Jason Kingsley: Epic is "paying through the nose" to build its store

z1ggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,376
Argentina
Digital distribution is not a new thing now. There's no excuse for Epic store missing extremely basic features that Steam has had for over a decade. Epic store is extremely below the industry standard in terms of functionality and features.
Specially when MS releases Xbox app thats leagues ahead of EGS in terms of features and service.
 

Olimar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26
New York, NY
Heh, it's refreshing to read a developer's comments so candidly phrased like that. I wish more would take that blunt approach.

It will be interesting to see the dynamic of game sales once more time has passed. I am assuming that developers are treating the Epic Games Store launches as more of a 'soft launch' than anything. The real launch happens once they can get it out on whatever platforms they so choose on the PC. By then enough time has passed to work on any major bugs, crashes, or inconsistencies.

The biggest example of this will be Remedy's AAA title Control. I see borderline almost no promotion of the game on Epic Store's frontpage desipte that being one of the bigger titles to launch soon. Once it launches, I am interested to see how the marketing goes over on the PC side. I'm also interested to see if more users pick it up on Steam then on EGS, especially if the game reviews well.
 

aeolist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,243
Heh, it's refreshing to read a developer's comments so candidly phrased like that. I wish more would take that blunt approach.

It will be interesting to see the dynamic of game sales once more time has passed. I am assuming that developers are treating the Epic Games Store launches as more of a 'soft launch' than anything. The real launch happens once they can get it out on whatever platforms they so choose on the PC. By then enough time has passed to work on any major bugs, crashes, or inconsistencies.

The biggest example of this will be Remedy's AAA title Control. I see borderline almost no promotion of the game on Epic Store's frontpage desipte that being one of the bigger titles to launch soon. Once it launches, I am interested to see how the marketing goes over on the PC side. I'm also interested to see if more users pick it up on Steam then on EGS, especially if the game reviews well.
isn't control under the standard 1 year EGS exclusive agreement? we won't see steam sales for a while
 

WarRock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,837
Much respect for this guy going straight to "we got paid", instead of the bullshit the likes of Supergiant and Klei and everyone else is peddling.
How did Klei peddle bullshit lmao
They even are going to have EA on Steam, and whoever buys the game in one store will be gifted it in the other during both Alpha and EA period.
 

olag

Member
Oct 28, 2017
349
The PC gaming community pushed back against Steam when it launched too. People eventually gave up on being mad about that platform. We'll see what time, added features, etc does here.
Of coarse, your totally right. Gamers eventually give up and use whatever's given to them....cant wait to get home and exclusively use the old windows old store. Come to think of it, if you were correct shouldn't the current pc store front landscape look more ubiquitous?After all if time is all thats needed and bad press inevitably fades should origin be just as big as steam?
 

Mato

Member
Oct 27, 2017
555
If it makes any difference, every time they are blowing through their nose I dislike them a little more.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,421
Of coarse, your totally right. Gamers eventually give up and use whatever's given to them....cant wait to get home and exclusively use the old windows old store. Come to think of it, if you were correct shouldn't the current pc store front landscape look more ubiquitous?After all if time is all thats needed and bad press inevitably fades should origin be just as big as steam?
Don't mind me, just logging into GFWL to pop some achievements, and pay my Xbox Live Gold subscription to be allowed to play PC games online.
 

Olimar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26
New York, NY
isn't control under the standard 1 year EGS exclusive agreement? we won't see steam sales for a while
Yes, we won't see Steam sales figures for a long, long time... However, one year is more than enough time on the patch cycle to add new content and fully flesh out a title before throwing it on another marketplace.

I have a feeling that EGS might help indies, but may squander AAA studios. I'm interested to see the dichotomy.
 

thebishop

Member
Nov 10, 2017
1,336
Before some posters complain, here's a obligatory gif

Which is why it's so weird we get posters and industry commentators browbeating us and calling us crybabies for not buying this crap. Everything is allowed on the supply side, but the demand side (aka players) are expected to accept it and keep paying. We're even expected to feel good that publisher CEOs get a better deal with Epic.
 

GhostofWar

Member
Apr 5, 2019
28
This seems like the perfect deal for those devs, these zombie army games have always been discount fodder. So they take a big fat cheque from epic then get their cake to eat aswell by dropping it on steam and start their 80% off specials every 2 months.
 

closer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,523
This seems like the perfect deal for those devs, these zombie army games have always been discount fodder. So they take a big fat cheque from epic then get their cake to eat aswell by dropping it on steam and start their 80% off specials every 2 months.
honestly never considered the genre of "ppl will probably buy this a lot when it's discounted", shout out to garry's mod and killing floor. if you are firmly defined by this the epic store is such a good fucking deal lol
 

weebro

Member
Nov 7, 2018
811
Good, Steam has been an oligopoly long enough. Its about time someone gave them some competition and lit a fire under their ass to get their shit together.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,421
Good, Steam has been an oligopoly long enough. Its about time someone gave them some competition and lit a fire under their ass to get their shit together.
I'm not sure if you understand the word oligopoly. A single company cannot be an oligopoly. An oligopoly is a market state that requires more than one company to apply.

If it were just one company, it would be a monopoly (but Valve obviously do not have a monopoly either).

More accurate would be "market leader" or to say that Valve have a "dominant market position". But they do not meet the criteria of monopoly, and I don't particularly think that PC games digital distribution meets the criteria of oligopoly, either.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,226
Specially when MS releases Xbox app thats leagues ahead of EGS in terms of features and service.
While Epic may be shitty, Microsoft still has the worst PC store platform. Its only redeeming feature is the Game Pass subscription and I wonder how long that will last as it's still doing aggressive user acquisition with great deals. Microsoft still forces games to be installed in locked folders that the user can't access even with admin rights.
 

BrutalInsane

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,451
Cool Rebellion, so since you’re getting Epic money to make PC gaming worse, you don’t need mine. It’s a shame tho, I love your games!
 

GodofWine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,452
Without massive investment, theyd never be able get market share from Steam. If you want a viable BIG competitor to a dug in psuedo monopoly, and dont want dev's using their own launchers, someone was going to need pony up for exclusivity deals.

No one is leaving steam just because a store is well built
 

weebro

Member
Nov 7, 2018
811
I'm not sure if you understand the word oligopoly. A single company cannot be an oligopoly. An oligopoly is a market state that requires more than one company to apply.

If it were just one company, it would be a monopoly (but Valve obviously do not have a monopoly either).

More accurate would be "market leader" or to say that Valve have a "dominant market position". But they do not meet the criteria of monopoly, and I don't particularly think that PC games digital distribution meets the criteria of oligopoly, either.
Steam isn't an oligopoly but PC gaming sure is. More competition is good.
 

daxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,285
Specially when MS releases Xbox app thats leagues ahead of EGS in terms of features and service.
When's that happening? :P

I don't know if it's much better tbh. The current app is super basic, UWP still sucks, the games on it have issues, and the entire thing is only salvaged because it's so damn cheap.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,438
Eastern US
How did Klei peddle bullshit lmao
They even are going to have EA on Steam, and whoever buys the game in one store will be gifted it in the other during both Alpha and EA period.
They bullshitted that EGS was a great place to do EA. Without forums, proper support for multiple versions, tiny audience and so on. But ok, go ahead.

Personally I lost my respect for that studio and instead of buying their game at launch will only get it at a deep discount if at all.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,421
Steam isn't an oligopoly but PC gaming sure is. More competition is good.
Epic are seeking to reduce competition by getting games removed from competing stores.

What have Valve done to prevent new entries into the market? If Valve had real power to do so, and were seeking oligopolistic market control, wouldn't they have kept out new entrants like Humble, Minecraft, itch.io, or even Epic.
 

WarRock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,837
Steam isn't an oligopoly but PC gaming sure is. More competition is good.
What are you even talking about? There's more digital storefronts on PC than on consoles.

They bullshitted that EGS was a great place to do EA. Without forums, proper support for multiple versions, tiny audience and so on. But ok, go ahead.

Personally I lost my respect for that studio and instead of buying their game at launch will only get it at a deep discount if at all.
They literally are doing EA on Steam. Why are you pissed they are doing an EA of an EA on EGS lol
 

aeolist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,243
Without massive investment, theyd never be able get market share from Steam. If you want a viable BIG competitor to a dug in psuedo monopoly, and dont want dev's using their own launchers, someone was going to need pony up for exclusivity deals.

No one is leaving steam just because a store is well built
i think the main problem is that buying exclusives is kind of the only thing they're doing. if they bought exclusives and built their platform out to be less bare bones people would probably be less upset overall.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,806
Im amazed honestly at the overall attempt to try PC gamers like this overall. It never ends well. No matter how big the company is. Look at MS and GFWL...

But I appreciate at least someone admitting that its just about the cash. Not some sudden "Oh my god the revenue split!" or "Oh lord this particular store is just such a great fit for our game". Just raw moneyhats. Not that we didn't already know that, but yeah.
 

olag

Member
Oct 28, 2017
349
Without massive investment, theyd never be able get market share from Steam. If you want a viable BIG competitor to a dug in psuedo monopoly, and dont want dev's using their own launchers, someone was going to need pony up for exclusivity deals.

No one is leaving steam just because a store is well built
And ofcoarse its not like the console space their trying to emulate disproved that 3rd party timed exclusives bring in more users than their main competitors

But I actually agree with your second point, no one was gonna leave steam because of a well built store , but instead of providing a more organic market competitor which provided *both* customers and developers with more advantages whilst leveraging their treasure chest to invest in more studios and first party content, thereby gaining more customer good will which would have definitely reaped some large rewards down the line.

Epic has instead opted to target only titles and studios with proven market interest, attach themselves to already announced titles/made titles and in doing so are restricting the pc gming market than "saving it". Epic isnt some saviour that will push valve to get off its ass because at this rate valve doesnt need to move. From the sales numbers we know Epic is nowhere near to being a blip on their radar and with every pr blunder they maker it gets harder and harder for them to convince publishers and indies to agree to full exclusivity and they settle for timed exclusives instead.
 

erlim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,841
Los Angeles
I hope this bold and grandstanding attempt at bringing down the steam store doesn’t mess with the resourcing and development of a next gen unreal engine.
 
I still don't get the endgame. Are they going to buy every game out? The store is ass wipe and they already said they don't care about a "feature" war so that just leaves the games but since the whole epic ecosystem is ass juice, you would only really use the store for exclusives so what's the point?
 

Coolade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
252
I buy games on the epic store, and have no issues with the store currently. Any publisher running a business, especially if you're using the unreal engine would sign up for Epic first to save money. It's common sense so there's no reason to hate anyone for doing so.
 

svacina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,703
I buy games on the epic store, and have no issues with the store currently. Any publisher running a business, especially if you're using the unreal engine would sign up for Epic first to save money. It's common sense so there's no reason to hate anyone for doing so.
Well pack it up kids, it's common sense. Close the threads.
 

Peff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
690
I buy games on the epic store, and have no issues with the store currently. Any publisher running a business, especially if you're using the unreal engine would sign up for Epic first to save money. It's common sense so there's no reason to hate anyone for doing so.
There's plenty of reason to dislike someone who seeks to make the end user experience worse. You having no standards to that effect isn't particularly meaningful.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,606
I see some people arguing over the difference between exclusives on consoles and exclusives on PC. It has been explained many times before in similar threads that exclusives on consoles are effective because they force the customer to make a pretty definitive buying choice that costs hundreds of dollars. Without that element of vendor lock-in, which is completely absent on PC, moneyhatting exclusives is pointless because even if you do get a purchase from the customer you're still at square one when it comes to making your store the preferred choice for that customer.

Epic can moneyhat as many games as they want, they'll never get repeat customers unless unless they actually offer a better service or better prices than Steam.