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Saving it for preorders announcement, btw they were pretty confident with their showcase.
How does companies like Tesla/Uber operate with all the losses they make? Perhaps arm-chair analytics is something we should not be doing unless we actually work as a business analyst in the video game market?
not to be harsh but for many years we have seen arm-chair analysis having no basis in reality.
yes, MS wants Xbox to be profitable/make money but we don't know timeframes.
And we don't know yet what kind of revenue/profit the newest bets will bring (gamepass, Xcloud, Xbox hardware peripheral, in-game transactions etc)
so how can we even try to come up with numbers or ideas on in what scale MS operates in?
I never said people won't still pay, I said Nintendo and Sony would look like clowns. So would the consumers who would continue to put up with it. I made fun of XBL Gold back then, so I'm not going to change my tune just because the tables have turned. If this is true, Microsoft deserves a fuck ton of credit, like I said, I'll buy a Series X if this happens.
I believe it. They can then do away with the 4 free games a month thing, which has been obviously not priority since Game Pass started anyway. With It might've made sense in the 360 era, but free to play online games are where the engagement and micro-transactions live now and barriers to that are dumb. Game Pass Ultimate and Project xCloud provide plenty of value to still drive subscriptions that way.
Wow. Hopefully they at least take away that requirement. Going free 100%? Idk if i believe that, i would love that, but i won't hold my breath.
Unlikely. Sony as the market leader doesn't have to rush into dropping PS+( if anything they'd probably roll Ps Now into it in some form) until and unless they see significant drops in subscriber base( indicating that people may be backing off and finding other alternatives). As for Nintendo you can't play Mario Kart, Smash, Splatoon or Mario Maker online anywhere else so they can keep charging you for that since there's no alternative for people invested in those games.
XBLG does exist and makes Microsoft 1+ billion dollars a year.
Xcloud doesn't exist yet as a service to customers. It doesn't make any money. We have no idea how many people will use that service. And when it will be publicly available, it will stream 720p Xbox One games until 2021, when the XBO blades will get replaced by XSX blades that will stream up to 4 XBO instances and ? XSX instances.
Right, until the next month. And XBLG is profitable, how profitable is GamePass? Certainly not as much.
It's an incredibly risky move that's completely unnecessary. You can still get people to subscribe to GamePass while keeping XBLG alive.
If they're the last games behind the service I don't think you could expect 40 million subscribers to stay subscribed. If like 75% of sports gamers stay subscribed you're still looking at a massive drop in subscribers.
If those games go f2p tons of people will just stop paying for those services which would probably kill them.
When the rumors started I thought removing gold entirely was kinda of crazy. I thought it was just going to be added to GP. That said, the more I think about it the more I suspect this might be a smart business decision for MS. They'll get more revenue from transactions and they'll remove a barrier to get people in to their ecosystem.
probably cuz they wanted to position the july showcase as being focussed on games (and games pass). the august event could be more about services/UI/etc.
The original pricing justification for XBL was one username for all games, universal voice chat support, and achievements. It took years for Sony to catch up, and by then Sony started charging as well, and giving away free games with Plus in 2010. Then MS started giving away free games with Gold in 2013.
I imagine now that MS is removing the paywall, GWG will stop as well. So Sony's value proposition for PS Plus remains (in giving away free games) and they also have PSNow (streaming service), only now that value equation changes since the competing pay service is GamePass/XCloud combined for one fee. Changing the value equation will invariably effect price-conscious consumers, especially in the US/UK.
do you think the august event will be more focussed on price/services/lockhart/etc, or will games still have a big part in it?
Man if this turns out to be true, people will be paying quite the premium to play on PlayStation. $120 for online and a single first party game, compared to $120 a year for all first party games, a great selection of 3rd party games and free multiplayer. Insane value proposition.
It's a smart move. How else could you justify GamePass Ultimate owners that while they can play online for 'free' on PC/Mobile, on console they would have to pay another fee on top of the GamePass subscription cost?
It comes off as greedy and confusing to most people.
It comes off as greedy and confusing to most people.
I don't see those games going F2P considering the amount of people that buy them each year. And by the time that happens, these services will provide another things to justify their values, be it more games or another features.
I've been saying this for a while now. Removing barrier for entry and getting more people to play online and spending in the ecosystem will bring them much bigger returns long-term than the Live Gold subscriptions ever would.
btw also interesting that Microsoft has so many f2p mp titles coming out soon that they are closely attached to. Crossfire, PSO2 Genesis, and possibly Halo. Would certainly make more sense to bring those out in an environment where there is no MP paywall to make them truly free and get the largest userbase.
Edit: also that Korean Kart racer that they had at a few of their shows as well. That is f2p I believe as well.
Edit: also that Korean Kart racer that they had at a few of their shows as well. That is f2p I believe as well.
I think a lot of people here are underestimating how likely it is MS can recoup (and surpass) revenue from XBL. Free multiplayer will likely increase engagement in games that are already F2P, making them money. Combine that with their own multiplayer titles going F2P, and they're going to snipe people from other consoles. If they nail the pricing, and throw in a month or three of Game Pass, that'll be an incredibly tempting offer.
$500 might get you a Series X, exclusive free multiplayer titles (and the multiplats) that don't require a fee to jump in to, and a short time to sample Game Pass. Compare that to $500 up front, plus a $60 game or two, and then a $60 sub just to hop online...and you're at $700+ at launch. That's before taking into account that old accessories will work on Xbox, but you'll be dropping cash on Sony's "we believe in generations" approach (unless Sony announced that previous accessories will work and I missed it).
No matter how you slice it, the value shifts over to Xbox for people that mostly play multiplayer...if this actually goes through, of course.
If this happens, there absolutely will be pressure to drop the online sub fee. Sony titles are mostly single player, one-and-done games. People that buy PlayStation, but don't really play their exclusives, will most likely switch to Xbox. Anybody that has every major platform will likely make Xbox their main while PlayStation gets relegated to exclusives duty. They'd still get their COD/Madden/NBA fix while also getting to jump straight into Halo, Forza, etc. The number of people that are loyal to either brand is not nearly as high as people here think. Even if they keep the PS+ fee, Sony absolutely will have to increase the value of that because multiplayer and a couple of free games will not cut it.
$500 might get you a Series X, exclusive free multiplayer titles (and the multiplats) that don't require a fee to jump in to, and a short time to sample Game Pass. Compare that to $500 up front, plus a $60 game or two, and then a $60 sub just to hop online...and you're at $700+ at launch. That's before taking into account that old accessories will work on Xbox, but you'll be dropping cash on Sony's "we believe in generations" approach (unless Sony announced that previous accessories will work and I missed it).
No matter how you slice it, the value shifts over to Xbox for people that mostly play multiplayer...if this actually goes through, of course.
If this happens, there absolutely will be pressure to drop the online sub fee. Sony titles are mostly single player, one-and-done games. People that buy PlayStation, but don't really play their exclusives, will most likely switch to Xbox. Anybody that has every major platform will likely make Xbox their main while PlayStation gets relegated to exclusives duty. They'd still get their COD/Madden/NBA fix while also getting to jump straight into Halo, Forza, etc. The number of people that are loyal to either brand is not nearly as high as people here think. Even if they keep the PS+ fee, Sony absolutely will have to increase the value of that because multiplayer and a couple of free games will not cut it.
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But Microsoft isn't a new startup that can burn VC money and maybe or maybe not reach profitability at some point. They are a trillion dollar company full of bean counters (no offense to MS), that's why I don't think they will do that, when they can still increase the GamePass subscriptions without sacrificing all of the XBLG revenue.
We have no patience. We need to know. There's some MS shareholders in this thread deeply worried.
I read this entire thread and still came away without an actual answer. You guys are absolutely bonkers, that's why I keep coming back to this site.
If Xbox does get rid of the whole paywall, that would be huge. Even just the free to play would be good news, not huge but at least good for Xbox owners.
If Xbox does get rid of the whole paywall, that would be huge. Even just the free to play would be good news, not huge but at least good for Xbox owners.
I don't think Sony can quickly since its obvious MSFT has been building up towards this transition if true with Gamepass. PSNOW is not going to be their answer in the first couple years. Also since the new consoles for both will most likely have losses to them, they need some revenue to offset that for the first year or so. Again, MSFT is betting on Gamepass for that revenue, and has a lot more Corporate stability to make that bet. It will be very interesting no matter what though.
To get money you should spend money.
Basically they should risk to remove multiplayer paywall to get more consumers and more people will buy their games.
Edit: Press X for Sony removing PS Plus, they make way more money that MS because there are more users and SONY wouldn't like that idea.
Basically they should risk to remove multiplayer paywall to get more consumers and more people will buy their games.
Edit: Press X for Sony removing PS Plus, they make way more money that MS because there are more users and SONY wouldn't like that idea.
I think he mean 60 for plus and 60 for a new game. Where as Gamepass would be cheaper since it includes a first party game.
Oh okay I think I read it incorrectly. The most I can see Sony doing sadly is bundling PSNOW and Plus together. I dont think they making online free any time soon.
Agreed, would be awesome if this spurred PS and Nintendo to follow suit (not holding my breath though).
Didn't Microsoft start the trend of consoles having paid online with Xbox Live? Good to see them going back in the right direction now, but damn that really set the industry on an unfortunate course lol
I think what this really does is force Sony to have to focus on having an online multiplayer offering.
people will go to Xbox to play COD, BF, Madden, RB6, 2K, etc etc etc online of its going to be free online. They'll also get to play Halo, Gears, etc.
What would Sony online offer you? What experience is gonna be worth it to consumers to pay an extra $300 a generation? Unless factions is a hit, they really have not invested much in online communities, they've been happy to let 3rd parties handle that. This is such a great counter by MS in my opinion and positions them again to be the huge online market leader like they were before.
It's going to be very interesting to see how Sony responds eventually if their PS+ numbers take huge hits.
people will go to Xbox to play COD, BF, Madden, RB6, 2K, etc etc etc online of its going to be free online. They'll also get to play Halo, Gears, etc.
What would Sony online offer you? What experience is gonna be worth it to consumers to pay an extra $300 a generation? Unless factions is a hit, they really have not invested much in online communities, they've been happy to let 3rd parties handle that. This is such a great counter by MS in my opinion and positions them again to be the huge online market leader like they were before.
It's going to be very interesting to see how Sony responds eventually if their PS+ numbers take huge hits.
Going back to how things should've been. Hopefully Sony and Nintendo revert back in the same order as well.
We'll see. I expect them to be dead within this generation starting at the end of this month.
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