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Japanese devs' obsession with child/child-like characters trope and how problematic it is
- Thread starter Kaivan
- Start date
Star Ocean The Last Hope has the worst fucking cast, I swear.
I'll go OT for now.
Here's one of the worst things I've ever seen in a game.
The child is "15" (for reasons, she ages very slow and ....looks like a toddler). She literally acts like a young girl while the game tries to sell her 'crush' with the green haired one (they even accidentally kiss).
Same game:
Meracle is a 16 year old cat girl. She's cute, dumb, and she licks people (cuz cat) and lacks any clothing down the middle of her ensemble (but at least literally everything else is covered!).
I'll go OT for now.
Here's one of the worst things I've ever seen in a game.
The child is "15" (for reasons, she ages very slow and ....looks like a toddler). She literally acts like a young girl while the game tries to sell her 'crush' with the green haired one (they even accidentally kiss).
Same game:
Meracle is a 16 year old cat girl. She's cute, dumb, and she licks people (cuz cat) and lacks any clothing down the middle of her ensemble (but at least literally everything else is covered!).
God I haaaate the female designs in Etrian Odyssey. The boys get so much more variety in how they look.
Man, this shit is in anime a lot as well and it's weird lol. I don't find Persona particularly problematic but then again, that's the only JRPG other than FF I've played.
I don't remember Veronica being sexualised in any way in DQ11. The problem with putting her up there with the rest will make people think she is since people don't read the whole OP most of the time. But yeah overall it's extremely annoying.
She wasn't (and it's in the OP)
When she was revealed, I was like "Noooooo, not a stupid Loli in my DQ !!!!" but in the end she is a great character who avoids all the traps attached to the Loli thing.
I see your point but I think teenagers kind of covers that plenty, when you dip down in the 8-10 age it just ends up being ass, even if they're not portrayed in a sexual way. Either they're mature in their personality which doesn't make sense or they act their age and then it's like, what are you even doing here? Just my opinion though, I've yet to encounter a child in a jrpg that's above mediocre, most of them being downright awful.
Have you played FFIX? Vivi is one of the best characters in the whole genre. Eiko is pretty good too.
Same game:
Meracle is a 16 year old cat girl. She's cute, dumb, and she licks people (cuz cat) and lacks any clothing down the middle of her ensemble (but at least literally everything else is covered!).
Isnt one of the personal actions her sneaking into brunos bed and when he wakes up he has his hand on her tit?
When I played the OG 360 version I was just like whatev.....replayed the remaster and was so embarassed I let that shit slide when I was a kid.
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Shes 15 and wears next to nothing and has a belt sized skirt.
Also MHA has one of the most perverted characters in mainstream anime currently running.
I've visited Japan a few times and I get NHK where I live and I have a few thoughts
1. I have been uncomfortable in Japan a few times. Even opening Famitsu I sometimes see renders from games that I'm not sure would be legal as images in the U.K. (where I'm from). I have also been shocked that reputable stores in Japan have floors devoted to fan service stuff that makes me really uncomfortable. Some of the posters, too, are icky.
2. I believe gaming (excluding Nintendo for some reason) and anime (excepting a few breakout franchises) has become increasingly niche and insular. Just look at declining software sales. The latest FF struggled to pass a million. I believe a lot of Japanese players find this stuff icky and have been increasingly turned off by it, and turned their back on games. Japanese publishers need to avoid 'fan service' for their own survival.
3. You could write a library of books about Japan's increasingly low birthrate and how a work culture has destroyed traditional relationships and led to electronic replacements.
Obviously everything I have said is massively generalised.
I really hope they sort it out. It's not ok, and I dread to think of the PR nightmare of the tabloid front pages when they find out there's underage girl groping games on the eShop.
1. I have been uncomfortable in Japan a few times. Even opening Famitsu I sometimes see renders from games that I'm not sure would be legal as images in the U.K. (where I'm from). I have also been shocked that reputable stores in Japan have floors devoted to fan service stuff that makes me really uncomfortable. Some of the posters, too, are icky.
2. I believe gaming (excluding Nintendo for some reason) and anime (excepting a few breakout franchises) has become increasingly niche and insular. Just look at declining software sales. The latest FF struggled to pass a million. I believe a lot of Japanese players find this stuff icky and have been increasingly turned off by it, and turned their back on games. Japanese publishers need to avoid 'fan service' for their own survival.
3. You could write a library of books about Japan's increasingly low birthrate and how a work culture has destroyed traditional relationships and led to electronic replacements.
Obviously everything I have said is massively generalised.
I really hope they sort it out. It's not ok, and I dread to think of the PR nightmare of the tabloid front pages when they find out there's underage girl groping games on the eShop.
Most countries have an age of consent under 18, that doesn't mean you can portray minors in a sexual way.
Child beauty pageants are definitely problematic in the US, but they aren't a large cultural phenomenon.
There's just something like 250k child pageant contestants a year - insignificant when compared to the types of activities the average family parents put their kids in.
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Still a lot more disturbing than some sexualized fictional chars
problematic is like this forums favorite word and honestly i dont think its enough for this, this stuff is down right disturbing
im glad public places like twitter are cracking down on the "lolis"
lol
im glad public places like twitter are cracking down on the "lolis"
lol
I've never been to Japan but it always seems like this is common stuff over there. Makes me wonder what kind of political movements they have there and what arguments there are for and against this kind of obscene culture.
Anyone know of any documentary on this topic perhaps?
Anyone know of any documentary on this topic perhaps?
If the mere existence of sexualized fictional characters was the extent of the problem... maybe you'd have a point. But right now we just have a false equivalency and a weak "whataboutism" attempt.
In a discussion about problematic norms, I don't see where American Child Beauty pageants fit in. That's not considered normal here.
I don't think it's that common. It's very ghettoised. If you go to some places in Tokyo, you'll see it. But I didn't see any of it in Kyoto.
A lot of the trashy games and anime/manga that have this kind of stuff are very niche in society at large, but as was mentioned earlier a lot of this is also the result of creators increasingly doubling down on that niche to increasingly trashy results.
But in the larger scope it's part of a general issue involving the fetishization of youth, particularly in women, which has also manifested in things like the idol industry, the old derogatory term "Christmas cake" for unmarried women over 25, or the practice of older men paying younger women or adolescent girls to date them.
This shit is messed up.
I remember when the whole "moe" boom happened and the creepers came out full force. The first time me and my girlfriend went to comic con there was tons of Merch of this shit out in the open like they were proud of it and I felt sick, embarrassed and wanted to leave.
Its like when the author of Rorouni Kenshin got off with a slap on the wrist. It needs cracking down on, it's really fucked up.
A lot of anime has the potential to be respectful and masterful, but stuff like this just drags down it's reputation into a cesspit.
I remember when the whole "moe" boom happened and the creepers came out full force. The first time me and my girlfriend went to comic con there was tons of Merch of this shit out in the open like they were proud of it and I felt sick, embarrassed and wanted to leave.
Its like when the author of Rorouni Kenshin got off with a slap on the wrist. It needs cracking down on, it's really fucked up.
A lot of anime has the potential to be respectful and masterful, but stuff like this just drags down it's reputation into a cesspit.
User banned (1 Month): dismissing concerns around content including sexualised minors, whataboutery
I'd say that's very relevant exactly because one is fiction and the other is reality. Now if the fiction had led to that reality, that would be an actual issue but I'd still lay that problem at the feet of the people who let fiction guide their reality.
So I guess the question then is rather, what kind of real life consequences are there of these characters mentioned in the opening that would constitute a problem? Are girls trying to conform with this image? (aside from 'non-norm' comic-cons I guess) Are guys who regularly watch this getting excited when they see a little girl walk by irl? Is that the concern?
That clip is disturbing. It feels like some weird coded language is being used.
Anime has always been niche, but the outpour of fanservice and moe shows hasn't turn off any grand quantity of fans. If anything anime is the biggest it ever has continuing the upward trend of the last couple of years.
As for console game sales, that has more to do with mobile gaming cemented its spot, and becoming a million dollar business in Japan. Casuals moved over to there as it is typically less time consuming, while being a small package of the real thing. Also the waifu and husbando market has moved over to there, with most otaku franchises having their own gacha game.
https://www.serkantoto.com/2016/08/17/japans-mobile-game-market-size/
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Is there any reason to believe this (beyond wishful thinking)? I mean, if we assume offer matches demand, current anime production would suggest the exact opposite.
This is creepy as fuck, who the hell is shameless enough to sit and play a game like this? It is gross.
lol, I literally remember seeing complaints like yours 10 years ago. The moe explosion is not recent by any means. If anything, I think that trend has (thankfully) slowly been winding down lately
Games like Fire Emblem is also guilty of this. If you've played Fire Emblem Awakening, you'd know which character I'm talking about.
Indeed, that is the precise number, but they could've easily gotten away with 1020s while they were being cheeky.1018.
Your fortune teller and a journalist as well.
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I can see it, as neither battle harems and CGDCT are as dominating as it was in the mid two thousand to early tens. Plus, the fujoshi has shown that they are a new market with money to spend and because of it we have seen a tidal wave of shows targeted to them. Shows like Gin Tama, Jojo, Osumatsu-Bros, Tiger and Bunny, and many sports anime wouldn't have happen without them.
The "fiction vs reality" component doesn't make the comparison anymore relevant. The perverce nature of many Japanese characterizations has nothing to do with the existence of Child Beauty Pagents in the US.
The OP is questioning tendency of Japanese developers to use sexualized depictions of children for the purpose of titilating their audience and general cultural acceptance of this type of product.
I strongly doubt the fiction leads to the reality- rather a disturbing, pre-existing reality has lead to this type of fiction becoming accepted as normal.
Child beauty pageants do exist, and they are extremely problematic, but they aren't normal. In fact, it's pretty tough to find mainstream depictions that aren't critical of the practice and the personalities behind it.
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We have nearly 2 decades of weekly and yearly sales data for the video game market in Japan.
This website has compiled Famitsu data from 1995 to today : https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/
Similar data probably exist for anime and manga.
Huh, I had no idea burly Jojos had such a significant female audience.
Stacey Dooley did a great documentary on Joshi Kosei
Link here to the related article.
Not sure if it is available on the BBC iplayer currently though.
They always had since the manga started running in Shonen Jump, and they show it by being committed in their fan voting. It is the reason why it lasted so long, but also why it almost ended, as Stone Ocean pushed away fujos with its female cast. The lasting popularity still holds today with characters ranking high in female fans popularity polls:
Star Ocean The Last Hope has the worst fucking cast, I swear.
I'll go OT for now.
Here's one of the worst things I've ever seen in a game.
The child is "15" (for reasons, she ages very slow and ....looks like a toddler). She literally acts like a young girl while the game tries to sell her 'crush' with the green haired one (they even accidentally kiss).
Same game:
Meracle is a 16 year old cat girl. She's cute, dumb, and she licks people (cuz cat) and lacks any clothing down the middle of her ensemble (but at least literally everything else is covered!).
It's definitely at the top of my list for worst cast ever. I truly hope I never see the day to see something else top it.
I still remember playing it and being in utter disbelief when watching the Lymle/Faize rubbish.
As a bi man I can confirm the Jojo's are hot. They're so stylish.
By that logic, John Green books a pedophelic porn.
As a hetero man, I can confirm, Jojo's are hot.
The questionable instances of this seem almost impossible to truly crack down, without either a complete ban or some theoretical thought policing. This due to the plausible deniability issue of it, as long as it's fiction. There's going to be people attracted to the fictional version of something and not the real world alternative (and vice versa). But there are parts of the world where both get deemed illegal.
About having child characters in general, the idea that they can't be done well at all is ridiculous, as explained multiple times in here already.
About having child characters in general, the idea that they can't be done well at all is ridiculous, as explained multiple times in here already.
I'm a Star Ocean fan so I sat down to play it and can confirm I hated Lymle and every scene she was in too. Based on everyone I talked to who played it, they did too.
It's a real shame because remove Lymle and the weird cat girl, Star Ocean The Last Hope is a really solid action-RPG with a goofy dumb plot that's worth watching for how bonkers it is.
When it comes to wish fulfillment in Persona, I think the closest it comes to is fulfilling, is the wish everyone had to be popular in school. Especially when, not trying to generalize, but a lot of people who play video games especially in Japan probably weren't that person. It's no different than an adult author writing a popular charismatic high school student as the main character.
It's so bizarre to me seeing people trying to present Persona as a vehicle for pedos to fulfill their fantasies of dating teenage girls.
The only thing creepier than the overt fetishization and sexualization of underage women in this media is that there is a popular demand for it and the lengths those will go to defend it.
It's absurd, at this rate, any teenage story in media is just a window for pedos to fulfill their wishes. Isn't there a Netflix show about Sex Ed in Highschool or so? I'm am totally behind the idea that way to many children are sexualized in media world wide and it needs to stop now, but context matters. Or is the love story between L and the main character from Stranger Things a portal to the pedophelic realm?
And that's the last thing I say, thinking about this topic makes me feel nauseous.