Japanese cities worried about taking in more foreign workers, survey finds

Oct 31, 2017
730
Austria
#51
I guess it's not your place to judge some EU countries for not accepting massive waves of immigrants from the ME as well. Good to know.
I am from the EU, so it actually is. :)

This is such bullshit. It’s white supremacism with the colours changed.

Culture had nothing to do with the colour of your skin. If immigrants want to come to Japan and take up traditional Japanese culture, it can only be a benefit.
True. But this can be very hard to accomplish. As an immigrant myself I can tell you that many immigrants have issues assimilating to a culture that is different than their own - and I'm talking about differences that aren't even that big. Japanese culture to most other cultures is like day and night.
 
Oct 31, 2017
730
Austria
#54
EU is not a country and there is such diversity of cultures inside the EU that it rivals Japan, if not supercedes it.
Nah, not really. Biggest differences in culture are caused by religion. Most EU countries are built on Christianity. So while there are differences here and there, the foundation is the same everywhere.

This is a case of supremacism/overt nationalism. Simple.
This can only come from someone who has never seen the bad sides caused by immigration.
 
Oct 31, 2017
730
Austria
#56
What are they? Assuming they are skilled workers, what are the downsides? That it might not be pure Japanese culture anymore?
When you have certain cultural customs (and Japan seems to have loads of unique ones) and then have foreigners come in who do not share or respect them you cause unrest. Simple as that.

I'm not against immigration per se. It would all be fine and dandy if people immigrating into another country would just adapt the new countries customs. Thing is, most people don't because they are probably just as proud about their own culture like Japan is of theirs. So you have two customs clashing. Even in Europe where, as said, everyone has the same foundation this often causes friction. In Japan it's the same, only multiplied by 10. I'm puzzled as to how people do not at least acknowledge this.
 
Dec 4, 2018
725
#57
I am from the EU, so it actually is. :)


True. But this can be very hard to accomplish. As an immigrant myself I can tell you that many immigrants have issues assimilating to a culture that is different than their own - and I'm talking about differences that aren't even that big. Japanese culture to most other cultures is like day and night.
Many immigrants and people of foreign descent in our country integrated perfectly. But there are assholes you can't see through that and accept that you can be black and just be as italian as much or more than most of the fascists here living with their head up their ass, who forgot they're still alive because we wanted to forgive them.

In fact, most young europeans have been migrants, have migrated, have migrants in their families or have friends from many different cultures, and older europeans certainly didn't forget poverty or having to migrate from the poorer regions abroad or in their own country.

So... Are you actually from the EU?
 
Last edited:
Feb 13, 2018
1,359
Japan
#58
I think it can be perfectly reasonable to be worried about an influx or workers that you’re most likely not equipped to communicate with or your company might not have a means to accommodate. I don’t think anyone’s gonna say Japan doesn’t have a xenophobia problem but I think in regards to this law there are valid concerns that aren’t just “they’re icky foreigners.”
 
#59
3. Be That Guy. I once met a US expat, former marine, swole, 6 foot 2, fluent Japanese speaker with a perfect (allegedly - I can't tell) Hokkaido accent and a full understanding of the entire thing from top to bottom. He embraced the fact that he'd encounter racist Japanese folk, that the culture is rigid, that traditions and habits will negatively impact him and his ability to succeed or fit in. So he didn't try to fit in. He never put up with it - and would simply reply in perfect Japanese that "he wasn't going to put up with racist shit and you should say that again to his face and see what happens" - I saw that twice in one week - once at a restaurant where a Japanese waiter said something mildly jingoistic and snide to another server and once when the owner of a bar tried to screw our group on the final negotiated check (actually pretty normal to dicker over the bill at those small Izakayas) based on the fact that there were AMERICANS in the group and that had been a hassle. In both cases it was enough of a scene that I was embarassed/confused about what was going on, but I could tell in both cases that they were shocked or scared into immediate apology. Anyway, that's how he rolled. His Japanese colleagues thought he was a HOOT and loved seeing him do it, to the point I think they were encouraging him. I can't say he seemed happy, but he sure was confident. I wonder what happened to him.
All I see in my head is this huge marine going full on Nani the fuck did you just iimasu about watashi copypasta on these guys, heh.
 
Oct 31, 2017
730
Austria
#62
Many immigrants and people of foreign descent in our country integrated perfectly. But there are assholes you can't see through that and accept that you can be black and just be as italian as much or more than most of the fascists here living with their head up their ass, who forgot they're still alive because we wanted to forgive them.

In fact, most young europeans have been migrants, have migrated, have migrants in their families or have friends from many different cultures, and older europeans certainly didn't forget poverty or having to migrate from the poorer regions abroad or in their own country.

So... Are you actually from the EU?
Yes, I'm from Austria. Yes, I'm an immigrant myself (born in Croatia). No, I do not share your views because I've seen far more people reluctant to integrate properly than those who do.
 
Oct 29, 2017
482
Japan
#65
Also having no one being able to speak the languages of the people coming in is a big issue. To get anything done here you have to go to city hall and most of the time they never have anyone there to help.

I know some prefectures have some people but they are only there for a set day during a set time. They’ve been asking for more help and for the government to throw them some money but they won’t and they have no intention of increasing the number of these foreign speakers when this law comes into effect.

Abe and his crew only put this through to get cheap labour in that can be exploited. Having more foreigners here is a good thing but the current government doesn’t want to help them in any way.
 
Dec 4, 2018
725
#68
I'm a nationalist because.... I respect a country to make their own decisions about immigration? Is this a joke?
Uh?

Criticizing something isn't "disrespecting" anything. Only a nationalist would accept laws as they are. We're not plotting to illegally immigrate into Japan and force ourselves there, we're pointing out and discussing issues. Why do you want us to be silent?
 
Oct 31, 2017
730
Austria
#69
Uh?

Criticizing something isn't "disrespecting" anything. Only a nationalist would accept laws as they are. We're not plotting to illegally immigrate into Japan and force ourselves there, we're pointing out and discussing issues. Why do you want us to be silent?
Counter question: Why do you want to meddle in affairs that do not concern you? Your not Japanese and I'm not either. What gives us the right to evaluate what's good for their country?

At least I'm trying to see things from their perspective. It's their culture and they want to preserve it. Fine with me. I get and I respect it. And I do not understand why such nationalism is supposed to be bad or anything. As long as they not just want to preserve their culture but also spread it with force (like Germany did for instance) I have no issues whatsoever with it.
 
Jan 22, 2019
7
#72
Counter question: Why do you want to meddle in affairs that do not concern you? Your not Japanese and I'm not either. What gives us the right to evaluate what's good for their country?

At least I'm trying to see things from their perspective. It's their culture and they want to preserve it. Fine with me. I get and I respect it. And I do not understand why such nationalism is supposed to be bad or anything. As long as they not just want to preserve their culture but also spread it with force (like Germany did for instance) I have no issues whatsoever with it.

It's exactly this kind of thinking that made Japan into the mess it is today. First off, it is impossible to define 'Japanese culture' because a culture is not an ever changing, static thing. It evolves and changes constantly. Japan has had immigrants for hundreds of years, but they have never fully accepted the implication of it. Foreigners have always been second class citizens, even though racism isn't as blatant as it is in other countries, it is very much rampant. (believe me, I know, I live in Tokyo). Many of them though, believe in a fixed idea of how the 'Japanese mind' works. The whole idea of Japan being this unique country, impossible to understand as an outsider, stems from this.
But this is nothing more then a myth.
All of this has led to it being a country that now, in the face of widespread globalism, can not compete with the rest of the world and doesn't know how to accomodate to foreigners.

Looking at Abes' plans, I can safely say it will probably fail, because they want educated foreigners. Somebody with a good degree though, can work everywhere he or she wants, instead of Japan, where you will never fully accepted and will have to adopt to Japanese work life, which is soul crushing to say the least.
Many people will come but most will leave within a few years, which is what will happen to those they want to keep most of all.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,040
Minneapolis
#73
But Japan, compared to other countries, has a very serious problem with it's demographic.
Right, but that isn’t due to any sort of disrriminatinatory practice or war. Some Japanese have the same xenophobia some white MAGA dudes from Alabama have. Some Japanese simply don’t want people who look different or speak a different language to impact their culture.
 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
414
#74
I just wanted to point out the 99% survey response rate. It must be less than 5% in the US and I always feel for survey telemarketers who have to get absolutely shit on, on a daily basis. Then Japan goes and makes those same people heros.
 
Aug 22, 2018
567
#75
I'm a nationalist because.... I respect a country to make their own decisions about immigration? Is this a joke?
It's part of my country's culture to judge people's actions regardless of nationality. Square that with your self-refuting relativism.

Saying you're forbidden from commenting on something based on your nationality is not only nationalistic but self-evidently stupid. You won't judge the DRC for carrying out female genital mutilation? You won't judge North Korea for its practices of forced starvation and concentration camps?

Does all my knowledge of Japan's plummeting birth rates, aging population, sexless marriages, aggressive anti-childcare and maternity policies, unaddressed xenophobia, and practically non-existent immigration suddenly become invalid because of what's written under country of origin on my passport? Can't wait to tell all those professors of sociology that the field that they're experts in is wrong because they chose to study something other than the country they were born in.
 
Dec 4, 2018
725
#76
Counter question: Why do you want to meddle in affairs that do not concern you? Your not Japanese and I'm not either. What gives us the right to evaluate what's good for their country?

At least I'm trying to see things from their perspective. It's their culture and they want to preserve it. Fine with me. I get and I respect it. And I do not understand why such nationalism is supposed to be bad or anything. As long as they not just want to preserve their culture but also spread it with force (like Germany did for instance) I have no issues whatsoever with it.
The fact that you believe a law shouldn't be discussed and a society be criticized is the reason why you don't understand why nationalism is bad: blind allegiance to a nation is the root of the worst genocides of the recent centuries!

"Protecting their purity" is the literal reason fascist laws and racial discrimination have been invented!
 
Oct 31, 2017
730
Austria
#78
It's exactly this kind of thinking that made Japan into the mess it is today. First off, it is impossible to define 'Japanese culture' because a culture is not an ever changing, static thing. It evolves and changes constantly. Japan has had immigrants for hundreds of years, but they have never fully accepted the implication of it. Foreigners have always been second class citizens, even though racism isn't as blatant as it is in other countries, it is very much rampant. (believe me, I know, I live in Tokyo). Many of them though, believe in a fixed idea of how the 'Japanese mind' works. The whole idea of Japan being this unique country, impossible to understand as an outsider, stems from this.
But this is nothing more then a myth.
All of this has led to it being a country that now, in the face of widespread globalism, can not compete with the rest of the world and doesn't know how to accomodate to foreigners.

Looking at Abes' plans, I can safely say it will probably fail, because they want educated foreigners. Somebody with a good degree though, can work everywhere he or she wants, instead of Japan, where you will never fully accepted and will have to adopt to Japanese work life, which is soul crushing to say the least.
Many people will come but most will leave within a few years, which is what will happen to those they want to keep most of all.
Fair enough. But wouldn't in that case the better solution be to ease up the work conditions and/or encourage people to get more children instead of, you know, keeping the broken system and getting in more immigrants?

And what the treatment of foreigners is concerned I cannot relate but if I've learned anything in my life it's that if you treat people and their values with respect most (mind you, not all) will treat you well in return eventually. I would never go there and expect anything from anyone. I'm going there so it's my place to prove myself.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,727
#79
When you have certain cultural customs (and Japan seems to have loads of unique ones) and then have foreigners come in who do not share or respect them you cause unrest. Simple as that.
Which specific aspects of Japanese culture would be endangered by some more foreigners immigrating? I want specifics.
 
Oct 27, 2017
870
#81
I always wondered if Japan is so Xenophobic, why do they make all their anime charecters look more european/American in nature? I rarely see a lead anime character look like a typical Japanese man or woman.
I think it's because the "anime" style was heavily influenced by Disney and it's just a side effect from that. IMO they don't really appear to exhibit traits from any specific race generally speaking outside of the hair which is generally Japanese in style. But there are times they draw a Westerner or an Asian character in contrast with the rest of the show and they look more like a racist caricature and are in an almost completely different style.
 
Oct 28, 2017
369
#82
Many rather whither in "purity" than survive with more immigrants.

The obsession with purity will be their undoing
I don't really see how Japanese won't survive anymore if they don't take in more immigrants. Populations just decreases leading for more resources per person which just improves quality of life..
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,608
Montreal
#83
I don't really see how Japanese won't survive anymore if they don't take in more immigrants. Populations just decreases leading for more resources per person which just improves quality of life..
youth population is in the decline while the proportion of elderly increases.

Quality of life will be harder when there is a shortage of young people to pay taxes to take care for the increasingly aging population needs
 
Jan 22, 2019
7
#84
Fair enough. But wouldn't in that case the better solution be to ease up the work conditions and/or encourage people to get more children instead of, you know, keeping the broken system and getting in more immigrants?

And what the treatment of foreigners is concerned I cannot relate but if I've learned anything in my life it's that if you treat people and their values with respect most (mind you, not all) will treat you well in return eventually. I would never go there and expect anything from anyone. I'm going there so it's my place to prove myself.
Yes, addressing the working conditions is a good idea but it would mean Abe loses support from the upper-class, so he'll never do it. Also, they do encourage more kids, but again, situation has to change if they want that. As it is now, many just don't have time for a wife or husband, let alone a child.

Also, you can expect on common courtesy and not being treated as shit or being discriminated upon, if you behave with courtesy yourself. I here a lot of foreigners here say: "Don't be that foreigner, or you will give the other foreigners a bad name" is something I hear a lot here in Japan.
In any other country this is a racist talking point, but apparantly not here... Don't be a 'good foreigner' be a good person.
 
Nov 22, 2017
79
Yokohama
#85
An influx of 350,000 blue-collar foreigners over the next five years will make for an interesting social experiment that, hopefully, will fare better than the influx of Brazilians/Iranians in the 80s. The pessimistic attitude some are taking is valid, though -- the infrastructure, both "hard" (actual government support systems) and "soft" (general attitudes among the Japanese populace), just isn't in place yet. Whatever though; it's clear that the government has no real answer to maintaining the labor population here. Some growing pains are needed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,272
#86
Didn't Japan offer visas to blue collar workers before as part of dekasegi? they later offered them money to go back to their countries when the crisis hit a few years ago tho
 
Oct 25, 2017
813
#87
I don't really see how Japanese won't survive anymore if they don't take in more immigrants. Populations just decreases leading for more resources per person which just improves quality of life..
Imagine industry workers with 70% force to be grandma because you have no choice and 30% people that can really take the labour.

They are now and will be less and less and less and so on both high and low skill workers by this point because...reason.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,062
#88
An influx of 350,000 blue-collar foreigners over the next five years will make for an interesting social experiment that, hopefully, will fare better than the influx of Brazilians/Iranians in the 80s. The pessimistic attitude some are taking is valid, though -- the infrastructure, both "hard" (actual government support systems) and "soft" (general attitudes among the Japanese populace), just isn't in place yet. Whatever though; it's clear that the government has no real answer to maintaining the labor population here. Some growing pains are needed.
I am not optimistic. Japan themselves asked those immigrants to leave once the economic crash in 2008 hit. And this included immigrants of Japanese descent that they had explicitly wooed previously with the enticement of moving back to their 'home country'.