Fiber can be an issue, for sure. I eat these:
for the double whammy of providing well over half of the daily recommended fiber intake (26g for this size) , and also as a way to scratch the sandwich itch by making wraps every now and then.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Jillian Micheals " Avoid the Keto Diet at all costs" - Offers little evidence and analysis
- Thread starter Joe2187
- Start date
Fiber can be an issue, for sure. I eat these:
for the double whammy of providing well over half of the daily recommended fiber intake (26g for this size) , and also as a way to scratch the sandwich itch by making wraps every now and then.
OP
OP
Fiber is an issue
Thats why im always eating avacados, spinach, chia seeds, almonds (and almond milk) Brussel sprouts (cooked with some salt, butter garlic and pancetta) pistachios (sprinkled atop home made coconut ice cream) edemame, flax seed meal to make breads and doughs, walnuts, okra, and lots and lots of berries.
Thats why im always eating avacados, spinach, chia seeds, almonds (and almond milk) Brussel sprouts (cooked with some salt, butter garlic and pancetta) pistachios (sprinkled atop home made coconut ice cream) edemame, flax seed meal to make breads and doughs, walnuts, okra, and lots and lots of berries.
Because keto isn't just about carb restriction. Keto entails ketosis, whereby your body preferentially burns fat over carbs.
That menu includes low fat proteins and green vegetables throughout, with a likely low fat greek yogurt as the biggest fat intake. Macro ratios all depend on how the person made their food, but that's probably a lot closer to a 1:1:1 or lean protein heavy if anything for total calories.
The Keto diet most people are doing, much like the Atkins diet before it, is really just a processed carb reduction where depriving themselves of the processed carb. calorie crutch is being replaced by something else. In both cases it's picking something to make the participant feel like they can "cheat" or indulge excessively in one area or another. It is almost always paired with people actually watching what they eat though so surprise surprise, they tend to work because most people eat like shit when they aren't actively monitoring their food intake.
Humans evolved from hunter gatherer societies that lived primarily on fruit, vegetables, nuts, and wild grains. Carbs have always been a core component of the human diet. It also used to be where huge amounts of vitamin demands were met. Fats and proteins from animals meet additional nutrient and vitamin needs, but no one side of the macro triangle is really superior to the other, in the proper form.
If you were to go Atkins and spent all your daily calories chowing down on cheap ass bacon and ripped out McDonalds burger patties you'd probably feel like shit and do substantial damage to your body.
If you do a Keto diet focused around eating tons of processed cheese and other dairy products you'd probably do the same.
Those are the corollaries to what the contemporary western world offers up for carbs. Tons of processed white flour and refined sugar based products.
If instead you get complex carbs from fruit and veg. you'd probably find that carbs aren't the enemy.
Better yet, if people would learn how to make their own breads again, ideally with whole grains and an active culture sponge, they'd probably find that even bread isn't the enemy. People ate carb heavy diets for literally thousands of years without issue when we as a species were 1. more physically active and 2. making most of it at home or getting it from a local baker.
Lastly - anyone claiming that Keto is the reason they lost 25+ pounds in a month are simply wrong. That's not how thermodynamics works. calories in v. calories out. Going Keto might have been part of a massive calorie reduction in your diet, but caloric intake is what controls the body's use of calorie reserves. You can convert an engine to burn an alternative fuell but moving the same size vehicle the same distance is still going to require the same total units of energy. Same goes for the human body. This is basic physics.
And most physicians have consistently agreed for a long time now that losing more than 10% of your body weight in a single week is a bad thing for your body and can lead to serious health issues.
Hey look another hot take that completely misunderstands the entire point of keto but you damn well better make sure you let everyone else know what an idiot they are right?
This is hot bullshit. Thermodynamics says absolutely nothing about what our bodies will do with the food they intake. Nothing at all.
Our bodies are not internal combustion engines or closed systems.
Yes you need to mobilize fat stores for energy to lose body fat, but that says nothing about what our bodies do with the food we eat.
You can't just eat what you want on keto and magically lose weight, but potentially it's more mindless because higher fat foods may satiate you longer causing you to eat less. Also I would imagine your protein intake increases simply because many of the "keto approved" foods tend to have a decent amount of protein.
I don't have the view that keto is bad, but it's not some magic pill. Basically the best diet is the one you can stick with.
What are you eating that makes it so you don't get bored? All the people I see that use Keto or low carb complain about the fact that it gets boring.
A good half of that initial 25 lbs is water being dropped. I'd think an additional 12 from lower calorie intake isn't out of the question. It's not gonna be 25lb per month though.
Maybe adults in first world countries, but adults in less developed countries and most playing active children certainly are regularly depleting their glycogen stores. Sedentary American adults are the exception, not the rule.
And there are not really good studies on being in ketosis for a prolonged period of time. But it is possible to go from ketosis to non-diabetic ketoacidosis under certain conditions (although seemingly rare): overall caloric restriction, high physical exertion, dehydration, and/or lactation being the most likely of those conditions.
Eggs, a wad of butter to scramble into them, cheese, avocado, 1-2 chicken thighs worth of meat, 0 sugar salad dressing (ranch), nuts, salmon, full fat Greek yogurt, these are low fat food items to you?
There's a huge variety of food you can make/consume. For most people their not "boring" food is probably processed junk foods and bread/noodles.
They aren't closed systems. Neither are combustion engines.
But dietary research dating back decades before Keto was even conceived (as a treatment for epilepsy) has pretty well proven that within the perspectives of the average person, as it pertains to body weight, one calorie is no better than the next. The macro-nutrients associated, etc. might make one feel better and therefore be more actively (and burning more calories) but any claim that "X diet inherently burns more calories" is inherently flawed as calories are a form of energy and energy is either consumed or stored when processed.
There has been no smoking gun revelation that eating more fats makes you have more calorie rich shits for example. There was a product developed not that long ago that achieved that mind you, it was called Olestra, and it was so fucking bad for the body that it didn't make it more than a year on the market, despite major processed food manufacturers basically buying its approval from the FDA.
"Mobilizing fat stores" is being in a calorie deficit. That's it. There is no magic trick to it unless by "mobilize" you mean "surgically remove via scalpel and lipo tube".
I've been just counting calories and weighing my food and I've lost like 50 pounds since August, 20 pounds of it being first the first month alone. I am eating whatever I want still and am consistently losing about 1.5 pounds per week without any difficulty and I still get to have soda and bread. I'm eating about 1300 calories a day
This is full fat greek yogurt:
14 g. protein. 5g. fat. So you're already more than three times upside down on Protein:Fat for Keto.
Free range chicken thighs. 17 g. fat, 19g. protein. So close to neutral, but when Keto says 40% fat as the absolute floor a 50/50 fat/protein ratio sure as hell isn't going to get you there.
Eggs. 5 g. fat, 6 g. protein. Again, not the big fat slant of Keto.
Farmed atlantic salmon. almost a 1:3 fat to protein ratio.
Almonds. 14 g. fat to 6 g. protein. Something actually in the range of what Keto requires. You'd need to eat more almonds by weight than everything else here just to climb back to neutral in a day though.
Again - low carb, low calorie, and using full fat foods that comply with that is not Keto. That isn't going to drive hardly who doesn't have an absolutely massive protein demand into ketosis. It might, maybe, slant slightly in favor of fats over proteins if you just go wild on the butter, cheese and avocados and are super stingy on the greens and veg..
Which is why it would look like a healthy diet to anyone. It avoids processed carbs, commercially fattened meat products, and artificially calorie reduced dairy products (like low fat yogurts).
Keto will get people to lose weight but the last thing it should be confused with is a balanced diet.
I believe most recommendations are "fat as a percentage of total calories."
Last edited:
eh,
all diets are kind of bullshit. I mean they can work, but it's hard to keep up with the regimens
this is it really. there is no secret, all these stupid fad diets like keto or atkins or whatever are missing the point. Eat fewer calories. That's it.
Oh and exercise helps too!
all diets are kind of bullshit. I mean they can work, but it's hard to keep up with the regimens
this is it really. there is no secret, all these stupid fad diets like keto or atkins or whatever are missing the point. Eat fewer calories. That's it.
Oh and exercise helps too!
Sure. But losing 12 pounds of water weight in a month is part of the problem. Rapid weight loss tied to shedding water weight while also metabolizing more body fat is running your kidneys in the red while refusing to top off the oil.
Yes, exactly. To cover the fat:protein deficit that diet would require the almonds as a snack to actually outweight the protein heavy meals. That's my point.
Eating a lot of fat while also eating a lot of protein or carbs is not keto.
Eating zero carbs and letting yourself eat whole fat foods is not inherently keto.
Denying both carbs and proteins so that by far the dominant source of calories for your body comes from fats is keto.
Which again brings me back to my original point: people confuse not eating like shit but letting themselves still eat healthy fats as keto and attribute weight loss to "keto" when really they lost weight because they didn't eat like shit.
There are personal demos all over the internet of people eating a fucking snickers bar three times a day, staying below 2000 calories, and losing weight. Does anyone actually think that's healthy? Obviously not. But it will lead to weight loss because at the end of the day fat reserves are controlled by calories in v. calories out over long windows of time.
If Keto is what someone needs to maintain caloric balance that's better than being 20-30% overweight, but lets not run to call the latest carb reduction scheme a truly revolutionary lifestyle that definitely won't have health ramifications. Most diets have their pros and cons for long term health, with the one obvious exception being an overall well balanced diet complete with regular exercise.
Last edited:
Ignoring that you conveniently decided not to factor in the butter, the avocado, dressing, or cheese, let's take a single serving from each of those foods you chose to post the nutrition facts for:
It adds up to
450 fat calories (56%)
52 carb calories (6%) <-- and this even included the dietary fiber, which shouldn't actually count
296 protein calories (37%)
Probably looking at 60% or higher fat calories when you factor in the high-fat items you decided to exclude.
This is full fat greek yogurt:
14 g. protein. 5g. fat. So you're already more than three times upside down on Protein:Fat for Keto.
Free range chicken thighs. 17 g. fat, 19g. protein. So close to neutral, but when Keto says 40% fat as the absolute floor a 50/50 fat/protein ratio sure as hell isn't going to get you there.
Eggs. 5 g. fat, 6 g. protein. Again, not the big fat slant of Keto.
Farmed atlantic salmon. almost a 1:3 fat to protein ratio.
Almonds. 14 g. fat to 6 g. protein. Something actually in the range of what Keto requires. You'd need to eat more almonds by weight than everything else here just to climb back to neutral in a day though.
Again - low carb, low calorie, and using full fat foods that comply with that is not Keto. That isn't going to drive hardly who doesn't have an absolutely massive protein demand into ketosis. It might, maybe, slant slightly in favor of fats over proteins if you just go wild on the butter, cheese and avocados and are super stingy on the greens and veg..
Which is why it would look like a healthy diet to anyone. It avoids processed carbs, commercially fattened meat products, and artificially calorie reduced dairy products (like low fat yogurts).
Keto will get people to lose weight but the last thing it should be confused with is a balanced diet.
Really interesting that you ignored the 50:1 salad dressing, the 120:1 butter in the eggs, the 7:1 avocado, not to mention the oil used in cooking the fish and meat and veggies. And no, I am not stingy with any of it.
Edit: and looking in my fridge right now, I forgot, you can add some servings of 5:1 sour cream with my breakfast.
Anyway, the point of this list wasn't to specifically show exactly what I eat every day, but to get across the variety of food that I eat on the diet overall.
Last edited:
This is simply not true, gout is caused by urate crystals that deposits in a joint, typically the big toe. The foods that causes urate crystals to form are steak, organ meats and seafood, so unless your friend was consuming tons of these types of food, then it's not related to his "keto" diet.
Here's a link for causes and symptoms of gout : https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gout/symptoms-causes/syc-20372897
I think her explanation is pretty fair and I tend to agree with her that the Keto diet isn't all that great for you.
This is what I'm thinking lol.
Hell whenever I'm grocery shopping I walk past multiple isles without a second glance like "yup, that's the solidified sugar isle" or "oof it's the pure carb isle"
There is no study of Keto diet and long term health. You are better off going with IF, since this was how human eat pretty much the whole time until industrial revolution.
Or you can take one for the team and volunteer to be a study participant.
It's not fair if she misrepresents it. A low carb diet hasn't been all meat, bacon, meat, cheese, and nothing else since the earliest days of Atkins.
Last edited:
I want to second what Spasm mentions here. It is a misrepresentation of our evolution. Humans did not rely on grains and complex carbs as part of our daily diet till the agriculture revolution, and humans during the paleolithic days were heavily reliant on other sources, e.g., fats and proteins from animals and maybe simple carbs from gathering.
It is a bit of a "fad diet". Lots of people at my work doing keto when healthy eating and regular exercise would be fine for them. One of these women passed out and seriously hurt herself on the fall.
I think some people just jump onto whatever the current fad is. Saw the same shit with atkins a few years back.
I understand particular diets might be particularly beneficial for certain people, but I'm totally satisfied (and have had good results) with just eating healthy as much as possible and exercising a few times a week. This is also far more sustainable long term as far as I'm concerned.
I think some people just jump onto whatever the current fad is. Saw the same shit with atkins a few years back.
I understand particular diets might be particularly beneficial for certain people, but I'm totally satisfied (and have had good results) with just eating healthy as much as possible and exercising a few times a week. This is also far more sustainable long term as far as I'm concerned.
Can someone explain carbs/net carbs etc to me ? Quest pizza says 5 carbs per serving, three servings per pizza, should be a total of 15g. Back of box says 19g carbs, 15g is fiber and two from sugar.
This review does a pretty good job of summarizing various findings on low-carb and low-fat diets in patients with type 2 diabetes. Talking specifically of ketogenic diets, they have this to say:
I'll say this: the ketogenic diet is a medical treatment, and you should treat it as such. It can have very real side-effects, such as the "keto-flu" mentioned above, that you may or may not be able to tolerate. You are doing something very drastic to your body by going on this diet, and the long-term effects are unknown, although, as the review I linked mentioned, low-carb diets (<40%) and high-carb diets (>70%) were linked to increased mortality among people without diabetes. You will lose weight in the short-term if you stay on the diet, that's pretty much a given, and ketosis will probably increase satiety. Staying on it is super challenging, though, and if you don't stick to it, to the letter, it will not work.
Do not approach this thing lightly, and if you are a type 1 diabetic, absolutely do not do this.
I would say it's best to find a "diet" that works for your lifestyle, something that is sustainable throughout your life.
I'll say this: the ketogenic diet is a medical treatment, and you should treat it as such. It can have very real side-effects, such as the "keto-flu" mentioned above, that you may or may not be able to tolerate. You are doing something very drastic to your body by going on this diet, and the long-term effects are unknown, although, as the review I linked mentioned, low-carb diets (<40%) and high-carb diets (>70%) were linked to increased mortality among people without diabetes. You will lose weight in the short-term if you stay on the diet, that's pretty much a given, and ketosis will probably increase satiety. Staying on it is super challenging, though, and if you don't stick to it, to the letter, it will not work.
Do not approach this thing lightly, and if you are a type 1 diabetic, absolutely do not do this.
I would say it's best to find a "diet" that works for your lifestyle, something that is sustainable throughout your life.
Long story short is that you subtract the fiber from the total carbs, because the fiber isn't absorbed into your body.
Jillian Michaels is very much about eating what you like in moderation and with some thinking behind it, and exercising. She's an amazing personal (DVD lol) trainer. She posts a lot on Instagram about eating sweets because today is cheat day, and the like.
She's also experienced with losing weight.
And yeah, lowering carbs in general is good because it forces you to eat healthier, but she's just about balance and moderation and exercise. 🤷🏻♀️ Personally, I do eat lower carbs because if I say "let's do carbs", all I do is eat bread and then sugar crash lol.
I dunno, I'm biased when it comes to her anyway, I own all her DVDs and I lost a bunch of weight while working out with them. She's a cool person.
She's also experienced with losing weight.
And yeah, lowering carbs in general is good because it forces you to eat healthier, but she's just about balance and moderation and exercise. 🤷🏻♀️ Personally, I do eat lower carbs because if I say "let's do carbs", all I do is eat bread and then sugar crash lol.
I dunno, I'm biased when it comes to her anyway, I own all her DVDs and I lost a bunch of weight while working out with them. She's a cool person.
Some people are taking this a little to matter of fact. As a diet plan I feel you have to do what works for you, everyone's body is different and reacts so to different eating habits( I hate the word diet). See a doctor, make realistic safe goals, move, and be healthy. I eat Keto and do intermittent fasting, I eat lots of vegetables, I enjoy some berries and enjoy my bacon and eggs every morning with a nice Lunch/Dinner. I'm never starving and smash out some amazing Lifting+Cardio workouts, it works for me and there isn't much Jillian can say to make me believe otherwise. Just like any meal plan you can eat the right way or the wrong way, If your eating Keto Quest bars and low carb processed food your going to have the same problems as a bad standard american diet. There isn't one correct answer for every body.
Why is nearly everybody in this thread using loss of weight as an absolute measure of health? Surely I'm not the only person of mature years who has never followed weight loss as a goal but is still active and healthy.
If you lost 89lb (40Kg for fuck's sake) and are not dead, you were probably morbidly obese to begin with. If your physician ordered this diet, good for them and well done to you. If you just randomly lost that amount of weight without medical supervision, please see a real doctor as soon as possible. You are probably rather ill.
If they followed the diet to the letter, they are not ill. They will be perfectly fine. This is speaking from experience and also talking to my cardiologist and my own doctors after following the diet for years now.
What kind of nonsense is this? I lost around 80 lbs. in under a year when I first started restricting carbs, too.
His weight loss was not "random." It was intentional. Losing that weight is not something that requires medical supervision for fuck's sake. Most of America could probably stand to lose the same amount if not much more.
I don't think anyone is using it as an absolute measure, but overweight is easily one of the biggest health issues in America and the majority of the country is suffering from it and associated illnesses to some degree.
That's cultish nonsense. There is no such thing as a diet that must be followed "to the letter." Eat well and you'll thrive. If you're able to eat bread, for instance, eat it when you like. It's lovely stuff and you will enjoy life. If you're unable to eat bread, find alternatives but please don't pretend that bread is horrible just because it doesn't work for you.
In total I probably weigh around 160lb. It's considered normal for a man in my country. Now try to explain how it would be good for me, as a healthy person, to lose half of my weight.
Even for somebody twice my weight, how could losing 25% of one's body weight be considered healthy?
Some people just keep doing the "ketosis state" explanation without offering any reason why Keto diet is more healthier than a balanced diet.
Why do you think this is about 160 lb. healthy adult men who have no problem with their weight going out and losing 80 lbs.? Did you even spend more than a second thinking about that post before your wrote it?
If you weigh 320 lbs. when you should be 160, then yes, dropping 25% of your body weight is a smart idea. Dropping 50% of your body weight would also be a good idea.
If you reach your target weight goal, what is the reason to keep your body in constant ketosis?
You dont need to lose weight. Someone who weighs 320 pounds does.