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Oct 28, 2017
1,951
Since the previous thread was closed, I'll add this note here as well..
For all those who don't know, the developers had said on their steam page that all funds from this would go to the protests in Hong Kong, so maybe this is what caused Valve to act on it
Wait what? Did the developers actually say that!?
Because this could be a really bad thing, because this amounts to Steam platform being used to crowdfund a political or military or personal action/attack against some.

Can one imagine if someone wants to put another game on steam and the developer saying "all the funds from this would to go halting X public projects or blowing up something here and there or hacking this public figure's twitter account".
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,104
Pakistan
Wait what? Did the developers actually say that!?
Because this could be a really bad thing, because this amounts to Steam platform being used to crowdfund a political or military or personal action/attack against some.

Can one imagine if someone wants to put another game on steam and the developer saying "all the funds from this would to go halting X public projects or blowing up something here and there or hacking this public figure's twitter account".

Correction here.. they didn't say it on their steam page but in an interview article... my bad

"The team behind Liberate Hong Kong said it has submitted the title to Valve Corp.'s game distribution platform Steam, which has yet to grant approval. Forcing Valve to make a decision either way was itself intended to keep the Hong Kong matter in the global public eye, Lam said. If Valve declines, the developers plan to post their own download link online, keeping the PC version of the game free and charging HK$100 ($12.80) for a VR edition. All profits will be donated to a fundraiser for protesters, Lam said. Valve marketing chief Doug Lombardi did not respond to a request for comment"
 

JCG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,537
At this point, we can't really know for sure...but it's unlikely that anything other than political interference (or fear of the same) is getting in the way of releasing those games. Which wouldn't be such a big deal, on paper, if it weren't for the fact other openly political games are available on Steam. That makes this an inconsistent policy.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,533
These devs should help themselves by employing a bit of ingenuity and subtlety when it comes to these games. If not to make Valve's life easier by giving them plausible deniability, then to circumvent their shitty unofficial rules. I haven't seen the video and so I can't say if some devs are already doing this.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,238
What other instances of Valve not putting a game on their store has there been?


Mainly game-shaped objects, games that exploit Steam cards, games with inappropriate depictions of minors. These are the golden rules as per the Steamworks site:

What you shouldn't publish on Steam said:
  1. Adult content that isn't appropriately labeled and age-gated
  2. Libelous or defamatory statements
  3. Content you don't own or have adequate rights to
  4. Content that violates the laws of any jurisdiction in which it will be available
  5. Content that exploits children in any way
  6. Applications that modify customer's computers in unexpected or harmful ways, such as malware or viruses
  7. Applications that fraudulently attempts to gather sensitive information, such as Steam credentials or financial data (e.g. credit card information)

I can see how no. 4 might be the relevant one here. Though, honestly, with a lot of rules in let's say more authoritarian regimes being formulated very vaguely so as to have a wide berth and an utterly subjective application, I can think of a bunch of games that if they were prominently featured in said countries' news or had some kind of relationship to the political opposition (however tangential), they might suddenly become contentious.

Games that center around blasphemy or non-heteronormative relationships, for example, might become a problem in Russia. There are also explicit laws limiting foreign funding of political movements (look up "foreign agent law" Russia), so a game like the one discussed here that intends to use proceeds for domestic political activism would likely be out of the question. If you'd interpret such laws broadly, you could pull an argument out of your ass against every tenth game on Steam. Like the old laws against anti-Soviet agitation and counter-revolutionary activities, it can be used against anything and anyone. Except now mass incarcerations aren't in vogue anymore. The goal of these kinds of governments isn't necessarily to censor everything, but to get everyone to tip-toe around certain controversial subjects and exercise self-censorship, because there is simply too much information that goes around too quickly to censor it all "manually". Fear and economic incentives keep the process rolling on its own. And we see it working exactly as planned right here. It's Valve who does the dirty work by making this (non-)decision and catching heat for it, not the Chinese government.
 
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CommodoreKong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,710
The sad truth is the matter is that any company that makes money in China is going to bend to the will of the Chinese government when it comes to stuff like this. China is too big of a market to ignore and it's going to just become a bigger and bigger market. It's really too bad but I don't see anything changing anytime soon.




Tim says that now but I'll believe it when I see it, considering the 40% share of Epic that Tencent owns.
I'm sure things work a little bit differently on the board in a privately owned company than a public one but I can't see Epic totally ignoring the Tencent members on the board or possibly closing themselves off from China for as long as the current government is in power.
 

Deleted member 49535

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2018
2,825
Well, time for the Blizzard boycotters to add Valve and Steam to their list (they won't).

This is actually worse than what Blizzard did. What Blizzard did was basically what any sports organization would have done in a similar situation. This is just straight up censorship.
 

horkrux

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,733
Still amazes me in a bad way that capitalism was supposed to be the channel through which Western democratic ideals could be exported to the world. Now that channel is instead being used to import totalitarian ideals to the West instead.

At first I was like haha, true

But then I realized that capitalism has never been about democracy in any shape or form.
Think pre WW1 Europe f.e., or even longer ago.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,754



I wonder if Tim would love that China company to sell their share. EGS is so slow to add games in it's queue though, they can't even fit their own classic games like the Unreal Collection. Getting those protest games in won't be easy.
VA3wHY4.jpg


thats lip service, and Tim has walked back (lie) on what he said in the past. lets see the walk and ill believe the talk.
 

Kurtofan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,082
Still amazes me in a bad way that capitalism was supposed to be the channel through which Western democratic ideals could be exported to the world. Now that channel is instead being used to import totalitarian ideals to the West instead.

capitalism was always about making money, all the democracy stuff was just marketing.
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
Still amazes me in a bad way that capitalism was supposed to be the channel through which Western democratic ideals could be exported to the world. Now that channel is instead being used to import totalitarian ideals to the West instead.

Money talks. When your sole definition of success is defined by money, as modest capitalistic societies do, it's pretty easy to see how this happens. If human civilization wants to survive past this century we have to move past capitalism and greed a species. It will never happen, but it is what's needed.
 

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
Taiwanese here, shit is depressing.

What the fuck happened to your beliefs Americans? The eagle of freedom is bowing down to the communist panda, fucking unbelievable.
 

SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
Absolutely, this is why Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and Activision Blizzard are showing Xi and his govt what freedom is by funding and publishing projects in direct support of Hong Kong and Uyghurs.

It's also one of the reasons why Nintendo had moved their hardware production out of China & into Vietnam.

I don't know about Microsoft & Sony, though.

Time for Epic Game Store to win some big publicity for doing what Steam won't do and sell these two games.

LMAO

Tencent owns Epic, buddy. And guess where Tencent's from?
 
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Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
It's also one of the reasons why Nintendo had moved their console production out of China & into Vietnam.

I don't know about Microsoft & Sony, though.
Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft are moving some production out of china due to a mix of tariffs and that producing in China is starting to get expensive, so they have been moving production to Korea, Vietnam, and Taiwan.
 

Rosenkrantz

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,939
It's also one of the reasons why Nintendo had moved their console production out of China & into Vietnam.
That's good to hear, I still don't think anyone would want to jeopardize their possible software sales in the region, assuming Party won't crackdown on the entirety of gaming in a near future (which doesn't sound too outlandish tbh).
 

Sidebuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,406
California
Honestly, they (and every other country against government sanctioned atrocities) should pull out of China completely. I know it's easy to say in my position, but somebody needs to put the squeeze on them since we can't (nor shouldn't) really go to war. There are other ways these days to make positive change other than by violence. Cutting them off from the world economy is one way.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
I mean, the fact that the EGS store has a grand total of 0 games that throw political shade at China says enough. Actions, not words.
Eh, how many of those games are out. Though if that scary game showed up that would be a good one since people seemed to like it, if that dev company is around. Then they would have to also get on EGS' list of games to make it to the store, however that process works. Also it's Steam that usually let's any kind of game on their platform and stopped at these games. EGS is known for being heavily curated.

I remembered that one person did at least mention they were disappointed in a situation that happened, the Overwatch guy. He actually mentioned the situation rather than dance around it like the Blizzcon opening guy.
 
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Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
Saying something publicly is meaningless. Companies say similar things all the time and don't back them up.
Saying something seems to hurt since Blizzard didn't even want to do that, they didn't even mention what they were sorry for. Saying stuff seems to get them in trouble. Jeff Kaplan saying what he did even seems bold, but I'm sure if they fired him he'd have a place to go. They can't fire Tim, he owns Epic, and probably wouldn't mind if Tencent sold.
 

Nzyme32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,245
Yet to see a company with large interest in China actually push back.
At least in this case the option is there to push the game on Steam outside of China - if Valve grant that
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,227
Saying something seems to hurt since Blizzard didn't even want to do that, they didn't even mention what they were sorry for. Saying stuff seems to get them in trouble. Jeff Kaplan saying what he did even seems bold, but I'm sure if they fired him he'd have a place to go. They can't fire Tim, he owns Epic, and probably wouldn't mind if Tencent sold.
You're right. That blizzard has a said lots of things in support equality supports the idea that saying something is meaningless until you back it up with actions. If a minority share can cause blizzard to kowtow to three Chinese communist party, then the same could happen to Epic. How much of a share does ten cent have in valve?
 

Deleted member 10726

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,674
ResetERA
Wishlisted Karma and won't be buying anything on Steam until it and the other pro-Hong Kong games are out. Given there are plenty of directly political games out there on Steam, it makes no fucking sense for this to be where they draw the line.



PS: Hoo boy is the Community Hub on this a shitshow.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
You're right. That blizzard has a said lots of things in support equality supports the idea that saying something is meaningless until you back it up with actions. If a minority share can cause blizzard to kowtow to three Chinese communist party, then the same could happen to Epic. How much of a share does ten cent have in valve?
I did not say that. I think it's good that Jeff said something about the situation.

I don't know how much Tencen have in Valve, but they have very little in Blizzard, and they couldn't even mention Hong Kong or the player in their apology/non apology.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,227
I did not say that. I think it's good that Jeff said something about the situation.

I don't know how much Tencen have in Valve, but they have very little in Blizzard, and they couldn't even mention Hong Kong or the player in their apology/non apology.
You're saying that epic won't be hurt by saying something because ten cent has a minority share, when they have a much smaller share in blizzard. Clearly it's not the shares that are the motivating factor. It would be a mistake to put any trust in epic here.
 

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
Funny how most of the posts are either making excuses for Valve or deflecting into EGS. It's not like legality has ever been an issue for Valve, as racism and homophobia is illegal here and we still see Valve publish games containing racism and homophobia from time to time.

The truth is that people have way too much games/money invested in the platform and they won't be willing to ditch it no matter what they do.
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,339
Particularly bad in this case considering Valve has no public shareholders to answer to if they lose the China market revenue. They'd get along just fine without it.This is just pure greed.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
You're saying that epic won't be hurt by saying something because ten cent has a minority share, when they have a much smaller share in blizzard. Clearly it's not the shares that are the motivating factor. It would be a mistake to put any trust in epic here.
I have no idea if Epic would be hurt, the other businesses acting the way they do makes it seem like they'd get in trouble if they say the wrong thing. From NBA, to videogame companies, Southpark doesn't seem to have a fear of saying what they want, where are they base, U.S., Canada? I do like that Tim said Epic is a U.S. company though. Blizzard should be too, but their China partner seem to have a lot of say in what happens.
 
OP
OP
lowhighkang_LHK
Oct 25, 2017
5,884
Las Vegas
Particularly bad in this case considering Valve has no public shareholders to answer to if they lose the China market revenue. They'd get along just fine without it.This is just pure greed.

I wonder if Valve is going to put out another statement regarding these games.

If they've learned anything from Activision-Blizzard, keeping quiet is just going to make things worse.
 

TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
Well, time for the Blizzard boycotters to add Valve and Steam to their list (they won't).

This is actually worse than what Blizzard did. What Blizzard did was basically what any sports organization would have done in a similar situation. This is just straight up censorship.

Lol good luck with that.

Let's see people stand up for the boycott when they actually have to sacrifice something they're interested it.
 

snail_maze

Member
Oct 27, 2017
974
I wonder if Valve is going to put out another statement regarding these games.

If they've learned anything from Activision-Blizzard, keeping quiet is just going to make things worse.
Honestly I think calling attention to it by releasing a statement would be worse for them from a PR point of view. I don't even know what they would say. Either they release them or they don't, an explanation either way will upset people. As it stands I would expect it to pretty much just fade away like the THQ Nordic story did
 

modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,675
México
Funny how most of the posts are either making excuses for Valve or deflecting into EGS. It's not like legality has ever been an issue for Valve, as racism and homophobia is illegal here and we still see Valve publish games containing racism and homophobia from time to time.

The truth is that people have way too much games/money invested in the platform and they won't be willing to ditch it no matter what they do.

Quoting for truth.

Would love it if Valve did the right thing, but they don't have to. They are beyond crticism for many, specially in this forum.
 

Minsc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,123
Yes, I'm sure Joe gamer will be willing to delete their account with thousands of dollars of games because of this.

This is a pretty vocal forum for protesting things like this. Curious to see how many people who actively use Steam as a platform will boycott it, if it comes to it (people who regularly buy new "full-price" releases on Steam).
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
This is a pretty vocal forum for protesting things like this. Curious to see how many people who actively use Steam as a platform will boycott it, if it comes to it (people who regularly buy new "full-price" releases on Steam).
Unfortunately some PC gamers are Steam only so it won't be easy for them. There's still time for Valve to do something.