very foreign concept for Europeans were family always comes first and companies accommodate that.

Raising children

Daycare is very expensive, if you can find it within a reasonable distance. Companies don't really accommodate you. If you come in late/leave early to drop of or pick up your children, your carriere gets put on hold. It is expected that this is the responsibility of the wife, not the husband. Also the whole education system is not based on acquiring social skills and gain knowledge, but on passing standardized tests. Bullying is a major problem that is often overlooked or ignored.

General quality of life

While Japan has some very good things like culture, quality and availability of amazing food and it's a very safe place to live. It's also had it's fair share of negative things that kind of get to you in the long run.

General unwillingness to mingle with, show emotions to and have deep conversations with outsiders. Contact with most Japanese will be superficial at best.

Housing is tiny, health care is so expensive you have to save up a lot of money just in case you get sick, public transport is crowded and expensive. Also it's a consumer culture. Everybody is always chasing the latest (luxury) product or latest food trend. This gets very tiring after a while.

Now, we still love visiting Japan once a year and we are planning on retiring (part of the year, f*ck summer) there. But this will probably be outside of the major cities.

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I used to read a blog of a black guy in Japan...gaijan smash? Might google it and catch up.

Japan sounds like an absolute hell hole for workers. Cannot see any advantages at all.

 

[Dufus]

Does anyone know if there are parts of Japan where the work ethic is different/better.

For example people talk about Europe but how people work varies a bit from country to country.

Are there any parts of Japan where things are a bit more relaxed or are the working conditions basically the same everywhere?

 

[Septimus Prime]

I used to read a blog of a black guy in Japan...gaijan smash?

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We used to post on the same game-related forum, and there's probably a decent chance he has an account here, actually. Last I heard, he's working for a Japanese game publisher whose name we know.

 

[gcwy]

Their population decline is pretty concerning. Are they doing anything about it?

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I'm kinda surprised about Singapore. With a large sentiment about limiting foreigners to take jobs away from locals as of late, I'm surprised it ranked the highest.

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The people don't like it, but our government loves 'foreign talents'. Their long standing belief is that 'foreign talents' just does things better.

 

[Brera]

We used to post on the same game-related forum, and there's probably a decent chance he has an account here, actually. Last I heard, he's working for a Japanese game publisher whose name we know.

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Yeah, I just googled and found his last update. I feel old, I remember reading it back in the early 2000s.

Can't believe 2003 is like a life time ago

 

[Camstun187]

Can't speak for Taiwan but unless you're in Seoul, South Korea can be incredibly unwelcoming.

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Try Jeju Island

Knowing Chinese can save your ass there, as well.

 

[Spine Crawler]

wow SK and Japan both so low? why? the general quality of life and pay should be comparable to singapore at least in seoul and tokyo..

 

[Nome]

wow SK and Japan both so low? why? the general quality of life and pay should be comparable to singapore at least in seoul and tokyo..

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Awful work culture in SK and JP. SG is much more relaxed.

 

[mujun]

Does anyone know if there are parts of Japan where the work ethic is different/better.

For example people talk about Europe but how people work varies a bit from country to country.

Are there any parts of Japan where things are a bit more relaxed or are the working conditions basically the same everywhere?

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Okinawa?

 

[koryuken]

My Japanese girlfriend was telling me I could land a high-paying job there if we ever decided to move back. We currently live in Los Angeles.

I absolutely adore Japan. Their work culture is challenging but I've got a pretty crazy work ethic as it is.


HMMMMMM.

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If you are at all serious, read this first:
https://kotaku.com/5484581/japan-its-not-funny-anymore

I really don't recommend working in Japan unless you own your own small business/or work for a western company.

 

[Myradeer]

India ranked higher than SK and Taiwan?

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I can't speak for India, but I definitely know SK and Japan have crazy hierarchical business culture.

 

[hashtagrekt]

If you are at all serious, read this first:
https://kotaku.com/5484581/japan-its-not-funny-anymore

I really don't recommend working in Japan unless you own your own small business/or work for a western company.

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There are very few industries that even hire foreigners with zero Japanese experience so it's not like if you come here there is a giant list of work places to choose from. Education and IT are about it for no Japanese experience, engineering is slightly behind them because experience and skill can make up for the lack of cultural/linguistic skill. Otherwise, most likely if you are coming here to work it is because you had an opportunity through your current employer to come, in which case you are already not in the standard employment pool. Simply put, I don't think it's fair to tell people to not come to Japan to work unless x/y/z because x/y/z/ are quite honestly usually the only way they can come anyway.

 

[Zoc]

Japan wouldn't be Japan if it had a huge influx of foreigners that brought their own ways and culture into the country. It's one thing I really picked up on when I visited for the first time just a couple weeks ago.

When in Japan, do like the Japanese. I think Japanese are scared that social harmony will be lost.

Click to shrink...

This this such bullshit. Other countries accept foreigners and don't lose their essence. I was just in Venice, and one of the best old-style restaurants was run by a gregarious Chinese dude.

Japan is no different. All the old ways are dying and young people don't care (as ever). Let foreign people in to become the next generation of tea masters and kabuki actors, and those things might actually become relevant again.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

This this such bullshit. Other countries accept foreigners and don't lose their essence. I was just in Venice, and one of the best old-style restaurants was run by a gregarious Chinese dude.

Japan is no different. All the old ways are dying and young people don't care (as ever). Let foreign people in to become the next generation of tea masters and kabuki actors, and those things might actually become relevant again.

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Exactly this. Unless the dude is talking some racist nonsense about ethnic purity or something, it's extremely unlikely that immigrants will dramatically change the country, especially in the long term. Any kids of the immigrants would almost certainly become more culturally Japanese than whatever their parents' culture happened to be.

 

[hashtagrekt]

Don't disagree with more immigration but definitely disagree with you guys thinking foreigners will succeed Japanese culture. I'd rather not go into that topic too much though as none of us are Japanese.

 

[Deleted member 24097]

Okinawa?

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There's a huge difference in wages between Tokyo and Okinawa though. Okinawa being much lower, of course.

 

[Jtendo '82]

This this such bullshit. Other countries accept foreigners and don't lose their essence. I was just in Venice, and one of the best old-style restaurants was run by a gregarious Chinese dude.

Japan is no different. All the old ways are dying and young people don't care (as ever). Let foreign people in to become the next generation of tea masters and kabuki actors, and those things might actually become relevant again.

Click to shrink...

I'm taking my position from the perspective of an American. If people go to Venice and Japan and try to assimilate to their ways and culture that's a huge difference from where I am. There really is no "American Way", we don't even have an official language. How could we get people in the states to be mindful and courteous, on a social level, when everyone just does whatever their own thing is?

When I got sick in Japan I wore a face mask when I was out in public. I didn't litter. I was polite to everyone. I came back home to JFK/NYC, the boiling pot, and it was a fucking disaster.

 

[KillLaCam]

I'm still confused because I know way more westerners working in Japan than I do in Singapore. Unless the most of the ones in Japan are English teachers

 

[MajorBritten]

5 million a year. I'm firmly in the middle-aged crowd.

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What kind of school are you working for if you don't mind me asking?

For me I have been out here for 3 years so far and I simply hate working here. But I think that's down to working for an English conversation school. If you can't speak Japanese then the only jobs you will get are teaching, bar staff or being a hostess (if you're attractive). The companies I have worked for are all fucking ruthless and care only about money and don't give a shit about their employees. My current employer pays ¥270,000 a month which isn't too bad, however you have to work anti-social hours (weekday evenings 1pm-9:30pm and weekends 10am-6pm), they refuse to pay health insurance and pension (which they must by law) and there are no yearly bonuses or any incentives for staying long-term for the company. Call in sick or late just once and $200 is taken from your salary plus you have to write apology letters to the students affected. One guy I know has been working here for 13 years and his salary hasn't increased in about 10 of those years. Most people burn out and go back to their own countries within 2 years. For me that's not an option as I'm married, have a house and 2 weeks ago became a dad. I'm looking for other jobs but because of the language barrier there's not much on offer.

Working here sucks, but living here is great. Cost of living is dirt cheap compared to England, it's one of the safest countries in the world, food is amazing and there is no shortage of things to see and do. For me the good points outweigh the bad and although I hate working as an English teacher here, it's still better than the alternative of going back to England.

 

[Septimus Prime]

There's a huge difference in wages between Tokyo and Okinawa though. Okinawa being much lower, of course.

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I heard minimum wage in Osaka is still like $6/hour.

 

[dicetrain]

It's hard for the old-timers to keep up with new trends.

 

[mujun]

What kind of school are you working for if you don't mind me asking?

For me I have been out here for 3 years so far and I simply hate working here. But I think that's down to working for an English conversation school. If you can't speak Japanese then the only jobs you will get are teaching, bar staff or being a hostess (if you're attractive). The companies I have worked for are all fucking ruthless and care only about money and don't give a shit about their employees. My current employer pays ¥270,000 a month which isn't too bad, however you have to work anti-social hours (weekday evenings 1pm-9:30pm and weekends 10am-6pm), they refuse to pay health insurance and pension (which they must by law) and there are no yearly bonuses or any incentives for staying long-term for the company. Call in sick or late just once and $200 is taken from your salary plus you have to write apology letters to the students affected. One guy I know has been working here for 13 years and his salary hasn't increased in about 10 of those years. Most people burn out and go back to their own countries within 2 years. For me that's not an option as I'm married, have a house and 2 weeks ago became a dad. I'm looking for other jobs but because of the language barrier there's not much on offer.

Working here sucks, but living here is great. Cost of living is dirt cheap compared to England, it's one of the safest countries in the world, food is amazing and there is no shortage of things to see and do. For me the good points outweigh the bad and although I hate working as an English teacher here, it's still better than the alternative of going back to England.

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Private high school.

I worked at Nova for 5 years and it was okay. Not something I'd do long term.

 

[thetrin]

Bonus: this also applies to Japanese companies in other countries.

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Haha that does not surprise me at all.

 

[sibarraz]

Japan is the only country in the world where I would really love to live and at the same time be thankful that Im far away from it

 

[texhnolyze]

I'm not sure why would anyone rate Indonesia that high. Sure, foreigners especially Caucasians are highly respected here, but our work culture is basically "Oh, you're late? It's okay, I'm late too hahaha! Now let's greet our boss.. oh, he's not here yet hahahahaha!!"

 

[klonere]

I'm taking my position from the perspective of an American. If people go to Venice and Japan and try to assimilate to their ways and culture that's a huge difference from where I am. There really is no "American Way", we don't even have an official language. How could we get people in the states to be mindful and courteous, on a social level, when everyone just does whatever their own thing is?

When I got sick in Japan I wore a face mask when I was out in public. I didn't litter. I was polite to everyone. I came back home to JFK/NYC, the boiling pot, and it was a fucking disaster.

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Ireland has gone from being very insular, forcibly isolated and generally unattractive location for anybody not born here to come. Immigration is written into our culture. Yet, when we found our way and the country started doing well in the 90s and 00s, we saw a great influx of immigrants into the country for the first time in centuries (and the last time we experienced mass immigration....uh it didn't go well).

But is the country any less Irish? We have changed, become more diverse, more accepting. But we are still Irish. We have our language, our customs, our way of life. There is no existential threat to our indigenous culture.

"just does whatever their own thing is" - that is quintessentially American, at least to me.

 

[Copper]

Japan is ahead of the curve and watching it now is like peering at the future. The freefall population may be an economical disaster but is also a necessary development if we want the world to be sustainable in the long term, especially for the poorest who would suffer the most from an overinflated carbon budget of the rich countries. If they can solve it, it means there's still hope for our future generations.

 

[Spork4000]

5 million a year. I'm firmly in the middle-aged crowd.

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I assume this is in Yen? Yeah, that's far from worth it IMO, plus I've heard some iffy things about letting black peoples teach...or really do anything at all there.

 

[Cor]

There's a huge difference in wages between Tokyo and Okinawa though. Okinawa being much lower, of course.

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isn't there also a massive difference in cost of living?