Jeff Grubb on Hi-Fi Rush: "Based on what I've heard, it just didn't make the money it needed to make"

[DriftingSpirit]

Jeff mentions how there may still be a performance expectation for games despite being on Game Pass, and that a far bigger game like Halo Infinite ultimately failing to provide a cushion of sorts by bringing in tons of money may hurt games like Hi-Fi Rush. We have heard statements like these before with the most recent being from Sony on how even Call of Duty helps to fund their first party content. Or how huge successes like Spider-Man, Zelda, etc... allow room for comparatively smaller successes or experiments that don't work out.

Call of Duty could serve that role for Microsoft (assuming the ABK deal goes through), but Jeff says it still feels like Microsoft's decision making in regard to game management is handled sloppily.

Jeff also mentions that management is not happy with the state of Xbox. He doesn't go into more detail about that specifically, but says commentary regarding any dissatisfaction with Xbox is more to acknowledge and diagnose issues it has because they matter.

---
22:25-24:50 = Hi-Fi Rush
29:38-30:25 = Management unhappy

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[Zekes]

As a non-Xbox owner, I paid $1 for GPU to play Hi-fi Rush on my MacBook via XCloud, sorry ya'll

 

[Dale Copper]

Can't say I am too shocked as I had a feeling it was a game that just people talked a whole lot rather than a bought/tried it out.

 

[Zebesian-X]

HiFi Rushcels…

we lost

 

[DGxO]

Who woulda thunk that devaluing your own titles by putting them out on a cheap subscription service would hurt the sales expectations of major exclusives. Never could have seen this coming.

It's a shame because I love HiFI Rush, but it's clear Gamepass's growth has plateaued and I don't know how much longer Microsoft is willing to throw money away trying to win market share for it by tying major exlusives to it, especially when markee titles like Halo Infinite flop.

 

[Loud Wrong]

Hasn't it been a year and a half since the last big retail game on Xbox from MS? Management should be pissed. It's kind of embarrassing to be so consistently bad at this for so long. Game Pass is awesome in theory, but it needs big first party titles. Maybe the AB deal closes soon and Diablo hits the service this summer.

 

[craven68]

I really think xbox need to look at getting more player...hifi rush was excellent, getting great review but what it has missing it's xbox/pc player. They should look to attract people that like playing this kind of game. This game was made for japan....but no one in japan had played this game for exemple.
They need a lot of this kind of games, then these players will come, and then it will succeed.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Xbox hasn't really had the slate of first party content necessary to entice consumers imo. Something like Hi-Fi Rush needs bigger titles to bring users into the ecosystem. It is a quality title but I never would expect it to make any money/good money with the current state of Xbox.

 

[LossAversion]

But... it was "free". You can't get everyone on board with game pass and then expect the games on game pass to make money. That money was made on game pass subs.

 

[Benzychenz]

I mean wouldn't 99% of people that play it have done so via GamePass regardless?

Colour me shocked that putting games on a subscription service day 1 makes them not sell.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

At the end of the day as good as gamepass is, it's hard to see how it generates more revenue then the Day 1 to Increasing sales to streaming service model.

Except where microtransactions are also involved similar to Free To Play games, and if gamepass is snaring folk who would only usually buy one game a year.

One day we'll see the financials behind it all leak and it'll be a very interesting read.

 

[LazerRanger]

If true this is a real shame, my fave Xbox/Tango Gameworks game for a long time.

 

[Soap]

I'm not really sure how they can expect any kind of sales target to be hit when it's a niche game strath dropped on to gamepass.

Regarding the state of Xbox, I don't think I have to say much more than the obvious. Mismanagement of developers is creating a drought of releases and customers are running out of patience.

 

[jaekeem]

I wonder if microsoft throwing money at gamepass will end up a ZIRP phenomenon like the media streaming wars in tv

 

[Rubblatus]

I did my part; I bought it on Steam.

 

[Oreiller]

I hope its great critical reception will be taken into account though, Microsoft really needs that kind of games in its catalogue in terms of image and diversity. Both it and Pentiment are a breath of fresh air.

 

[Jarmel]

I'm sorry what did they expect? It's on Gamepass. Did they expect people to buy the Steam version or something?

 

[Deleted member 108302]

As the one person who bought it on Steam, this is a real shame. It's one of the best games Microsoft's put out in years.

 

[Pancracio17]

HiFi Rushcels…

we lost

Click to shrink...

Its over

 

[Wingnut]

Jeff Grubb with story time again.

I just waiting that he announce again a secret project that only he knows which will be soon scrapped what also only he knows.

 

[EraLurker24]

Can't say I am too shocked as I had a feeling it was a game that just people talked a whole lot rather than a bought/tried it out.

Click to shrink...

It was a neat concept and I'm glad some enjoyed it, but I couldn't stick with it personally. Kinda average story and the level design doesn't really appeal to me in this day and age. I can't put my finger on it but games like this put me to sleep these days. Had a similar problem with High on Life.

 

[~Millet~]

Jeff also mentions that management is not happy with the state of Xbox. He doesn't go into more detail about that specifically, but says commentary regarding any dissatisfaction with Xbox is more to acknowledge and diagnose issues it has because they matter.

Click to shrink...

Interesting.

 

[Killer]

Wasn't the whole point of gamepass is they don't need to look at this stuff?

 

[Gavalanche]

wasn't gamepass meant to make these sorts of worries redundant? That's why the developers have freedom to do them. Like what's the point if they have sales targets, since they aren't going to meet them due to being a smaller title and on gamepass.

 

[antispin]

…Microsoft's decision making in regard to game management is handled sloppily.

Click to shrink...

It does appear sloppy. Either the leadership has not given enough thought or planning to integration of all their studios' output, release and marketing; or the planning is done and it is just taking time to fruition (it can take time for a big org).

I still think we need to check back next generation to pass judgment on how MS is managing Xbox Studios and Gamepass.

Wasn't the whole point of gamepass is they don't need to look at this stuff?

Click to shrink...

wasn't gamepass meant to make these sorts of worries redundant? That's why the developers have freedom to do them. Like what's the point if they have sales targets, since they aren't going to meet them due to being a smaller title and on gamepass.

Click to shrink...

There has to be a metric to measure. It may not be copies "sold" but maybe time spent by users or completion rate. This is the reason there was concern that a sub service will track metric(s) which maybe detrimental to traditional game design.

As an aside: even without a sub, we are already seeing signs of game design to encourage completion rates (E.g: the talky protag or sidekicks who help you solve puzzles and/or move forward. Another e.g: the yellow markers on textures which show you interaction points or the way ahead.)

 

[hydruxo]

This feels like some shit he just made up honestly. I'm sure Xbox is ok with how Hi-Fi Rush did considering it was such a critical success. It was a game they shadow dropped on Game Pass. I doubt they expected it to make a ton of money.

 

[Zebesian-X]

RE Game Pass and performance metrics: In an interview with MinnMax Josh Sawyer mentions that Pentiment was labelled an "art game" internally from the jump, meaning it was excused from any of the usual expectations Microsoft would apply to a first-party release.

Would make sense if Xbox wasn't just handing that designation out like Candy, but I'd be
curious to know WHAT their expectations were for a game like this, given that it's being given away on a service like GP

 

[Wise]

It's a good 7/10 game

Felt too budget imo, level design was awful

 

[Witchcraft]

That's a shame if true, the game is fantastic. I do think there's clearly something behind game pass impacting sales on Xbox though despite all the counter claims. If a first party well received Japanese game can't find success on the platform it's no surprise other publishers may be hesitant with no guarantee of ROI.

 

[Dale Copper]

Wasn't the whole point of gamepass is they don't need to look at this stuff?

Click to shrink...

As he said, if your big games fail to sell well it hurts everything.

Guess what Halo Infinite did...

 

[Reyes]

wasn't gamepass meant to make these sorts of worries redundant? That's why the developers have freedom to do them. Like what's the point if they have sales targets, since they aren't going to meet them due to being a smaller title and on gamepass.

Click to shrink...

I imagine even with Gamepass they still have targets that they want game to reach like internal metrics and such thats pretty much the same as sale targets like Netflix does.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

what were they expecting for a niche game launching on gamepass day 1?

 

[supercommodore]

It's the type of game to keep people interested enough to stay subbed between big games, if the big games aren't there what are management expecting Hi-fi Rush to do by itself. Do they even understand their own business model?

 

[Oreiller]

wasn't gamepass meant to make these sorts of worries redundant? That's why the developers have freedom to do them. Like what's the point if they have sales targets, since they aren't going to meet them due to being a smaller title and on gamepass.

Click to shrink...

That was PR talk, every subscription service out there has many metrics about engagement. Just look at the number of series Netflix has canceled over the years.

 

[cw_sasuke]

After burning through so much money with with unproven projects that fail to leave a lasting impressions on the broader market i expect MS tune to change quite a bit once the ABK deal is done.

Time to recoup some of money they spent the last couple years to keep the Xbox boat afloat.

wasn't gamepass meant to make these sorts of worries redundant? That's why the developers have freedom to do them. Like what's the point if they have sales targets, since they aren't going to meet them due to being a smaller title and on gamepass.

Click to shrink...

They have also been missing GP subscriber targets for a while though.
On some level these games still have to performance, MS isnt just spending on money for years without a clear path to recoup all of that down the line.

 

[Neonep]

If you didn't see this coming, you lack critical thinking.

 

[Dierce]

wasn't gamepass meant to make these sorts of worries redundant? That's why the developers have freedom to do them. Like what's the point if they have sales targets, since they aren't going to meet them due to being a smaller title and on gamepass.

Click to shrink...

I can only imagine that it removes the money incentive that lots of studios have when it comes to meeting goals and management has yet to figure out how to get their studios to meet certain targets, although that is also a problem with Xbox marketing which has been atrocious.

But regardless, this is why I'm not expecting day one CoD on game pass if the acquisition goes through because MS probably fears deluding such an important money maker. And I'm also half expecting them to tone down game pass eventually.

 

[Dingo]

Wait I watched the management section and it came of as a "of course xbox is not happy with where they are" instead of inside knowledge?

 

[modiz]

wasn't gamepass meant to make these sorts of worries redundant? That's why the developers have freedom to do them. Like what's the point if they have sales targets, since they aren't going to meet them due to being a smaller title and on gamepass.

Click to shrink...

Maybe there was some miscommunication and the underperformance is viewed by whether HiFi Rush helped grow gamepass to a satisfactory amount/revenue achieved by the game from people subscribing to gamepass to play it as opposed to currently existing subscribers that were likely to stay subscribed regardless?

 

[Deleted member 13330]

Jeff mentions how there may still be a performance expectation for games despite being on Game Pass, and that a far bigger game like Halo Infinite ultimately failing to provide a cushion of sorts by bringing in tons of money may hurt games like Hi-Fi Rush.

Click to shrink...

But... it was "free". You can't get everyone on board with game pass and then expect the games on game pass to make money. That money was made on game pass subs.

Click to shrink...

I mean wouldn't 99% of people that play it have done so via GamePass regardless?

Colour me shocked that putting games on a subscription service day 1 makes them not sell.

Click to shrink...

I'm not really sure how they can expect any kind of sales target to be hit when it's a niche game strath dropped on to gamepass.

Regarding the state of Xbox, I don't think I have to say much more than the obvious. Mismanagement of developers is creating a drought of releases and customers are running out of patience.

Click to shrink...

I'm sorry what did they expect? It's on Gamepass. Did they expect people to buy the Steam version or something?

Click to shrink...

Of course Game Pass games still have sales expectations outside GP. They also have performance expectations on GP in terms of engagement, and that includes a certain number of service sign ups that can be seemingly directly attributed to the game.

Did people really think Game Pass meant the end of MS caring about the actual returns they would get from their titles? Every game has expectations across a broad range of metrics that are carefully collected and compared vs targets.

 

[Ascenion]

When he says management isn't happy with Xbox…does he mean Microsoft? Or Xbox management. Because one of those is worse than the other.

wasn't gamepass meant to make these sorts of worries redundant? That's why the developers have freedom to do them. Like what's the point if they have sales targets, since they aren't going to meet them due to being a smaller title and on gamepass.

Click to shrink...

Gamepass needs to make enough money in order for that to work. Profitable doesn't mean it's making enough money to offset losses. Halo Infinite wasn't supposed to go how it did. It didn't sell enough and it didn't drive subs enough either. They also haven't had any first party titles since Halo infinite to drive subs. It's a multilayered problem. It's as if Netflix doesn't make hit shows. You maintain subscribers and a level of revenue off your library l, but you aren't growing because a lot of that stuff is an amiable elsewhere. You need Stranger Things and You to drive engagement and then follow those up to drive rentention.

 

[Gavalanche]

I imagine even with Gamepass they still have targets that they want game to reach like internal metrics and such thats pretty much the same as sale targets like Netflix does.

Click to shrink...

Well sure but what were they expecting? I could understand having sales expectations for something like Starfield, they would clearly expect that to sell millions regardless and also to drive subscriptions. But a small title like Hifi Rush?

It's just weird. This whole article has me going well no shit, of course it didn't sell much or drive subscribers.

 

[nbnt]

Of course it didn't, it's a gamepass title, most people interested in it will play it via sub.

 

[Sausage_Poison]

As a Sunset Overdrive fan, this rumor must be frustrating to Hi-Fi Rush fans.

 

[dlauv]

No one was gonna pay full price for it on console.

 

[Kratos2098]

Seemed like this was obviously going to happen. Microsoft putting all their games on Game Pass does not mean they are going to be successful.

 

[Armoredgoomba]

I bought the steam version cause I didn't want to stream it on my xbox one s. Sorry tango.

 

[Dougieflesh]

That sucks to hear about Hi-Fi Rush

 

[Joo]

Who woulda thunk that devaluing your own titles by putting them out on a cheap subscription service would hurt the sales expectations of major exclusives. Never could have seen this coming.

It's a shame because I love HiFI Rush, but it's clear Gamepass's growth has plateaued and I don't know how much longer Microsoft is willing to throw money away trying to win market share for it by tying major exlusives to it, especially when markee titles like Halo Infinite flop.

Click to shrink...

Of course they take GP into account and don't just look at sales. Hi-Fi Rush not making the money it needed to make is probably derived from low sales + GP player count who actually played the game and not only tried it.

 

[Kyrios]

Trying to wrap my head around what sales expectations they had with a game that was shadowdropped onto a subscription service.