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Oct 27, 2017
15,051
Microsoft not being communicative doesnt sound good..

The consoles will end up very similar in terms of tech and ability. I imagine this is just that they're still finalising stuff or hadn't talked explicitly to the devs Jason spoke to, but the end result will be much the same.

i think most those games hide loading in the cutscenes, which is still equal to no loading but..
Uncharted just has that one long ass loading in the beginning.

I prefer a long loading screen at the beginning of the game and then none while I'm playing. Especially with sleep/restore mode, so I can pick it back up the following night without needing to load.
 

NLCPRESIDENT

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,969
Midwest
The consoles will end up very similar in terms of tech and ability. I imagine this is just that they're still finalising stuff or hadn't talked explicitly to the devs Jason spoke to, but the end result will be much the same.



I prefer a long loading screen at the beginning of the game and then none while I'm playing. Especially with sleep/restore mode, so I can pick it back up the following night without needing to load.
Oh yea. I'm ready to be done with loading all together. You just made me wanna finish LL tho. ✌🏾
 

Deleted member 10747

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,259
img_2027.jpg


I have a 600/600 MB fiber connection and the PSN is fast
For what you get that's not fast. Its not even close to saturating your connection.

Actual download speed: 95.8MB/s
1st download: 45.8 MB/s​
2nd download: 50 MB/s​
Max download speed minus 10% overhead: 540MB/s
1st download: 265 MB/s - 40sec to download​
2nd download: 270MB/s - 2 min to download​
So as you can see PSN is not really going fast for your connection. For some reason PSN is, as far as i can tell and have seen, not going to saturate anyone's connection.
 
Last edited:

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
For what you get that's not fast. Its not even close to saturating your connection.

Actual download speed: 95.8MB/s
1st download: 45.8 MB/s​
2nd download: 50 MB/s​
Max download speed minus 10% overhead: 540MB/s
1st download: 265 MB/s - 40sec to download​
2nd download: 270MB/s - 2 min to download​
So as you can see PSN is not really going fast for your connection. For some reason PSN is, as far as i can tell and have seen, not going to saturate anyone's connection.

This is not the fastest download I have seen. I download the full Wipeout in 10 minutes. When I tried the network connection inside the test tools. It gives me download speed of 590 mb the day, I downloaded Wipeout but I did not take a photo I was surprised.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
3,960
Osaka, Osaka
Didn't we know this from the Wired Cerny interview?

Yeah, pretty much.

For what you get that's not fast. Its not even close to saturating your connection.

Actual download speed: 95.8MB/s
1st download: 45.8 MB/s
2nd download: 50 MB/s

Max download speed minus 10% overhead: 540MB/s
1st download: 265 MB/s - 40sec to download
2nd download: 270MB/s - 2 min to download

So as you can see PSN is not really going fast for your connection. For some reason PSN is, as far as i can tell and have seen, not going to saturate anyone's connection.

I have a fiber line at my house, and the stuff downloads at about that speed. It's almost like it's capped.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
They are three things that sound fantastic but if any of them don't happen, people will be very unhappy. I am not sure how they can say "no loading" even with SSD tech. Really interested how it all shakes out but it does feel a little like the "in 4k" PR stuff that appeared for the PS4.

Still, it's all exciting times for nextgen consoles!
 

Sams88

Member
Oct 9, 2019
221
They are three things that sound fantastic but if any of them don't happen, people will be very unhappy. I am not sure how they can say "no loading" even with SSD tech. Really interested how it all shakes out but it does feel a little like the "in 4k" PR stuff that appeared for the PS4.

Still, it's all exciting times for nextgen consoles!
I have a dev friend working on a title (very early). And he says the SSD will be the most noticeable difference next-gen. They've changed the entire way games are installed and accessed.

This is before we get into the in-game benefits such as those demo'd in Spider-Man.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
I have a dev friend working on a title (very early). And he says the SSD will be the most noticeable difference next-gen. They've changed the entire way games are installed and accessed.

This is before we get into the in-game benefits such as those demo'd in Spider-Man.
Yeah, SSD was a massive boost for PC's, so I am looking forward to seeing titles made for nextgen systems that use SSD. The biggest problem is that vast majority of games will be across systems, do I don't know how SSD focused you can make stuff. Not long to find out!
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,846
The consoles will end up very similar in terms of tech and ability. I imagine this is just that they're still finalising stuff or hadn't talked explicitly to the devs Jason spoke to, but the end result will be much the same.



I prefer a long loading screen at the beginning of the game and then none while I'm playing. Especially with sleep/restore mode, so I can pick it back up the following night without needing to load.
We actually don't know that. We only know about similar CPU and GPU. But that's not only what define the "ability" of a console.
 

Deleted member 10747

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,259
This is not the fastest download I have seen. I download the full Wipeout in 10 minutes. When I tried the network connection inside the test tools. It gives me download speed of 590 mb the day, I downloaded Wipeout but I did not take a photo I was surprised.
Wipeout Omega is 24GB so that should have only taken you about 40seconds. Compared to what your internet speed is, PSN is not fast for you.

I have a fiber line at my house, and the stuff downloads at about that speed. It's almost like it's capped.
I don't have fiber yet (hopefully they will connect me soon) but PSN downloads at about half my connection speed. So I don't know why it isn't saturating anyone's connection. For example Chris has a 600MB/s connection and gets around 100MB/s, me on the other hand have a 250Mb/s connection and max out at 100Mb/s. So even though we both have different speeds and he does get fast speed, it for some reason does not saturate my connection. So if it was capped, I and people like me should saturate our connection, and it doesn't.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
3,960
Osaka, Osaka
I don't have fiber yet (hopefully they will connect me soon) but PSN downloads at about half my connection speed. So I don't know why it isn't saturating anyone's connection. For example Chris has a 600MB/s connection and gets around 100MB/s, me on the other hand have a 250Mb/s connection and max out at 100Mb/s. So even though we both have different speeds and he does get fast speed, it for some reason does not saturate my connection. So if it was capped, I and people like me should saturate our connection, and it doesn't.

Yeah my Switch on a good day will test at 98Mb down, despite me having a 1Gbps connection, and my PS4 usually no higher than 300Mbps.
Apple TV will do ~700Mbps, and so will my laptop, on ethernet as well.

It's like it's capped by software or something.
 

Thatguy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,207
Seattle WA
But there's still a big difference between playing instantly like Stadia (quality not withstanding) and having to download let's so 20gb to play multiplayer? How is that play right away in terms of the PS5?
Pre-installs will still be a thing for new releases. But yeah that impulse buy seems unlikely to let you jump right in instantly, even if its only downloading your first map. There will possibly be some tricks to mask the background downloading like long mandatory into levels.
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,857
Yeah, SSD was a massive boost for PC's, so I am looking forward to seeing titles made for nextgen systems that use SSD. The biggest problem is that vast majority of games will be across systems, do I don't know how SSD focused you can make stuff. Not long to find out!

SSD maximize IO capacity insanely and it's automatic in most OS system. While devs can't do what star citizen did to maximize a lot of genres by default will be better cause of the speed increases from SSD. I really like arpgs and open world titles on SSD compared to old platter drives.
 

Hieroph

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,995
Sounds great. But who needs to play a game 4 seconds after they've bought it? Just put the disc in the first thing you do when you get home and let it install while you settle down. My PS4 games are usually ready before I am.
 

Deleted member 18161

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,805
For 3rd party games where PC development is going to be a thing, I don't see this being specialized at all. I think it will be transparent to the developer. Any PC owner could get around the entire SSD loading with raw RAM and just install the entire game on a RAMdisk. I'm thinking that it won't be something 3rd party devs will harness -- just 1st party. The games will still load fast and have good streaming speed, but I think the PC owners are saying they have had this for a long time already as a general speed enhancement without any custom code. In the end, everybody wins.

None of that changes the fact that a game has never been designed around an SSD before. The PC version would simply require one in its recommended minimum specifications. If it doesn't have one then you'll get a game that runs like Star Wars on the base Xbox One (massive stalls as it loads World data in).
 

BradGrenz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,507
For what you get that's not fast. Its not even close to saturating your connection.

Actual download speed: 95.8MB/s
1st download: 45.8 MB/s​
2nd download: 50 MB/s​
Max download speed minus 10% overhead: 540MB/s
1st download: 265 MB/s - 40sec to download​
2nd download: 270MB/s - 2 min to download​
So as you can see PSN is not really going fast for your connection. For some reason PSN is, as far as i can tell and have seen, not going to saturate anyone's connection.

Even if his internet is actually 600MBps and not 600Mbps, he would be limited by the ~100MB/s write speed of his PS4 hard drive. Which is to say he IS maxxed out.

EDIT: PS4s don't have 10Gbps ethernet anyway.
 

Deleted member 10747

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,259
Even if his internet is actually 600MBps and not 600Mbps, he would be limited by the ~100MB/s write speed of his PS4 hard drive. Which is to say he IS maxxed out.

EDIT: PS4s don't have 10Gbps ethernet anyway.
Lol I forgot about the slow ass 5400rpm hdd. But then shouldn't it max out slower connections? I've got a 25MB/s connection so shouldn't i be maxing out my connection? Then again i've never seen a PS4 max out any connection.

edit: Both of your points are valid but shouldn't it max out certain connections? For example a 50Mb/s connection? I have seen people connection not even going that fast not maxing PSN.
 

HellofaMouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,176
wasnt "play right away" a big talking point in the begining of this gen too? its the end of the generation and we are still waiting for 20-30 mins for games to install
 

Hieroph

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,995
They are three things that sound fantastic but if any of them don't happen, people will be very unhappy. I am not sure how they can say "no loading" even with SSD tech. Really interested how it all shakes out but it does feel a little like the "in 4k" PR stuff that appeared for the PS4.

Still, it's all exciting times for nextgen consoles!

Some PS4 games already have minimal or non-existent load times when you're in the game. The biggest load time is usually when you start the game. So if they can push the SSD and some optimization tech, it's completely feasible to get those in-game loading times to zero and maybe even eliminate the starting load time for all intents and purposes.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
Some PS4 games already have minimal or non-existent load times when you're in the game. The biggest load time is usually when you start the game. So if they can push the SSD and some optimization tech, it's completely feasible to get those in-game loading times to zero and maybe even eliminate the starting load time for all intents and purposes.
That would be fantastic going forward. I think most people have played games with either awful initial loads or lengthy loads for death and reload situations. If they can eliminate those types, then it will be amazing.
 

evilalien

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,494
Lol I forgot about the slow ass 5400rpm hdd. But then shouldn't it max out slower connections? I've got a 25MB/s connection so shouldn't i be maxing out my connection? Then again i've never seen a PS4 max out any connection.

edit: Both of your points are valid but shouldn't it max out certain connections? For example a 50Mb/s connection? I have seen people connection not even going that fast not maxing PSN.

I have a 500Mbps connection and it maxes out for me. It just depends how good their CDNs are where you live.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,995
wasnt "play right away" a big talking point in the begining of this gen too? its the end of the generation and we are still waiting for 20-30 mins for games to install
Right, but on both consoles you can see where the ready to play part is when downloading, some games you can play part of the first level, some games it's just getting into the menus to setup. For basketball you might can do practice games, not sure because it varies by game.

I haven't played on XBO in awhile, but on PS4 I know it's easy to see where ready to play is vs the whole install.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,330
The consoles will end up very similar in terms of tech and ability. I imagine this is just that they're still finalising stuff or hadn't talked explicitly to the devs Jason spoke to, but the end result will be much the same.

With regards to the CPU, GPU and probably RAM, absolutely.

Regarding the SSD thought, we might see a notable difference.

Same thing with RT in favour of MS. Although there's no much evidence regarding that just yet, just a lot of talk
 

Leveean

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,093
I wonder if devs will continue to force people to download games in their entirety just so there's a chance people might try mp/sp on impulse, even though tbey might not have been interested in that component of the game initially.
 

DLbeast

Member
Feb 11, 2019
54
To me I hate playing games with load times, games that happen to be on HDDs. Even on PC with SSD most games are for use with HDDs. I think the current Path of Exile is built around SSD, on HDD it's an incredibly slow load, and things load in slow, but on SSD it's a dream.

I'm in a rush, so I didn't read the next few thread pages. I did notice this comment. This brings to me an important question. Since the Xbox ecosystem of consoles (Xbox one, Xbox one s, Xbox Digi only, Xbox one x), have recently been communicated that all games in the pipeline will work for them, and be playable for Scarlet. This bodes the question of games that are next-gen, and made for SSD, how will this disrupt this ecosystem? As you have shown , ( along with a certain space game in recent videos on youtube)games made for SSD, suck on HDD. I am very curious, how this impacts Scarlet, and the rest of the ecosystem, and what Microsoft intends to do with or about this issue.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
I'm in a rush, so I didn't read the next few thread pages. I did notice this comment. This brings to me an important question. Since the Xbox ecosystem of consoles (Xbox one, Xbox one s, Xbox Digi only, Xbox one x), have recently been communicated that all games in the pipeline will work for them, and be playable for Scarlet. This bodes the question of games that are next-gen, and made for SSD, how will this disrupt this ecosystem? As you have shown , ( along with a certain space game in recent videos on youtube)games made for SSD, suck on HDD. I am very curious, how this impacts Scarlet, and the rest of the ecosystem, and what Microsoft intends to do with or about this issue.
It'll probably work like current gen games on a SSD, they are made to work for HDD but on SSD they will load a bit faster. Data duplication will still be there inflating the size of the games. For Scarlet only games they may be made with a fast SSD in mind and trying to play on a HDD directly may get the effect of assets loading in slowly. If Microsoft is making next gen games also work for current gen games it may have extra data to compensate for the old consoles and slow HDDs.
 

BradGrenz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,507
This brings to me an important question. Since the Xbox ecosystem of consoles (Xbox one, Xbox one s, Xbox Digi only, Xbox one x), have recently been communicated that all games in the pipeline will work for them, and be playable for Scarlet. This bodes the question of games that are next-gen, and made for SSD, how will this disrupt this ecosystem? As you have shown , ( along with a certain space game in recent videos on youtube)games made for SSD, suck on HDD. I am very curious, how this impacts Scarlet, and the rest of the ecosystem, and what Microsoft intends to do with or about this issue.

I think we may see MS left with their pants down a bit. It feels like MS was aiming for "much shorter load times" while Sony was working on "literally no load times".
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,736
I think we may see MS left with their pants down a bit. It feels like MS was aiming for "much shorter load times" while Sony was working on "literally no load times".

Hmm. Sony has, as far as I can recall, been very careful not to make a promise like 'no load times' publicly.

I think they want to shorten them as much as possible, but 'no load times' isn't something anyone can guarantee.

Differences in approach to cross gen vs next-gen exclusives, with regard to the SSDs, will be more interesting for their repercussions at runtime than at loadtime, IMO, if ssds are in fact a big runtime game-changer. I'm a lot keener on how SSDs can change things at runtime, and how games can take advantage of that.
 

-Le Monde-

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
12,613
Why not make use of preload for physical tittles?

Download a large part of the game, allowing the player to start right away once they put the disc in.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,429
FIN
Price will be the same as MS. People seem to think $500 it's a given, but I still think both will be at $400

:DDD

Sony and MS both would eat shit ton of red just for lolz? HW you guys are drooling all over and they are packing into tiny plastic boxes isn't cheap, selling them at 400 pop would be at considerable loss.

I doubt software licensing and sales would offset that loss enough to justify such low price for console itself.
 

Pasha

Banned
Jan 27, 2018
3,018
For what you get that's not fast. Its not even close to saturating your connection.

Actual download speed: 95.8MB/s
1st download: 45.8 MB/s​
2nd download: 50 MB/s​
Max download speed minus 10% overhead: 540MB/s
1st download: 265 MB/s - 40sec to download​
2nd download: 270MB/s - 2 min to download​
So as you can see PSN is not really going fast for your connection. For some reason PSN is, as far as i can tell and have seen, not going to saturate anyone's connection.
Aren't these things usually show Megabytes/s while the ISPs measure their plans in Megabits/s?
If that's the case then he is getting pretty much the max speed.
 

mordecaii83

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,862
Aren't these things usually show Megabytes/s while the ISPs measure their plans in Megabits/s?
If that's the case then he is getting pretty much the max speed.
Yeah, people seem to be mixing up Mb/s vs MB/s. 500Mb/s is about 62MB/s. Then as another poster commented, 2.5" 5400 rpm HDD's are limited to 100MB/s or less writes no matter your connection speed.
 

Hieroph

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,995
Why not make use of preload for physical tittles?

Download a large part of the game, allowing the player to start right away once they put the disc in.

Physical disc installs are already super fast for most games. Just put the game in the first thing you do when you get home or have it delivered or whatever, and it'll be ready to play by the time you sit down.