Jeffrey Epstein Commits Suicide in Cell (See Staff Post)

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,134
You're confusing concern about prison suicide in general and this example specifically with skepticism that he committed suicide or that someone helped it happen in some way. They're not the same thing and one doesn't lead to the other.

There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest this was done to him or intentionally allowed or made to happen. Furthermore the prison system makes it very, very clear that no such intervention by anyone is required to give us this result. It's not rare.
No I'm not confusing anything.

the conspiracy, if there is one, would be someone who wants him dead, and knows he would do it himself given the opportunity, ensuring that such an opportunity presents itself.

The thing about conspiracy is that conspirators go to great lengths to suppress any evidence and to leave as little evidence as possible. So the lack of available evidence doesn't mean investigators shouldn't go looking for it - and that doesn't happen without a healthy amount of skepticism.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,808
I know they are not similar situations, but look at how many crazy conspiracy theories there about JFK and his death. Without the hard proof, ie video of Jeffery hanging himself, the conspiracy theories about Jeffery's suicide are going to go off the rails like the JFK theories have.
I don't know I think it's kind of shitposting to just randomly bring up other cts that literally have nothing at all in common except that there are theories.
 

KHarvey16

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,895
No I'm not confusing anything.

the conspiracy, if there is one, would be someone who wants him dead, and knows he would do it himself given the opportunity, ensuring that such an opportunity presents itself.

The thing about conspiracy is that conspirators go to great lengths to suppress any evidence and to leave as little evidence as possible. So the lack of available evidence doesn't mean investigators shouldn't go looking for it - and that doesn't happen without a healthy amount of skepticism.
But the “of course there’s no evidence, that’s what they want!” thing makes bad conspiracy theories unfalsifiable. The lack of evidence is seen as proof. It’s not rational. Beyond that it relies on hyper competence from traditionally and almost unfailingly incompetent people and entire agencies. I really can’t see how anyone after the last few years looks at rich people and thinks they’re good at hiding criminality.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,134
But the “of course there’s no evidence, that’s what they want!” thing makes bad conspiracy theories unfalsifiable. The lack of evidence is seen as proof. It’s not rational. Beyond that it relies on hyper competence from traditionally and almost unfailingly incompetent people and entire agencies. I really can’t see how anyone after the last few years looks at rich people and thinks they’re good at hiding criminality.
You can't find evidence if you don't look for it.

And when negligence is the scapegoat, it really doesn't require hyper competence. Literally, a "misjudged" psyche eval, is all it took to set the dominoes falling.

This guy and his rich friends have been running a sex trafficking ring for decades, and now your argument is that rich people aren't good at hiding criminality?
 

Plumbob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,387
yes it would be truly foolish to believe in any kind of conspiracy theory


A person with knowledge of the investigation said that when the decision was made to remove Mr. Epstein from suicide watch, the jail informed the Justice Department that Mr. Epstein would have a cellmate and that a guard “would look into his cell” every 30 minutes. But that was apparently not done, the person said

.......

Mr. Epstein’s suicide has also unleashed a torrent of unfounded conspiracy theories online, with people suggesting, without evidence, that Mr. Epstein was killed to keep him from incriminating others.
Does their reporting include the fact the President is doing this as well?
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,964
I know they are not similar situations, but look at how many crazy conspiracy theories there about JFK and his death. Without the hard proof, ie video of Jeffery hanging himself, the conspiracy theories about Jeffery's suicide are going to go off the rails like the JFK theories have.
Robert Maxwell is probably a better comparison here, especially because Epstein and him were buddies and he was also the father of Epstein's gf and main accomplice. There have been legitimate conspiracy theories about his mysterious death for almost 30 years now.

Not a surprise given his death was suspicious already, since he was likely a Mossad agent, and he was business partners with the "boss of bosses" semion mogilevich, a literal underworld kingpin of crime like he came out of a comic book. Toss in all the other powerful people and money at play here, and you have the underpinnings of a conspiracy theory that will probably never die.
 

KHarvey16

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,895
You can't find evidence if you don't look for it.

And when negligence is the scapegoat, it really doesn't require hyper competence. Literally, a "misjudged" psyche eval, is all it took to set the dominoes falling.

This guy and his rich friends have been running a sex trafficking ring for decades, and now your argument is that rich people aren't good at hiding criminality?
They didn't hide anything. They all got caught. Then people didn't do their jobs. That only works when no one is looking. That's not the case here with this situation now.

A "misjudged" psyche eval is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. It's another example where the less evidence there is, the more it seems likely in your scenario. Again it's not rational. And the hyper competence is required of those people orchestrating this "misjudgment." If you think that gets done without any evidence being created it's clear you haven't really been looking at everything that's been going on. These folks have relied for decades on people just not looking.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,116
Netherlands
The understaffing sounds plausible enough, but it's also awfully convenient for a cover up (not necessarily a conspiracy, could also be negligence). The culpability stays neatly somewhere in the gray area in between human error, corporate mismanagement and government underfunding or lack of oversight, so no one exactly is to blame really, and you can't really determine anything else than apparent suicide if noone was around or watching.

Still doesn't explain why you slack off and have the alleged only suicide in many years be the one high profile defendant and witness that had priors that you should really have been watching, understaffing or no.

I know I sound like a conspirational nutcase, but that's still a massive outlier for such a convenient thing to happen (and also exactly when they weren't paying attention, though they may have simply not paid attention at all). Sometimes outliers happen and so it could just be a case of happenstance. Still...
 
Oct 31, 2017
2,263
Jeffrey Epstein had to be one of the most high profile prisoners in American history due to his status, network, and the severity of his crimes and how all of these facts intertwined.

The fact that he wasn’t under 24/7 constant surveillance is negligence to such an extreme that it begs questioning.

“Whoops, it was an accident. We’re just incompetent, sorry!”. This as a means of plausible deniability is fucking disgusting if you ask me.
 

ItIsOkBro

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,658


The New York Times @nytimes

Breaking News: Jeffrey Epstein was left alone and not closely monitored before his suicide, in apparent violation of jail procedures, officials said https://nyti.ms/31uEwiW

11:10 AM - Aug 11, 2019


Michael Del Moro @MikeDelMoro

NEW: The NY Times reports Epstein was supposed to be checked on every 30 minutes, but the procedure wasn’t followed the night before he was found dead. He was left alone without a cell mate in violation of the jail’s normal procedure. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/nyregion/epstein-death-manhattan-correctional-center.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share …

11:14 AM - Aug 11, 2019
how convenient for him
 

Josh378

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,313
So I'm guessing this is enough time for Agent 47 to come in and take care of business? This Must Be level one first mission.

Yeah it's either he actually committed suicide or the guard watching him walked away on purpose so that someone can go in there and kill him and make it look like a suicide.
 
Jan 18, 2018
405
You're confusing concern about prison suicide in general and this example specifically with skepticism that he committed suicide or that someone helped it happen in some way. They're not the same thing and one doesn't lead to the other.

There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest this was done to him or intentionally allowed or made to happen. Furthermore the prison system makes it very, very clear that no such intervention by anyone is required to give us this result. It's not rare.
Too many powerful people benefit from his death for people not to have a big dose of skepticism, especially in a world where the worst people have been winning on a daily.
Jeffrey Epstein had to be one of the most high profile prisoners in American history due to his status, network, and the severity of his crimes and how all of these facts intertwined.

The fact that he wasn’t under 24/7 constant surveillance is negligence to such an extreme that it begs questioning.

“Whoops, it was an accident. We’re just incompetent, sorry!”. This as a means of plausible deniability is fucking disgusting if you ask me.
Yeeeah, they bullshittin with that.
 

Noodle

Member
Aug 22, 2018
1,114
Jeffrey Epstein had to be one of the most high profile prisoners in American history due to his status, network, and the severity of his crimes and how all of these facts intertwined.

The fact that he wasn’t under 24/7 constant surveillance is negligence to such an extreme that it begs questioning.

“Whoops, it was an accident. We’re just incompetent, sorry!”. This as a means of plausible deniability is fucking disgusting if you ask me.
The number of posters (not just you) who display a stunning lack of awareness of prison conditions by asking "why aren't their cameras inside the cells?" and "why wasn't there a guard watching him 24/7?"

No prisoner has warranted that, let alone some relatively low-risk white collar con. The facilities and procedures for it don't exist. It's not a conspiracy, it's how prisons are run.

Lmao so basically “don’t post here”
Provide actual evidence or jog on. An impossibly high bar, I know.
 

Mathieran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,595
At this point I don’t believe Epstein was murdered but I wouldn’t be shocked if someone got paid to look the other way while it happened.
 

Cloud-Hidden

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,926
The number of posters (not just you) who display a stunning lack of awareness of prison conditions by asking "why aren't their cameras inside the cells?" and "why wasn't there a guard watching him 24/7?"

No prisoner has warranted that, let alone some relatively low-risk white collar con. The facilities and procedures for it don't exist. It's not a conspiracy, it's how prisons are run.



Provide actual evidence or jog on. An impossibly high bar, I know.
Regarding the bolded - how do *you* know? Genuinely asking. I feel like that's making a bold, blanket assumption that all prisons are funded, constructed, and operated identically, and handle high-profile inmates identically. That seems unlikely.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,134
They didn't hide anything. They all got caught. Then people didn't do their jobs. That only works when no one is looking. That's not the case here with this situation now.

A "misjudged" psyche eval is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. It's another example where the less evidence there is, the more it seems likely in your scenario. Again it's not rational. And the hyper competence is required of those people orchestrating this "misjudgment." If you think that gets done without any evidence being created it's clear you haven't really been looking at everything that's been going on. These folks have relied for decades on people just not looking.
What do you mean they didn't hide anything? What do you think they were doing before they got caught the first time? What do you think has been going on prior to him getting caught the second time? Literal conspiracy.

They didn't rely on people just not looking, they relied on people looking the other way.

By your logic, it's only rational to be skeptical AFTER obtaining evidence. Well, evidence usually doesn't find itself, and will never be found without some level of skepticism.
 
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Yesterday

Member
Oct 27, 2017
557
The number of posters (not just you) who display a stunning lack of awareness of prison conditions by asking "why aren't their cameras inside the cells?" and "why wasn't there a guard watching him 24/7?"

No prisoner has warranted that, let alone some relatively low-risk white collar con. The facilities and procedures for it don't exist. It's not a conspiracy, it's how prisons are run.



Provide actual evidence or jog on. An impossibly high bar, I know.
This isnt a mere white collar con. This guy was responsible for facilitating some heinous shit and had dirt on the ones funding the mentioned heinous shit. This guy should have been in a magneto glass prison with all the dirt he had on some of the most powerful people in our society. His death just proves nothing is going to happen to these sick fucks and that justice is a lie in our current system
 
Oct 31, 2017
2,263
The number of posters (not just you) who display a stunning lack of awareness of prison conditions by asking "why aren't their cameras inside the cells?" and "why wasn't there a guard watching him 24/7?"

No prisoner has warranted that, let alone some relatively low-risk white collar con. The facilities and procedures for it don't exist. It's not a conspiracy, it's how prisons are run.



Provide actual evidence or jog on. An impossibly high bar, I know.
That's no excuse due to the nature of the situation. "Oh, but no prisoner gets that treatment". I'm not saying that there should have been a camera pointed at the man, but considering that there was previous suicide worry/risk with him, yet his imprisonment conditions were lax enough that he had a window to do this, is ridiculous.

And "relatively low-risk white collar con" is absurd. I don't know how you could classify him as low-risk considering the nature of his crimes and the nature of his connections. Those two things have to make him high-risk for foul play, either self-inflicted or from an external source. I mean, come on.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,116
Netherlands
You don't sound like a nutcase for questioning something so bizarre.
I also wonder what exactly he hung himself with. Obviously they're under no obligation to tell anyone, but as I understand the materials in prison (bedding, clothing) are weaved in such a way as not to be able to withstand a lot of tear pressure (not just for suicide I presume but also escape attempts). I'm not an expert in this though, but if that's true, it's not just negligence in not having a cellmate or frequent check ups, but also in materials that can even be used for hanging.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,145
No prisoner has warranted that, let alone some relatively low-risk white collar con. The facilities and procedures for it don't exist. It's not a conspiracy, it's how prisons are run
Sex trafficking of minors isn’t a white collar crime and he was deemed an incredibly high risk hence no bail. What are you talking about?
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,808
I also wonder what exactly he hung himself with. Obviously they're under no obligation to tell anyone, but as I understand the materials in prison (bedding, clothing) are weaved in such a way as not to be able to withstand a lot of tear pressure (not just for suicide I presume but also escape attempts). I'm not an expert in this though, but if that's true, it's not just negligence in not having a cellmate or frequent check ups, but also in materials that can even be used for hanging.
It's all very murky and we'll never know entirely what happened I presume. If this was a matter of negligence then someone needs to be punished. When things like this happen and no one gets punished it just causes more uncertainty and confusion. Someone needs to lose a job. It's the only way to unearth anything that might be there or to put to rest any suspicion that might be there. When no one is punished it makes people think everyone was just following instructions. In that case a higher up needs to lose their job.

We are talking about a criminal responsible for countless destroyed lives of children and women over many decades that will now never answer for his crimes or help authorities catch other sex traffickers or the vile elite that molested his recruits. This can't be hand waved away without the direct accountability of the persons in charge of his care.
 

Evildeadhead

Member
Oct 26, 2017
670


The New York Times @nytimes

Breaking News: Jeffrey Epstein was left alone and not closely monitored before his suicide, in apparent violation of jail procedures, officials said https://nyti.ms/31uEwiW

11:10 AM - Aug 11, 2019


Michael Del Moro @MikeDelMoro

NEW: The NY Times reports Epstein was supposed to be checked on every 30 minutes, but the procedure wasn’t followed the night before he was found dead. He was left alone without a cell mate in violation of the jail’s normal procedure. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/nyregion/epstein-death-manhattan-correctional-center.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share …

11:14 AM - Aug 11, 2019
Looks like they didn’t read the staff post.
 

#Senpai

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,087
Texas
The one question I have here is this: If a lot of the beloved political figures of Era end up wrapped in all this, then what? I’m not sitting here worried about if they’re Left or Right; I want justice for these children and young people.
 

Metallix87

Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,445
The one question I have here is this: If a lot of the beloved political figures of Era end up wrapped in all this, then what? I’m not sitting here worried about if they’re Left or Right; I want justice for these children and young people.
Democrat, Republican, leftist, alt-right, whatever: Anyone involved in this shit should be arrested when the evidence comes out. Unfortunately, I worry his death, whatever you believe about it, will decrease the odds of the full truth coming to light.
 

#Senpai

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,087
Texas
Democrat, Republican, leftist, alt-right, whatever: Anyone involved in this shit should be arrested when the evidence comes out. Unfortunately, I worry his death, whatever you believe about it, will decrease the odds of the full truth coming to light.
I think the information is known. I think it will come out, but his death sure does throw a wrench in the mess. I’m with you on this, but I feel some will have take their blinders off. If Trump is clean, then let it be. If Clinton is dirty, don’t point to Trump. If Trump is proven involved, hang him. But leave party out of this. These victims should be our priority, not Left or Right.
 

Idolvo

The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
4,284
I can see why so many are looking at a conspiracy theory. For me it's really gonna depend on how the rest will be handled.
If they are gonna bury everything I'm inclined to believe foul play.

But if anything happens to Ghislain Maxwell, this ain't no suicide.

The one question I have here is this: If a lot of the beloved political figures of Era end up wrapped in all this, then what? I’m not sitting here worried about if they’re Left or Right; I want justice for these children and young people.
Most likely it's a mix of both. But wether left, center or right (or unaffiliated) they need to go to jail for a very long time.
 

Noodle

Member
Aug 22, 2018
1,114
Regarding the bolded - how do *you* know? Genuinely asking. I feel like that's making a bold, blanket assumption that all prisons are funded, constructed, and operated identically, and handle high-profile inmates identically. That seems unlikely.
From reading and the odd crime doc. Sort of like when people say "why didn't they just shoot them in the leg?" during cop deaths you just know that's not realistically feasible. Prisons are by no means identical, but none of them are going to have personnel dedicated to a single prisoner. Prisons are massive and there's a limit to the number of cameras you can feasibly put in there and have watched. They will always prioritise views that can frame the largest areas. They also have to be out of reach otherwise they'll just be vandalised.

That's no excuse due to the nature of the situation. "Oh, but no prisoner gets that treatment". I'm not saying that there should have been a camera pointed at the man, but considering that there was previous suicide worry/risk with him, yet his imprisonment conditions were lax enough that he had a window to do this, is ridiculous.

And "relatively low-risk white collar con" is absurd. I don't know how you could classify him as low-risk considering the nature of his crimes and the nature of his connections. Those two things have to make him high-risk for foul play, either self-inflicted or from an external source. I mean, come on.
This isnt a mere white collar con. This guy was responsible for facilitating some heinous shit and had dirt on the ones funding the mentioned heinous shit.
Prisons don't care how "significant" the crime is politically or societally. What is considered "high-risk" to them are gang leaders who are likely to incite violence between members and try to conduct crimes from within prison, or star witnesses. You might look at who he ran with and exclaim "but it's obvious!", but Epstein hadn't turned state witness, none of the other have been formally indicted, and unless there was a direct link to an organised crime family with a known history of bumping off people, that's all they need to ignore it.

With suicide, even the most intense watch is a guard checking on you every hour and making a genuine attempt to engage you in conversation through the doorhatch. Prisons are run by the bare minimum they can get away with. To guards, an important prisoner is like saying the cleanest mud or the driest water. It might get them to reconsider lifting a finger but odds are they will still cut every corner and regulation they can. At the lowest end of the "importance" spectrum you have guards betting on when the prisoners will off themselves. It shouldn't be surprising that the top end of the spectrum only stretches to them skipping on regs like making sure he has a cellmate.

This guy should have been in a magneto glass prison with all the dirt he had on some of the most powerful people in our society.
The former don't exist and prisons don't care about the latter.

Sex trafficking of minors isn’t a white collar crime and he was deemed an incredibly high risk hence no bail. What are you talking about?
High risk of fleeing, not causing violence. Something that's considerably mitigated by being in prison, hence no bail.
 
Jan 10, 2018
3,697
Let me try to put it in perspective:

1. Higher ups knew they had someone in their cell who had massive dirt on alot of people, potentially including their boss

2. They knew he already tried to commit suicide

3. They knew their staff is not enough and overworked

4. They continued with business as usual
 

KingM

Member
Oct 28, 2017
895
Epstein saw that he wasn't going to get away with his pedophilia anymore and he offed himself instead of facing responsibility. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best one.
And the average prison guard isn't going to put too much effort into the care of some piece of shit who spent decades raping kids. If he offs himself it's a big "oh well."
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
4,829
The number of posters (not just you) who display a stunning lack of awareness of prison conditions by asking "why aren't their cameras inside the cells?" and "why wasn't there a guard watching him 24/7?"

No prisoner has warranted that, let alone some relatively low-risk white collar con. The facilities and procedures for it don't exist. It's not a conspiracy, it's how prisons are run.

Provide actual evidence or jog on. An impossibly high bar, I know.
New York Times said:
Mr. Epstein was supposed to have been checked by the two guards in the protective housing unit every 30 minutes, but that procedure was not followed that night, a law-enforcement official with knowledge of his detention said.

In addition, because Mr. Epstein may have tried to commit suicide three weeks earlier, he was supposed to have had another inmate in his cell, two officials said. But the jail had recently transferred his cellmate and allowed Mr. Epstein to be housed alone, a decision that also violated the jail’s procedures, the two officials said.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
6,248
Inmate neglect is built into the criminal justice system.

As much as it seems that specific foul play would be necessary for something like this to occur, laziness and contempt cover 99% of these incidents that happen every day.

The cops just seriously don't give a shit, and they never get in real trouble for breaking their own rules.
 

Scrooge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
566
Yep. The weak explanations are coming forth as expected. Shame we'll never know the truth. Power and wealth win again.