Jason Kingsley: Epic is "paying through the nose" to build its store

RF Switch

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,363
If Epic is throwing enough money at devs to reduce the risk of their game not making a profit I can’t blame any of them.
 

funky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,741
And honestly with developers complaining about how they are making less money on Steam thse days I cant blame a dev for taking Epics money.

Valve has created a bit of a mess and Epic can use it.

 

Paul

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,277
At least they’re honest that they did it for the cash, rather than peddling the usual bullshit about it being a ‘superior experience for consumers’.
This. Honesty goes a long way. I am not gonna fault developers for taking ton of money (even if it is not free - it does result in a reputation hit and possible lower sales) but please don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
 

khamakazee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,456
If I decide to buy Rainbow Six Siege on uPlay, I don't also have to spend four hundred dollars for the privilege of using uPlay. I can just buy whatever games are only on a given store front and get everything else on the one that lets me play games with a Dualshock 4 without fiddling with a second program.
Some take exception to the , it's just another launcher replies. I myself have way more issue with third party exclusvity on game consoles but some don't like talking about that thinking its totally different when to me it isn't. You are either fine with exclusvity or you're not, there is no waffling because it suits you better.

Anyways the best scenario here is Epic making their store much better and to stop the deals whose intent is to just block the game coming to Steam.

valve just releases a game a few weeks ago. epic last released a game a few years ago.

valve supports multiple games. epic just supports one game.
Sorry, which game is that? It's pretyy clear they have no intentions of making games like they used to but I am hopeful about new VR games.

I explained you the difference already and you come with the same bad comparisons.
Bad comparisons or just examples you don't approve of? I already explained to you they do in fact work, I bought Hayes so there is one example right there.

Your bias is showing dude. Valve at the moment does more for me as someone who plays on PC than any other company on the planet. Just because they don't do anything that benefits you directly doesn't mean they don't do anything. Ignoring the stuff they do to be smug about how Valve is not better than Epic is a pretty cheap trick.
I never said they weren't doing anything. I said they are not doing what they used to which is make games I am interested in because the criticism was Epic wasn't curating titles and just wants to use its resources to get third party away from Steam. We in my eyes Valve seems quite happy just taking money from third party sales and not using it towards game development.
 

AJ_Wings

Member
Oct 31, 2017
435
And honestly with developers complaining about how they are making less money on Steam thse days I cant blame a dev for taking Epics money.

Valve has created a bit of a mess and Epic can use it.

No can deny Valve's screw up in the latest sale but the type of games the developers that were interviewed in this piece make won't even be accepted by Epic in the first place.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,226
I'm also going to guess that Strange Brigade bombing had something to do with this. I doubt that Epic Store's "visibility" is going to help much. Zombie games do seem to do well no matter where they release though (see World War Z)
 

More Butter

Member
Jun 12, 2018
861
More money to devs is good but a more fractured, platform driven PC gaming space doesn’t sound great. I have no idea how to feel about this
 
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abracadaver

abracadaver

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,290
What's so absurd about this exclusivity approach is I guess most developers won't even think about voluntary putting their games on EGS now because they would miss the chance of Epic coming around and paying them money to do so.
 

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,915
Austria
And honestly with developers complaining about how they are making less money on Steam thse days I cant blame a dev for taking Epics money.

Valve has created a bit of a mess and Epic can use it.

"Valve has treated the developers bad that we won't allow on our store in the first place!"
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,235
You would think Epic would shovel some money in the launcher itself etc.They seem quite slow on that front, games are important but could do with faster iteration elsewhere.
 

khamakazee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,456
More money to devs is good but a more fractured, platform driven PC gaming space doesn’t sound great. I have no idea how to feel about this
It's one of the downsides to a free and open market. The upside of course is no fee to play online so it all depends on how much you resent multiple launchers.

dota underlords. but that probably doesn't count for some reason.
That and Artifact might count for you but those aren't the type of games that I loved about Valve.
 

cowbanana

Member
Feb 2, 2018
2,429
Denmark
I like the honesty here, though I've never had interest in their games. But it shows just how much money Epic is throwing around. I'm not touching EGS and I'm taking notes of the devs who take the money hat and go exclusive showing that it's all about the money for them.
 

dabri

Member
Nov 2, 2017
646
You’d think some of that money would actually be spent on the development of that barebones, slapdash piece of shit store.
It is but Epic is notorious for trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to implementing functionality that could simply be purchased as an existing toolset.
There are key tech leads that see it as a waste of money when it could be developed in house. I have a feeling this is whats holding up key store functionality.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,947
Some take exception to the , it's just another launcher replies. I myself have way more issue with third party exclusvity on game consoles but some don't like talking about that thinking its totally different when to me it isn't. You are either fine with exclusvity or you're not, there is no waffling because it suits you better.

Anyways the best scenario here is Epic making their store much better and to stop the deals whose intent is to just block the game coming to Steam.



Sorry, which game is that? It's pretyy clear they have no intentions of making games like they used to but I am hopeful about new VR games.



Bad comparisons or just examples you don't approve of? I already explained to you they do in fact work, I bought Hayes so there is one example right there.



I never said they weren't doing anything. I said they are not doing what they used to which is make games I am interested in because the criticism was Epic wasn't curating titles and just wants to use its resources to get third party away from Steam. We in my eyes Valve seems quite happy just taking money from third party sales and not using it towards game development.
Your use of “games I am interested in” is pretty telling here, but then I have no idea what any of this has to do with this topic.
 

deadman322

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,096
It's one of the downsides to a free and open market. The upside of course is no fee to play online so it all depends on how much you resent multiple launchers.



That and Artifact might count for you but those aren't the type of games that I loved about Valve.
"i don't care about this thing so it doesn't count" is basically a meme on this board now.
 

Kyougar

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,724
And honestly with developers complaining about how they are making less money on Steam thse days I cant blame a dev for taking Epics money.

Valve has created a bit of a mess and Epic can use it.

-
- the wishlist thing was overreacting to a thing that happens with EVERY big Sale. Customers look at their wishlist more often when there is a big sale. Either they don't know why they added the game, the game wasn't purchased for some years because they didn't care, or the game doesn't get discounted enough, so they finally deleted their game from the wishlist.

- if your game doesn't make money on the Steam store, it isn't good enough or doesn't have a big enough audience. There are already indies and 1-man developers who sold more copies on Steam in 2019 than the biggest success story, we heard of, on the Epic store.
 

Razlo

Member
Oct 31, 2017
186
Hopefully Epic keep the pressure on, at least long enough for Valve to feel the need to adjust Steam's rev share.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,165
Sweden
this is a good time for smaller independent developers to make some money so they can survive a bit longer. so while egs exclusivity is shitty in some ways, it's also a positive in others
 

HaremKing

Member
Dec 20, 2018
521
I've never heard of Zombie Army 1-3, so I don't at all fault a developer for going after money that Epic is handing out like crazy. Especially when they state flat out "we'll take some of their money, thanks"
 

flyingman

Banned
Apr 16, 2019
1,169
this is a good time for smaller independent developers to make some money so they can survive a bit longer. so while egs exclusivity is shitty in some ways, it's also a positive in others
I dont think surviving for more short time is way to go. Especially doing very bad to your customers.
I Mean sure if it was announced as egs exclusive i dont have problem , but those games who pulled from steam to egs will have serious / franchises problems moving on . I dont think gamers will care for their next shit anymore.
There are huge tons of games out there
 

funky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,741
-
- the wishlist thing was overreacting to a thing that happens with EVERY big Sale. Customers look at their wishlist more often when there is a big sale. Either they don't know why they added the game, the game wasn't purchased for some years because they didn't care, or the game doesn't get discounted enough, so they finally deleted their game from the wishlist.

- if your game doesn't make money on the Steam store, it isn't good enough or doesn't have a big enough audience. There are already indies and 1-man developers who sold more copies on Steam in 2019 than the biggest success story, we heard of, on the Epic store.
That story highlighted issues bigger then the summer sale mess. Like how changes in Steams diacoverability has seen developers sales crator since the switch flipped.

The steam sale mess just made that worse as these devs hoped they would see their normal summer sale bump after getting by on 8 months of lower sales. (They didnt)

Now you got a bunch of hungry indie devs. And yeah. If Epic sees this as a chance to cherry pick some of the best ones and toss some money their way I'm not gonna say I blame anyone on that side.


Epic tossing money at crowd funded games is still scumming just in case anyone brings that. Not cool. They should stop doing that.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,438
Eastern US
I like the honesty here, though I've never had interest in their games. But it shows just how much money Epic is throwing around. I'm not touching EGS and I'm taking notes of the devs who take the money hat and go exclusive showing that it's all about the money for them.
I am doing the same. It's good that the guy is upfront, bit at the same time, that company is going on the "GamePass, deep sale on Steam or never" list.

I wonder about actual sales of a lot of these Epic exclusives. What happens if Epic doesn't pony up cash for the next games but customers remember dev's BS?
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,640
Correction: Epic’s spending a lot of microtransaction money.
I'm also going to guess that Strange Brigade bombing had something to do with this. I doubt that Epic Store's "visibility" is going to help much. Zombie games do seem to do well no matter where they release though (see World War Z)
Strange Brigade was multiplatform. It just failed to do as well as WWZ, likely because it just doesn’t look nearly as good.

I came close to buying it during the Steam sale, but ultimately felt that it was Zombie Army with a different cost of paint.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,165
Sweden
I dont think surviving for more short time is way to go. Especially doing very bad to your customers.
I Mean sure if it was announced as egs exclusive i dont have problem , but those games who pulled from steam to egs will have serious / franchises problems moving on . I dont think gamers will care for their next shit anymore.
There are huge tons of games out there
that would depend on how large a fraction of the pc audience really gets outraged about these deals. it could be a vocal minority that wouldn't affect future sales much. also, for developers releasing games on consoles as well, losing some buyers on pc may be worth it for some immediate cash. will be interesting to see how things go
 

WarRock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,837
Chris compared the competition to the ancient rivalry of Sony and Microsoft in the console space, particularly when it gets "too far out of whack" like the runaway success of the PlayStation 2, which many argue led to complacency with the PlayStation 3.
ancient rivalry of Sony and Microsoft in the console space
goddammit
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,640
Hopefully Epic keep the pressure on, at least long enough for Valve to feel the need to adjust Steam's rev share.
And to balance that out, take away all of the features they offer it’s users for free that Sony and Nintendo charge for, as well as the ones they and Epic don’t have.

That would be fair right?

Once Epic takes over they’re going to start charging for online and cloud services anyways. Then the apologists can tow the corporate line that these fees are needed to keep that revenue split going. We’ll get the excuse of console makers do it, so it’s okay for PC players to pay.
 

khamakazee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,456
Your use of “games I am interested in” is pretty telling here, but then I have no idea what any of this has to do with this topic.
"i don't care about this thing so it doesn't count" is basically a meme on this board now.
I don't care about battle royale games, so I guess that mean Epic hasn't made any new games, either.
So because you dont like those games they dont count? Talk about bad faith arguments
So you're telling me we never heard any complaints in the past from EA or Ubisoft or Microsoft about GaaS type of games or are you really trying to suggest Valve is off-limits to cristism, which is it?

As I said before, my original comment was in response to someone speaking about Epic and their lack of making games and insdtead just moneyhatting third party.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,391
I would imagine so. They’re trying to do battle with a behemoth in the space, in a very short time frame. That’s gotta be expensive. Maybe it’ll work out for them if this initial flurry is successful.
 

z1ggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,376
Argentina
So you're telling me we never heard any complaints in the past from EA or Ubisoft or Microsoft about GaaS type of games or are you really trying to suggest Valve is off-limits to cristism, which is it?

As I said before, my original comment was in response to someone speaking about Epic and their lack of making games and insdtead just moneyhatting third party.
No, im telling you to stop lying. Valve makes games, you just dont like them.
 

thebishop

Member
Nov 10, 2017
1,336
I don't begrudge them for taking the pay day, but I'm not gonna buy their game or anyones game on EGS as long as it lags so far behind Steam.

Even Fortnite is more fun to play on PS4 because of the party system than through Epics primitive gaming portal.