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Japanese devs' obsession with child/child-like characters trope and how problematic it is
- Thread starter Kaivan
- Start date
You're asking if there is any reason to believe Japanese aren't buying fan-service games, sale numbers are available, you can check by yourself.
Basically my stance on the matter. Sexualization of minors is annoying, disturbing, and just plain gross. But there's nothing inherently wrong with having young characters, as long as it's not a pretense to molest them.
KONAMI
...
It's like im staring at a banner for a flash game that uses bootleg characters from Card Captor Sakura.
I haven't played it but regional comparisons are always interesting. Anyway, the original voice direction for her is very different.
Jesus Christ. I'm more horrified by the dub than anything else. Thanks for reminding me this travesty existed.
I
What the fuck, seriously.
Star Ocean The Last Hope has the worst fucking cast, I swear.
I'll go OT for now.
Here's one of the worst things I've ever seen in a game.
The child is "15" (for reasons, she ages very slow and ....looks like a toddler). She literally acts like a young girl while the game tries to sell her 'crush' with the green haired one (they even accidentally kiss).
Same game:
Meracle is a 16 year old cat girl. She's cute, dumb, and she licks people (cuz cat) and lacks any clothing down the middle of her ensemble (but at least literally everything else is covered!).
What the fuck, seriously.
I'd take it over having some ugly as hell "sexy elves" in my game. Having child characters in a game isn't bad.
Marie Rose is disgusting. She is wearing slave gear. She makes every storybit look like you are watching a BDSM scene staring a child. The first story mode scene where Helena just walks up, ass out, and starts talking to this little girl is so creepy and terrible. It sucks because DOA 6 has really improved in most other areas.
That's like seeing "citation needed" on a Wikipedia page and fixing it by adding a link to google search as a footnote. If you can't be arsed to make an actual case for Japanese gamers buying less fanservice games, that's fine, but linking the index of a sales site for others to search, compare and gather the proof to support your own point is far beyond moronic.
Anime has always been niche, but the outpour of fanservice and moe shows hasn't turn off any grand quantity of fans. If anything anime is the biggest it ever has continuing the upward trend of the last couple of years.
As for console game sales, that has more to do with mobile gaming cemented its spot, and becoming a million dollar business in Japan. Casuals moved over to there as it is typically less time consuming, while being a small package of the real thing. Also the waifu and husbando market has moved over to there, with most otaku franchises having their own gacha game.
https://www.serkantoto.com/2016/08/17/japans-mobile-game-market-size/
I'm not sure this shows anime being more popular. Just that it's got better at extracting money from it's got a lot better at extracting money from its viewers.
This is kinda of what I'm saying. Instead of getting more people to watch, they've been trying to make sure each viewer contributes more yen with merch, soundtracks, figurines etc.
Also there's been some expansion overseas.
Tangentially, but man do I hate non-zero-centered charts. It's so manipulative; at a glance it looks like tenfold growth since 2002, when in reality it hasn't even doubled. It's especially egregious with bar charts; the are of the bar should be proportional to the amount, goddamnit. :P
Account for average industry growth AND inflation on top of that, and the chart tells a far less impressive story than a cursory glance would suggest.
Dood, that type of growth isn't possible nowadays when relying on just Japanese otaku, especially with DVD sales stagnatinga long time ago, and a part of it was because overseas markets. It is the reason why anime are now leaning towards more to merchandise sells. The above chart just shows how much streaming and other license contracts has have an impact these past couple of years.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ne...s-continued-growth-in-overseas-market/.130302
They always had since the manga started running in Shonen Jump, and they show it by being committed in their fan voting. It is the reason why it lasted so long, but also why it almost ended, as Stone Ocean pushed away fujos with its female cast. The lasting popularity still holds today with characters ranking high in female fans popularity polls:
Not Surprise why Lala is No.2
Toei try so hard lately.
First android now alien.
I had the same thought when I first read the topic. Then I remembered blade form and decided it wasn't worth it.
Honestly, I'm curious what time people are comparing to when saying that anime is now more niche than ever. The only time I can think is when Japan was in an economic high in the 80s to early 90's, but once it burst it hit every market hard, including anime. The early 2000s wasn't kind to anime, and I remember talks about shows like Precure being cancel because there wasn't enough trust in the media to produce a profit.
Here's a question: At what point do voice actors get some of the blame for enabling this obvious sexualisation of minors?
Because obviously people are just reading a script and they aren't responsible for the content... but surely there's only so many times a voice actress can say some variant of "Please be gentle big brother, I'm only 11" before that argument hits a wall?
It's shitty, it's creepy, and speaks to an insidious fascination that the market has normalized it so much
I'm sure they just give these things a pass by "joking" around with the content they have to work with. Would also make sense that a lot of the VA that work for these niche titles are fans of said niche titles and possibly enjoy the content they work with, rather than just because they're getting paid. Just a thought though, i wouldn't know for sure.
Anime is increasing its popularity no doubt, you just need to see platforms like Netflix investing more than ever into it (something like 30 upcoming anime shows I recall?) and with shows like One-punch man getting higher view counts than some big live action shows, also there is adaptation movies coming out like Ghost in the Shell, Alita and supposedly Akira. You may not like it but to me its clear that its mainstream compared to 10 years ago but they are definitely some predatory pricing in many anime products.
In what way was Nia form Xenoblade 2 child like??
Based on how she talks down to Rex all the time and calls him a child I thought she was older than him, and he's not exactly a little kid either.
Based on how she talks down to Rex all the time and calls him a child I thought she was older than him, and he's not exactly a little kid either.
Her VA does a good job making the character appear adult. Rex is an all around awful character and based on appearance and personality I can't help but feel he is a 13 years old. I have no idea how old he is supposed to be.
Just to chime in, I happened to find a chart earlier from the Association of Japanese Animations that breaks down those sales a little more comprehensively.
I know it's totally beside the main point, but for those who say that there were no problems with Futaba in Persona 5, I'm assuming you're forgetting about the weird head-pat stuff they did with her?
'Cause that was definitely a thing--late in the social link, Futaba asks Joker to pat her head, just like her mom used to, y'know, when she was a kid, in elementary school.
Going right from her asking to be treated like a kid, and Joker obliging (you have no option to say no or point out how weird that is or anything) to having the option of dating her is very jarring, to say the least. Especially since on top of it all when it happens Futaba's heart starts beating a billion miles per hour, with the implications there not bring subtle (that bring treated like a child by Joker is apparently a turn-on for her).
With weirdness like that in their social link/Confidant relationship, and with Futaba bring treated as both a child and a romantic interest at different points of it, yeah I could definitely understand why someone would say that Joker/Futaba is an example of this.
'Cause that was definitely a thing--late in the social link, Futaba asks Joker to pat her head, just like her mom used to, y'know, when she was a kid, in elementary school.
Going right from her asking to be treated like a kid, and Joker obliging (you have no option to say no or point out how weird that is or anything) to having the option of dating her is very jarring, to say the least. Especially since on top of it all when it happens Futaba's heart starts beating a billion miles per hour, with the implications there not bring subtle (that bring treated like a child by Joker is apparently a turn-on for her).
With weirdness like that in their social link/Confidant relationship, and with Futaba bring treated as both a child and a romantic interest at different points of it, yeah I could definitely understand why someone would say that Joker/Futaba is an example of this.
Dood, that type of growth isn't possible nowadays when relying on just Japanese otaku, especially with DVD sales stagnatinga long time ago, and a part of it was because overseas markets. It is the reason why anime are now leaning towards more to merchandise sells. The above chart just shows how much streaming and other license contracts has have an impact these past couple of years.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ne...s-continued-growth-in-overseas-market/.130302
So this was kinda my point. I pointed to overseas growth being a thing.
What I'm talking about is games and anime in Japan that feature these type of characters becoming increasingly insular. Notice a lot of the stuff that gets adapted (like the atila movie) strip out any possible grossness, and the shows that do well overseas tend to be (there's never a hard rule for these things) the less 'fan servicey' ones.
But if you can't make it big overseas, and you're aiming for the internal Japanese market then many companies have decided to double down on the gross stuff.
It needs to be stamped out, but it needs a few things
1) people to not buy games when they're gross. Fans need to take a stance not to 'look past' the elements that are terrible.
2) the Japanese government should intervene and ban this stuff, and make a clear distinction that characters that could reasonably judged to look underage should not be sexualised (this is different from being in relationships. The film Moonrise Kingdom shows a developing child relationship, but it does not sexualise the children). I don't think that's going to happen, though, for a variety of reasons. I suppose the best we can hope for is for games with these elements to be refused ratings from the ratings board.
3) it doesn't help that Japanese publishers are acting in bad faith here. Trying to tiptoe up to the line and making 1000 year old dragon excuses. It's disgusting.
I'd blame Shonen manga for the root of all this. Ever since making teens (high teens as the maximum age) as main characters of manga and it became popular, it just got stuck. Until late 70's it really wasn't like that, but after 80's and so forth anything don't follow that template just stopped selling, with a few exceptions. Gaming industry just followed what manga industry did.
The problem with this type of thinking is thinking that the U.S market is above the fanservice shows, when it really is not when shows like Sword Art Online, Shield Warrior, and Goblin Slayer are topping streaming sites like Crunchyroll. China and South Korea ain't any better, and they both are the biggest money bringers in streaming.
As for this, I don't really see it happening and you only need to see the U.N fiasco where pretty much everyone disagree on it passing, where while some people hate the sexualization, they don't want to limit the creator's freedom. Even a big feminist movement in Japan was against it.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ollieb...depicting-sexual-violence-is-cogent-and-sane/
My impression is that the Japanese media tries very hard to bring up controversy characters, in the form of unexpected combinations, such as the little girl being an overpowered wizard and such.
The issue is, eventually this thing grows old and it doesn't impress anymore. Nowadays most games especially in the jRPG genre rides on those anime tropes, so that you can immediately feel the archetype behind one character.
This isn't limited to child characters tropes only, there's a whole multitude of different re-used archetypes that honestly make the genre quite boring for my tastes.
The nature of the revealing outfits definitely comes from the anime/otaku culture that monetizes on it. It's a different way of inappropriate clothing than what a western game would do, as they tend to be more colorful and child-like.
Thankfully the industry is so big that there are products made in Japan that avoid falling into those tropes.
Personally, when I was way younger and around the age of the underage characters (this was long ago), they didn't bother me much. Like, I never considered Yuffie from the original FF7 inappropriate (she was even older than me, I think the character was supposed to be 16 years old?), so in that regards I may see how those games are targeted at young teenagers.
As an adult characters like the kid from Star Ocean (pardon my memory, I don't remember the name) were terribly annoying and disturbing.
The issue is, eventually this thing grows old and it doesn't impress anymore. Nowadays most games especially in the jRPG genre rides on those anime tropes, so that you can immediately feel the archetype behind one character.
This isn't limited to child characters tropes only, there's a whole multitude of different re-used archetypes that honestly make the genre quite boring for my tastes.
The nature of the revealing outfits definitely comes from the anime/otaku culture that monetizes on it. It's a different way of inappropriate clothing than what a western game would do, as they tend to be more colorful and child-like.
Thankfully the industry is so big that there are products made in Japan that avoid falling into those tropes.
Personally, when I was way younger and around the age of the underage characters (this was long ago), they didn't bother me much. Like, I never considered Yuffie from the original FF7 inappropriate (she was even older than me, I think the character was supposed to be 16 years old?), so in that regards I may see how those games are targeted at young teenagers.
As an adult characters like the kid from Star Ocean (pardon my memory, I don't remember the name) were terribly annoying and disturbing.
Well, I was banned so I have a ton of things to quote, sorry. lol
Your post don't make too much sense, even more when you refer to manga. Of course not everyone reads manga, even if the majority read it at least one time in their life. But the popularity and spread of the medium is enormous with people from all ages reading them.
The existence of Shonen, Shoujo, Josei and Seinen demography are a example of this and you have much more than teenagers or kids reading. You have adults, young adults, housewives, salaryman and so on. In Josei for example, the majority are older women with some being housewifes.
Anyway, here's an example where you can see this from the magazines published by Shueisha
http://www.mangamag.fr/actualite/ac...pre-publication-de-manga-de-shueisha-en-2018/
You make some good points in many of your post but the thing is, Nintendo don't do that only because of japanese market. And even so, Nintendo per se as in Nintendo EPD don't do it, this type of content comes from third party (Inteligent Systems) or subsidiaries (Monolith). Of course, it's still a game published by them but internally developed by Nintendo EPD it'll be very difficult to see it.
Now, the motive for why Nintendo don't do that only for market is because the people who are creating it be it directors, designers, artists and so on don't have such a vision of a problem because for them, there's no problem there. And I think you or anyone can draw comparisons as for why that can happen due to perception of culture where they're born to other countries.
I can't explain the why (I mean, I can, sexual desire in the time where yours is beginning). I can only explain that it exists in different works for more than 30 years in works that focus on teenagers ie shounen demography, for example.
Sexualization, fanservice and so on exists due to it on that demography. In others, it has different reasons.
Just a minor correction but it wasn't "manga industry" as publishers of manga are also publishers of books, novels, light novels and general print media. Shueisha, Shogakukan, Kodansha, Square Enix, Ichijinsha, Akita Shoten, Houbunsha, Kadokawa are all that.
Doujin market don't really make money for publishers though as it's not a revenue source for the industry. Of course, in events like Comiket you have 500k people in it during the days of the event going from women and men but that mostly works as an ad of the doujin stories and hentai made sold there for the official stories. If anything, the japanese government benefits more due to the resources that are needed for an event like that to happen.
Those "moe blobs" are literally children though? So it makes total sense why they act like that. If by moe blob you mean series like K-on, Yuru Camp or any anime based on manga from Kirara magazines.
If it's sexualization of minors of 18, then sure, it has, even if it's mostly teenagers than "loli". If it's sex between minors, there's that as well on all demograhy (shounen, shoujo, josei, seinen) but it's not that common in comparison.
If it's something like hentai, then no, that type of content isn't that common and is more on hentai magazines or doujinshi content on comiket and events be it with women drawing "shota" hentai or men drawing "loli" hentai. Which reminds me that people focus so much on loli but forget that shota hentai and non hentai content is a real thing as well and has a very big female fanbase, with even official Voice Actors like Rie Takahashi and Aoi Yuuki talking about them (not hentai, but shotas and how much they love them)
You keep saying this but no one really gives a shit about what you do with your private life in Japan if it's not affecting them. With otaku, that's even more true on the last decade when people that had fear to admit they were one just came out.
And uh, teenagers that buy games will be called otaku and even call themselves one. I have a cousin that is japanese and she's on highschool. She reads some manga magazines and play MH and she's considered one because otaku pretty much became a word for nerd at this point, not just obssession which was the initial thing. I think you have some weird perception that otaku is only a guy in their 30 years that are hikkikomori when the reality couldn't be more different as we know that 45% of otaku are female, that many are teenagers, that the adults are working or on university and that the minority are actual hikkikomori.
He's not wrong in a way. Manga is huge in Japan and it's the biggest comic market of the world. Anime is also pretty big but not all people like to watch compared to pick some magazine or volume to read, which is why for example, you see more older women in their 40s reading a magazine like Be-Boy but not watching anime adaptations of Josei works, which is why Josei works also get more live-action adaptations in movie and doramas than anime adaptations.
Same is also true for video game as otaku (which is what you're talking in the end) are buyers of pretty much every media in Japan, from the most popular, to mainstream to the more niche as they're pretty much what nerd/geek is here but for everything you can imagine from trains, to guns, to games and so on. So for example using your thinking, Fire Emblem having those things on Awakening and Fates is pretty irrelevant when the series isn't niche in any way. There's this association with otaku that you need sexual or sexy things but there's hundreds of examples where those exist or don't exist and they're successful be it on manga, anime or games.
The majority of japanese artists be it mangaka, illustrators, character designers or so on, from women to men worked on hentai doujinshi before they began their carrer and in some cases they continued to do so. This is actually very common for decades.
Here's a link with some examples, going from Ghost in the Shell to Azumanga Daioh
https://goboiano.com/29-famous-manga-and-anime-artists-that-have-done-hentai/
Your post don't make too much sense, even more when you refer to manga. Of course not everyone reads manga, even if the majority read it at least one time in their life. But the popularity and spread of the medium is enormous with people from all ages reading them.
The existence of Shonen, Shoujo, Josei and Seinen demography are a example of this and you have much more than teenagers or kids reading. You have adults, young adults, housewives, salaryman and so on. In Josei for example, the majority are older women with some being housewifes.
Anyway, here's an example where you can see this from the magazines published by Shueisha
http://www.mangamag.fr/actualite/ac...pre-publication-de-manga-de-shueisha-en-2018/
You make some good points in many of your post but the thing is, Nintendo don't do that only because of japanese market. And even so, Nintendo per se as in Nintendo EPD don't do it, this type of content comes from third party (Inteligent Systems) or subsidiaries (Monolith). Of course, it's still a game published by them but internally developed by Nintendo EPD it'll be very difficult to see it.
Now, the motive for why Nintendo don't do that only for market is because the people who are creating it be it directors, designers, artists and so on don't have such a vision of a problem because for them, there's no problem there. And I think you or anyone can draw comparisons as for why that can happen due to perception of culture where they're born to other countries.
I can't explain the why (I mean, I can, sexual desire in the time where yours is beginning). I can only explain that it exists in different works for more than 30 years in works that focus on teenagers ie shounen demography, for example.
Sexualization, fanservice and so on exists due to it on that demography. In others, it has different reasons.
Just a minor correction but it wasn't "manga industry" as publishers of manga are also publishers of books, novels, light novels and general print media. Shueisha, Shogakukan, Kodansha, Square Enix, Ichijinsha, Akita Shoten, Houbunsha, Kadokawa are all that.
Doujin market don't really make money for publishers though as it's not a revenue source for the industry. Of course, in events like Comiket you have 500k people in it during the days of the event going from women and men but that mostly works as an ad of the doujin stories and hentai made sold there for the official stories. If anything, the japanese government benefits more due to the resources that are needed for an event like that to happen.
Those "moe blobs" are literally children though? So it makes total sense why they act like that. If by moe blob you mean series like K-on, Yuru Camp or any anime based on manga from Kirara magazines.
If it's sexualization of minors of 18, then sure, it has, even if it's mostly teenagers than "loli". If it's sex between minors, there's that as well on all demograhy (shounen, shoujo, josei, seinen) but it's not that common in comparison.
If it's something like hentai, then no, that type of content isn't that common and is more on hentai magazines or doujinshi content on comiket and events be it with women drawing "shota" hentai or men drawing "loli" hentai. Which reminds me that people focus so much on loli but forget that shota hentai and non hentai content is a real thing as well and has a very big female fanbase, with even official Voice Actors like Rie Takahashi and Aoi Yuuki talking about them (not hentai, but shotas and how much they love them)
You keep saying this but no one really gives a shit about what you do with your private life in Japan if it's not affecting them. With otaku, that's even more true on the last decade when people that had fear to admit they were one just came out.
And uh, teenagers that buy games will be called otaku and even call themselves one. I have a cousin that is japanese and she's on highschool. She reads some manga magazines and play MH and she's considered one because otaku pretty much became a word for nerd at this point, not just obssession which was the initial thing. I think you have some weird perception that otaku is only a guy in their 30 years that are hikkikomori when the reality couldn't be more different as we know that 45% of otaku are female, that many are teenagers, that the adults are working or on university and that the minority are actual hikkikomori.
He's not wrong in a way. Manga is huge in Japan and it's the biggest comic market of the world. Anime is also pretty big but not all people like to watch compared to pick some magazine or volume to read, which is why for example, you see more older women in their 40s reading a magazine like Be-Boy but not watching anime adaptations of Josei works, which is why Josei works also get more live-action adaptations in movie and doramas than anime adaptations.
Same is also true for video game as otaku (which is what you're talking in the end) are buyers of pretty much every media in Japan, from the most popular, to mainstream to the more niche as they're pretty much what nerd/geek is here but for everything you can imagine from trains, to guns, to games and so on. So for example using your thinking, Fire Emblem having those things on Awakening and Fates is pretty irrelevant when the series isn't niche in any way. There's this association with otaku that you need sexual or sexy things but there's hundreds of examples where those exist or don't exist and they're successful be it on manga, anime or games.
The majority of japanese artists be it mangaka, illustrators, character designers or so on, from women to men worked on hentai doujinshi before they began their carrer and in some cases they continued to do so. This is actually very common for decades.
Here's a link with some examples, going from Ghost in the Shell to Azumanga Daioh
https://goboiano.com/29-famous-manga-and-anime-artists-that-have-done-hentai/
Can
That dub is really creapy. Glad I never played more than the first couple of minutes
Star Ocean The Last Hope has the worst fucking cast, I swear.
I'll go OT for now.
Here's one of the worst things I've ever seen in a game.
The child is "15" (for reasons, she ages very slow and ....looks like a toddler). She literally acts like a young girl while the game tries to sell her 'crush' with the green haired one (they even accidentally kiss).
Same game:
Meracle is a 16 year old cat girl. She's cute, dumb, and she licks people (cuz cat) and lacks any clothing down the middle of her ensemble (but at least literally everything else is covered!).
That dub is really creapy. Glad I never played more than the first couple of minutes
Correct, in all my comments I was connotating the word Otaku as someone with an unhealthy obssession, but by your words this isn't the case no more. I apologize for this, and I will reevaluate my thoughts so I don't make the same mistake in the future.
Those guys saw it wrongly. Aside from the fact that BD/DVD are almost irrelevant for decades and that anime is pretty much funded by external companies to promote their actual industries, anime for ages makes money with merchandise, goods, toys, mobile, games, manga, light novel, soundtrack, streaming and other sources of monetization that the production committee have, which of course, depends on what companies are funding the anime. For example, if Hakusensha and Koei Tecmo are funding Berserk in a committee, the interest of the first is for the manga to get more sales and of the second is for people to buy their musou (which is what happened in 2016, with the Berserk adaptation).
About your third point, your "golden age of anime"is a pretty big lie because unlike now, we didn't get all anime, only a few handful. But at that same time you had the same sexualization of minors already in manga and anime, after all. This didn't begin yesterday, this began in the 70s with Go Nagai and the first ecchi title in Shonen Jump which then influenced others to follow up in manga and then adaptations happened and the influence of all of those works came into anime be it on adaptation or people infuenced with anime originals. Titles like Ranma 1/2 and Urusei Yatsura by Rumiko Takahashi which were the first romcom harem manga were released on the 80s after all, and they had pant shots, naked girls and bare boobs on the pages of Shounen Sunday with minors. Same thing for Dragon Ball where in the 80s you had Kame and Bulma, with Bulma showing her tits out there while having 16 so uh, a minor. So yeah, this very golden age you talk about had many of those things in manga and in their anime adaptations/originals as this is something that exists for over 40 years already.
"My belief is that if anime becomes more mainstream and popular with western audiences, outside of a handful of shows, that western sensibilities will start to influence"
That won't happen because anime is a medium that is largely based on manga, light novels and games (less in games, excluding mobile) which are primarily japanese first and then licensed overseas by other companies and publishers. If anime was a medium with the majority of it's works being original, that could make sense but original is like 10% in comparison to adaptation of works that focus on japanese
More than 80% of anime being shown each cour are niche, with barely any of them selling more than 5,000 Blurays. It is very much the merchandise that help these properties to continue, and in that sense western fans are lacking in that front. You only need to look at gacha games where we are lucky to even put 10% of revenue. You are right about stream sells being a new source of revenue, but unless it changes the two biggest markets are China and Taiwan, who very much like fanservice shows. At best you can expect streaming sites like Netflix cultivating a niche of new shows aimed specifically for adults, instead of the market changing.
More than 80% of anime in each season is niche? I take you're talking about the own anime and not their original work, right? Because there's a difference in being mainstream in Japan like Precure or Pokémon are or being popular, like Attack on Titan or Yuri on Ice are, for example. In the same way that a manga can sell like 500k and their anime bomb.
Aside from that, like you even say, anime don't have just one source of revenue so just judging it for BD/DVD which is a market that goes down already for over 10 years due to physical media being down all around isn't a good measure. Of course, it's the only one we get for anime but the companies have their own with their different types of monetization, which in today it's even more important with streaming in and outside of Japan, merchandise and other monetization.
But you're right, spending on the west is quite less than it is there. Not only because manga, LN and many markets are much smaller in comparison in other countries but because overall because this don't happen as much as your example with gacha where there's such a huge difference between west and japanese/asians spending. In the case of anime, streaming is pretty much what people mostly spend, if they aren't pirating of course.
Yeah, production and distribution was banned in 1999 but possession of child pornography was only banned in 2014. It's why drug laws are viewed in general in a more vile way as it's much older, much like the cp law still isn't strong in it's punishment.
And the claiming at the time wasn't that but that fictional characters aren't real children, that the law is about real ones and that this would be censorship of the artists. Something similar was said when United Nations tried it in 2016 and it was refused. I would post the response but the translation from Yamada comes from a certain garbage subreddit.
Those things you talk about exist on manga since the creation of Manga Time Kirara magazines by Houbunsha in the beginning of the 2000s and then anime adaptations of them came and got popular with K-on. But to put them on the same boat of others that actually have sexualization is quite absurd when the vast majority of those aren't sexualized at all. In fact, what you're calling "moe" here (which exists since the 80s) and CGDCT have almost nothing on such thing be it on their manga or anime adaptation.
It's not. As I said on this post, people just put too much on BD/DVD because it's the only number they can see in anime when companies for almost 10 years don't use just it. The only companies who really care about BD are distributors funding an anime and even for them, they have streaming to make up for it in Japan and overseas in Asia and West. Not only that but manga, light novels, merchandise, soundtracks, live events and overall goods which are different methods of monetization.
You want to learn more? Read about production committee and what they are and how anime numbers are for Japan and overseas with results by the Association of Japanese Animation with monetization directly related to anime. Both are great texts for that.
just to give you a bit of taste
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/05/02/what-is-an-animes-production-committee/
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/01/02/anime-financials-2016/
Super hardcore otaku is quite a euphemism considering that otaku is pretty much a word for that already.
And the same waifu thing exist on the contrary with the hundreds of otome and idol mobile games focused on female audience (which much like the ones with "waifu" that have many girls, they also have a male public here).
Nia is a child in a way as she has the appearance of a girl of 15-16 years. People call teenagers as a child after all.
loli is a sexualized girl below 13 years old. Veronica isn't one in any way as she's not sexualized.
And a character being older and having a child appearance don't make it automatically loli as well. Just when there's sexualization.
Unlike what you implied with your comment, otaku shit don't mean people (men, which is what you all think otaku are) liking sexual stuff, fanservice and whatsoever. It literally just means people that are into media, so otaku for manga and anime in this case. There's hundreds of inocent series out there without nothing to complain about and the buyers and consumers are otaku. You watch Precure and you're a teenager? Otaku. You're a women or a men in that age and do the same, much like buying merchandise? Otaku. Literally your act of consuming makes you as one in Japan regardless if you consider to be one or not. That was the reason for why some people had fear in the past to admit they were otaku of some kind (militar, games, manga, train, etcetera) but that changed in the 2010s as this just became accepted just like nerd is now. Even more because the stigma of otaku only ever was born due to an incident on the 80s that changed public perception and then created a generalization for all.
Also, Both of those series are literally "otaku shit" as well as both are bought by otaku in large margin in different ages as you can see by the reports that shueisha does every year from the demographics of their magazines, which is true for pretty much every entertainment media or products of japan going from music to manga.
Along that both are from shonen jump which is the bigger manga magazine of the country and more mainstream, the same magazine that have many manga with sexualization of minors (all of them in all demography with the exception of josei have anyway, but it's just a example), including the own Boku no Hero you refer that have a 15 yo girl with tits out in her uniform with no necessity but to just give fanservice.
You want some graphics? Here some graphics about all the manga magazines published by Shueisha and their demogprahic both for male and female magazines
With much more information on job, school and such there as well:
http://www.mangamag.fr/actualite/ac...pre-publication-de-manga-de-shueisha-en-2018/
That has nothing to do with it, at all. It's the dominance of mobile in the country that made many people be out of consoles, along that PS4 isn't a console that attend to what the japanese audience wants. Nintendo was able to maintain an audience in the country due to the Switch being what jp want, which is a small and portable console. Handheld always sold more in japan than consoles and that has been even more true on the last decade with the console losing their market, which is what happened with PS4 since there was no adaptation to their desires, unlike with Switch where the handheld aspect of the console helped it's popularity since Nintendo adapted it to japan.
About low birth rate, this is an issue that most countries have to work on and it's a problem all around the world. United States, South Korea, Germany, Australia and many other countries have a similar problem dealing with birth rates that are getting lower.
I'm curious for what manga series you consider that have this to compared them to their actual sales in the market. lol
Anime has always been niche, but the outpour of fanservice and moe shows hasn't turn off any grand quantity of fans. If anything anime is the biggest it ever has continuing the upward trend of the last couple of years.
As for console game sales, that has more to do with mobile gaming cemented its spot, and becoming a million dollar business in Japan. Casuals moved over to there as it is typically less time consuming, while being a small package of the real thing. Also the waifu and husbando market has moved over to there, with most otaku franchises having their own gacha game.
https://www.serkantoto.com/2016/08/17/japans-mobile-game-market-size/
Anime has always been niche... based in what? TV ratings? BD/DVD? How do you rate popularity of anime since the 60s until now? For the first case, that's literally untrue due to Touch, Dr. Slump and many series that had record audience, for the second case, even in the past for the 90s and beginning of the 2000s, that wasn't the unique monetization of the companies be it with toys or other products.
Fujoshi isn't the same thing as female otaku. All fujoshi are otaku but not all otaku are fujoshi. There's a difference there.
Also, those totally would happen without them. All of those had successful manga (except Tiger and Bunny) with pretty big numbers before the anime adaptation as in most cases since manga in many times are already big without it and gains more public without. Maybe there's an argument about more seasons being made due to them being one of the motives, but not the original.
And Idol (male) anime which are adaptations of mobile franchises like Idolmaster Side M and Idolize are something much more dedicated to them than the series you mentioned which are for both publics.
None of this data prove anything though. There's so much more factors for it than just the crazy motive that person said. Even more when gaming has always been an otaku thing since the beginning in Japan, much like the other entertainment we keep mentioning like anime and manga.
As far as manga, the data is even more unreliable as there's digital sales since the 2010s and the print media not only in the country but in the world is going down, even if the numbers still are very high for a comic book market considering that the best-selling series have over 1 million per year with only physical sales.
Same for anime which we only have BD numbers which are going down since 2005 at least due to physical media going down everywhere, and it's the only number we get from dozens of monetizations companies make so that is unreliable as well to dictate what is and what isn't when we don't even know the full numbers of each series.
Joshikousei is just the term for highschool girl so using it alone don't mean anything. What you mean here is JK business which is basically highschool girl prostitution which happens from the lower of being paid to just be together and to the higher to literally have sex or engage in sexual activities. It goes from highschool girls on 15-17 that: works alone, works in group or works for some kind of place like the cafe mentioned in the article.
Also, the manga on those images are hentai manga if that wasn't clear. Those aren't published by major publishers of print media in Japan like Shueisha, Kodansha, Kadokawa, etctera but very smaller ones that basically only publish hentai content.
... Yes? This is literally the objective of all the companies funding anime: Making people spend money on their own industries with cross media which is... anime. This graphic that he posted don't even show the spend, boost or related things.
Why do you think that 90% of the works on anime are adaptations? Not only because the other markets have more offer of works but because publishers want to boost their sales in their successful (or even not) manga or whatever it is and other companies who go into contact and wants to use those series to have their own money, be it Aniplex distributing an anime, Fuji TV wanting a series for their noitaminA block, NHK wanting an anime for their timeslot or Bandai Namco Entertainment wanting to promote a game. That's how it works and that's what's been doing for decades now with huge, big or mid-size companies funding and contracting studios for it, which is working for them as they see it as crossmedia for their own industries. Same can be said about originals as well which have the same kind of thinking.
In a way, the anime industry is no different than the gaming industry, which what you just said is pretty similar when you compare it to MTX, Season Pass, DLC and such, with the difference that it's more a crossmedia thing in anime since it's a media very focused on that due to how it works and the companies involved. Those companies funding it need something on their receiveing end after all, and that's on their industry per se.
Japan, Taiwan and South Korea are the biggest markets of anime outside of Japan. Look at the most popular series on the countries and you will see if your theory is true or not. Hell, even in the west it already would be broken by a large margin in all different kinds of series. There's market for both cases in the west and we see that with streaming.
As an example, a show called The Rising of the Shield Hero which is based on a Light Novel was adapted in january of this year and it has a bad reputation out there due to it's content. This was an anime that a Crunchyroll producer chose between the options that Kadokawa (the LN and manga publisher) had on their entire offer of works and then, Kadokawa invested the most on the committee and Crunchyroll was the second one. In the end, we can see that they had the intended effect as it's one of the most popular series on this year, up there as one of the most watched series on the service. In an AMA, a Kadokawa producer also confirmed that the series was doing very well in the west and above their expectations. And then in Japan, the manga and light novels of the series had boosts due to the anime adaptation and the overall sales changed from 4 million to 6 million in 2 months due to backlog sales.
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/aozaw0/ama_with_shield_hero_producer_junichiro_tamura/
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/in...lebrating-6.2-million-copies-in-print/.145820
This is so wrong that it hurts. Shonen manga as a demography literally exists since the 60s and you already had many characters on teenage age or earlier. Aside from this, there's many examples of manga with adults that are successful in all four demography in different ways. Without not even counting the fact that in Josei almost all the characters are adults and in seinen the same happens much more.
Sorry for the long posts, if I was here at the time, I would quote everything that I wanted to correct or respond alone. lol
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Nia is child-like. She's the shortest girl in the squad and acts like a child sometimes. I've played it, yes, and how she's heavily sexualized later on is just outright gross.
Your views perfectly summarizes my explanation in the OP regarding how people would just accept what the author says, despite the characters definitely not look and/or act like an adult. Like how people accept Marie Rose as a 18 y-o girl despite being the smallest of the bunch and act like a kid.
but like... Nia over poppi?Nia is child-like. She's the shortest girl in the squad and acts like a child sometimes. I've played it, yes, and how she's heavily sexualized later on is just outright gross.
Your views perfectly summarizes my explanation in the OP regarding how people would just accept what the author says, despite the characters definitely not look and/or act like an adult. Like how people accept Marie Rose as a 18 y-o girl despite being the smallest of the bunch and act like a kid.
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If I were to list every child/child-like character from Xenoblade series alone, the images in the OP would be half-filled with girls from the franchise.
No problem. Of course people on unhealthy obssession exists as well much like here but otaku in Japan literally is used all the time in the same way as nerd/geek are here. It's not just people in that condition, much like it's not just people that want sex or sexual things, even more because each person has their own taste and from what we can see from researches, 45% of the otaku in Japan are women, which already makes it very diversified, which you can see on anime events or doujin events like comiket which has over 500k people during the days, a day exclusively for women due to how big they are and in the normal days they're there as well. So in the end, otaku are just too much exaggerated with a fame that basically exists due to an incident in the 80s that made the reputation go down as it was discovered that a criminal was an otaku (which would be like a gun incident in the US which someone discover that the guy was a gamer and then the stigma goes to all), which then created this for all the ones until it diminished in the mid 2000s.
Japanese culture has a pedophilia problem. It's pretty normalized here. Have a conversation with some 40-60 year old salary man and he won't be shy at all to say he has a "loli-con" or Lolita complex.
The open sexualization, exploitation and desire of underage girls is very disturbing.
Japan has a bizarre over obsession with cute. Everything has to be cute. Women/girls are always trying to be as cute as they can. Be it clothes, makeup, gestures and body language and even to the point where they will put on a fake extra cute voice, to attempt to sound even more like an anime character. They are constantly complimented on being cute, which in turn acts as reinforcement as well as a feedback loop that continues to fuel the cute trope seen in anime and offer further incentive to act cute.
I think it's this cuteness obsession that is at the root of the problem. The line between cute and sexualized cuteness has pretty much all but been erased. With preschool characters like doraemon and anpanman being innocent "children's characters" cute, and everything else being free grounds for almost unchallenged sexualization.
Im sure there are exceptions but this seems to be pretty much what I see on a daily basis. It's not just games, it's pretty much everywhere in Japan.
The open sexualization, exploitation and desire of underage girls is very disturbing.
Japan has a bizarre over obsession with cute. Everything has to be cute. Women/girls are always trying to be as cute as they can. Be it clothes, makeup, gestures and body language and even to the point where they will put on a fake extra cute voice, to attempt to sound even more like an anime character. They are constantly complimented on being cute, which in turn acts as reinforcement as well as a feedback loop that continues to fuel the cute trope seen in anime and offer further incentive to act cute.
I think it's this cuteness obsession that is at the root of the problem. The line between cute and sexualized cuteness has pretty much all but been erased. With preschool characters like doraemon and anpanman being innocent "children's characters" cute, and everything else being free grounds for almost unchallenged sexualization.
Im sure there are exceptions but this seems to be pretty much what I see on a daily basis. It's not just games, it's pretty much everywhere in Japan.
Change who you're talking to. This isn't most of "japanese society" or whatever.
Your point is great and all but can you explain to me why you have an avatar of the japanese imperial flag? Or you don't know what it represents?
It's mind blowing that this is showed like that without no consequences.
I mean if Japan Government try to do that.
We will see a big Protest of Mangaka,game company and Otaku People.
maybe not a relate but years ago thai tv chanale and manga publisher censor fanserverice scene.
https://kotaku.com/thailands-anime-censorship-sure-is-strict-1106256597
Thai viewer and reader complain a lot.
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No, he's right on it. A pretty big number of women on their 20s and 30s have voice like this, be it their natural voices or just faked. There's even men in Japan that don't like women who do that and think that it completely breaks a relationship as the voice of some just irritates them, even more with the "mooooooooh" or "yadaaaaaaa" and the like. Very similar is a woman putting her hands on her mouth when laughing even if they have no problems with their teeth, but that's more cultural, I guess.
You just need to be on Japan that you will hear it in places, or even on TV where you'll see it too. It's not all of course but a big number do it.
I would like to see that list because to me it sounds pretty bs
The youngest xenoblade girls are some optional blades, lin and poppi, the rest are all adult
Where on earth do you live? I've been here almost 10 years and literally never met a woman who has done any of the things you said in a way that wasn't supposed to be ironic. And when that stuff is on TV or whatever, natives' reactions range from a somewhat indifferent "wtf lol" to downright exasperation.
If you're talking about how its pervaded and consumed in the media, then of course there's some material for discussion there. But don't act like this is normal and those 40-60 yo pervs are regular Joes you meet in everyday life. That's just straight up dishonest and paints a negative image for no reason whatsoever.