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Otakukidd

The cutest v-tuber
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,615
So I have a question, people bring up it's only for launch window, but will 1st party Xbox games ever be able to utilize the ssd besides fast loading? All the games are going to be on PC to. So unless MS mandates ssds for PC, they will never be able design games around it, like world design.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,434
FIN
So I have a question, people bring up it's only for launch window, but will 1st party Xbox games ever be able to utilize the ssd besides fast loading? All the games are going to be on PC to. So unless MS mandates ssds for PC, they will never be able design games around it, like world design.

Mandating SSD wouldn't be that bad. It's 2020 and at some point developers just have to kill HDD as supported storage medium.

So yes, MS can 100% design 1st party titles around systems having SSD.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
8,634
Speculative, after-the-fact,-dedicated porting processes - what Witcher on Switch was - are one thing.

Accommodating a lower powered platform for day and date release with other versions is another.

I would be very hesitant to say that if Switch had been a part of the day one platform targets for the Witcher, that the game we ended up with would have been exactly the same. That that requirement would have had no impact on the game's development or the scope the devs went with.

I think here most people are talking about accommodating platforms for day and date release - not allocating resources after the fact to explore if a dedicated downport of a next-gen game will work or not, and releasing the game if it does. Which is the situation that happened with the Witcher on Switch. It is not proof, at all, of the easy scalability of games or the 'end' of the need to worry about performance targets when designing games.
No one knows the extent to which accommodating Switch on release would've fundamentally changed the game, if at all. It exists now, without sacrificing any core element of its design, so there is no reason to suggest that it would've been significantly different. The only question is if developers have the resources to invest in development from the get go. Doesn't mean any game is possible on any platform but next gen ambitions don't necessarily suffer from scaling on a weaker hardware.
 
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TreeMePls

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,258
So I have a question, people bring up it's only for launch window, but will 1st party Xbox games ever be able to utilize the ssd besides fast loading? All the games are going to be on PC to. So unless MS mandates ssds for PC, they will never be able design games around it, like world design.
If they dont then third party devs will once they move over to next gen exclusively. Min specs need to be raised at some point and SSDs will be the first ones to pop up
 

Beer Monkey

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,308
It's going to be pretty wild seeing all these types of experiences that are impossible on PC as there are no PC games that require SSD.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,996
The biggest facilitator of a different next-gen experience will be the SSDs.

Do you folks remember Far Cry 2? Do you remember the complaint that the vehicles were so slow? The vehicles were slow in Far Cry 2 because the game could not keep up with loading the world.

We can only speculate how that would impact other games. But if you look at a game like Days Gone, the bike is oddly slow in that game, and the game still has a lot of performance issues. Days Gone looks like it tries to mediate this issue with similar design to something like Destiny, wherein much of the world is cordoned off into smaller sections, giving each time to load as the player passes through.


Despite making the bike slow, and offering a relatively constrained open world setting, Days Gone still has issues with its performance, particularly as the bike becomes faster in the late-game areas.


On the PS5 those games could break free of those design limitations (hopefully). We could see faster and more realistic traversal in a title like Days Gone, with more realistic landscapes that didn't need to be stitched together in such an unnatural way.

If you're tied to old hardware, you can't change the game like that. You can make the game perform and look better, but you can't change the core design (e.g. the structure of the open world, or the speed of traversal). Which means that your titles are fundamentally being designed for old hardware.
The more I see ppl that would know comment on the SSDs, the more I'm getting excited.

Seeing devs speak out on the low about it tells me they are excited too.

But yeah, I think some ppl are under estimating just how much of a difference it can make. I can't wait.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,434
FIN
If they dont then third party devs will once they move over to next gen exclusively. Min specs need to be raised at some point and SSDs will be the first ones to pop up

HDD will be viable for 1-2 years still at least with 3rd party software because cross-gen period. After that? Smash that shit to pieces.

It's going to be pretty wild seeing all these types of experiences that are impossible on PC as there are no PC games that require SSD.

Yes there is, Star Citizen. For all its development issues that game is built around SSD.
 

Agent X

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,141
New Jersey
Going by what's in the OP, that statement doesn't negate the possibility of cross-gen titles from Sony.

That's true, and it's a point a lot of people here are forgetting. Sony continued making PS1 games after PS2 came out, they continued making PS2 games after PS3 came out, and they continued making PS3 games after PS4 came out. It's a safe bet they'll keep making PS4 games even after PS5 is released.

I sometimes despise the elitist air this forum is comprised of.

"as it should be", "the right approach" etc

as if to justify your new $500 purchase, the games you play can't be allowed to be enjoyed by more people on more affordable, older hardware.

See above. Sony is not abandoning the PS4. You'll be able to play the PS4 games on either PS4 or PS5. They'll simply have a separate group of games that are tailored to the PS5's abilities.

MS just sounds like they are stalling for time before their studios can hit the next gen titles. It feels like Sony simply is more ready because they planned better.

I believe this is the real reason for Microsoft's "stance"--they might not have enough true next-generation games ready for the launch.

Apparently, Microsoft still intends to move on to develop exclusive next-generation games after a year or two, so this stance isn't borne out of some imagined "pro-consumer" desire to extend long-lasting support to Xbox One owners and their aged hardware.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,736
No one knows the extent to which accommodating Switch on release would've fundamentally changed the game, if at all. It exists now, without sacrificing any core element of its design, so there is no reason to suggest that it would've been significantly different.

Of course we can't know the extent to which it would have been different - I'm just saying I think it would be. With the reality of deadlines and limited resources, throwing - say - a Switch into the mix for a day and date release will have an effect on how devs calibrate their aim, to play it 'safe' to make sure the game gets out the door on time. We're not at a point where devs can blindly do whatever they want, on any mix of device targets, without thinking about performance. If we were I'd agree it's a non-point, but we're not remotely there in the general case (even if we, perhaps, are in some cases).

If MS said - 'we're going to make games for next gen only from the get go, and we might do current gen versions of those games later if the game can fit' i.e. the Witcher 3 Switch analog - I don't think anyone would complain. Or at least, that Witcher/Switch point that keeps coming up would be more effective. But that's not what's on the table, or moreover, not what some are suggesting should be on the table, even beyond MS's timetable.
 
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Tribal24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,382
That's true, and it's a point a lot of people here are forgetting. Sony continued making PS1 games after PS2 came out, they continued making PS2 games after PS3 came out, and they continued making PS3 games after PS4 came out. It's a safe bet they'll keep making PS4 games even after PS5 is released.



See above. Sony is not abandoning the PS4. You'll be able to play the PS4 games on either PS4 or PS5. They'll simply have a separate group of games that are tailored to the PS5's abilities.



I believe this is the real reason for Microsoft's "stance"--they might not have enough true next-generation games ready for the launch.

Apparently, Microsoft still intends to move on to develop exclusive next-generation games after a year or two, so this stance isn't borne out of some imagined "pro-consumer" desire to extend long-lasting support to Xbox One owners and their aged hardware.

Yup this is what I think too.
 

Bundy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,931
That's true, and it's a point a lot of people here are forgetting. Sony continued making PS1 games after PS2 came out, they continued making PS2 games after PS3 came out, and they continued making PS3 games after PS4 came out. It's a safe bet they'll keep making PS4 games even after PS5 is released.
Of course Sony will keep making a few 1st party games here and there for the PS4 after the PS5 launch. See what they did when the PS4 launched. They still made a MLB The Show port for the PS3 and Vita. But the main focus will be on the PS5. Just what Sony always does when they start a new console gen. And that's just perfect!
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
8,634
If MS said - 'we're going to make games for next gen only from the get go, and we might do current gen versions of those games later if the game can fit' i.e. the Witcher 3 Switch analog - I don't think anyone would complain. Or at least, that Witcher/Switch point that keeps coming up would be more effective. But that's not what's on the table, or moreover, not what some are suggesting should be on the table, even beyond MS's timetable.
I'll give you another example. Crysis is still a poster child for whats possible if we remove weaker consoles from the equation and develop exclusively for PC. I won't use the console remaster to make a case here (which is the same situation as the Witcher 3 Switch port, I understand), rather the fact that the game on its absolute lowest settings scaled back to lowest end PC hardware as well, looked like crap but the core game design was intact, and that did not diminish the fact that at its best, the game was pushing the limits of PC hardware like no other game did at the time (or even now, save for Star Citizen).
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,341
Seattle
People really need to wait to see what Ms cross gen games look like before freaking out.

Of course many won't care, because it's about having arbitrary superiority over people who don't upgrade for them.
 

VanDoughnut

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,424
People really need to wait to see what Ms cross gen games look like before freaking out.

Of course many won't care, because it's about having arbitrary superiority over people who don't upgrade for them.

Or it's about wanting a next gen game for your next gen system? Letting the devs do all they can with the new tech?
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
You want them to make 2 different versions?
YES,, wait crunch... no.

Make the PS4 version of Dragon Quest 11, and the 3DS version, make them the same game. Also throw in the WiiU and Switch version? Uh yeah, launch them on the same date.

Stop updating the PS4, Xbox One, and Switch version of Warframe differently than the PC version. Update them all on the same date. Why is the Switch version always the last to be updated anyway??? Don't crunch though, I see Digital Extreme's live streams, they look like they are crunched all the time, under stress as a new big patch is coming out for the PC only (again all versions at the same time, get on that). We must protect Steve Sinclair, he was laying on the floor during Tenocon, let him rest in a real bed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,904
And what is this SSD stuff exactly?

Loading times would be nothing new to anyone playing games, 45 second loading screen instead of 15 seconds etc.

World streaming? Maybe if developers have had time to retool their engines around that, but I have my doubts.

But then I'm pretty cynical person to begin with.
No.

We're talking about the difference between squeezing through tight spaces to hide loading (HDD) and not having that at all in a game designed with a SSD. It would be a completely different designed level. You can't put the latter on the former.

The SSD will allow for different designs for levels and that cannot be scaled down to a far, far slower HDD. It would not be able to handle the speed at which everything occurs.

And this is just a single aspect of next gen.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,287
There seems to be a severe misunderstanding here about PC development & the ranges of devices on PC gaming. PC scaling exists *within a finite range*. Just because you can brute force HW to run something lower than the minimum required spec doesn't mean scaling limits don't exist. Just because a game can run on potato HW & a super GPU does not mean limits don't exist. The game was designed with that potato HW in mind. Limitations were placed on the scope in order to make sure it could run on the absolute minimum they provided.

Please stop calling later up-ports cross gen. That is not what a cross generational title is. A remaster is not cross gen. A port to new HW is not cross gen. Dark Cloud is not a cross gen game bc they ported it to PS4. It's just a PS2 game you can play on PS4.

Also, please stop using switch ports as examples of games being arbitrarily next gen only just because. Both TW3 & Doom run on respective minimum PC specs, and still required tons of effort to cut back everything possible to get them to run on the Switch. As impressive as those games are they still accounted for severely lower HW in their design. First party games on the other hand do not. God of War is likely an impossible switch port. It does not account for a minimum PC spec. It has one single spec it accounts for. There are things you can do in design when you can account for *every single device* the end product will be used on.

It's easy to say launch titles could've just ran on last gen with some elbow grease & a prayer before you see them. How about we exercise some caution & patience and see what's being presented before making such claims.

And as for 3rd party, aside from the general outcry of gamers to "drop cross gen already" very early this gen, you'd be surprised at the speed at which big 3rd party publishers made their first next gen only games

2014
- Ubisoft
2015
- EA
- WB
- Bethesda
- 2K
2016
- SE
- Bamco
- Activision/Blizzard
Excellent post!
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,341
Seattle
Or it's about wanting a next gen game for your next gen system? Letting the devs do all they can with the new tech?
Those games are rarely out anywhere near launch; we get games with next-gen graphics. Which a cross-gen game can accomplish.

If Sony blows us away with games that aren't even plausible on PS4 right off the bat I'll be pleasantly surprised and will have wished MS done the same thing. I expect like past generations games truly designed from the ground up for next-gen won't come out right away.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,932
the Netherlands
So I have a question, people bring up it's only for launch window, but will 1st party Xbox games ever be able to utilize the ssd besides fast loading? All the games are going to be on PC to. So unless MS mandates ssds for PC, they will never be able design games around it, like world design.
With the PS5 and XSX both having a SSD I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that most developers will start require SSDs for their games, even on PC. At one point the industry just has to move forward and ditch HDDs entirely.
 

AllChan7

Tries to be a positive role model
Member
Apr 30, 2019
3,670
People calling this move anti consumer after the support PS4 has recieved and will receive is baffling. As long as these games aren't some microtransactions loot box hell, I hardly see this as anti consumer.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
One idea I read for utilization of the PS5's SSD I thought was interesting was adding flying mounts in Horizon 2.

Both for insanely fast fast travel (think robotic super sonic jet) and also being able to use them for aerial attacks in large scale battles where draw distance, NPC count on the ground, lod etc would really matter for gameplay when you're flying from above.
I would like to see a Sucker Punch super hero game on PS5. Imagine how much more awesome a flash power would be. Go so fast you go bac..k ... in oh my god. A time travel game!!!! Dude!

Imagine it, change the whole open world to a different time depending on how hard you push your speed power, use the time hopping to solve puzzles. And I'm not talking about 3 days ago, or 1 year, though you could go to before a massive event that changed the look of the whole city, but I mean like 2000s, 1970's, 1800's in the same location with different building and designs.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,992
London
I'll give you another example. Crysis is still a poster child for whats possible if we remove weaker consoles from the equation and develop exclusively for PC. I won't use the console remaster to make a case here (which is the same situation as the Witcher 3 Switch port, I understand), rather the fact that the game on its absolute lowest settings scaled back to lowest end PC hardware as well, looked like crap but the core game design was intact, and that did not diminish the fact that at its best, the game was pushing the limits of PC hardware like no other game did at the time (or even now, save for Star Citizen).

Crysis isn't a good example because it was built to run on multiple configurations.
 

Radium217

Banned
Oct 31, 2019
1,833
Good reason for this. They will make games that actually showcase the generational leap. If you wanted a PS 4.5 version of Horizon 2 for example you are out of luck but if you want justification for why there is a next generation at all then Sony's approach works. It's not really about graphics anymore. That is expected. Sony wants to create games that are unexpected - you can see this with all the features like SSD and controller changes that they have revealed and it's reported that more of these features are yet to be revealed. This gen gave us a lot, there are still plenty titles to play etc but the whole point of a next gen is that we refresh the meaning of console gaming and look forward to new types of experiences and ways to play. I will own both PS4 Pro and PS5 and you can bet that I don't want an exclusive I have to be held back by a console I purchased like 5 years prior. That system has its catalogue.
 

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,587
With the PS5 and XSX both having a SSD I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that most developers will start require SSDs for their games, even on PC. At one point the industry just has to move forward and ditch HDDs entirely.
I think we'll see this a few years out from launch for sure especially for 3rd party games (and Microsoft I guess now too).

The only opportunity we really have to see the things that can be developed around these next generation SSDs in the shorter term will be PS5 exclusives.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,434
FIN
I think we'll see this a few years out from launch for sure especially for 3rd party games (and Microsoft I guess now too).

The only opportunity we really have to see the things that can be developed around these next generation SSDs in the shorter term will be PS5 exclusives.

What is this "next generation SSD"?

I keep hearing talk like that in context of PS5 because marketing they pushed, but do we have anything else? Any data?
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
The biggest facilitator of a different next-gen experience will be the SSDs.

Do you folks remember Far Cry 2? Do you remember the complaint that the vehicles were so slow? The vehicles were slow in Far Cry 2 because the game could not keep up with loading the world.

We can only speculate how that would impact other games. But if you look at a game like Days Gone, the bike is oddly slow in that game, and the game still has a lot of performance issues. Days Gone looks like it tries to mediate this issue with similar design to something like Destiny, wherein much of the world is cordoned off into smaller sections, giving each time to load as the player passes through.


Despite making the bike slow, and offering a relatively constrained open world setting, Days Gone still has issues with its performance, particularly as the bike becomes faster in the late-game areas.


On the PS5 those games could break free of those design limitations (hopefully). We could see faster and more realistic traversal in a title like Days Gone, with more realistic landscapes that didn't need to be stitched together in such an unnatural way.

If you're tied to old hardware, you can't change the game like that. You can make the game perform and look better, but you can't change the core design (e.g. the structure of the open world, or the speed of traversal). Which means that your titles are fundamentally being designed for old hardware.
The mounts in Dragon Age Inquisition were also hilariously slow, they even added speed lines to make it seem like they were doing something special. Now I know, I didn't think about that to be honest. I wonder if there's a PC mod to speed them up.
 
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Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
I hope every one can keep calm and of it ends up being that ps5 launch games are close to series x games that people eat crowd humbly and not be weird about it.
Yep, if proven, then I hope people here are sincere and are willing to alter their entrenched views on the matter.
 

VanDoughnut

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,424
Those games are rarely out anywhere near launch; we get games with next-gen graphics. Which a cross-gen game can accomplish.

If Sony blows us away with games that aren't even plausible on PS4 right off the bat I'll be pleasantly surprised and will have wished MS done the same thing. I expect like past generations games truly designed from the ground up for next-gen won't come out right away.

The point was ppl don't want to feel superior to older gen users like you claimed. Is that the only reason you think people are excited for a new gen? To feel superior?

Ppl want the tech to be pushed right away, out the gate. New tech is exciting and people want to see what it can do. This is why the launch and the launch year is exciting.

It's entirely plausible with the SSD first party studios will be ready to wow us within the launch year. I don't think it'll be long. Of course games will get better with time but I do expect the PS5 exclusives near launch to do things that aren't possible on current gen. That's a safe bet.
 

squidyj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,670
I honestly kind of hope PS5 crushes the Xbox family of devices in terms of sales this generation. A strong lead out of the gate establishing a market leader.

Making all your exclusive games cross-gen for what? up to 2 years? Launching with multiple SKUs? It all just seems like a series of hoops for Devs to jump through to try to get anything out of what was supposed to be a new baseline in hardware. If you're stuck supporting who knows how many platforms of various performance level how can you hope to take the best advantage of the new hardware? MS seems to be saying they don't give a shit as long as they can get all their users under the same tent which might be a good idea for Microsoft as a business but I don't think it helps me as a consumer and video game enthusiast much.
 

mentallyinept

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,403
One allows you to play games on a console you own now.

The other requires you to plump up $599 to play the games.

This is getting to the point where we are going to need Mod intervention with this stuff.

This is 100% console wars bullshit.

You don't know how much the system will cost, you don't know that the old system can run the games in question, you don't know anywhere near enough information to say this.
 

Philippo

Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
7,919
Considering the type of hardware leap we are going through (CPU, SSD) i think people will be surprised by what next-gen only games will be able to do out of the gate at PS Meeting.
The difference to current gen is going to be so much more than just graphics.
 

Windrunner

Sly
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,500
I really dislike how this issue has become so divisive.

Like yeah, as a day one buyer I would prefer to have lots of next-gen exclusives that really make use of the new hardware and I would rather that games like Halo Infinite not be held back by the OG Xbox One. However it's not the end of the world; cross-gen games have always been a thing especially in the first year or two of a system's life, this is nothing new. Some games will scale back on the visuals to get them running on the old systems (RoTTR), other games will be completely gutted (Mordor) or require significant retooling (Forza Horizon 2). We'll also get lots of 4K60 ports of previous generation games anyway.

There's no need for battle lines to be drawn up based on console preference and for those cross-generation games, you're going to be really glad to not be playing them on the old consoles when the Digital Foundry comparisons go up anyway.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,341
Seattle
The point was ppl don't want to feel superior to older gen users like you claimed. Is that the only reason you think people are excited for a new gen? To feel superior?

No, I said many, not all. I've literally seen people say as much, many people (mostly on Twitter.)

I want blow-me away next gen games right away too I'm just not expecting that.

I'm expecting to be super impressed with all of the games graphics either way. 1st or 3rd party, exclusive or not. And I expect some of the games I put the most time into will be cross gen.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,736
I'll give you another example. Crysis is still a poster child for whats possible if we remove weaker consoles from the equation and develop exclusively for PC. I won't use the console remaster to make a case here (which is the same situation as the Witcher 3 Switch port, I understand), rather the fact that the game on its absolute lowest settings scaled back to lowest end PC hardware as well, looked like crap but the core game design was intact, and that did not diminish the fact that at its best, the game was pushing the limits of PC hardware like no other game did at the time (or even now, save for Star Citizen).


If that's the case, clearly it wasn't pushing the limits of CPUs or memory systems, if it could scale all the way back to potatoes in that regard. I'm not sure what the point is though - that Crysis (or the Witcher, or whatever) can run on low end CPUs or whatnot, it follows that there's no game under the sun that could require the performance (cpu/memory side) of next gen hardware? Or that such games would be very rare? That Crysis or the Witcher are the cap on the performance requirements of the medium forevermore?

To me it's too pessimistic an idea to accept as is - that basically games are as sophisticated, on the game state/simulation side, as they'll ever get, or indeed, that that growth in sophistication actually ended some time ago. (I actually think there has been stagnancy in the current gen in this regard - the current console CPUs weren't a huge advance on the previous gen... but I think that stagnancy is dictated by the consoles and not that devs couldn't stretch out if enough more powerful hardware was out there).

That's the catch 22 also - if that hypothesis is true, then the CPU and memory and SSDs in the new consoles are relatively pointless, and that's where some of the biggest improvements in the upcoming gen lie. I don't think they are pointless, I hope not. I'm hopeful once devs can work with them at the low end, it'll let them do better stuff than they could previously do at the same (or less) dev cost.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
I really dislike how this issue has become so divisive.

Like yeah, as a day one buyer I would prefer to have lots of next-gen exclusives that really make use of the new hardware and I would rather that games like Halo Infinite not be held back by the OG Xbox One. However it's not the end of the world; cross-gen games have always been a thing especially in the first year or two of a system's life, this is nothing new. Some games will scale back on the visuals to get them running on the old systems (RoTTR), other games will be completely gutted (Mordor) or require significant retooling (Forza Horizon 2). We'll also get lots of 4K60 ports of previous generation games anyway.

There's no need for battle lines to be drawn up based on console preference and for those cross-generation games, you're going to be really glad to not be playing them on the old consoles when the Digital Foundry comparisons go up anyway.
Knowing that Halo, and maybe a lot of other Xbox games have been started with Xbox One in mind as well as a Xbox Series X version for Halo (announced by MS), I wouldn't want them to remove it from current gen consoles, that would be pretty messed up. I'm just surprised that they didn't plan to have anything at all ready, something I'm coming to terms with now that I realize they made a sort of commitment to gamepass, or xbox anywhere(? their xbox service). Then you have their Streaming Xbox thing that is coming out.

At the moment I'm just wondering why even have a console for this year and not make a even more advanced one in a year or two, the Xbox One X looks like it could hold them off a bit longer, but it is what it is, and they already announced Xbox Series X for this year.
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,207
Dark Space
So I have a question, people bring up it's only for launch window, but will 1st party Xbox games ever be able to utilize the ssd besides fast loading? All the games are going to be on PC to. So unless MS mandates ssds for PC, they will never be able design games around it, like world design.
Haven't the system requirements for PC games increased with every console generation? There is little reason for that to not apply to storage methods as well.

Developers have never taken PC gamer systems into consideration when leading with consoles. They increase the specs and you sink or swim with the times.

Anyway, we already have a PC exclusive in Star Citizen with which an SSD is very likely to be mandated at release.

HDD are ancient technology, why shouldn't they be phased out?