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Japanese games aren't better than western games. The west just stopped making games.

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A New Beginning

A New Beginning

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Oct 27, 2017
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EDIT: I'm talking about AA/AAA games because its quantity can be compared to the Japanese output. Indie games are pretty much not a thing in Japan so there's no comparision to be made.

We should look at major Western developers/publishers to confirm this claim:

Valve - made multiple masterpieces during the last gen including the Portal series, Left For Dead series and Team Fortress 2. Now is only making money on weapon skins.

EA: One of the most diverse publishers during the last generation: Mirror's Edge, Dead Space, Mass Effect, Dragon Age. After having found immense success with FUT MTX they are now chasing after the reccuring revenue model.

Rockstar: We know all about the 1-game every year image. 2 GTA games, MP 3, L.A Noire, Midnight Club saw the light of day during the last-gen. I'm sure RDR2 is going to be a masterpiece but the difference is staggering.

MS: Majority agrees that the early years of X360 included the best 1st party output in MS's history. This gen was filled with cancellations because MS didn't see much value in traditional console games.

If all publishers/devs were like Bethesda, Naughty Dog or CDPR and never stopped seeing value in traditional console games without chasing f2p/mobile money we wouldn't see so many people doubting the quality of western game developement.
Greed killed the West. No outside force and certainly not Japanese devs.


Mod Edit: Lets have a conversation without console warring or insulting another poster. Consider this a warning.
 
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sredgrin

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Oh, well if there's an internet meme about Xbox having no games, surely that case is closed.
 
DocSeuss

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I'm torn between wanting to point out that there are a shitload of great Western games out right now, and more keep coming out every day, and being happy to argue that there hasn't been a single Japanese game released in the past half dozen years that's as good as the best the West has to offer right now... aaaaand wanting to scream at the OP for arguing that service-based games aren't games, because that's a horribly dumbass opinion to have, and it was just as dumbass when Jim Sterling had it.

MS: There's a internet meme about Xbox having no games. Enough said.
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They ought to pull your posting privileges for this console war nonsense right here. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go play Forza Motorsport 7.
 
cw_sasuke

cw_sasuke

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You need to realize that AAA gaming is a small subset of the gaming industry.

Go pick up Celeste. No, they didnt stop making games.
 
Yager

Yager

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Oct 26, 2017
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DocSeuss said:
I'm torn between wanting to point out that there are a shitload of great Western games out right now, and more keep coming out every day, and being happy to argue that there hasn't been a single Japanese game released in the past half dozen years that's as good as the best the West has to offer right now... aaaaand wanting to scream at the OP for arguing that service-based games aren't games, because that's a horribly dumbass opinion to have, and it was just as dumbass when Jim Sterling had it.



They ought to pull your posting privileges for this console war nonsense right here.
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But real games are the ones you only pay once for the full experience. No DLC, no MTX, no lootboxes. Only one time. That's a real game.
 
KZXcellent

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Give Japan some time and they'll jump on monetization train as well. I can agree that some devs/pubs have dropped the ball to a degree but I think this is a little extreme.
 
djinnEXE

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You do know Nintendo falls under Japanese devs right? "Westernized" as the might be, Sony too.

Edit: Also "westerns devs" aren't just EA/T2/Ubisoft/Acti-Bliz ect. <- They might not make games any more, as you say, but others are.
 
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Strings

Strings

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Everyone is making great games right now. East, West, we're literally drowning in great games.
 
DocSeuss

DocSeuss

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Everyone trying to defend the west by acting as if all AAA western games are service based games and pretending that non-AAA games are real games so the OP is wrong need to stop.

1) there are a shitload of non service-based AAA western games

2) service-based games are still games, jfc

Yager said:
But real games are the ones you only pay once for the full experience. No DLC, no MTX, no lootboxes. Only one time. That's a real game.
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You really wanna tell me that World of Warcraft isn't a real game? Fuck outta here.
 
Raijinto

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I mean we can still take what we've got with the likes of Uncharteds and Overwatch and The Witcher 3 and DOOM and CoD and whatever else and compare them to the current slate of Japanese games and I prefer the latter.

I get your point but there are also many Japanese devs/franchises who have gone kaput/on ice recently too...
 
Rosenkrantz

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Jan 17, 2018
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I think this claim was already debunked several times in an ongoing thread. Big publishers isn't all there is to the game development.

And aren't Capcom and Koei poster-children of greed in the industry as well?
 
OP
OP
A New Beginning

A New Beginning

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DocSeuss said:
I'm torn between wanting to point out that there are a shitload of great Western games out right now, and more keep coming out every day, and being happy to argue that there hasn't been a single Japanese game released in the past half dozen years that's as good as the best the West has to offer right now... aaaaand wanting to scream at the OP for arguing that service-based games aren't games, because that's a horribly dumbass opinion to have, and it was just as dumbass when Jim Sterling had it.



They ought to pull your posting privileges for this console war nonsense right here. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go play Forza Motorsport 7.
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I'm not saying that service based games aren't games. The fact that pubs are all seeking to make long-term services means that there won't be many if any sequels = less games = my point.
 
RexNovis

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Nah the big publishers inflating game budgets to snuff out competition and chasing ever more revenue to offset the costs has led to the reality we see for AAA games in the West now. Eventually (I hope) the monoliths will implode and numerous smaller companies will rise up to take their place.

Mondy said:
Sea of Thieves is out next month. Name me one big Xbox exclusive that we KNOW is coming in 2018 that follows after it.
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Crackdown? I think? It's still coming this year right?
 
Prine

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sredgrin said:
Oh, well if there's an internet meme about Xbox having no games, surely that case is closed.
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Such profound evidence, Cuphead, Forza Horizon 3, Halo 5, Gears 4, Ori must've been an illusion.

Extremely simplistic and erroneous arguments OP. Not sure how you link Rockstar producing masterpieces ever few years as being inactive. Annual releases isnt a sign of quality, and you dismissed thier GTA5 release which is one of the most played and best selling games this gen.
 
spladam

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OP, I assume you believe AAA video games are the only games worth counting, yes? Off the top of my head: Hyper Light Drifter, Stardew Valley, Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice, Desync, Katan Zero, Cup Head.

A lot of times we have an idea for a thread that is not a "good" idea if we think about it for a second.
 

Vault

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have you seen Japans output in the 90s compared to now?

if anyone stopped making games its Japan
 
Ferrs

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Because we know for a fact japanese devs arent doing DLC, F2P and GaaS games. Yep.
 
djinnEXE

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CaviarMeths said:
Was JUST having a conversation on Discord about how people just completely ignore non-AAA because they want to complain about stuff.
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That attitude is even present on this forum. Indie games are seen as software that is supposed to be cheap and undeserving of a person's attention unless it's on sale/deep discounts. If a dev has the audacity to charge $40+ people even flame them.

Forgetting Indie means Independent
 
Yager

Yager

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Oct 26, 2017
655
spladam said:
OP, I assume you believe AAA video games are the only games worth counting, yes? Off the top of my head: Hyper Light Drifter, Stardew Valley, Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice, Desync, Katan Zero.

A lot of times we have an idea for a thread that is not a "good" idea if we think about it for a second.
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I mean...

A New Beginning said:
I have a AAA bias. Don't care too much about indie games.
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Like it or not, indie games are games to. REAL GAMES. Because you don't care about them doesn't mean they don't exist or are not important to the industry and consumers.
 
Eumi

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Ah yes. Internet memes from console fanboys. The greatest evidence one can have.

This is such a bizarre OP.
 
Ishiro

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Lebanon
I don't get this thread. I understand that you think Western publishers are in decline but why make it a Japan versus West thing? Can't we just be happy that Japanese companies are back in the game now and be grateful that we've literally been drowning in great games for the past 2 years? 2018 is looking to be just as stellar too, and that mainly thanks to Western publishers.
 
bane833

bane833

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The West is still alive and well, EA, Valve, Activision and Microsoft might have gone to shit but there are still plenty of developers out there. Especially easter European devs are picking up a lot of the slack.
 
Dehnus

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A New Beginning said:
We should look at major Western developers/publishers to confirm this claim:

Valve - made multiple masterpieces during the last gen including the Portal series, Left For Dead series and Team Fortress 2. Now is only making money on weapon skins.

EA: One of the most diverse publishers during the last generation: Mirror's Edge, Dead Space, Mass Effect, Dragon Age. After having found immense success with FUT MTX they are now chasing after the reccuring revenue model.

Rockstar: We know all about the 1-game every year image. 2 GTA games, MP 3, L.A Noire, Midnight Club saw the light of day during the last-gen. I'm sure RDR2 is going to be a masterpiece but the difference is staggering.

MS: There's a internet meme about Xbox having no games. Enough said.

If all publishers/devs were like Bethesda, Naughty Dog or CDPR and never stopped seeing value in traditional console games without chasing f2p/mobile money we wouldn't see so many people doubting the quality of western game developement.
Greed killed the West. No outside force and certainly not Japanese devs.
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Please ERA, stop seeing the west as just the US, I already had to keep my blue and white blood from boiling in the "Blame Bernie Stolar for the western failure of Saturn". In EUrope the Saturn had it's own reasons for failing, some of which SEGA's fault, the other like, Sony's existing retail relationships, not.

Same goes for this case: You cannot just stroke the entire First world with a "WEST!" brush, nor can you behave like what US companies do, represents what European companies do. It is very similar to that hilarious "Videogame crash!"crap that keep popping up. Something that only happened in the USA, as the rest of the Western World was playing on Home Computers like the C64 and ZX Spectrum. From that home computer craze we in Europe got most of our current day game devs and a very different dev culture than the USA.

Which brings me to the point: European Devs seem far less MTXy and lootboxy than say US Devs. There are exceptions like Dice, but even they are under a US umbrella of EA. Ubisoft for instance is by far not as predatory, CDPR is a saint in comparison. True, some parallels can be drawn, and with gigantic publishers like EA and Ubisoft there is a global presence. But I do believe ERA has a bit of a US Bias, which is fine. But please do not use that BIAS to paint the whole of the Western Dev culture.

It's like that obnoxious :"Western Devs couldn't program music engines and compose!" or :"Western Devs weren't used to FM!" crap. Yes they were, Chris Huelsbeck made the Megadrive SING! Just US composers were lacking at the time.
 
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Yager

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Title should be
Japanese games aren't better than western games. The west just stopped making games that I care about.
 
Zhukov

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*shrug*

I basically only play western games and there are so still so many that I literally cannot keep up.

It's not like I buy all of them either, I'm pretty damn picky about what I play.

Don't get me wrong, there's no shortage of microtransaction-driven games-as-service bullshit going around, but there's also no shortage of plain ol' games.
 
K Samedi

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I think the good games these days are more in the AA and Indie space than AAA space to be honest. The AAA space is reserved for grindy never ending service games. To be honest im not really that interested in those type of games but there are loads of other options in the mid tier and indie space.
 
Raijinto

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djinnEXE said:
That attitude is even present on this forum. Indie games are seen as software that is supposed to be cheap and undeserving of a person's attention unless it's on sale/deep discounts. If a dev has the audacity to charge $40+ people even flame them.

Forgetting Indie means Independent
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Even worse for some people, they're only worth their value in PS+ or GwG subscriptions. Very disappointing attitude that some people with an 'AAA bias' have.

Also re-reading the OP and lol at the internet meme being used as evidence or some such.
 
Mr.Deadshot

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What's up with the thread quality on resetera in the last weeks?

Western developers stopped making games? Sure thing, lol.
 
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