Thanks for the background, I know very little about internal Israeli stuff beyond some of Rabin's reign.Oh, you guys don't even know what's going on here. I mean dear fucking good. Calling it the equivalent of a deal with David Duke is very very apt.
So. In the 80's there was an ultra-right wing party called Cach, which was led by Rabbi Kahana - And they managed to secure one sit in the Knesset. Their official platform was expelling all Arabs from Israel, outlawing marriage and sexual relations between Jews and gentiles - And more. The works. All parties of the Knesset practically boycotted them, even the Likud (mainstream right wing party, Netanyahu's party) walked out on every one of his speeches. His party was eventually outlawed from running to the Knesset, and was later declared a goddamn terrorist organization because one Kahana's disciples shot up a bunch of people in the Cave of the Patriarch massacre.
So, today there's a party ("Jewish Might") made up mostly of Kahana's desciples, and these are the guys Netanyahu is helping get into the Knesset by merging them into the slightly less insane far-right party (The "Jewish Home" party, which are only proto-fascist rather than full on Nazis.) One of their members, Itamar Ben-Gvir, is a lawyer who represented several right-wing Jewish terrorists, and he has a picture of the aforementioned guy who shot up a bunch of people in the Cave of Patriarch in his living room. Another fan fact: Before PM Rabin was a assassinated, he shot a video of himself touching his car saying "we managed to reach his car, we'll reach Rabin too!" (Rabin was assassinated by a far-right Jewish terrorist.)
It should be noted these guys were actually in the Knesset before, around 2006 I think - As part of the National Union party. But back then they were treated only slightly better than Kahana was. Mainstream parties like the Likud embracing Kahanism (even just to make a political alliance) is frightening.
It's a complicated question. In a recent poll, I think 35% of people saw him as most fit to be PM. So, not the majority, but the plurality.
It should be noted he's deep in about 4 criminal investigations regarding bribery as well.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Jerusalem Post: Netanyahu's coalition collapses; Israel heading to elections on April 9th
- Thread starter Naijaboy
- Start date
Thanks for the background, I know very little about internal Israeli stuff beyond some of Rabin's reign.
You'd think Israel of all places wouldn't want a holocaust revisionist in power but he'll probably win again anyway.
Honestly, with how crazy Israeli politics are, not people in Israel don't exactly follow what's going on anymore.
As for the union on the... I would never call them left, so opposition I guess - I would not be too optimistic. The Israeli opposition is determined to throw away 20% of their potential seats because they refuse to sit with the non-Zionist parties. Given that, even if they become the biggest party, their odds of building a coalition are still slim.
It's the biggest hope for the fall of the ultra-right government we've had in a decade, so at least it's something.
I wouldn't say the non zionist parties would exactly jump into the coalition even if they were asked.
And you could have a minority coalition, if the right can't make a bigger one.
Well, to be fair - Israel is a head of the curve there. We're on fire since '48 😎 (often literally!)
Why would they jump into the coalition with Gantz, who made the equivalency between Balad - A party with the radical evil agenda of "a country for all its citizens" to the fascist, racist Jewish Power as if they're the same. That would show you how much hatred there is towards non-Zionist parties and parties with mostly Arab members. And in his official campaign has literally bragged about how many people he killed in Gaza (fun fact - in that video, the number counted every male casualty in Gaza as a terrorist!)
When I say the opposition is giving up those seats, it's not just because they won't ask (I mean, that to, but that's just the tip of the iceberg) - But because of how they talk, and who they're talking to. The problem is that there's no left in Israel - There's ultra-right, and center-right.
It must suck being anti-racist in Israel.
At this rate, with Palestine being de-facto administered by Israel, I get the impression the only solution is to unify the country, call it "Israel and Palestine", make everybody citizens and call it a day. But from what I hear of Israelis, most people in Israel just understand democracy as "the rule of the majority", and think this would get them all killed in Arab chaos.
How accurate is this? I just see that whoever wins the election, it's going to be horrifying.
Israel will never annex Palestine completely because they'd then have an Arab majority, even if it would be the "easiest" solution - unless they don't give them voting rights, which Likud is now all on board with.
Well, I should be clearer, it's not just "the easiest solution", it's the solution to Apartheid systems, or more the end goal of the solution to Apartheid systems. My question is just whether any Israeli Jews even conceive such idea.
It's fairly accurate in how Israeli society sees it. Most Israelis assume that if, at any point, Arab will become the majority or even a bigger political force, they're gonna kill everyone or ruin the country.
The thing with the two state solution is that there are actually two problems with it:
One, is that it's quickly disappearing as a viable option - thanks to settlements, the separation of Gaza and the West Bank etc.
Second, is that it actually only solve the problem started in 67 - The Israeli occupation of Gaza and the WB. It doesn't address the problem of 48 at all. By that I mean, that even if we have two states - What kind of state would Israel be? How do you deal with the 21% Palestinian population in Israel, how do you give them equal rights? How will Israel acknowledge the mass displacement it has caused during the 48 war?
I don't know what solution is realistic. My dream scenario would be one democratic state (maybe a federated one between Israel and Palestine) - But I don't see how that would be realistic in the foreseeable future.
Well, then that only confirms my impression that it's exactly like in South Africa, where the scary natives would ruin the country.
The two state solution was never going to work because it was always a sham. The Bantustans Apartheid South Africa tried so hard to push and legitimize as the "solution", to the rejection of every other country (Save for Israel) , is what has been pushed by the international community, with the very evident and foreseeable result that it would never happen, because there is no incentive whatsoever for Israel to give up that territory or to abide by the treaties.
Yeah, I've read a few things here or there stating that this is ultimately in his favor.
He hasn't been charged yet. So far the investigations haven't hurt him much, but polls show that could change if he's charged.
well just for the sake of schadenfreude i hope he's charged but for all i know the next fascist maniac who'd be PM would be even worse
don't worry, folks, liberal Zionism is totally grounded in reality and there's totally an Israeli left ready to save the country from itself
If it's Gantz, the current frontrunner - Hard to tell really. On the one hand, he's clearly trying to present himself as more restrained, and as open to dialogue with Palestinians. On the other hand, he needs to prove he's not left wing which might make him more trigger happy - he actively boasts the kill count of the IDF when he was Chief of Staff in his campaign ads...
I'd say he'll be better simply because Netanyahu has willingly sided with the Kahanists while Gantz will most probably go to coalition with the Zionist left, who are a joke but at least they're fairly dovish.
Why not? It's not like their far right are antisemitic neo-nazis, they're militaristic, nationalistic, authoritarian far right types.
Do any of the Israeli ERA people know how the new centre party from Gantz / Lapid is doing? I've not read up on the election much but they seem fairly level headed. Is Lapid still about cost of living type of issues?
It might just be me, but it seems like Netanyahu and Likud have made the same swing as the Republicans in the US have. Ten or so years ago they were right wing, but not raving lunatics. Nowadays I have no idea how anyone could support Netanyahu, surely even if you want a right wing party you're better off with Bennett / Shaked and crew?
OP
OP
You know it's bad when even the AIPAC is condemning the coalition.
https://www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-...-kahanist-party-backed-by-netanyahu-1.6959858
Of course that won't stop them from giving Netanyahu his annual speech.
https://www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-...-kahanist-party-backed-by-netanyahu-1.6959858
Of course that won't stop them from giving Netanyahu his annual speech.
All the recent polls show Netanyahu's Likud being defeated but the Centre-Left bloc being nowhere near being able to create its own coalition. Meanwhile the right are the natural allies of the Ultra-Orthodox so they -might- be able to.
The options are probably (assuming the recent polls are right), and in my opinion in the order of likelihood):
- Blue & White wins, but can't make a coalition so Likud makes a ~61 mandates coalition with the Orthodox and Kulanu.
- Blue & White wins, can't make a coalition but neither can Likud - so they reluctantly make one together.
- Blue & White wins, can't make a coalition but neither can Likud. Make a minority government with the Arabs being a "blocking" bloc.
- Blue & White wins and makes a coalition with the Ultra-Orthodox. Unlikely because of Meretz (and even Lapid) being at odds with them.
If Meretz doesn't go over the 4-seat threshold, Likud creates the coalition.
Polls are still early IMO - Especially while we're still waiting for the hammer to drop on whether Bibi is charged or not. Other than that, I agree with these options.
Another thing, Gesher should not be counted out. They're only slightly below the threshold and their voter base is exactly the kind of people the polls easily miss. Also, one of the people on her list, Carmen Elmakayes, is a personal friend and an awesome human. If anyone here votes to Zionist parties, consider them. If Gesher manages to get in over Kulanu or Yisrael Beitenu the picture is 100% different bloc-wise.
Meretz will go over the threshold regardless, that's about the size of their base IMO - The question is whether Lapid and Gantz will want them in the coalition. If they have to take Meretz, they might prefer to go to a coalition with Likud just to appear more centrist.
Another thing, Gesher should not be counted out. They're only slightly below the threshold and their voter base is exactly the kind of people the polls easily miss. Also, one of the people on her list, Carmen Elmakayes, is a personal friend and an awesome human. If anyone here votes to Zionist parties, consider them. If Gesher manages to get in over Kulanu or Yisrael Beitenu the picture is 100% different bloc-wise.
Meretz will go over the threshold regardless, that's about the size of their base IMO - The question is whether Lapid and Gantz will want them in the coalition. If they have to take Meretz, they might prefer to go to a coalition with Likud just to appear more centrist.
Last edited:
OP
OP
So Gantz spoke at the AIPAC a couple hours ago, and pretty much shared much of Netanyahu's talking points.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1110191537592381441
What's with the pivot?
https://mobile.twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1110191537592381441
What's with the pivot?
It's not a pivot.
1. Gantz is positioning himself as center-right, to Bibi's far right. His main difference from Bibi had more to do with internal policies.
2. Even if Gantz' is actually more left than he's letting on, and willing to make more concessions -saying it during election time is political suicide in Israel.
I hope no one expect anything from Gantz, even on the low chance he's the next PM.