Hmmmmmmmm......Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......not suspicious at all...nope, not one bit. Just coincidences everywhere. No smoke from this obvious blazing dumpster fire right here that I'm pointing at.
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Jeffrey Epstein Commits Suicide in Cell (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter RDreamer
- Start date
Hmmmmmmmm......Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......not suspicious at all...nope, not one bit. Just coincidences everywhere. No smoke from this obvious blazing dumpster fire right here that I'm pointing at.
It wouldn't surprise me if they did. There is a document that you have to put down the times you do your rounds. Some officers would pencil whip it or put down incorrect times. DOJ OIG came in once and give us a huge spiel about what would happen if you falsified documents.
There is a lot of complacency and incompetence at these facilities.
So I'll post this one last time. I'd like to know what others think. Maybe people haven't responded because of cognitive dissonance. It's not nice to think a victim may be lying. But check this article out. It's based on the unsealed documents. Basically Giuffre seems to be taking suggestions on men she should accuse. It's definitely troubling.
But Dershowitz claims one document in particular also poses a problem for Giuffre: a 2011 email exchange between her and a British tabloid reporter who had interviewed her about her years under Epstein's sway.
In the email, Giuffre told the Mail on Sunday reporter, Sharon Churcher, she was racing to meet a deadline for a draft of what she would later describe as a "fictionalized account" of what happened to her.
"Just wondering if you have any information on you from when you and I were doing interviews about the J.E. story," Giuffre wrote Churcher.
"I wanted to put the names of some of the assholes, oops, I meant to say, pedo's, that J.E. sent me to. With everything going on, my brain feels like mush and it would be a great deal of help!" Giuffre added.
The emails in the court file shows Churcher responded: "Don't forget Alan Dershowitz… J.E.'s buddy and lawyer...good name for your pitch as he repped Claus von Bulow and a movie was made about that case… title was Reversal of Fortune. We all suspect Alan is a pedo and tho no proof of that, you probably met him when he was hanging out with JE."
Giuffre's reply contained no reference to Dershowitz, just a simple, "Thanks again Shazza, I'm bringing down the house with this book!!"
But Dershowitz claims one document in particular also poses a problem for Giuffre: a 2011 email exchange between her and a British tabloid reporter who had interviewed her about her years under Epstein's sway.
In the email, Giuffre told the Mail on Sunday reporter, Sharon Churcher, she was racing to meet a deadline for a draft of what she would later describe as a "fictionalized account" of what happened to her.
"Just wondering if you have any information on you from when you and I were doing interviews about the J.E. story," Giuffre wrote Churcher.
"I wanted to put the names of some of the assholes, oops, I meant to say, pedo's, that J.E. sent me to. With everything going on, my brain feels like mush and it would be a great deal of help!" Giuffre added.
The emails in the court file shows Churcher responded: "Don't forget Alan Dershowitz… J.E.'s buddy and lawyer...good name for your pitch as he repped Claus von Bulow and a movie was made about that case… title was Reversal of Fortune. We all suspect Alan is a pedo and tho no proof of that, you probably met him when he was hanging out with JE."
Giuffre's reply contained no reference to Dershowitz, just a simple, "Thanks again Shazza, I'm bringing down the house with this book!!"
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I completely believe that's the case, but the thing that will always be hard to believe is that they didn't treat Epstein at least a little bit differently than your average inmate. Like, you couldn't even give him the special treatment of simply following procedure?
Officers, Guards, or whomever routinely falsify checks and paperwork. There is usually buttons, switches, forms that need to be filled out/logged/pressed throughout the route.
The issue is almost no one checks those logs unless something happens then the guard/officer is screwed. It is usually never an issue and for these officers the last time anything of importance occurred was 2 decades earlier. So the officers falsifying documents is reasonable (it doesn't matter who the prisoner is).
The issue is the entirety of extenuating circumstances and one off chances.
Taken off suicide watch, other prisoner removed, guards screw up, cameras malfunction, etc.
I still believe he committed suicide and likely won't change my opinion unless those guards or the warden wind up dead within a few months.
The issue is almost no one checks those logs unless something happens then the guard/officer is screwed. It is usually never an issue and for these officers the last time anything of importance occurred was 2 decades earlier. So the officers falsifying documents is reasonable (it doesn't matter who the prisoner is).
The issue is the entirety of extenuating circumstances and one off chances.
Taken off suicide watch, other prisoner removed, guards screw up, cameras malfunction, etc.
I still believe he committed suicide and likely won't change my opinion unless those guards or the warden wind up dead within a few months.
It's the kind of thing that happens everyday in prisons. Prison suicide is an epidemic the vast majority don't care about. If he was some no name molester it wouldn't even be a footnote in a local newspaper.
There's been a few scandals with prison guards working multiple overtime shifts in a row and sleeping through half of them.
Yes, officers fall asleep, especially on morning watch. There is nothing to do besides your rounds and counts. The hardest part about morning watch is staying awake, especially when you have been working seven days straight and now doing an 16 hour shift.
Nothing they said so far surprises me. All this stuff happens. The only reason we are hearing about this one is because of him being high profile. If this was just an average inmate all of this what have been handled internally and swept under the rug.
Nothing they said so far surprises me. All this stuff happens. The only reason we are hearing about this one is because of him being high profile. If this was just an average inmate all of this what have been handled internally and swept under the rug.
I think the only counter to this is that he wasn't a no name molester, he was extremely high profile.
What response are you looking for aside from... "okay?"
She may have been lying, sure. But we have a mountain of other evidence that isn't, so it's really neither here nor there. Unless you're suggesting he's innocent, it's just irrelevant.
Falsifying rape is just "okay"? Gee the cognitive dissonance is big here. But what is the other mountain of evidence anyway? Wasn't she the only one that accused Dershowitz?
If you're main argument is defending Dershowitz, I'd ask why you think a thread about Epstein's suicide is the one to bring it up in. I don't think Epstein killing himself had anything to do with it.
Are you really trying to defend someone who argued that it's unconstitutional that he can't fuck a 15 year old?
El Chapo Guzman was under strict 24/7 camera surveillance pending his trial, he was roomed 3 cell blocks away from Epstein' cell.
it is safe to ask questions why the strict surveillance priority given to Guzman was not applied to Epstein.
it is safe to ask questions why the strict surveillance priority given to Guzman was not applied to Epstein.
now, let's think about why this situation is (possibly) different than your average prison suicide
El Chapo had broken out of prison before so there is atleast a slight difference.
There was a second accusation. Really good article in the New Yorker a few weeks ago about Dershowitz and his involvement with Epstein that everyone should check out.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/08/05/alan-dershowitz-devils-advocate/amp
Maybe not quite enough to justify going from 24 hour surveillance to sleeping guards falsifying reports while the warden blocks suicide watch.
From an interview with Epstein former bodyguard, highlights include:
- Extremely nervous demeanour throughout
- Saying that the local police would tell Epstein what time they were coming the next day
- Straight up saying that Epstein "had help" committing suicide
It's pretty depressing that the response to this is, "of course he's dead, people kill themselves all the time in jail, the guards are overworked and the conditions are deplorable, why is everyone making a big deal out of this?" We've had a month of Americans complaining about the condition of ASAP Rocky's incarceration in Sweden, and even Jared fucking Kushner is on a personal crusade for prison reform, and there are people out there that still don't care about what happened to Epstein.
Matthew Yglesias on his recent The Weeds podcast makes a good point comparing this to the Kennedy assassination. Sure, Oswald did it, and fine, he was killed by a mob-connected gunman before trial who later died in jail of cancer awaiting retrial, that's probably all a coincidence... But they needed to write the Warren commission report. There were changes made to how the secret service performed its duties because of recommendations and finding made from that report. And while the Warren commission didn't stop all the conspiracy theorists, to simply say, "hey, the president was assassinated and his assassin was assassinated while in custody, let's all just move on," would be utter insanity. Plus, auditing the prison system in America is necessary.
There needs to be a huge spotlight on the Epstein affair going forward.
Matthew Yglesias on his recent The Weeds podcast makes a good point comparing this to the Kennedy assassination. Sure, Oswald did it, and fine, he was killed by a mob-connected gunman before trial who later died in jail of cancer awaiting retrial, that's probably all a coincidence... But they needed to write the Warren commission report. There were changes made to how the secret service performed its duties because of recommendations and finding made from that report. And while the Warren commission didn't stop all the conspiracy theorists, to simply say, "hey, the president was assassinated and his assassin was assassinated while in custody, let's all just move on," would be utter insanity. Plus, auditing the prison system in America is necessary.
There needs to be a huge spotlight on the Epstein affair going forward.
This has been bothering me recently because the guy you were responding to seems to think Dershowitz was somehow vindicated by that phrasing in the doc drop.
But regardless of his guilt or innocence as I understood it, Dershowitz 's "gotcha see I couldn't have done the thing I just excruciatingly defended in a weird little essay apropos of nothing" not only has nothing to do with the way he was denying involvement before the release of those documents, it also relies on the bland wording of an unanswered statement made by a separate person talking to his accuser - not the accuser themself. The accuser simply stayed silent while the third person reeled off a list of possibilities.
It wouldn't fly in court at all and I'm surprised the press isn't clearing up that item.
I mean if you ignore almost every aspect of the case, sure, this makes sense. A billionaire pedophile with connections to multiple powerful intelligence agencies and possible dirt on countless high-status players, whose suicide would require a Final Destination-esque confluence of happenings? At a bare minimum, extreme scrutiny is required here.
Oh come on.
It wouldn't at all surprise me if somebody helped him out but he wasn't in fucking Supermax here.
The guard working a 60 hour work week of overnights for $20-30 /hour simply doesn't give a shit. Every single overnight job with high hours and rotating shifts has people sleeping and generally not caring about much except wanting it to be go home time. Anyone who's ever worked from 6pm to 6am is more interested in a 5am catnap or skipping their hourly duties for an extra game of angry birds on the shitter, it's human nature. Camera business is fishy sure, but the human element of the sleepy guard pencil whipping duties 50 hours into his work week here isn't at all out of the ordinary tbh. No lower/middle class paid guard gives a damn about any prisoner if they're that tired. Put yourself in his shoes; 16 hour work day into the middle of the night ; you feel under appreciated and just don't care. Some scumbag prisoner might kill himself on your watch? "Meh whatever, I'm tired, prison should've had cameras". Looking to blame the guards is an extreme scapegoat when higherups are certainly well aware of this aspect and probably are giggling anytime the media points the finger at some patsy instead of the other more important ignored fallthroughs
El Chapo had a camera on him 24/7
why wasn't the camera on Epstein 24/7 just three cells down the hall?
why wasn't the camera on Epstein 24/7 just three cells down the hall?
Most prison cameras have their color balance settings way off by default and have trouble picking up white. Police departments buy the same cameras in bulk.
This is fucked up. And most certainly, there is smoke. This shit is wayyy too convenient.
Carol Leonnig @CarolLeonnig
NEW >>>> Jeff Epstein autopsy found multiple neck bone fractures, which can be caused by suicidal hanging -- but are more commonly found in homicidal strangulation.
The mystery deepens about the death of a billionaire w secrets
Me w @byaaroncdavis http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/autopsy-finds-broken-bones-in-jeffrey-epsteins-neck-deepening-questions-around-his-death/2019/08/14/d09ac934-bdd9-11e9-b873-63ace636af08_story.html …
11:33 PM - Aug 14, 2019
NEW >>>> Jeff Epstein autopsy found multiple neck bone fractures, which can be caused by suicidal hanging -- but are more commonly found in homicidal strangulation.
The mystery deepens about the death of a billionaire w secrets
Me w @byaaroncdavis http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/autopsy-finds-broken-bones-in-jeffrey-epsteins-neck-deepening-questions-around-his-death/2019/08/14/d09ac934-bdd9-11e9-b873-63ace636af08_story.html …
11:33 PM - Aug 14, 2019
Ok.
I'm going with probably murdered.
Never mind my previous statements. I stand corrected.
I don't believe for a second he could hang himself that good, he's a wimp. Really.
I honestly thought it would be a suffocating hanging.
Let's see the hallway video.
I'm going with probably murdered.
Never mind my previous statements. I stand corrected.
I don't believe for a second he could hang himself that good, he's a wimp. Really.
I honestly thought it would be a suffocating hanging.
Let's see the hallway video.