Jason Kingsley: Epic is "paying through the nose" to build its store

Neudd

Member
Oct 31, 2017
36
Well he’s honest, can’t say I blame them either. Jason has a really cool medieval history series on YouTube that’s worth checking out, he seems like a decent guy.
 

Razlo

Member
Oct 31, 2017
186
User Warned: Trolling
And to balance that out, take away all of the features they offer it’s users for free that Sony and Nintendo charge for, as well as the ones they and Epic don’t have.

That would be fair right?
Steam Defense Force can slow their roll. If you think Valve asks for the percentage they do because of those features, you're a bit mad. Valve needed some serious competition to improve, and I'm glad they have it. If they choose not to be more developer friendly, than I'm happy hoping success on EGS.
 

sheaaaa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
713
Much respect for this guy going straight to "we got paid", instead of the bullshit the likes of Supergiant and Klei and everyone else is peddling.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,165
Sweden
if this is going to be the new normal, epic had better get basic functionality working

if the store had all the features that could be reasonably expected, i bet not as many people would see red when they pay for exclusivity
 

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,915
Austria
Steam Defense Force can slow their roll. If you think Valve asks for the percentage they do because of those features, you're a bit mad. Valve needed some serious competition to improve, and I'm glad they have it. If they choose not to be more developer friendly, than I'm happy hoping success on EGS.
You think not letting games on your storefront because they look "bad" is developer friendly?
 

Shaneus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,561
Steam Defense Force can slow their roll. If you think Valve asks for the percentage they do because of those features, you're a bit mad. Valve needed some serious competition to improve, and I'm glad they have it. If they choose not to be more developer friendly, than I'm happy hoping success on EGS.
So "developer friendly" is purely cut of sales and not at all related to features like controller support, community hubs, achievements, badges, Steam Workshop, or anything like that.

Righteo.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,640
Steam Defense Force can slow their roll. If you think Valve asks for the percentage they do because of those features, you're a bit mad. Valve needed some serious competition to improve, and I'm glad they have it. If they choose not to be more developer friendly, than I'm happy hoping success on EGS.
Improve what? Name three things Epic offers that Steam doesn’t.

I’ll wait. Or are you one of those who don’t use the platform, but feel the need to chime in with the tired old Epic defense?

Edit: Oh look, a new account. Shocker.
 
Oct 31, 2017
2,312
I'd pretend this made me decide to skip their game, but in all honesty I never heard of it and after watching some E3 footage I'll have to admit I wouldn't ever consider buying this in the first place.
...So congrats for the free money, I guess?
 

deadman322

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,096
So you're telling me we never heard any complaints in the past from EA or Ubisoft or Microsoft about GaaS type of games or are you really trying to suggest Valve is off-limits to cristism, which is it?

As I said before, my original comment was in response to someone speaking about Epic and their lack of making games and insdtead just moneyhatting third party.
complaining about something is not the same as acting like something doesn't exist just because you don't care about it.
 

Stygr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,925
Steam Defense Force can slow their roll. If you think Valve asks for the percentage they do because of those features, you're a bit mad. Valve needed some serious competition to improve, and I'm glad they have it. If they choose not to be more developer friendly, than I'm happy hoping success on EGS.
lmao at this post
"developer friendly" sure buddy, keep believing in that.
 

merf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
311
Paying to get games removed from Steam is not competition.

It is eliminating competition.

Competition requires consumers to have a choice. Epic are removing choices.
I'm just messing around. Read (and reposted in the PC Gaming thread this morning) a quote from the EIC of EDGE Magazine that attributes the Steam Labs content to Epic's presence, so at this point people are obviously just repeating the Competition mantra even though they know it's not at all the case. It's just propaganda.
 

Harlequin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,276
Well, he's honest about it. I can respect that. I don't really mind devs taking the cash so long as they don't try to sell it as sth other than a financially motivated decision (and so long as they don't make their crowdfunded games exclusive after promising their backers Steam copies or spring the exclusivity on people a week or so before release). Most people saying devs shouldn't take these deals merely because exclusives are bad are frankly full of shit. If you were in their shoes, you'd be accepting those deals, too. That doesn't, of course, excuse Epic being so behind on basic store features and whether Epic offering the money in the first place is a good thing is certainly debatable but yeah, people shouldn't blame devs for taking the cheque.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,750
This level of honesty is refreshing.

"We did it because we took the bribe. So what?"
 

nynt9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,432
In the short term, this makes perfect sense for developers. They get guaranteed money that recoups their spend on development. However, I am curious about long term. Let’s say they want to make Zombie Army 5. Fewer people will have bought 4 than if it were available on all stores, so that will stunt the series’ audience acquisition. So they will have to spend more on marketing 5, and they will be more dependent on an Epic moneyhat for their new title to succeed. And what if epic decides not to find ZA5? Then the developers will have ended up doing long term damage to their brand and will need to spend more money to stay afloat.

A one time cash infusion is nice, but in the end you want to sell your game to as many people as possible for the long term. You can’t keep relying on papa Sweeney forever.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,421
lmao at this post
"developer friendly" sure buddy, keep believing in that.
Remember that time Epic rejected a fantastic game with 86 metacritic because even though it's an amazing game, Epic sees no value in games that cannot be used as a tool to attempt to get one over on Steam, and the game was already available on Steam?

Epic doesn't care about third party games beyond the extent to which they can be used as ammunition against Valve.

I'm just messing around. Read (and reposted in the PC Gaming thread this morning) a quote from the EIC of EDGE Magazine that attributes the Steam Labs content to Epic's presence, so at this point people are obviously just repeating the Competition mantra even though they know it's not at all the case. It's just propaganda.
Oh right. Yeah, your post was in line with extremely flawed arguments some posters like to make.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,979
USA USA USA
In the short term, this makes perfect sense for developers. They get guaranteed money that recoups their spend on development. However, I am curious about long term. Let’s say they want to make Zombie Army 5. Fewer people will have bought 4 than if it were available on all stores, so that will stunt the series’ audience acquisition. So they will have to spend more on marketing 5, and they will be more dependent on an Epic moneyhat for their new title to succeed. And what if epic decides not to find ZA5? Then the developers will have ended up doing long term damage to their brand and will need to spend more money to stay afloat.

A one time cash infusion is nice, but in the end you want to sell your game to as many people as possible for the long term. You can’t keep relying on papa Sweeney forever.
that's what I've been saying since the beginning! it's such a short term move in the grand scheme of things
 

Razlo

Member
Oct 31, 2017
186
Improve what? Name three things Epic offers that Steam doesn’t.

I’ll wait. Or are you one of those who don’t use the platform, but feel the need to chime in with the tired old Epic defense?

Edit: Oh look, a new account. Shocker.
New account? What nonsense are you on about? I really don't care about whether it's EGS, or some other store. Just happy devs are getting better deals.
 

Yunyo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,407
Hey at least he's being straight about taking the money rather than talking out the side of his mouth.
 

GrantDaNasty

Member
Oct 27, 2017
358
I’m not necessarily buying into Epic’s bid into the marketplace, but I appreciate honesty at least.

Epic wants to be a dominant force in this ecosystem, they’re putting that Fortnite/Tencent money to use.


They were NEVER in it to make developers or user lives easier, these are just sticking points they use to try and claim the top, once they do - their tune will change, as they won’t need to fight as hard for it.
 

thebishop

Member
Nov 10, 2017
1,336
Steam Defense Force can slow their roll. If you think Valve asks for the percentage they do because of those features, you're a bit mad. Valve needed some serious competition to improve, and I'm glad they have it. If they choose not to be more developer friendly, than I'm happy hoping success on EGS.
As a user I don't really care if Valve needs 30% to build out their features or if they really only need 5% and they're pocketing the rest. That's between them and the publishers. If it was easy to build Steam, then by all means let EA, Ubi, Activision, GOG and Epic match them. Some of these "competitors" are nearly 10 years old and haven't added anything significant to their services in that time other than UI polish.
 

olag

Member
Oct 28, 2017
349
My opinion on devs going full epic remains the same. If your gonna do it be upfront about why youre going there. Dont start spouting bullshit otherwise I just wont respect/believe anything you say regardless.
 

alr1ght

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,856
Epic to developers: Have a shit load of money
Epic to gamers: Eat shit, we will force you to use our store

I like that this dude is honest about it, but I'm still not buying anything there.
 

asagami_

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,482
Mexico
What this dev/publishers and others who are accepting the money don't know, and they will learn something eventually: they need costumers and goodwill toward them. I worked at retail, so the mantra "costumers are the key" is bullshit and I don't accept it, but you can't deny you need to build your audience organically. That's why From Software is so succeful, because they listened their audience, improved through the years and now their customers follow them even if the game was published by Bandai Namco or Activision.

I think that From Software are some of the few devs who would sell games exclusive at EGS, because a large percentage of their audience would follow them, but I think From and their respective partner publishers know better it's not a good idea erode the good image From have, because it take years to build it, but just a small span of time to destroy it.
 

daxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,285
At least they're relatively honest rather than trying to spin it as an absolute plus for the players.

I'm all for developers getting a bigger piece of the pie, but if it's at my expense then I don't have to put up with it either. There's a reason these devs are only getting paid for exclusivity rather than to support the store by being on it. This isn't philanthropy. So if they're acting in their self-interest, there's nothing wrong with players acting in their own self-interest as well -- no allegiances or whatever necessary.
 
Last edited:

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,979
USA USA USA
i stumbled upon this the other day and what i want to know, and someone should ask him on twitter because I don't have one of those things, is why is Timothy D Sweeney STEALING 4 percent of profit that these indies earned

according to this article from a few years ago: https://www.pcgamesn.com/steam-revenue-cut-tim-sweeney

“The game market system is pretty unfair,” Sweeney explained at a keynote address as part of Gamescom’s Devcom. “All of the app stores take 30% [of revenue per transaction]. That’s strange, because Mastercard and Visa can do a transfer for three dollars.” Sweeney also gives the example of a hundred million dollar transaction that just took place with Bitcoin, with a total transaction cost of just a couple of cents.

To name names, both Steam and GOG take 30% of your money when you buy a game on their platforms. Given the minimal costs to them, Sweeney reckons there’s no reason for such a high cut – even if it is a better deal than devs would get at a physical store.

“CDN [Content Distribution Network] Value is one percent of your revenue,” Sweeney says. Given this, “it’s very difficult to see that app stores need more than seven to eight percent of revenue. I think you could quite easily run an app store on [a cut of that size] and still make a significant profit. They’re not really helping any more.”

he's already making a "significant profit" at 8% so why is he skimming 4 more off the top? he's not helping any more!
 

Phil me in

Member
Nov 22, 2018
519
It’s funny just how bad these games sell on EGS yet devs are willing to do it for that short term cash.

Metro was a biggish release and was a disaster sales wise on egs.

The pc gaming community has already pushed back against it, it’s dead. Epic should have just offered games at lower prices to compete and released their own exclusives if they want it to grow.

If epic stopped their bullshit and released a new UT to their story I’d definitely buy it.
 

Razlo

Member
Oct 31, 2017
186
It’s funny just how bad these games sell on EGS yet devs are willing to do it for that short term cash.

Metro was a biggish release and was a disaster sales wise on egs.

The pc gaming community has already pushed back against it, it’s dead. Epic should have just offered games at lower prices to compete and released their own exclusives if they want it to grow.

If epic stopped their bullshit and released a new UT to their story I’d definitely buy it.
The PC gaming community pushed back against Steam when it launched too. People eventually gave up on being mad about that platform. We'll see what time, added features, etc does here.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,421
The PC gaming community pushed back against Steam when it launched too. People eventually gave up on being mad about that platform. We'll see what time, added features, etc does here.
That's extremely revisionist.

People pushed back against Digital Distribution in general, not against Steam specifically.

Digital distribution is not a new thing now. There's no excuse for Epic store missing extremely basic features that Steam has had for over a decade. Epic store is extremely below the industry standard in terms of functionality and features.

Valve have spent the last 15 years earning people's trust with an extremely customer-centric approach, and lots of pioneering features.

During this time Epic accused PC gamers of just being pirates, and stopped releasing games on PC.

PC gaming is now a booming business, and Valve had a large hand in that. Now Epic want a piece of the pie, but are offering consumers absolutely nothing of value.