Jeffrey Epstein Commits Suicide in Cell (See Staff Post)

anamika

Member
May 18, 2018
555
The guards responsible are definitely in deep shit. If video recordings show that they didn't do their rounds as instructed they'll definitely be canned. But sending them to prison for life over it? That's crazy.
While a life sentence for this is indeed crazy, I find it hard to sympathize with the guards at this prison if they do get jail time for being negligent with Epstein. As per this article:


guards working in MMC are responsible for some terrible human rights abuses at this prison, including sadistically inflicting punishment on prisoners for making the smallest mistakes. Prisoners have been beaten to death there by guards.

“You have someone who’s beaten to death in MCC, and there are cameras everywhere,” Laufer said. “There’s not an inch of that facility that is not surveilled. No one cares.”

Several prisoners told Gothamist that they had been physically assaulted by staff. “I ended up catching a new charge in MCC for defending myself,” said Fabian Morrison in a letter. “A crazy officer… attacked me and I defended myself, I’m the seventh inmate he put hands on. He is really fucked up in the head from the military.”

Moreover, at the hearing, the DHO is often evaluating the prisoner’s word against that of the officer, so challenging the allegations can feel pointless. "There's an impunity that the officers [at MCC] have to enforce discipline without any recourse, which allows a kind of arbitrary scheme,” said Kunstler.

Sally Butler, another attorney who has represented individuals locked up at MCC, says she encourages her clients do whatever they can to stay out of the crosshairs of correctional officers. “If the officer says jump, you jump,” she said.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,478
The guy literally got off with a slap in the wrist for sexually assaulting minors years ago, and you think it's scary that people suspect that he might be at the center of a second conspiracy?
Yes, because the word "conspiracy" does not make those 2 things equal... obviously.


Instead of imagining Agent 47 going in there and throwing a screwdriver into his head. I imagine more that people were paid to keep him out of suicide watch. Why pay an assassin when the guy is willing to do it himself if you give him the opportunity.
So you think the chief psyhologist got paid to put him out of suicide watch, as he's the only one who could do it? Don't you think it's a risky move with no guaranteed pay-off?

Is there any proof of that or are we gonna put this guys character and professionalism in question?

I mean you're implying that this guy got money in exchange of killing a person.

I don't think this is how real life works, if you get offered money to let a dude die in real life you call the police. And with a big case like this you call your friends as well, and maybe the media. But what you don't do is accept this crazy deal. Which I don't think anyone would be that crazy to offer anyway

So no, I don't think anyone got paid to either kill him or let him die
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,640
You don't need to pay someone off, not saying it's true or anything but a threat to family could work, a promotion along with it or a promotion, things like that.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,134
Yes, because the word "conspiracy" does not make those 2 things equal... obviously.

Noone got there and killed Epstein
Yeah, no one else has to physically kill him for their to be a plot to have him die before trial. He was suicidal.

It sounds like he was removed from Suicide Watch, placed in a cell alone, with patrolling officers who ultimately broke protocol. If ANY of this was intentional so that he'd have more opportunities to kill himself, then you've got your conspiracy. It's not that deep.

I think people have gotten too used to "conspiracy theories" being laughably complex and coordinated plots to the point where we are programmed to think conspiracies don't happen at all.
 

Sandersson

Member
Feb 5, 2018
1,625
So you think the chief psyhologist got paid to put him out of suicide watch, as he's the only one who could do it? Don't you think it's a risky move with no guaranteed pay-off?
Obviously "getting paid to do X" would be the guaranteed pay-off.

Besides, people do risky stuff all the time. After Epstein got the first pedo charges he wasnt even hiding the fact that he was flowing underage girls to his island. Vanity Fair had a story about how the workers at the airport were wondering how he has the balls to do it in daylight.

I dont think you need to be Alex Jones to understand that this suicide is suspect af and extremely convenient.
 

Br3wnor

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,164
Yes, because the word "conspiracy" does not make those 2 things equal... obviously.




So you think the chief psyhologist got paid to put him out of suicide watch, as he's the only one who could do it? Don't you think it's a risky move with no guaranteed pay-off?

Is there any proof of that or are we gonna put this guys character and professionalism in question?

I mean you're implying that this guy got money in exchange of killing a person.

I don't think this is how real life works, if you get offered money to let a dude die in real life you call the police. And with a big case like this you call your friends as well, and maybe the media. But what you don't do is accept this crazy deal. Which I don't think anyone would be that crazy to offer anyway

So no, I don't think anyone got paid to either kill him or let him die
There are literally hit men in the world who kill people for money. Like that’s their job.
 

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,358
Columbia, SC
Yeah, no one else has to physically kill him for their to be a plot to have him die before trial. He was suicidal.

It sounds like he was removed from Suicide Watch, placed in a cell alone, with patrolling officers who ultimately broke protocol. If ANY of this was intentional so that he'd have more opportunities to kill himself, then you've got your conspiracy. It's not that deep.

I think people have gotten too used to "conspiracy theories" being laughably complex and coordinated plots to the point where we are programmed to think conspiracies don't happen at all.
The thing about this is that there are so many angles that could lead to this man's death that even if the simple cold hard truth about his death were laid bare you'd still have a number of people either questioning it or outright rejecting it.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,478
Obviously "getting paid to do X" would be the guaranteed pay-off.

Besides, people do risky stuff all the time. After Epstein got the first pedo charges he wasnt even hiding the fact that he was flowing underage girls to his island. Vanity Fair had a story about how the workers at the airport were wondering how he has the balls to do it in daylight.

I dont think you need to be Alex Jones to understand that this suicide is suspect af and extremely convenient.
What does what Epstein did have to do with the fact that the Head Psychologist would do a "risky thing", like kill one of his patients?

Can you guys see that without any proof this is clearly in the conspiracy theory territory?
 

dragonbane

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,444
Germany
I honestly think he did hang himself, but was probably nicely asked to do so or they would see to his death in prison later by hiring some gang. So with it being inevitable might as well take the quick exit and shield your pedo friends.

A suicide can still be externally motivated or encouraged which I'm sure is what happened here
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,134
Yes, because the word "conspiracy" does not make those 2 things equal... obviously.


So you think the chief psyhologist got paid to put him out of suicide watch, as he's the only one who could do it? Don't you think it's a risky move with no guaranteed pay-off?

Is there any proof of that or are we gonna put this guys character and professionalism in question?

I mean you're implying that this guy got money in exchange of killing a person.

I don't think this is how real life works, if you get offered money to let a dude die in real life you call the police. And with a big case like this you call your friends as well, and maybe the media. But what you don't do is accept this crazy deal. Which I don't think anyone would be that crazy to offer anyway

So no, I don't think anyone got paid to either kill him or let him die
Wait, are you arguing that, in the real world, all doctors are against giving misdiagnosis for personal gain?

The thing about this is that there are so many angles that could lead to this man's death that even if the simple cold hard truth about his death were laid bare you'd still have a number of people either questioning it or outright rejecting it.
Well, people SHOULD skeptical by default. It would be nice if would could trust authorities to investigate impartially, but since we can't, so here we are.
 
Last edited:

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,478
Wait, are you arguing that, in the real world, all doctors are against giving misdiagnosis for personal gain?



Well, people SHOULD skeptical by default. It would be nice if would could trust authorities to investigate impartially, but since we can't, so here we are.
The fact that "not all doctors are 100% clean" has nothing to do with this case. This is an absurd argument
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,134
The fact that "not all doctors are 100% clean" has nothing to do with this case. This is an absurd argument
I think it's absurd to say that 'in the real world' doctors don't take bribes and to use such a demonstrably false notion as the basis of your conclusion.

Whether or not that happened here... Who knows atm. But Authorities should definitely be investigating the circumstances surrounding him being taken off of suicide watch.

How is it absurd to be skeptical? If there was some impropriety in this regard, we wouldn't know immediately after this guy died and we'd never know it if isn't investigated.
 
Last edited:

Landy828

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,712
Clemson, SC
I mean you're implying that this guy got money in exchange of killing a person.

I don't think this is how real life works, if you get offered money to let a dude die in real life you call the police. And with a big case like this you call your friends as well, and maybe the media. But what you don't do is accept this crazy deal. Which I don't think anyone would be that crazy to offer anyway.
Conspiracy theory or not, are you serious with this?

You really think this doesn't happen with Billionaires/Millionaires? That horrible people with money don't "off"/"get rid of" problems?

People hire hit-men for less offenses.

If someone offers a guy $30 Million (no idea what the amount would be) dollars to off a Pedophile, you think he (or many other people) would go...."Nah, I think I'll call the cops."
 

Laser Man

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,185
I honestly think he did hang himself, but was probably nicely asked to do so or they would see to his death in prison later by hiring some gang. So with it being inevitable might as well take the quick exit and shield your pedo friends.

A suicide can still be externally motivated or encouraged which I'm sure is what happened here
After having seen some "Fresh out" episodes on YT, there was no need to hire anyone. It seems it's prison politics when they put another inmate in his cell that inmate has to handle business or that inmate get's problems himself with other inmates! Wardens are aware and probably didn't care.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,134
Conspiracy theory or not, are you serious with this?

You really think this doesn't happen with Billionaires/Millionaires? That horrible people with money don't "off"/"get rid of" problems?

People hire hit-men for less offenses.

If someone offers a guy $30 Million (no idea what the amount would be) dollars to off a Pedophile, you think he (or many other people) would go...."Nah, I think I'll call the cops."
Like you said, people have been know to do shit like this for less... A quick Google search would net you a handful of doctors charged/convicted of conspiracy to commit murder, run drug rings, or massive insurance fraud - all from 2019.

Its absurd to criticize skepticism based on the notion that "people don't really do these things "
 
Last edited:

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,237



Aaron Blake @AaronBlake

Attorney General Barr blames federal jail for ‘failure’ to keep Jeffrey Epstein alive https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/national/wp/2019/08/12/attorney-general-blames-federal-jail-for-failure-to-keep-jeffrey-epstein-alive/?tid=ss_tw …

11:21 AM - Aug 12, 2019



MSNBC @MSNBC

NEW: AG Barr on the "failure to adequately secure" Jeffrey Epstein:

“We are now learning of serious irregularities at this facility that are deeply concerning and demand a thorough investigation."

11:17 AM - Aug 12, 2019



NPR @NPR

JUST IN: Attorney General William Barr says the Department of Justice has learned of “serious irregularities” at the federal facility where Jeffery Epstein died and that the department’s Inspector General will “get the bottom of what happened.”


AG Barr said the sex trafficking investigation that was being conducted remains important and that it will continue.

“Any co-conspirators should not rest easy,” he said.

11:24 AM - Aug 12, 2019
 

Sabot

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,115


Not posting the tweet source because it could derail, but this is totally feeding into conspiratorial thought. Why not just get a regular doctor, and not the dude who is the Forest Gump of forensic pathology. If there's still an Epstein camp out there, they are tryin some shit.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,622
I have no faith in our justice system.

And with Trump as President, I have no faith in our government.

Trump has a mobster mentality and he admires dictators, oligarchs and acts of absolute power.

Nothing would shock me with his being involved, either directly or indirectly.

As we've seen with Michael Cohen, there are a lot of pathetic people who will do stuff to help Donald Trump for a return favor of some sort.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,237


Not posting the tweet source because it could derail, but this is totally feeding into conspiratorial thought. Why not just get a regular doctor, and not the dude who is the Forest Gump of forensic pathology. If there's still an Epstein camp out there, they are tryin some shit.
Epstein's lawyers hired Baden to observe because they're probably going to sue the government for wrongful death on behalf of Epstein's estate.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,905
Not posting the tweet source because it could derail, but this is totally feeding into conspiratorial thought. Why not just get a regular doctor, and not the dude who is the Forest Gump of forensic pathology. If there's still an Epstein camp out there, they are tryin some shit.
LOL THAT HISTORY THEY'RE NOT EVEN TRYING THIS COUNTRY IS CORRUPT AS FUCK
 

KHarvey16

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,895
This is why “skepticism” is usually a disingenuous label for those who really just want to push conspiracy theories. A private pathologist observing an autopsy performed by the ME is met with “SEE I KNEW IT!” It’s just multiple attempts at uninformed jumps to a conclusion you’ve already settled on every time someone tweets something. It’s a real time Gish gallop. The data is all shaped and re-contextualized to fit the result you want over and over.
 

lmcfigs

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,850
This is why “skepticism” is usually a disingenuous label for those who really just want to push conspiracy theories. A private pathologist observing an autopsy performed by the ME is met with “SEE I KNEW IT!” It’s just multiple attempts at uninformed jumps to a conclusion you’ve already settled on every time someone tweets something. It’s a real time Gish gallop. The data is all shaped and re-contextualized to fit the result you want over and over.
It doesn’t help that the guy in question is (apparently) a participant in the two most widely believed conspiracy theories in American history, the assassinations of JFK and MLK. Like what even is a normal reaction to this situation. It’s insane.
 

Aselith

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,260


Not posting the tweet source because it could derail, but this is totally feeding into conspiratorial thought. Why not just get a regular doctor, and not the dude who is the Forest Gump of forensic pathology. If there's still an Epstein camp out there, they are tryin some shit.
Maybe he's a highly respected and well known pathologist which is why he's involved in all of these cases?
 

lmcfigs

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,850
Maybe he's a highly respected and well known pathologist which is why he's involved in all of these cases?
Probably not that good judging by his Wikipedia page

Edit: it looks like I was looking at the wrong wiki page earlier.The person I was looking at had several complaints about his work and at least 1 lawsuit against him.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,237

better late than never, I guess
NBC News also reporting:

Tom Winter @Tom_Winter

BREAKING / NBC News: Two senior law enforcement officials say that the FBI and members of the task force belonging to the Manhattan U.S. Attorney's Office focusing on the Jeffrey Epstein investigation are searching his home in the Virgin Islands.

Reported w/ @jonathan4ny
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1161005746001240065
4:05 PM - Aug 12, 2019
 

Grimminski

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,017
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania



Aaron Blake @AaronBlake

Attorney General Barr blames federal jail for ‘failure’ to keep Jeffrey Epstein alive https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/national/wp/2019/08/12/attorney-general-blames-federal-jail-for-failure-to-keep-jeffrey-epstein-alive/?tid=ss_tw …

11:21 AM - Aug 12, 2019



MSNBC @MSNBC

NEW: AG Barr on the "failure to adequately secure" Jeffrey Epstein:

“We are now learning of serious irregularities at this facility that are deeply concerning and demand a thorough investigation."

11:17 AM - Aug 12, 2019



NPR @NPR

JUST IN: Attorney General William Barr says the Department of Justice has learned of “serious irregularities” at the federal facility where Jeffery Epstein died and that the department’s Inspector General will “get the bottom of what happened.”


AG Barr said the sex trafficking investigation that was being conducted remains important and that it will continue.

“Any co-conspirators should not rest easy,” he said.

11:24 AM - Aug 12, 2019