Jim Sterling: Shadow Of The Tomb Raider - A Shadow Of Its Former Self (READ OP)

[Hey Please]

I do watch his work at times, I also agree he has done some great work on highlighting the greedy and dishonest areas of the games industry.

My post was a reference to the he is right most of the time, which I disagree with. As much as he can be a conduit of hate himself with how he portrays his argument. He comes across with a black or white view at times and certainly can lean on the negative side far more often. I would love to see a positive video (for example) on the BC work MS have done on Xbox. Spending all that time, resource and cost to provide free improvements across a wealth of titles for its audience. This certainly has a financial or brand gain no doubt but the net result is a positive for the consumer, instead I DID see his video entitled "The xbox is a bit sh*t", far to negative and perpetuating the hate mob mindset.

He points in this video are almost obvious, like hating a racing game because the scenery is repetitive. He complains that it centres on exploring, stealth, swinging and stealing from Tombs, not a surprise, Some things are obviously just a part of the game. In this video he makes his first 30 seconds on a small glitch that can (and does) happen in a great deal of games, minor but would be a better and more creative joke to work it INTO the video. He shortly states the previous games had solid combat, which they certainly did not, in fact I would say it was one of the weaker parts of Rise and caused many issues hence why I think they have paired back on them here AND added in the stealth. This video just seemed like a fast (dare I day Lazy) low effort journalism. I hope that explains my point better?

And thank you.

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Thanks for the well reasoned response. My counterpoints are:

1. There are myriad channels on YT dedicated on highlighting the consumer friendly practices, features and updates by MS, Sony and Nintendo (like Outside Xbox, Playstation Access, NVC etc).
2. The whole polarizing theatrics Jim does is to establish an over the top character who is at his core is anti "corporate shill" with evidence. He is one of the biggest progressive personalities whose dramatic social commentaries do mock and expose aforementioned toxicity (and those who participate in it) entrenched in the medium.
3. Honestly, his titles are far far more mild in comparison to a multitude of other click bait videos that are actually trash and perpetuate conspiracies, right wing propaganda, Youtube drama etc. In the title you highlighted, he did put "bit" in it and given I am currently vexed by my X, I could certainly watch the video to see if the points are relevant or relatable to me.
4. With regards to this specific video, I agree with you about the combat and completely disagree with Jim about the overall quality of Rise (to me it fell well short of my expectations). However, it is important to remember that it was not a review, rather an "impression" and to that end, I think it was based off an incomplete playthrough (which he is not keen on completing). Suffice it to say, I got the impression of his fatigue with the franchise (ITT, I have already mentioned, that I am burnt out too after playing RoTTR and seeing Lara's progression as a character) given his expectations. Yes, I do agree that the video title's pun is meant as a click bait but just like the channel, DailyDoseofInternet, Jim generally follows through with actual substance (regardless of whether the audience agrees with it or not).

Off topic: I forgot to say that as a subscriber, it is good to see you back this year in full force and vigor and a ton of content. I feared you might take a long sabbatical your announcements last year. I do hope that like Digital Foundry, some day you can upload non-compressed analysis videos for your patrons/subscribers because 1080p compression on YT is still below par.

 

[Ragnarsson]

I was expecting a hyperbolic video... and instead I watched a reasonable stance on a videogame. We don't all have to like or praise the same shit. He's not even saying the game is terrible, he's just saying it's a game that does everything fine and is mostly competent in everything it does, but isn't really that interesting. What the hell is wrong with some people in this thread?

 

[panda-zebra]

Thanks for the well reasoned response. My counterpoints are:

1. There are myriad channels on YT dedicated on highlighting the consumer friendly practices, features and updates by MS, Sony and Nintendo (like Outside Xbox, Playstation Access, NVC etc).
2. The whole polarizing theatrics Jim does is to establish a over the top character who is at his core is anti "corporate shill" with evidence. He is one of the biggest progressive personalities whose dramatic social commentaries do mock and expose aforementioned toxicity (and those who participate in it) entrenched in the medium.
3. Honestly, his titles are far far more mild than some of other click bait videos that are actually trash and perpetuate conspiracies, right wing propaganda, Youtube drama etc. In the title he highlighted, he did put "bit" in it and given I am currently vexed by my X, I could certainly watch the video to see if the points are relevant or relatable to me.
4. With regards to this specific video, I agree with you about the combat and completely disagree with Jim about the overall quality of Rise (to me it fell well short of my expectations). However, it is important to remember that it was not a review, rather an "impression" and to that end, I think it was based off an incomplete playthrough (which he is not keen on completing). Suffice it to say, I got the impression of his fatigue with the franchise (ITT, I have already mentioned, that I am burnt out too after playing RoTTR and seeing Lara's progression as a character) given his expectations. Yes, I do agree that the video title's pun is meant as a click bait but just like the channel, DailyDoseofInternet, Jim generally follows through with actual substance (regardless of whether the audience agrees with it or not).

Off topic: I forgot to say that as a subscriber, it is good to see you back this year in full force and vigor and a ton of content. I feared you might take a long sabbatical your announcements last year. I do hope that like Digital Foundry, some day you can upload non-compressed analysis videos for your patrons/subscribers because 1080p compression on YT is still below par.

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good post

 

[Deleted member 364]

What exactly is controversial or inflammatory of this video? I'm watching the video right now and the first thing he literally says is "Shadow of the Tomb Raider is...fine. It's okay. It's alright. It's not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination." That doesn't seem like shitting on the game to me...

Even if he didn't like it, what exactly is the problem? So he's a guy that played a video game and didn't like it, what's the issue with that? I mean Breath of the Wild is my favorite game of all time, but I get that he didn't like it as much as me. He didn't even hate that one, he just didn't like it as much as everyone else. I don't agree with his review of BotW, but why should we be calling for his head over that? I mean I have an "outlandish" personal opinion that Star Fox Zero is the best game in the series, but you would be hard pressed to find anyone that agrees with me or even thinks that game is good, and I totally get where those people are coming from. I don't accuse everyone else of shitting on the game.

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You're over thinking it. It's just the title of the video that pissed people off.

 

[Neo_MG90]

I was planning on picking this game 75% off in the future, since it looked more of the same, but if it's worse than the other games then I guess I'll just save the money.

 

[Angie]

People are upset why exactly?
He likes the previous games, this one just didn't click with him. That's it. He even says that the game plays well, and looks great.

Is that important for some of you that Jim likes this game? Will your purchace feel more validated if he does, or something like that? lol

 

[Deleted member 17388]

It isn't a particulary provocative review, and falls in-line with the written reviews of the other day.
Seems that he didn't enjoy the game by the lack of thrilling moments. The formula for the nu-reboot games seemed to be paced around shooting sequences (Which makes me question if now it possibly feels more "quiet" in general...)
I guess it's ideal for those who enjoyed how movement around sections felt the previous games.

 

[gamerman]

It looks like Jim didn't bother finishing the game. He wanted Lara to be a mass murderer and engage in set piece after set piece. Jim found swimming, climbing, puzzles, story and exploration mundane. I guess he wanted to play Dude Raider not Tomb Raider. I am actually glad the game lives up to its name. At least, he gave it a 10/10 for people who like swimming.

 

[-JD-]

Looking back, I legitimately think some people assumed this was Jimquisition without having watched the video.

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Yes and this might be a reach but I'm thinking there's some considerable overlap between Shenmue fans and Tomb Raider fans. lol

 

[Rbrogue]

Watched it and found it rather inoffensive. His review did not dissuade me from buying the game nor do I feel like it tried to.

Y'all are reacting to the title of the video more than the content of the review.

 

[Boy Wander]

You're over thinking it. It's just the title of the video that pissed people off.

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Why though? If you watch the video, it's pretty obvious that it's a knowing crap pun, ,which is even emphasised in a sarcastic sounding tone at the end of the video.

 

[Segafreak]

Jim is right most of the time and here too he is, game looks generic as hell. An okay action game at best, Lara in this new iteration is just a boring main character and visually (artistically) the games don't look good. A "well made, perfectly fine game", like Jim said. But it's so dull, mundane and unenergetic, I just don't care, which is a shame cuz I like these type of games.

 

[Popetita]

I am sorry, this was a very shitty review IMO. I am not sure if he bothered to even finish the game and that jab at underwater sections? WTF.

I have seen some of his other videos and I know he aims for controversy, but this one seems a lazy attempt at a review that doesn't seem finished. It feels like an exercise to insult a pretty decent game, that even he says it is perfectly ok but has to use his mocking tone.

I completely disagree with the review. His thoughts about how it feels off are just how I feel about the review itself, not the game. To each their own but I've seen other less revered reviewers been given shit for doing a review like this.

 

[AlexBasch]

This is true too. I've always disliked the hype culture going back to my time on Gaf, where I felt like OTs were considered "safe" havens and no dissent was allowed. Not by the mods, but by the crowd there who would try to shout away anyone who said something bad. Then of course the pre-release hype threads where everyone wants to paste their avatar on a hype train...that always rubbed me the wrong way. That kind of excitement clouds judgement and critical thinking and it leads to things going wrong when reviews come in and are lower than expected.

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Thank you so much for this post.

This is pretty much why I look down on those people who plaster their Kratos/Spiderman avatars like fucking everywhere right when the game was announced and whatnot, goodbye being objective and all aboard the hype train in which you'll be shouted down or being called "anti-Sony" if you dare question something about an exclusive game.

This fucking place is worse than GameFAQs but at least mods curbstomp racism and sexism, other than that, the discourse level of ERA is pretty laughable.

 

[Manu]

Jimpressions are not reviews.

 

[Thorrgal]

Thank you so much for this post.

This is pretty much why I look down on those people who plaster their Kratos/Spiderman avatars like fucking everywhere right when the game was announced and whatnot, goodbye being objective and all aboard the hype train in which you'll be shouted down or being called "anti-Sony" if you dare question something about an exclusive game.

This fucking place is worse than GameFAQs but at least mods curbstomp racism and sexism, other than that, the discourse level of ERA is pretty laughable.

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To be fair GoW and Spiderman are excellent games so the hype was warranted.

I just came from the store where I picked up Shadow, will try it tomorrow. I didn't like Rise that much so have high hopes for this one

 

[SnatcherHunter]

The thing is the person you quoted (post with avatar quote) highlighted "annoying as fuck" part, so that's the main reason why they avatar quoted Neoraider in the first place.

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Gotcha..
I should have been more descriptive.

 

[AlexBasch]

To be fair GoW and Spiderman are excellent games so the hype was warranted.

I just came from the store where I picked up Shadow, will try it tomorrow. I didn't like Rise that much so have high hopes for this one

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Yeah, I loved GoW and the previous games. But I found it funny how the whole series was trashed down by most people but then this was Jesus second coming. Still had a few issues with a lack of enemy variety but it's a great game. People who called out the lack of enemy variety got shouted and criticized though, which is why I find the fanboys annoying.

Cannot speak about Spiderman right now since I haven't played it, got tired of open world games with maps to complete, so I'll wait for a $19.99 sale in a few years I guess. Good if people are enjoying the game without hurling insults to those who didn't find it as the "best superhero game ever made" and such.

 

[Thorrgal]

Yeah, I loved GoW and the previous games. But I found it funny how the whole series was trashed down by most people but then this was Jesus second coming. Still had a few issues with a lack of enemy variety but it's a great game. People who called out the lack of enemy variety got shouted and criticized though, which is why I find the fanboys annoying.

Cannot speak about Spiderman right now, got tired of open world games with maps to complete, so I'll wait for a $19.99 sale in a few years I guess. Good if people are enjoying the game without hurling insults to those who didn't find it as the "best superhero game ever made" and such.

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It's actually much better than I thought it would be.

Regarding GoW no game is perfect, but the same thing happened for SoT in the MS OT thread

 

[Jarmel]

People lost their shit over a meh 'review'?

 

[sensui-tomo]

People lost their shit over a meh 'review'?

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I wouldn't call it a review, more like an impression video, but yeah, shit was lost.

 

[Deleted member 30151]

Like many times, I have to agree with Sterling. From the first gameplay I saw from Shadow of the Tomb Raider I knew, this doesn't impress me at all. Everything looks like a rehash from the games before and with Rhianna Pratchett gone from the series, even the story (which always was well narrated, of course not spectacular creative) feels dull. The game feels overall like a "Let's get the job done" game. It's neither bad or boring, but Sterling hits the spot, it's highly forgettable.

 

[Jarmel]

I wouldn't call it a review, more like an impression video, but yeah, shit was lost.

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Hence why I put quotation marks around review. Dude didn't even trash the game.

 

[Boy Wander]

I am sorry, this was a very shitty review IMO. I am not sure if he bothered to even finish the game and that jab at underwater sections? WTF.

I have seen some of his other videos and I know he aims for controversy, but this one seems a lazy attempt at a review that doesn't seem finished. It feels like an exercise to insult a pretty decent game, that even he says it is perfectly ok but has to use his mocking tone.

I completely disagree with the review. His thoughts about how it feels off are just how I feel about the review itself, not the game. To each their own but I've seen other less revered reviewers been given shit for doing a review like this.

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They're called Jimpressions for a reason. It's his impressions at the time he makes the video. If he doesn't like the game much or isn't taken enough with it to finish the game then that's his prerogative - and he points out WHY that's the case.

The review explains why he's not enamoured with it:

1) The setting is dull compared to the previous 2 games.
2) It's very similar to the previous 2 games and adds nothing to the formula which has worn thin.
3) Climbing/Puzzles/Swimming not enough to hold the game up given less combat.

He even points out that if you LIKE those aspects, you'll probably love the game.

There's not even really anything controversial in there - he points out that he spent 2 days with the game and that he'd had enough and yet he replayed the first 2 games.

I don't understand why you think the review is shit when it sounds like you just don't agree with the points made. I could understand it if it was a 2 minute video where he just went "This is a bit shit", but he actually makes all of the points I've mentioned above in a 7 minute review.

 

[ShiningBash]

You know, I was expecting one of his blowhard-y videos, like when he goes on about microtransactions. However, this is probably the most level review I've seen from him. Basically, he calls the game fine and says he didn't care for the gameplay loop. He also consistently refers to it as a polished effort.

In short, if you like the gameplay elements he described, his review let's you know it's a solidly built game that you'll enjoy. If you share his views on game pace, puzzles, and story, then his review let's you know you won't enjoy the game. I kinda wish more reviews took a stronger stance on critical game elements, because then I'd have a better idea if I'd like them.

 

[AlexBasch]

Like many times, I have to agree with Sterling. From the first gameplay I saw from Shadow of the Tomb Raider I knew, this doesn't impress me at all. Everything looks like a rehash from the games before and with Rhianna Pratchett gone from the series, even the story (which always was well narrated, of course not spectacular creative) feels dull. The game feels overall like a "Let's get the job done" game. It's neither bad or boring, but Sterling hits the spot, it's highly forgettable.

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Wait, she's gone completely from TR? I didn't follow the development of this game and I'm actually working on beating the second one but TR 2013 was a fun experience. It's too bad she left, still it's funny that I didn't follow this game at all, like if I knew something is missing.

Regarding GoW no game is perfect, but the same thing happened for SoT in the MS OT thread

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Fair enough.

 

[TwistedChemical]

I felt the exact same way about the last game. Things were exploding all around me, the story wasn't really moving. While everything was supposed to be exciting...I
/Laura was just hanging there watching everything explode and I was just thinking 'why?'

Explosions were just happening without any real reason or care. It was like watching an opening to Raw is War in 99 only to be followed up by 2000 WCW storylines.

 

[R_thanatos]

Just watched the video. I swear jimsterling has some gift to find bugs in games. That part with the fish .. was well .. what can i say .
I didn't find anything wrong with it. I guess if i liked the action and the chase sequences in the previous ones i should know that this one has less of them i guess ?
So it's a pretty game , wih high production values that was fine and is enjoyable .. it just didn't set the world on fire witch should be fine for the tomb raider fans.

i'm personnaly not a big tomb raider fan , only a couple of entries managed to hold my interest ( 2 , 4 , anniversary and the reboot ) , tried the others but didn't like them. Those impressions seems fine.

 

[jimboton]

HAHA PERSONALLY INSULTING JIM IS FUN EVERYONE

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Aren't you a big man for insulting a person's intelligence. Yikes.

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Lol I see Sterling defense force is still alive and well.

Not insulting anyone, he *has* had trouble in the past with even small amounts of exploration/puzzles with not enough hand holding e.g. Yooka Laylee.

 

[Kin5290]

Sterling has his own style. I like some of his content and i dislike some of it. That being said, his content is not even being discussed in this thread due to all the shitposts whose only contributions are personal attacks on the person. Again. Like in every thread about his content.

Feel free to make a 'Jim Sterling is terrible' thread. This thread is still about his review of Shadow of the Tomb Raider, even after the derails. To which i don't want to contribute any more.

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Speaking of the content of the video, if he's complaining about a relative lack of combat in a series where a constant request by series fans was to increase the amount of exploration relative to combat, that just shows his opinion should be disregarded.

 

[Popetita]

They're called Jimpressions for a reason. It's his impressions at the time he makes the video. If he doesn't like the game much or isn't taken enough with it to finish the game then that's his prerogative - and he points out WHY that's the case.

The review explains why he's not enamoured with it:

1) The setting is dull compared to the previous 2 games.
2) It's very similar to the previous 2 games and adds nothing to the formula which has worn thin.
3) Climbing/Puzzles/Swimming not enough to hold the game up given less combat.

He even points out that if you LIKE those aspects, you'll probably love the game.

There's not even really anything controversial in there - he points out that he spent 2 days with the game and that he'd had enough and yet he replayed the first 2 games.

I don't understand why you think the review is shit when it sounds like you just don't agree with the points made. I could understand it if it was a 2 minute video where he just went "This is a bit shit", but he actually makes all of the points I've mentioned above in a 7 minute review.

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This is from the mod edit:

This is a video game review made by a YouTube personality. Watch the video and share how you feel or don't post.

I was not aware it was only impressions and from what he said I doubt he reviews the game so my comment stands.

It is not a very good work by him and seems very lazy to me. I am not saying I disagree because it is controversial but because I feel he did a bad job at the review/impression.

He says the setting is dull but does not offer a lot more like say the Kotaku review that says it is a bit dull because the reviewer thinks the setting is a bit played out.

It is very similar to the games can be both good and bad, but he goes after it in a mocking tone.

If he had been paying attention, at least I was, he would have seen that the developers made a conscious choice to go more toward exploration thatn the action.

He calls out the story for calling out the violence, but still, it is bad because they did it too late? This I think is a bs argument when they have actually addressed a thing a lot of games have been called out for. But I guess with this one I can just agree to disagree.

it is not only that I disagree with most of what he said, but the way he comports himself and the way the review/impression is done seems very lazy to me. I've have seen and read better review by a mile and I think this one is shit.

 

[Boy Wander]

This is from the mod edit:

This is a video game review made by a YouTube personality. Watch the video and share how you feel or don't post.

I was not aware it was only impressions and from what he said I doubt he reviews the game so my comment stands.

It is not a very good work by him and seems very lazy to me. I am not saying I disagree because it is controversial but because I feel he did a bad job at the review/impression.

He says the setting is dull but does not offer a lot more like say the Kotaku review that says it is a bit dull because the reviewer thinks the setting is a bit played out.

It is very similar to the games can be both good and bad, but he goes after it in a mocking tone.

If he had been paying attention, at least I was, he would have seen that the developers made a conscious choice to go more toward exploration thatn the action.

He calls out the story for calling out the violence, but still, it is bad because they did it too late? This I think is a bs argument when they have actually addressed a thing a lot of games have been called out for. But I guess with this one I can just agree to disagree.

it is not only that I disagree with most of what he said, but the way he comports himself and the way the review/impression is done seems very lazy to me. I've have seen and read better review by a mile and I think this one is shit.

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He pretty much does say that the devs made a conscious choice to tone down the violence, probably because of the backlash about her basically becoming a killing machine in the last 2 games. However, he feels that the climbing etc isn't enough to hold the game together.

I think Jim's style probably isn't for you because this is one of his more toned down videos.

To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of Jim but I do think he puts across some valid points, but sometimes he actually lessens the impact of these by how he says things.

 

[Pixel Grotto]

Game seems like it has the same problems as Rise did. I liked TR2013 but all the collectible grabbing and dull side quests in Rise made it a lesser experience IMO. And I didn't really find Lara interesting.

Will probably wait for a sale for this one

 

[Deleted member 364]

Why though? If you watch the video, it's pretty obvious that it's a knowing crap pun, ,which is even emphasised in a sarcastic sounding tone at the end of the video.

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yeah but a lot of people will just see the title, be like "oh the new tomb raider game sucks I guess" and not bother actually watching.

 

[Lashley]

Just watched it there, don't get why some here are so upset with what he said? He personally didn't find it enjoyable, whats wrong with that?

 

[Lashley]

Speaking of the content of the video, if he's complaining about a relative lack of combat in a series where a constant request by series fans was to increase the amount of exploration relative to combat, that just shows his opinion should be disregarded.

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Clue is there, it's his opinion ffs

He personally enjoyed the combat in TR, thats why he wants more of it.

 

[Deleted member 5864]

Just watched it there, don't get why some here are so upset with what he said? He personally didn't find it enjoyable, whats wrong with that?

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Most people who got flustered over it never actually got around to watching it in the first place, that's why.

 

[Lashley]

Most people who got flustered over it never actually got around to watch it in the first place, that's why.

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Very true

 

[Dick Justice]

I was expecting a hyperbolic video... and instead I watched a reasonable stance on a videogame. We don't all have to like or praise the same shit. He's not even saying the game is terrible, he's just saying it's a game that does everything fine and is mostly competent in everything it does, but isn't really that interesting. What the hell is wrong with some people in this thread?

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Insecure fanboys/fangirls are a curious breed of gamer.

 

[DGS]

Sounds reasonable. With each new trailer the game looked more and more boring to me.

After Spider-Man I'd rather play DQXI, I guess.

 

[Shmunter]

Man is a total asset to the gaming scene. The busy work and pointless open ended-ness is a major issue in games today. All downhill from a well balanced linear game that was TR2013.

 

[MegaSackman]

Jimpressions are not reviews.

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Wasn't he actually done with reviews? I don't follow him much, but I remember that he retired from making reviews a while ago and about a month or two I'm seeing new "reviews" from him throwed up here.

Edit: I asume is always these impressions which wouldn't be reviews but people call them like that.

 

[Creamium]

He doesn't even dump on the game that much, just thinks it's average. People need to take some distance, it's not worth getting worked up over

 

[Deleted member 15447]

I see nothing that controversial in this video. He's saying without a lot of combat you're left with a lot of modernized climbing and "puzzles" and picking up collectibles which makes for a pretty boring game a lot of the time. The other TRs hid how boring the rest of the game was by making you kill a thousand enemies. The core of this modernized series just cannot support something that's 60% non combat. It doesn't mean that games without a lot of combat are inherently bad, it just means that this series is not very good without a lot of combat.

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Surprised to hear anyone say they want more combat.

It's the lack of combat that makes this my favourite Tomb Raider game in a long time.

The exploration and actual 'tomb raiding' is great and if they got rid of her pointless sidekick Jonah it would be even better.

It will be interesting to see where the game goes from here. I personally feel and I'm sure many others are the same, that fighting countless hordes of humans in a tomb raider game is frustrating and boring.

 

[Lashley]

Surprised to hear anyone say they want more combat.

It's the lack of combat that makes this my favourite Tomb Raider game in a long time.

The exploration and actual 'tomb raiding' is great and if they got rid of her pointless sidekick Jonah it would be even better.

It will be interesting to see where the game goes from here. I personally feel and I'm sure many others are the same, that fighting countless hordes of humans in a tomb raider game is frustrating and boring.

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Get out

 

[Snake Eater]

He makes good points and I can't really disagree with what he's saying but I will still give this game a shot at a steep discount, especially with near 50% of th tombs being locked behind a paywall

 

[Wamb0wneD]

He doesn't even dump on the game that much, just thinks it's average. People need to take some distance, it's not worth getting worked up over

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The problem is most of the people in here bitching about Sterling or the review didn't even watch it because "they don't want to give him clicks".

 

[Viceratops]

After watching the video, it seems extremely mild at best. The title of the video is without a doubt causing the fuss.

 

[Popetita]

He pretty much does say that the devs made a conscious choice to tone down the violence, probably because of the backlash about her basically becoming a killing machine in the last 2 games. However, he feels that the climbing etc isn't enough to hold the game together.

I think Jim's style probably isn't for you because this is one of his more toned down videos.

To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of Jim but I do think he puts across some valid points, but sometimes he actually lessens the impact of these by how he says things.

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I have seen other of his videos and yeah I usually don't agree and it is not my type but this one was different. You say it is toned down, but to me it just seemed very lazy attempt at a review/preview.

Overall I disagree with his views on the video and the game.

 

[DrDeckard]

I love how we have someone asking for more combat in a tomb raider game now. We have gone full circle.