Jason Kingsley: Epic is "paying through the nose" to build its store

abracadaver

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,317
Just a month after Jason Kingsley told MCV he would need a "bloody good reason" to do an Epic Store exclusive, Rebellion Developments signed just such a deal for Zombie Army 4.
...

"Generally I think I would prefer not to do exclusives but I understand Epic's position with it, and quite frankly they are paying through the nose to build their store," said Jason. "All credit to them, it's fantastic, and we'll take some of their money, thank you very much."

Despite Steam being the de facto PC storefront for over a decade, Jason said the decision to go elsewhere was a "pure business case."
Full interview here:

 

AJ_Wings

Member
Oct 31, 2017
455
You’d think some of that money would actually be spent on the development of that barebones, slapdash piece of shit store.
 

Hieroph

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,613
Kingsley sounds pretty honest about it.

Gotta wonder how sustainable that is going to be in the long run.
 

Danim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
187
At least they’re honest that they did it for the cash, rather than peddling the usual bullshit about it being a ‘superior experience for consumers’.
 

khamakazee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,562
You’d think some of that money would actually be spent on the development of that barebones, slapdash piece of shit store.
And this is why I can be critical of Valve. They used to make more games but now seem content on taking money from third party while trying to get people to not use Windows with things like Steamboxes which failed.

Epic thinks they need exclusives to compete and that is exactly how the console industry works as well. They know even if their store is at parity with Steam it will still be a tough go at it. Of course the best scenario is to build your own games or at the very least curate and help developeres early on, not just take them away from Steam.
 

MechaBreaker

Member
Jun 26, 2018
1,551
At least developers are starting to be more honest about the deals. I don't blame them for taking a deal that's literally too good to not take. Just don't try to bullshit me into believing you did it for other reasons than the money.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,274
Seems to be unpopular with consumers, but you cant deny that a huge chunk of devs and pubs seem to be completely on board with Epic. At the very least, they agree with their push for better revenue splits and this is pretty much the only way to lobby for that
 

CryptiK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,708
Yeah the issue is they aren't putting the money in on consumer friendly ideas and features.
 

THRILLHO

Member
Nov 6, 2017
375
At least they’re honest that they did it for the cash, rather than peddling the usual bullshit about it being a ‘superior experience for consumers’.
I still won’t buy anything on EGS, but I feel the same. I appreciate that a dev finally admitted it.

See you on a different store sometime
 

Killer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
453
At least he’s honest. Not “Concerned” about revenue split or “COMPETITION”.
 

Cecil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,994
Yeah I hope he gets paid well, cause I ain't running after him to a store I don't like, for a game called Zombie Army 4.

The devs might be onboard with this, but I'm not, until they sell it to me from a customers perspective.
 

Maximo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,319
Seems to be unpopular with consumers, but you cant deny that a huge chunk of devs and pubs seem to be completely on board with Epic. At the very least, they agree with their push for better revenue splits and this is pretty much the only way to lobby for that
Those lucky few while creating a even bigger gap between indie developers, I mean hell alot of deals just seem to come from bigger established IPs rather then going out and finding interesting games to fund them.
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,508
aka moneyhat

But hey, it's understandable. Game development is time consuming and expensive. Who wouldn't want incentives to sell their games somewhere?
 

Shredderi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,341
Seems to be unpopular with consumers, but you cant deny that a huge chunk of devs and pubs seem to be completely on board with Epic. At the very least, they agree with their push for better revenue splits and this is pretty much the only way to lobby for that
The guy just told us in very straight honest manner that it was the upfront cash payment. No need to speculate.
 

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,920
Austria
At least they are honest.
I always supported Rebellion, not anymore tho as they lost me as a customer.
Especially since it's affecting a new Zombie Army game. Fucking fuck.
 

Dinjoralo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,034
And this is why I can be critical of Valve. They used to make more games but now seem content on taking money from third party while trying to get people to not use Windows with things like Steamboxes which failed.

Epic thinks they need exclusives to compete and that is exactly how the console industry works as well. They know even if their store is at parity with Steam it will still be a tough go at it. Of course the best scenario is to build your own games or at the very least curate and help developeres early on, not just take them away from Steam.
I don't entirely get what you're saying here. You're pointing out how exclusivity is how things go on console, but that's not how things go on PC. A platform's feature set is much more important when the platform isn't locked into that ecosystem, and stuff like making Linux gaming an option is a feature. Maybe it's not what the vast majority of people want, but Steam has a lot of such "niche" features that add up and give appeal to a lot of people.

And if you only care about games, Steam has a lot of games not on Epic's store because a lot of developers and publishers aren't giving them the time of day.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,568
Still amazed that they have nothing even close to resembling an answer to the question of "If a game is on Epic store and Steam/other stores, what reason would a customer have for choosing Epic Store?"

They're throwing huge sums of money around to generate negative sentiment from their target audience.

Edit: and what happens when the fountain of money dries out? They've trained developers to not put their games on Epic Store without a big upfront payment, and they're only attracting customers by removing alternatives.
 

Siresly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,157
Surprise, the reason for selling out was money. At least they're honest about it.
Which of course doesn't really change anything for those who were looking forward to this game and are now looking forward to it by an additional year.
 

Winterreise

Member
Feb 28, 2018
1,386
Good for them. Take that money when it's available.

Honest about it or not, I don't blame any developer who takes Epic's money.
 

khamakazee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,562
I don't entirely get what you're saying here. You're pointing out how exclusivity is how things go on console, but that's not how things go on PC. A platform's feature set is much more important when the platform isn't locked into that ecosystem, and stuff like making Linux gaming an option is a feature. Maybe it's not what the vast majority of people want, but Steam has a lot of such "niche" features that appeal to a lot of people.

And if you only care about games, Steam has a lot of games not on Epic's store because a lot of developers and publishers aren't giving them the time of day.
I bought games like Hayes on Epic store and it is exclusive. So that tactic did indeed work on me. Of course developers are going to Steam, that's where the money is for them but if Epic gives them money they will take it and go there. I don't get your counter argument other than you don't like the Epic store.

You're also wrong about the PC being different. It makes no difference to Ubisoft if they put their games on the PC or consoles. They want to sell games and make money just like anyone else. Was Destiny on Steam? Is Fallout 76? So of course they are going to try and do it themsleves but smaller publishers don't reallt have that luxury so they go to Steam because that's their best chance at properity. So why is FFVII Remake on PS4 different than Hayes on Epic? They are both games supported by publishers looking for the best deal. Does the PS4 offer the best expereince possible and give you all the features and customer support above all others?

You still didn't give me any reason to like Valve more if they don't make as many games. Great, they have a place for third party. Still doesn't show me Valve is any better than Epic when it comes to making games.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,458
I bought games like Hayes on Epic store and it is exclusive. So that tactic did indeed work on me. Of course developers are going to Steam, that's where the money is for them but if Epic gives them money they will take it and go there. I don't get your counter argument other than you don't like the Epic store.

You're also wrong about the PC being different. It makes no difference to Ubisoft if they put their games on the PC or consoles. They want to sell games and make money just like anyone else. Was Destiny on Steam? Is Fallout 76? So of course they are going to try and do it themsleves but smaller publishers don't reallt have that luxury so they go to Steam because that's their best chance at properity. So why is FFVII Remake on PS4 different than Hayes on Epic? They are both games supported by publishers looking for the best deal. Does the PS4 offer the best expereince possible and give you all the features and customer support above all others?

You still didn't give me any reason to like Valve more if they don't make as many games. Great, they have a place for third party. Still doesn't show me Valve is any better than Epic when it comes to making games.
Valve has made more games than Epic in the last 5 years...
 

C-Dub

Member
Oct 25, 2017
460
Cardiff, Wales
Still amazed that they have nothing even close to resembling an answer to the question of "If a game is on Epic store and Steam/other stores, what reason would a vustomer have for choosing Epic Store?"

They're throwing huge sums of money around to generate negative sentiment from their target audience.
Epic should've spent money building out their store and making it attractive to customers before wooing exclusives. You know, real competition. But then Epic can't really support features like Steam or GOG does because their cut is so unsustainably small that all they can do is run a barebones operation. Doing it the way they did it, rather than waiting to do exclusivity until the store is feature rich and good for customers, just generated enmity and just created (yet another) toxic atmosphere in the PC space.

I appreciate that developers are happy to take the money, no matter how shortsighted I think they are, and Kingsley's honesty is refreshing considering most developers who take the bribe make up bullshit as to why they did it, but Epic's case for doing it is completely nonsensical and looks like it's going to fail.
 

moyad0

Member
Apr 1, 2019
39
I just checked that Trello Roadmap and there is a lot of items with "July" as target.
I wonder if they are trying to speed up the store development...
 

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,920
Austria
I bought games like Hayes on Epic store and it is exclusive. So that tactic did indeed work on me. Of course developers are going to Steam, that's where the money is for them but if Epic gives them money they will take it and go there. I don't get your counter argument other than you don't like the Epic store.

You're also wrong about the PC being different. It makes no difference to Ubisoft if they put their games on the PC or consoles. They want to sell games and make money just like anyone else. Was Destiny on Steam? Is Fallout 76? So of course they are going to try and do it themsleves but smaller publishers don't reallt have that luxury so they go to Steam because that's their best chance at properity. So why is FFVII Remake on PS4 different than Hayes on Epic? They are both games supported by publishers looking for the best deal. Does the PS4 offer the best expereince possible and give you all the features and customer support above all others?

You still didn't give me any reason to like Valve more if they don't make as many games. Great, they have a place for third party. Still doesn't show me Valve is any better than Epic when it comes to making games.
Stop comparing console exclusivity vs PC store exclusivity. In most of the cases a console eclusivity deal means that they actively support the development of the game from the start through the publisher. Epic is not doing this, as they are doing this AFTERWARDS.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,458
I feel like Epic really shouldn't have cancelled Paragon and Unreal Tournament: The New One. They would have been smarter loss leaders than some of these exclusives.
They barely can support Fortnite crazy dev cycle without crunching their devs to death, and that is after killing the other games. Meanwhile Valve supports 2 Gaas games (3 I guesd now with DU).
 

Sidebuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
457
California
I don't know. I feel like you're in the wrong industry if you're willing to shit on your potential customers for more money up front. It really seems dumb from a long term perspective because eventually Epic will give up on buying exclusives and all that ill will you made towards potential customers may come back to bite you in the ass.
 

Kerotan

Member
Oct 31, 2018
2,214
Opportunities like that don't come along often. How often will a developer have a storefront paying through the nose for their software. Wise move to take it.

As for Epic I appreciate they're trying to build a popular store, but considering the sheer amount of money they're investing you'd think they'd improve the features at a faster rate.
 

khamakazee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,562
Stop comparing console exclusivity vs PC store exclusivity. In most of the cases a console eclusivity deal means that they actively support the development of the game from the start through the publisher. Epic is not doing this, as they are doing this AFTERWARDS.
Why would I stop comparing when it's the same game developers doing it? Did Sony develop the DLC for Call of Duty? Did Microsoft develop Tomb Raider? Is Sony developing FFVII Remake? Epic is offereing them some form of a benefit whether its money upfront, a larger percentage of revenue, marketing... just like Sony and Microsoft did. So tell me again what's the differrence?
 

Dinjoralo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,034
I bought games like Hayes on Epic store and it is exclusive. So that tactic did indeed work on me. Of course developers are going to Steam, that's where the money is for them but if Epic gives them money they will take it and go there. I don't get your counter argument other than you don't like the Epic store.

You're also wrong about the PC being different. It makes no difference to Ubisoft if they put their games on the PC or consoles. They want to sell games and make money just like anyone else. Was Destiny on Steam? Is Fallout 76? So of course they are going to try and do it themsleves but smaller publishers don't reallt have that luxury so they go to Steam because that's their best chance at properity. So why is FFVII Remake on PS4 different than Hayes on Epic? They are both games supported by publishers looking for the best deal. Does the PS4 offer the best expereince possible and give you all the features and customer support above all others?

You still didn't give me any reason to like Valve more if they don't make as many games. Great, they have a place for third party. Still doesn't show me Valve is any better than Epic when it comes to making games.
If I decide to buy Rainbow Six Siege on uPlay, I don't also have to spend four hundred dollars for the privilege of using uPlay. I can just buy whatever games are only on a given store front and get everything else on the one that lets me play games with a Dualshock 4 without fiddling with a second program.
 

deadman322

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,114
You still didn't give me any reason to like Valve more if they don't make as many games. Great, they have a place for third party. Still doesn't show me Valve is any better than Epic when it comes to making games.
valve just releases a game a few weeks ago. epic last released a game a few years ago.

valve supports multiple games. epic just supports one game.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,568
They barely can support Fortnite crazy dev cycle without crunching their devs to death, and that is after killing the other games. Meanwhile Valve supports 2 Gaas games (3 I guesd now with DU).
What if they took the millions they are spending on getting games removed from Steam and instead used it to hire more development staff.
 

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,920
Austria
Why would I stop comparing when it's the same game developers doing it? Did Sony develop the DLC for Call of Duty? Did Microsoft develop Tomb Raider? Is Sony developing FFVII Remake? Epic is offereing them some form of a benefit whether its money upfront, a larger percentage of revenue, marketing... just like Sony and Microsoft did. So tell me again what's the differrence?
I explained you the difference already and you come with the same bad comparisons.
 

Airbar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,017
I bought games like Hayes on Epic store and it is exclusive. So that tactic did indeed work on me. Of course developers are going to Steam, that's where the money is for them but if Epic gives them money they will take it and go there. I don't get your counter argument other than you don't like the Epic store.

You're also wrong about the PC being different. It makes no difference to Ubisoft if they put their games on the PC or consoles. They want to sell games and make money just like anyone else. Was Destiny on Steam? Is Fallout 76? So of course they are going to try and do it themsleves but smaller publishers don't reallt have that luxury so they go to Steam because that's their best chance at properity. So why is FFVII Remake on PS4 different than Hayes on Epic? They are both games supported by publishers looking for the best deal. Does the PS4 offer the best expereince possible and give you all the features and customer support above all others?

You still didn't give me any reason to like Valve more if they don't make as many games. Great, they have a place for third party. Still doesn't show me Valve is any better than Epic when it comes to making games.
Your bias is showing dude. Valve at the moment does more for me as someone who plays on PC than any other company on the planet. Just because they don't do anything that benefits you directly doesn't mean they don't do anything. Ignoring the stuff they do to be smug about how Valve is not better than Epic is a pretty cheap trick.