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Cyn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
237
It is disgusting, despicable and immoral.

Vote with your wallets. Resist advertisers and influencers and resist the Fear of Missing Out. It's not like there aren't millions of other titles available right now.

Money is the only language companies speak, so send a clear message.
 

Masagiwa

Member
Jan 27, 2018
9,899
Shinra theme in the background is 10/10. Giant corporations avoiding tax is nothing new either, has been going on for decades.
 
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Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
"Please forgive me, father, for I have sinned but you have to understand I had to do this!", begs corporate America as they lobby for legislation that allows them to do these things.
 

Deleted member 9971

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,743
I love how we normal working people almost give up half our income to taxes and sometimes struggle while these rich companies and people can avoid tax legally.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,224
pkmny259.jpg


Living the American dream where $16hr isn't enough to get by.
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,561
It is disgusting, despicable and immoral.

Vote with your wallets. Resist advertisers and influencers and resist the Fear of Missing Out. It's not like there aren't millions of other titles available right now.

Money is the only language companies speak, so send a clear message.
Most companies do this, and as taxes are based on a portion of revenue in the first place, not giving them revenue wouldn't get them to change anything - they'd still pay a fraction of it (in this case, zero).

Which is not to say that this is good, but a boycott because you don't agree with any one companies tax structure...eh.......you better get ready to boycott a lot of companies and have, honestly, not that much effect.
 

Cyn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
237
Most companies do this, and as taxes are based on a portion of revenue in the first place, not giving them revenue wouldn't get them to change anything - they'd still pay a fraction of it (in this case, zero).

Which is not to say that this is good, but a boycott because you don't agree with any one companies tax structure...eh.......you better get ready to boycott a lot of companies and have, honestly, not that much effect.

Most companies don't do this, but you are right in that far too many of them do. Lots of companies do do this. And alone my boycott means extremely little, but if it were employed on a large scale then the drop in revenue will be noticed. It's the system that's broken and allows for continued exploitation.

A boycott wouldn't influence companies to alter how they are taxed. But it does mean that my hard earned money isn't just being thrown on to the pile of money that Bobby Kotick and others like him sleep on or wipe their arse with. If that money was being reinvested in to the places where these products are made it would improve workers lives as well as justly rewarding people for their hard work and sacrifice.

We probably should be boycotting a lot of companies. We should be appalled at their exploitation and greed. We should not support or encourage these monsters who earn several hundred times more than their average employee.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,010
Pretty thread worthy. Jim can get a little nuts at times, but he's right here.
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,561
Most companies don't do this, but you are right in that far too many of them do. Lots of companies do do this. And alone my boycott means extremely little, but if it were employed on a large scale then the drop in revenue will be noticed. It's the system that's broken and allows for continued exploitation.

A boycott wouldn't influence companies to alter how they are taxed. But it does mean that my hard earned money isn't just being thrown on to the pile of money that Bobby Kotick and others like him sleep on or wipe their arse with. If that money was being reinvested in to the places where these products are made it would improve workers lives as well as justly rewarding people for their hard work and sacrifice.

We probably should be boycotting a lot of companies. We should be appalled at their exploitation and greed. We should not support or encourage these monsters who earn several hundred times more than their average employee.
You're right, I should say large companies.

I don't mean "it won't do anything" in the sense of "boycotts don't work", I mean that the way that corporate finance works would mean that, outside of a change to the tax laws, they'd never pay more in taxes. 0% of 1000 is the same as 0% of 900; 0 both times. These savings also happen *after* any payments to developers, as operating expenses occur before taxes.
 
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plié

Alt account
Banned
Jan 10, 2019
1,613
This is on your government, not Activision. There are plenty of companies that pay zero tax in the US.
 

plié

Alt account
Banned
Jan 10, 2019
1,613
We shouldn't blame Activision for law Activison lawyer helped to write so Activision could take advantege of.
OK.
When a government lets situations like this happen, its absolutely on them.

The company's main goal is to turn maximum profit, and that's exactly what they'll do if they go unchecked by the government. You can't expect them to start paying "extra" without forcing them to do so.
 

smash_robot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
994
Who is writing the legislation and who's paying the people that influence the congress members that decide about the legislation?
Sure, but it's the people that vote that put those congress members there, not corporations. Yes, I agree that your system is shitty beyond belief, but I feel the majority of the blame lies with the people in charge and those voting to keep in rather than the ones doing the bribing.
 

L.E.D.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
640
People can scream all they want at companies not paying taxes, but nothing will change until the government fixes the tax laws.
 

Darryl M R

The Spectacular PlayStation-Man
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,721
I'm looking forward to the future where the meme "Gamers rise up" is actually referring to rising up to take down crony capitalism.
 

DekuBleep

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,712
Hopefully the EU Court of Justice puts and end to these tax scams in Holland, just like they did in Ireland.
 

kdm

Member
Oct 30, 2017
28
This really isn't an appropriate representation of what's occurring. In order to actually get a refund on taxes, you must first have paid those amount in quarterly or ongoing taxes (most larger companies do this, even small businesses or self-employed individuals pay quarterly) for the IRS to issue a refund. So yes, while they are paying nothing in actual income taxes as a company, the US population is not actually paying them, as this video states.

It's also a fair statement to make that while the company is paying nominal income taxes, each one of their workers (including that high paid CEO the video loves to refer to) pays a State and Federal income tax on their W2. They're doing a significant amount by contributing to the economy by way of employment, and subsequent individual taxes from those employees. I'm not going to touch the topic of whether or not it's reasonable for the company's income tax to be handled the way it is, I'm just making statement that this entire topic is presented inappropriately.
 

Wyze

Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,140
Awful.

Meanwhile the true artists, the ones that make these parasites rich get paid shit or are laid off because reasons.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,961
South Carolina
I don't know if this is the sort of thing which needs an investigation? Of course, who knows; maybe they're hiding some nasty stuff in their taxes, but on the face of things it seems to be a somewhat standard question of tax avoidance, in particular through where they claim to be doing business in.

It's part of a larger thrust of powerful and rich using their power and riches to get more power and rich (in this case, via lobbying and the threat of moving locales). Actiblizz should be on the up and up 100% on obeying tax laws but in a way that finds the loopholes in said laws.

It's a gamut of loophole abuse as corporate culture expected by shareholders, all the way up to transnational organized crime washing clean their dirty money; it all weakens nation-states ability to function.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,959
What is exactly the thought behind having these companies that make billion, not pay taxes?
The GOP theory is that when the rich get richer, it trickles down and helps the economy. In reality, the companies use their windfall to buy more of their own stock, which enriches those who own the most stock, i.e. executives and large shareholders. A rising stock market also makes regular folks "feel" richer, even if their stock ownership isn't anywhere near as much as the rich have. While it's true that the wealthiest people likely spend more, there are only so many houses and yachts one person can use, plus they may be spending between each other, e.g. buying an expensive house or painting from a similarly wealthy person. This was all known in advance of the tax reform last year. Gary Cohn was speaking to a room full of CEO's before the tax plan passed and they were asked how many of them planned to increase capex spending after the tax cuts and almost none of them raised their hand. It was self-serving by Trump too. Parts of the plan looked custom designed to benefit his business, which he did not divest from, and although he told people the tax plan was going to be "very bad for me, believe me", estimates are he profits about $15M per year from it.

In some of the cases the companies get tax credits for various things, typically pushed for by lobbyists. Or they get tax breaks from States to invest, like Amazon does. Ubi and I assume EA benefit from tax credits in Quebec, up to 37.% of developer salaries iirc.

It's important to remember too that the companies are paying taxes, but much of their taxes paid are elsewhere, and the US (rightly) doesn't double tax.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,959
This really isn't an appropriate representation of what's occurring. In order to actually get a refund on taxes, you must first have paid those amount in quarterly or ongoing taxes (most larger companies do this, even small businesses or self-employed individuals pay quarterly) for the IRS to issue a refund. So yes, while they are paying nothing in actual income taxes as a company, the US population is not actually paying them, as this video states.

It's also a fair statement to make that while the company is paying nominal income taxes, each one of their workers (including that high paid CEO the video loves to refer to) pays a State and Federal income tax on their W2. They're doing a significant amount by contributing to the economy by way of employment, and subsequent individual taxes from those employees. I'm not going to touch the topic of whether or not it's reasonable for the company's income tax to be handled the way it is, I'm just making statement that this entire topic is presented inappropriately.
Correct, except for as you are probably aware they are paying income taxes internationally. Also the figures shown are tax expenses, not actual tax liabilities. They are further muddied by the one-time repatriation Transition Tax from the new tax reform. 2017's US federal tax expense from Activision was $696M, 2018 was ($228M).
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
Maybe companies should stop getting in the way of tax reform then.

Hush your mouth. This is all for the investors. So is microtransactions. So is profit generating lootboxes. So is laying off people after boasting record profits. Don't you know how business works? This is the purpose of business. They aren't a charity. This is good for the gamer eventually. Maybe. Who knows. Don't know why you are focussing on Activision. Everyone does it. Just accept it. Consume and then go back to sleep. E3 Hype is coming. Wait to you see what we have for you to preorder.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
Hush your mouth. This is all for the investors. So is microtransactions. So is profit generating lootboxes. So is laying off people after boasting record profits. Don't you know how business works? This is the purpose of business. They aren't a charity. This is good for the gamer eventually. Maybe. Who knows. Don't know why you are focussing on Activision. Everyone does it. Just accept it. Consume and then go back to sleep. E3 Hype is coming. Wait to you see what we have for you to preorder.

Sorry, I forgot that Activision-Blizzard is forced to do this thing that they clearly benefit from :( Poor Bobby Kotick, how much more does this man have to endure in his life?
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,508
The onus is on you to prove that Activision has lobbied for this and what part they ultimately played in it.
Meet Hendrik J. Hartong III, Chairman and CEO of Brynwood partners
hendrik.jpg


He also sits on the ACTI board

He, his family and his firm have donated tens of thousands of dollars to candidates, personal donations in the tens of thousands to John McCain and Mitt Romney alone, both Republicans. The same Republican party that passed an unprecedented corporate tax cut to men and women in his bracket, a move that enriches him at the expense of wages for working-class folks.

That took me 10 minutes to look up just a single concrete example; I could probably trivially find a heap more if I were interested in proving anything more to you but eh.
 

smash_robot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
994
The government is corrupt BECAUSE of these corporations. People in Government didn't create a loopholed tax regulation because they're dumb.
No they create a loopholed tax regulation because they are corrupt and hence they are in the pockets of corporations. Buy you know, that's still on them. They made the choice to take the money.
 

nel e nel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,134
Can someone explain this like I'm 5? Activision just set up a base in Amsterdam and say they don't need to pay tax?

Companies are typically taxed based on where there headquarters are located. So the tl;dr version is these companies make their headquarters in countries with little to no corporate taxes.
 

Waddle Dee

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,725
California
I haven't played Sekiro yet, but when I do I'll rent it or buy it used. The only game I've bought from Activision in the past half decade is the Spyro Trilogy. I'll rent Crash Team Racing as well.

Blame Trump and the GOP, and their tax cuts which have pushed federal deficits to all-time highs. Here's the report:

https://itep.org/wp-content/uploads...ce-Remains-Rampant-Under-New-Tax-Law_ITEP.pdf

Other companies in the list paying no US federal taxes include Amazon, Chevron, Delta, Halliburton, Honeywell, IBM, Netflix, and many more.

I often hear about evil Activision laying off people despite record revenue etc., but I rarely see it mentioned that this years numbers will be far below last years, or that Blizzard's revenue this year is going to be a multi-year low.

You're one of the most transparent af corporate stooges on this forum. You just can't help yourself whenever Jim Sterling is brought up.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,959
Meet Hendrik J. Hartong III, Chairman and CEO of Brynwood partners
hendrik.jpg


He also sits on the ACTI board

He, his family and his firm have donated tens of thousands of dollars to candidates, personal donations in the tens of thousands to John McCain and Mitt Romney alone, both Republicans. The same Republican party that passed an unprecedented corporate tax cut to men and women in his bracket, a move that enriches him at the expense of wages for working-class folks.

That took me 10 minutes to look up just a single concrete example; I could probably trivially find a heap more if I were interested in proving anything more to you but eh.
Irrelevant. Lots of people and companies donate to politicians. Doesn't mean they were writing tax laws. If all it takes is supporting the GOP then almost half the country is guilty of this situation.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,959
You're one of the most transparent af corporate stooges on this forum. You just can't help yourself whenever Jim Sterling is brought up.
You can't help yourself, can you? All I did was post facts, and a link to the actual report the video was based on. Instead of a thank you, you attack me for no reason. Grow up.