Jillian Micheals " Avoid the Keto Diet at all costs" - Offers little evidence and analysis

[iswasdoes]

...Most of the people who are arguing against the Keto diet in this thread outright admit it can be used to lose weight and live a healthier lifestyle. The argument is that the Keto isn't better than any other diet that lowers your calorie or sugar intake. That, and the longterm effects for using it as a general diet outside of specific cases or purposes (for example, just to lose weight) haven't been studied, and there is actual evidence that drastically cutting down your carb intake combined with high fat consumption isn't optimal.

I mean, if we're using personal experience, I eat an apple pretty regularly and have pasta once a week, but I'm pretty sure I'm not drastically less healthy than anyone on the Keto diet.

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It depends what your metric of better is. If you can live sustainably on a calorie restricted diet, or a Mediterranean diet, then that's great and I wouldn't suggest switching to Keto.

But (and this is a combination of anecdotal and personal evidence) other restrictive diets make people miserable and don't yield results like Keto does.

Also, people concede it helps to lose weight but in a kind of 'just use it sparingly because you know it's damaging to your system' way, which I think is not true and have seen no compelling evidence for

For me the ONLY negative of Keto is it can be antisocial as you are eating different things to other people which can be difficult in some situations. But from a health point of view I've had personally great results (it just weight but blood pressure and fitness, as well as generally feeling better) so I do think it's an objectively great lifestyle. But so is med diet or vegetarianism. But no one seems to go out of their way to shit on those for no reason other than their personal biases

 

[ConanEd]

1) Humans have been on this planet roughly only 300,000 years or less

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Agreed, before half million ago they were different species but the diet were similar

2) ancient humans never ate candies, processed foods, sodas or fast food

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Well I didn't advocate processed sugar. You can eat plenty of carb and fiber without touching processed sugar. That shit is bad.

3) they had to hunt and survive daily for what they ate
4) This isnt meant for people with normal metabolisms

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Hunter gatherer diet is much closer to a balanced diet. What do you think they "gathered", nutritious plants.

5) The side effects are well more documented than any other diet around.

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[/quote]
On a 80% fat Keto diet? No.

 

[Calamari41]

Honestly I'd say the thing that's most difficult about sticking with keto isn't that you get this desire to down a bucket of fries or a large pizza, but rather that almost every convenient food option in our society is carb-focused. You have to work hard to keep your kitchen stocked with snacks that fit the bill, and understand that you are going to be a lot more limited in how much of the menu you can choose from at most restaurants. Then there's situations where you're having dinner at a friend or family member's house and it's not like you're going to give them a list of what it is acceptable for them to serve you beforehand. If they make lasagna, it's easier to just eat it and say thank you.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

I thought the studies showed that high protein/low carb or high fat/low carb diets were unhealthy when tested with mice. There haven't really been any long term studies with it on humans, so it makes sense to be cautious.

Also, avoiding carbs is just plain silly. The populations that live the longest eat plenty of carbs. Exercise and eat your veggies.

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Carbs are a necessary macronutrient for good long term health. How we process and consume them is the issue.

They should be consumed via minimally-processed whole foods, in balance with the rest of the macro nutrients in your diet, and in moderation in absolute terms.

 

[Grouch Douglass]

It seems a lot of people who are against the keto diet are the same kind of people who mock "fatties" and think they are actually helping them by insulting them and making them feel inferior. Do people like that hate fat people so much that they don't even want to see them try something that could help them reach a healthy weight?

"Your diet is stupid b/c I could just count calories and eat McDonalds all day and achieve the same result." GTFO lol

 

[digitalrelic]

Makes sense. Keto is good for weight loss, not fat loss. Most of what you're losing is water.

Edit: avoiding it completely seems stupid, but it definitely isn't as perfect as people make it out to be.

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TIL I had 117lbs of water weight

 

[Advance.Wars.Sgt.]

Been doing it for almost 2 years now. Honostly, with the replacements I've put in, I don't really even feel a need to go back. Every once in a while I'll have the old way, like, a normal piece of pizza, But there are recipes you can do that simulates crust enough.

Another thing worth mentioning is that just because it's keto, doesn't mean it's healthy. Protein is the key part, get your right amount of protein, and only enough fat (and I recommend healthy fats) to help curb hunger.

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[/QUOTE]
Egg pizza is pretty bomb. Almost makes you not even miss the real thing.

Intermittent fasting is the best imo and most sustainable while being versatile and catering to your needs.

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You're right, which is why I mentioned earlier of combining IF with keto. IF only multiples the effects of keto by a significant factor, to the point you essentially become a fat burning machine 24/7.

 

[Spasm]

I've been on keto for 8 years now, and in that time I haven't been sick (other than catching the flu from my son) or even really hungry at all. I also haven't been tired in the sense of feeling run down out of nowhere. Also, my bloodwork and all physical results have been flawless during the entire 8 years.

That said, the first month or so can be difficult, but once you're through it, you won't even want to eat shit like fries or bread anymore. The funniest thing to me is if I am served a regular Coke instead of a Diet Coke by accident. I used to drink that stuff like crazy, but now, it's like I'm trying to drink a glass of maple syrup.

It's also telling that people like to use extreme examples to make the keto diet look ridiculous. They say "oh ho, so you're telling me that a pound of cheese and a Big Gulp of bacon grease is a great meal? Oh ho!" but it's a straw man. The average meal if you're doing this diet correctly is going to be based around a fattier meat item (salmon, chicken thighs, eggs, steak, pork, etc) and a heap of green vegetables (broccoli, spinach, etc.) Throw in avocados, low-sugar fruits like berries, nuts, cheese and yogurt, etc... Like, what in the world is unhealthy about that compared to the same thing but with a wad of rice on the side?

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Post of the thread, IMO.

I eat more fruits and veggies on keto than I ever did on the stereotypical 'American diet' of fast, packaged, and processed foods.

 

[Deleted member 8561]

I haven't read them, but if the studies show that people one the diet for a long time don't have side effects, what does it matter if the point of the study was epilepsy and not weight loss? Still shows the diet doesn't have side effects doesn't it?

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The abstracts read that the studies primarily focus on the effectiveness of using keto to treat epilepsy. Only one link was actually about comparing keto to a conventional diet for weight loss, and that was actually a meta-study.

If you want to have a dietary study about specific effects keto has on people who don't need to use it for specifically medical reasons, and are using it for weight/nutrition, then studies that focus on that field would be actually useful. Also, there were side effects shown with those use used keto to treat epileptic seizures, but again that doesn't mean the side effects were contributed directly to keto and vice versa

I feel like you guys are assuming clear side-effects of cancer/heart attacks/kidney failure are just going to pop up or something, and are the only things that are considered "side effects/consequences"

 

[Deleted member 11822]

Been on a low card / keto diet for 2 years. I am 42.

According to my PCP, my markers place me in the lowest risk group in regards to heart disease, and I am at my idea body weight [I now weigh less than I did in high school].

Independent of that I am the strongest I have ever been, and overall feel fantastic.

But, hey what do i know.

 

[IMACOMPUTA]

The abstracts read that the studies primarily focus on the effectiveness of using keto to treat epilepsy. Only one link was actually about comparing keto to a conventional diet for weight loss, and that was actually a meta-study.

If you want to have a dietary study about specific effects keto has on people who don't need to use it for specifically medical reasons, and are using it for weight/nutrition, then studies that focus on that field would be actually useful. Also, there were side effects shown with those use used keto to treat epileptic seizures, but again that doesn't mean the side effects were contributed directly to keto and vice versa

I feel like you guys are assuming clear side-effects of cancer/heart attacks/kidney failure are just going to pop up or something, and are the only things that are considered "side effects/consequences"

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The side effects/consequences of being massively obese are well known.
If keto is preventing that for someone, it's good.. no?

(this is more a general point, i'm not necessarily directing this to you)

Been on a low card / keto diet for 2 years. I am 42.

According to my PCP, my markers place me in the lowest risk group in regards to heart disease, and I am at my idea body weight [I now weigh less than I did in high school].

Independent of that I am the strongest I have ever been, and overall feel fantastic.

But, hey what do i know.

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Before I started keto I had bloodwork done for our work's wellness program.
I had 3 or 4 spots that were way over the limits.
After being on keto for 6 months or so and losing 30-40 lbs all of my results were within range and have been since.

 

[JVID]

Been on a low card / keto diet for 2 years. I am 42.

According to my PCP, my markers place me in the lowest risk group in regards to heart disease, and I am at my idea body weight [I now weigh less than I did in high school].

Independent of that I am the strongest I have ever been, and overall feel fantastic.

But, hey what do i know.

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It must have been all that water clogging up your system.

 

[Deleted member 8561]

The side effects/consequences of being massively obese are well known.
If keto is preventing that for someone, it's good.. no?

(this is more a general point, i'm not necessarily directing this to you)

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Following that logic, starving yourself is a good way to counteract obesity.

So if starving yourself is preventing obesity, then it's good.

 

[John Rabbit]

It's also telling that people like to use extreme examples to make the keto diet look ridiculous. They say "oh ho, so you're telling me that a pound of cheese and a Big Gulp of bacon grease is a great meal? Oh ho!" but it's a straw man. The average meal if you're doing this diet correctly is going to be based around a fattier meat item (salmon, chicken thighs, eggs, steak, pork, etc) and a heap of green vegetables (broccoli, spinach, etc.) Throw in avocados, low-sugar fruits like berries, nuts, cheese and yogurt, etc... Like, what in the world is unhealthy about that compared to the same thing but with a wad of rice on the side?

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This is the thing that really gets me about critics. I eat way more lean meats/proteins (chicken, turkey, fish) and WAY more healthy greens (broccoli, spinach) than I ever did before.

 

[iswasdoes]

The abstracts read that the studies primarily focus on the effectiveness of using keto to treat epilepsy. Only one link was actually about comparing keto to a conventional diet for weight loss, and that was actually a meta-study.

If you want to have a dietary study about specific effects keto has on people who don't need to use it for specifically medical reasons, and are using it for weight/nutrition, then studies that focus on that field would be actually useful. Also, there were side effects shown with those use used keto to treat epileptic seizures, but again that doesn't mean the side effects were contributed directly to keto and vice versa

I feel like you guys are assuming clear side-effects of cancer/heart attacks/kidney failure are just going to pop up or something, and are the only things that are considered "side effects/consequences"

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I've lost track of the point you're making. Is it that these studies can't be used to justify the safety of long term Keto because that's not what they were designed for?

And serious side effects like heart disease or kidney failure are the ones I'm interested in as they are the ones people randomly claim long term Keto will doubtlessly cause

 

[IMACOMPUTA]

Following that logic, starving yourself is a good way to counteract obesity.

So if starving yourself is preventing obesity, then it's good.

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Yeah, fantastic point.

 

[SaveWeyard]

There's a Sawbones episode about the ketogenic diet. I recommend people listen to it: https://www.maximumfun.org/sawbones/sawbones-ketogenic-diet

 

[Culex]

I've heard nothing but good news of the diet, and was wondering if my own results would have been different had I gone on it. The VA has been tracking my cholesterol for years and I was always borderline. Last April my doc finally said, i either do a diet change or go on statins. I wasn't fat - 5 foot 10 at 173 lbs. So i went on a nutritional plan to cut out nearly all saturated fat and lower my calorie intact from all higher fat foods. In less than two months, i lost 33 lbs. My wife thought i was literally dying, i lost it so fast. I feel great now - at nearly a full year later, i wish I had done this plan earlier. I never realized how cutting out saturated fats could do this.

 

[Instro]

Yeah it's not "wild" to claim something that is easily observed with medical equipment that people use everyday. If you start reducing your carbs below a limit, you'll be in ketosis as defined by the presence of ketones in your blood and urine. Again, it's not a "claim" inasmuch as established science.


The "keto" diet that's followed today is not the same as the keto diet for epilepsy. It shares principles but they are very different in terms of their execution.


Based on...what evidence?

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A. We already had at least one person in here making claims of "improved energy, and mental focus"...which is literally a potential benefit of any kind of healthy nutritional eating. Which doesn't even get into the more bizarre claims about the diet and supposed benfits of being in regular "ketosis".
B. Irrelevant as people follow the keto diet in any number of ways. The principal mechanism is ultimately the same, and has the same potential side effects.
C. Because there is a wide variety research to suggest that low carb diets have potential health risks, and may not work for everyone. Additionally the entire topic is under-researched, regarding claims of benefits and risks, ultimately opening people to potential short and long term issues with malnutrition, acidosis, etc, for gains that can be achieved with any dietary modification that doesn't involve heavily reducing key food groups.

Regarding evidence: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/obr.12744

Note that this review specifically points to the fact that research on this subject is poor, particularly in studies that were pointing to the beneficial effects of low carb diets.

I've heard nothing but good news of the diet, and was wondering if my own results would have been different had I gone on it. The VA has been tracking my cholesterol for years and I was always borderline. Last April my doc finally said, i either do a diet change or go on statins. I wasn't fat - 5 foot 10 at 173 lbs. So i went on a nutritional plan to cut out nearly all saturated fat and lower my calorie intact from all higher fat foods. In less than two months, i lost 33 lbs. My wife thought i was literally dying, i lost it so fast. I feel great now - at nearly a full year later, i wish I had done this plan earlier. I never realized how cutting out saturated fats could do this.

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Just a side note to this, any significant diet that you want to try should be discussed with a doctor first.

 

[Deleted member 8561]

I've lost track of the point you're making. Is it that these studies can't be used to justify the safety of long term Keto because that's not what they were designed for?

And serious side effects like heart disease or kidney failure are the ones I'm interested in as they are the ones people randomly claim long term Keto will doubtlessly cause

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My point is just having studies that go "long term keto doesn't kill you" is not what I'm actually talking about.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog...mate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089

Weight loss is the primary reason my patients use the ketogenic diet. Previous research shows good evidence of a faster weight loss when patients go on a ketogenic or very low carbohydrate diet compared to participants on a more traditional low-fat diet, or even a Mediterranean diet. However, that difference in weight loss seems to disappear over time.

A ketogenic diet also has been shown to improve blood sugar control for patients with type 2 diabetes, at least in the short term. There is even more controversy when we consider the effect on cholesterol levels. A few studies show some patients have increase in cholesterol levels in the beginning, only to see cholesterol fall a few months later. However, there is no long-term research analyzing its effects over time on diabetes and high cholesterol.

Reading this thread the common thing I'm seeing with people who use keto and found success is that they fundamentally changed what they consume on a day to day level. If keto forces people to make more healthy choices and consume less processed foods, then that will have a major impact in their long term success of keeping their weight off and being healthier overall.

That's not directly attributed to the fact they are in ketosis, but an inherent plus of being forced to limit their diet which drove them to a more healthy lifestyle in order to stay in ketosis.

So if keto is making people be healthier overall in their food choices, that's obviously a good thing. However, similar results can be gained by a non-keto diet and following the same steps on a long term basis.

 

[Replicant]

Intermittent fasting is just as effective as keto is and not nearly as restrictive.

 

[Kileth]

That's the problem though.

"It's easy". You're also "eating until you're full", which means you're probably still over eating, which is still a problem, and will still lead you to gain back a lot of that weight if you get off keto for any nominal duration of time. It's not a good plan.

For most people, that means they do some minor selective eating, lose some weight, and then stop the diet. At that point, their body will (usually) aggressively put back on the weight and in many cases, even more than their original starting point. Counting your macros is NOT "a shit ton of work". It's literally an afternoon of light reading, and then shopping well and using a food scale for your protein. It is very easy. The benefits being you'll learn what you're putting in your body, how your body is using it, and how to improve / adjust for different goals (particularly when you couple it with a sufficient workout plan).

No matter how much weight you lose, you will NEVER be as healthy as someone who is nutritionally educated and exercising regularly. Keto is great for short term gain, or as a necessity for medical reasons. As nutritional plan to stay thing? Not a good idea.

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But it is very difficult to overeat when you are on the Keto diet, virtually impossible. If you go back to your old way of eating of course you are going to gain the weight back. Keto isn't magic, it only works while you are on the diet, like anything you need consistency to retain the gains you have made.

Yes counting calories is a shit ton of work, there is a reason so many people fail when they count calories. They may also end up being hungry which I think is the biggest benefit of the Keto diet. You eat till your full and typically don't need to snack. CICO has failed for so long because it takes so much effort to monitor everything you put in your body. I'd rather cut up some cheese or eat some walnuts then have to take out a scale and go "ok I've had 150 calories so far today how many more can I have?" vrs just eating.

As an aside I've been on the Keto diet for 2ish years and am at a relatively happy weight. I do exercise but know not everyone has the time / energy to do that regularly. Heck my dad has been on Keto for over 2 years and lost 40 pounds. It's easy for him to stick to because it doesn't require additional work.

 

[GameChanger]

It's not a bad diet. What makes Keto diet special is that a lot of people are able to adhere to it long enough to achieve their weight goals or at least some degree of weight loss. It's a diet high in fats and thus keeps people satiated. It's not a well balanced diet but it's a lot better than the typical diet of many overweight/obese people.

 

[8byte]

But it is very difficult to overeat when you are on the Keto diet, virtually impossible. If you go back to your old way of eating of course you are going to gain the weight back. Keto isn't magic, it only works while you are on the diet, like anything you need consistency to retain the gains you have made.

Yes counting calories is a shit ton of work, there is a reason so many people fail when they count calories. They may also end up being hungry which I think is the biggest benefit of the Keto diet. You eat till your full and typically don't need to snack. CICO has failed for so long because it takes so much effort to monitor everything you put in your body. I'd rather cut up some cheese or eat some walnuts then have to take out a scale and go "ok I've had 150 calories so far today how many more can I have?" vrs just eating.

As an aside I've been on the Keto diet for 2ish years and am at a relatively happy weight. I do exercise but know not everyone has the time / energy to do that regularly. Heck my dad has been on Keto for over 2 years and lost 40 pounds. It's easy for him to stick to because it doesn't require additional work.

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Well I hope neither of you suffers complications from it, because that's a very real possibility.

The point isn't that you over eat on the keto diet, but that you eat until you're full. You stop eating when you "feel full". On a regular diet, if you'er doing this, you'll very rapidly get to an unhealthy point in life.

There is very little research on long term health effects of keto, so committing to doing it long term is insane to me, because it could very well ruin your heart, kidneys, and any other number of complications from cutting out a lot of regularly consumed food groups (like fruits).

I wish the best for you, but in no way is Keto "healthy" outside of making you happy with the number on the scale. God speed.

 

[iswasdoes]

There is very little research on long term health effects of keto, so committing to doing it long term is insane to me, because it could very well ruin your heart, kidneys, and any other number of complications from cutting out a lot of regularly consumed food groups (like fruits).

I wish the best for you, but in no way is Keto "healthy" outside of making you happy with the number on the scale. God speed.

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I've never understood this fixation on fruit. Yeah it's got vitamins in it but so do vegetables without all the sugar?

Anyway your comments indicate to me you're more partial to baseless assumptions than any real research or open mindedness, so god speed indeed

 

[Calamari41]

You can also have a handful of things like melon, raspberries, strawberries, plums, and cherries and not have it eat into your daily carb allotment (we're talking less than 10 or so carbs if you want a good helping of these fruits). If you add a ton of spinach, cauliflower, broccoli, zucchini, and asparagus to your diet, and have a handful of the aforementioned fruits every day or two, then what exactly are you missing out on?

 

[JVID]

Well I hope neither of you suffers complications from it, because that's a very real possibility.

The point isn't that you over eat on the keto diet, but that you eat until you're full. You stop eating when you "feel full". On a regular diet, if you'er doing this, you'll very rapidly get to an unhealthy point in life.

There is very little research on long term health effects of keto, so committing to doing it long term is insane to me, because it could very well ruin your heart, kidneys, and any other number of complications from cutting out a lot of regularly consumed food groups (like fruits).

I wish the best for you, but in no way is Keto "healthy" outside of making you happy with the number on the scale. God speed.

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What is this fear mongering shit.

 

[crimzonflame]

I think intermittent fasting is the best.

 

[Joe2187]

Well I hope neither of you suffers complications from it, because that's a very real possibility.

The point isn't that you over eat on the keto diet, but that you eat until you're full. You stop eating when you "feel full". On a regular diet, if you'er doing this, you'll very rapidly get to an unhealthy point in life.

There is very little research on long term health effects of keto, so committing to doing it long term is insane to me, because it could very well ruin your heart, kidneys, and any other number of complications from cutting out a lot of regularly consumed food groups (like fruits).

I wish the best for you, but in no way is Keto "healthy" outside of making you happy with the number on the scale. God speed.

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What is your basis for this?

Im no longer diabetic, im working out daily, I have more energy, I eat more fruits and veggies than I ever did as well as doing IMF am more active and have the best blood pressure, sugar cholesterol results I've ever had in my life....

what exactly is not "healthy"?

 

[IMACOMPUTA]

I've never understood this fixation on fruit. Yeah it's got vitamins in it but so do vegetables without all the sugar?

Anyway your comments indicate to me you're more partial to baseless assumptions than any real research or open mindedness, so god speed indeed

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Seriously.
"The long term effects arent known"
"In no way is it healthy"

Alright!

 

[Deleted member 1635]

Using keto as a specific tool for weight loss is relatively new which is why most of the studies on keto focus on epilepsy and not on nutrition, long term weight loss and other things related to using it as the primary tool for weight loss.

So no, what you just said is not correct. Prefacing your deflection because one of your articles literally points out the lack of substantial data and research on using keto for weight loss is not a really good strategy, but that's just my view.

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You can call it whatever you want, but carbohydrate restriction is not a new concept at all, even in western civilizations.

LOL. Human being has been on balanced diet for 1 million years (from the time before ancient human like Home Erectus evolved into Homo Sapians), Primarily Starch diet has been used for 5-10 thousand years after the domestication of crops. These diets are proven. Your fancy pan Keto diet is less than 100 year old and the side effect is unknown.

Try harder.

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You do know there are populations that have traditionally consumed very little carbohydrate, right?

 

[DarthWalden]

So I dont watch the news that much, but apparently Jillian Micheals has been going around on a media blitz trying to criticize the "Keto Diet Trend"

https://www.today.com/health/jillia...-keto-diet-you-re-starving-yourselves-t146530



She recommends a balanced diet which is fine, for normal people who dont have weight, blood sugar or energy issues.

But ignores the benefits and reasons people use the diet.

1) Helps regulate your blood insulin sensitivity
2) Helps reduce your appetite so overeaters can curb their cravings
3) Weight Loss
4) Clearer mental health more focused thinking
5) Increases your energy and helps stress.

If you are a healthy individual, there's no reason for you to be doing any sort of special diet besides eating healthy non processed foods and proper sized portions. However the benefits for those that have issues like the above are not something to be avoided because a celebrity fitness trainer says so.

She's giving a bunch of misinformation that seems to primarily focus on promoting herself really.

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Is there scientific evidence that it leads to all this stuff?

I feel like I've seen and attempted quite a few of these diet fads over the past 20 years and the only thing that seemed to truly do anything was eating fresh healthy foods and exercising regularly. I think more than anything there is a correlation between all the things you mentioned and just being conscious about what you eat.

All this other stuff seems like bullshit.

 

[mopinks]

I started keto a few months ago and I've lost like 35 pounds and feel pretty fantastic

it might be closer to 50 pounds if I hadn't indulged in a couple of Holiday Pie Weeks

 

[LL_Decitrig]

What is your basis for this?

Im no longer diabetic, im working out daily, I have more energy, I eat more fruits and veggies than I ever did as well as doing IMF am more active and have the best blood pressure, sugar cholesterol results I've ever had in my life....

what exactly is not "healthy"?

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Okay let's dial it back for a minute. You eat lots of fruit and vegetables. Your prior diet was low in fruit and vegetables. But despite these egregious sources of carbohydrate in your diet (which are, don't misunderstand me, very good for your health) you attribute your present health to a fad diet. Am I wrong?

 

[House_Of_Lightning]

> you're starving yourselves

Yah that's why it's called a diet

 

[Keyser S]

Well I hope neither of you suffers complications from it, because that's a very real possibility.

The point isn't that you over eat on the keto diet, but that you eat until you're full. You stop eating when you "feel full". On a regular diet, if you'er doing this, you'll very rapidly get to an unhealthy point in life.

There is very little research on long term health effects of keto, so committing to doing it long term is insane to me, because it could very well ruin your heart, kidneys, and any other number of complications from cutting out a lot of regularly consumed food groups (like fruits).

I wish the best for you, but in no way is Keto "healthy" outside of making you happy with the number on the scale. God speed.

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This literally the worst post I have seen on this forum

 

[TheChungusAmongUs]

I got back on the diet recently, and for the most part I feel a lot better.

 

[Calamari41]

Is there scientific evidence that it leads to all this stuff?

I've seen and attempted every diet fad over the past 20 years and the only thing that seemed to truly do anything was eating fresh healthy foods and exercising regularly. I think more than anything there is a correlation between all the things you mentioned and just being conscious about what you eat.

All this other stuff seems like bullshit.

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Don't forget that most "unfresh," "unhealthy" foods are carb based or loaded with sugar. The very act of moving toward fresh and nutrient-packed foods means you probably drastically cut the amount of carbs you were eating, even if you didn't enter ketosis.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

It's also telling that people like to use extreme examples to make the keto diet look ridiculous. They say "oh ho, so you're telling me that a pound of cheese and a Big Gulp of bacon grease is a great meal? Oh ho!" but it's a straw man. The average meal if you're doing this diet correctly is going to be based around a fattier meat item (salmon, chicken thighs, eggs, steak, pork, etc) and a heap of green vegetables (broccoli, spinach, etc.) Throw in avocados, low-sugar fruits like berries, nuts, cheese and yogurt, etc... Like, what in the world is unhealthy about that compared to the same thing but with a wad of rice on the side?

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This right here. People who attack carbohydrate restriction love to go straight to the bacon grease strawmen.

 

[8byte]

Seriously.
"The long term effects arent known"
"In no way is it healthy"

Alright!

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Just as a one off: Short term studies in young adults treated with ketogenic diets for medical reasons showed an increase in arterial stiffness, which is an early indicator for cardiovascular risks. Most studies show high fat/protein & low carb diets increase your cholesterol and LDL levels (though with some benefits to your lipid profile). I don't think losing some weight quick in the short term is worth potentially risking your heart for. So even if we don't know that it will cause heart problems...why risk it when you could literally just work a little harder and not have that risk at all?

Anyway, I'm out. No one on the diet wants to hear anything other than "this diet is a miracle" so there's literally no reason for me to be in this thread, because I'm definitely not lying to anyone.

 

[Foltzie]

Can anyone link to any studies showing yeah or nay for Keto and how they interpret what that means?

Considering doing something Keto like, but I want to know the potential pitfalls and how to avoid?

 

[Boy]

Not really a fan of these all types of different diets. I'm more for having a balanced healthy diet and lifestyle instead of doing extreme things like avoiding carbs or avoiding things like fruits. In the end it all comes down to calories in vs calories out if you want to lose weight.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

Because you assume everyone on the fad diet is doing it long term. There's a reason why it's always called a diet because it lures in people who want to lose pounds fast, not change their eating habits long term. You are not the average dieter.

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The meaning of "diet" has been warped to mean short term weight loss for many people, but that's not the traditional meaning.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

That's surprising to hear, can you go into some more detail? I'm genuinely interested. How long were you in keto, and what kinds of food were you overindulging?

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Do keep in mind that he is an extremely active weight lifter that basically looks like a pro wrestler, so obviously not a typical specimen when it comes to nutrition needs.

 

[Courage]

The only negative thing I can say about keto (which isn't really about keto itself but up to the person) is that it makes going back to carbs incredibly dangerous since you can easily gain back all your weight and more if you revert to old, bad habits. I lost 40 lbs on keto, gained over 100 after stopping it, and now I'm back on keto and lost another 130 lbs. The slippery slope of carbs will always be there to tempt you, especially when previously obese.

 

[Calamari41]

Okay let's dial it back for a minute. You eat lots of fruit and vegetables. Your prior diet was low in fruit and vegetables. But despite these egregious sources of carbohydrate in your diet (which are, don't misunderstand me, very good for your health) you attribute your present health to a fad diet. Am I wrong?

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Veggies have very few carbs when you subtract out the fiber, that isn't an issue and indeed green vegetables are one of the key staples of this diet. As for fruit, replacing things like bread, pasta, rice, cookies, cake, chips, etc with the occasional fruit acts to drastically cut the amount of carbs you're eating. You would need to eat four cups of strawberries to match the amount of carbs in a decent sized side of rice, for example, and you would typically try to keep that kind of intake to a cup of fruit per day on average if you wanted to have it.

Just to put it in perspective, four cups of strawberries ends up being almost 50 individual medium strawberries.

 

[Avitus]

Is there scientific evidence that it leads to all this stuff?

I feel like I've seen and attempted quite a few of these diet fads over the past 20 years and the only thing that seemed to truly do anything was eating fresh healthy foods and exercising regularly. I think more than anything there is a correlation between all the things you mentioned and just being conscious about what you eat.

All this other stuff seems like bullshit.

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Keto isn't a 'fad' diet. It fundamentally switches your body over to using fat as the primary source for fuel via eliminating carbohydrates. This in turn allows for people to make much better food choices since carb heavy foods tend to be easiest to overeat and underestimate while fatty, protein rich foods are very satiating.

Following that logic, starving yourself is a good way to counteract obesity.

So if starving yourself is preventing obesity, then it's good.

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Controlled fasting is pretty well understood, and the science of IF is growing every day. Nothing wrong with abstaining from food so long as it's done in a safe manner.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

Carbs are a necessary macronutrient for good long term health. How we process and consume them is the issue.

They should be consumed via minimally-processed whole foods, in balance with the rest of the macro nutrients in your diet, and in moderation in absolute terms.

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Carbs are quite literally the only unnecessary macro nutrient. Your body requires zero of it. They can be beneficial if you're extremely physically active or need to put on some extra weight to make it through a long period of low food availability.

 

[ParanormalFupa]

I naturally eat a keto diet except I also eat a moderate amount of rice, beans, and whole grains too. I never saw the point in being so carb strict. Those few carbs help me eat far more healthy than I would otherwise.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Saw on the news that the Mediterranean diet is always the best for losing weight.