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Jim Sterling Video - Valve Endorses AIDS Simulator

Oct 29, 2017
4,001
Isn't it funny that you rely on Valve to control what you can buy or not in an open platform anyway? If anyone can publish anything made anyway, why would people need Steam? Just to process payments? GOG is a good example, and I wish there were more smaller platforms instead of just a big one like Steam. This whole overload of lazy games would not be a problem if there was actual competition between storefronts.

Oh well.
Step 1 to being a viable Steam competitor: Get rid of your curation so people can find the games they want. For most people the GOG or itch.io experience is searching for a game, finding it was rejected for some arbitrary reason, and then never bothering again.

Step 2: Actually have a comparable feature set.
 

Taker34

QA Tester
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
591
Earth
I’m not spinning anything?
Don’t you think it’s weird he’s trying to push Valve so hard to prevent having shitty games like this on Steam, when in the end he can’t make videos about it and “gets less money”? It’s almost as if he really cares about Steam... and not himself...
 
Oct 28, 2017
463
In the blog post where Valve announced their decision, they where pretty clear about this. "If we allow your game onto the Store, it does not mean we approve or agree with anything you’re trying to say with it. If you’re a developer of offensive games, this isn’t us siding with you against all the people you’re offending.”

But how could Jim Sterling not avoid cheap controversy when it offers to him like that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
122
The idea of taking responsibility for anything that happens under their watch scares most tech companies shitless for whatever reason.
The problem is not "taking responsibility" .. the problem in wich measure you should use to police that? In GTA you can shoot not only in schools, also in hospitals, in poor neighborhoods, in the desert. You can actually target only black men, or woman. Isn't that worse? If context matter.. there is no context is GTA. You are free to do anything you wan't. Without consequences.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,599
The problem is not "taking responsibility" .. the problem in wich measure you should use to police that? In GTA you can shoot not only in schools, also in hospitals, in poor neighborhoods, in the desert. You can actually target only black men, or woman. Isn't that worse? If context matter.. there is no context is GTA. You are free to do anything you wan't. Without consequences.
Having a team to determine a set of standards for curation for games would probably help.

The hell is with this "either everything is allowed or nothing is" mindset? Where did this come from?
 

Deleted member 2785

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,119
A private company deciding to not sell a product isn't censorship.

In the blog post where Valve announced their decision, they where pretty clear about this. "If we allow your game onto the Store, it does not mean we approve or agree with anything you’re trying to say with it. If you’re a developer of offensive games, this isn’t us siding with you against all the people you’re offending.”
Well, this is certainly not how it works.
 
Oct 25, 2017
122
...you cannot shoot up schools or hospitals in GTA. Y'all. Stop lying to make your points. It's like we never left the 90s Senate hearings. Jesus.
Uh? Aren't there hospitals in GTA? Can I start using a RPG there? honestly I don't remember if there are schools but I can literally start a shooting in any point of the isle. How is this lying?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,052
User Banned (3 Days): Trolling, posting a fake game + untagged NSFW image.
If 1000 games arrive on Steam tomorrow and all of them are good. How do you expect to find specifically one of them ?
I found the one, don't worry.

Mod Edit: NSFW image removed.

Thanks Valve! (No serious, wtf is this shit come on valve.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oct 27, 2017
1,052
So, you wont answer my question ?
If 1000 are good we're in heaven period. Who fucking cares. :P

Point is, as demonstrated by the title I just shown. You're not going to find 1000 good ones in a day, let alone a year that are new. But you will find 1000 new pieces of trash that are probably burying the one good one.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,149
If 1000 are good we're in heaven period. Who fucking cares. :P

Point is, as demonstrated by the title I just shown. You're not going to find 1000 good ones in a day, let alone a year that are new. But you will find 1000 new pieces of trash that are probably burying the one good one.

LOL.
So picking up a bad game is proving good games are buried under thousands of bad games. I think you have a really unique definition of making a point.
If we're getting 1000 games who fucking care ? Well, the devs who's game isnt selling because of the crowded market.
If you had a point, good games wouldnt sell and bad games would sell. Or Steam would sell a lot less games each year. Good games keep selling, average games sell less.
Because the indie market is crowded.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,602
I found the one, don't worry.

Mod Edit: NSFW image removed.

Thanks Valve! (No serious, wtf is this shit come on valve.)

I tried finding that game without searching directly for the title. I may have missed it, could you tell us how you found that game?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oct 25, 2017
710
In the blog post where Valve announced their decision, they where pretty clear about this. "If we allow your game onto the Store, it does not mean we approve or agree with anything you’re trying to say with it. If you’re a developer of offensive games, this isn’t us siding with you against all the people you’re offending.”

But how could Jim Sterling not avoid cheap controversy when it offers to him like that.
Putting a bullshit disclaimer on your twitter account saying "my views are my own and don't represent [company i work for]" doesn't protect you from getting fired if you tweet something inflammatory which comes to the attention of said company, and it doesn't protect Valve from public criticism of their policy here.
 
Oct 28, 2017
463
If 1000 are good we're in heaven period. Who fucking cares. :P

Point is, as demonstrated by the title I just shown. You're not going to find 1000 good ones in a day, let alone a year that are new. But you will find 1000 new pieces of trash that are probably burying the one good one.
I hate to butt in, but that title doesn't exist and will never do. Come on, just look at that store page.

Besides, trash already floods Steam and unless you're searching for it you rarely will find it on your storefront.
 
Oct 28, 2017
120
What buries good indie games is better indie games. If you believe assets flip are overshadowing actual good games, you're definitely wrong.
What's burrying indies are basically bigger indies because guess what, bigger indies now come with AA or even sometimes AAA production values in a price point close to the smaller releases. We arrived in a time where there's so so many good releases everyday that being a cute platformer or a pixel metroidvania wont cut it anymore to sell a lot. Except on far less crowded places.
Also, games press could spend some of their finite time highlighting good indie games that need attention, but it is easier and makes more $$$ to feed the outrage machine. My life is now slightly worse because I know AIDS simulator exists, thanks Jim!
 

708

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,234
I found the one, don't worry.

Mod Edit: NSFW image removed.

Thanks Valve! (No serious, wtf is this shit come on valve.)
Sep 29, 2018. And here we are living on June 7, 2018.

And this game isn't even on Steam. So you're probably from the future.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oct 25, 2017
7,830
Omni
...you cannot shoot up schools or hospitals in GTA. Y'all. Stop lying to make your points. It's like we never left the 90s Senate hearings. Jesus.
You can’t shoot in schools in gta because there aren’t any schools in gta at least from what I played but you can go in a hospital in gta4 and cause destruction.
 
Oct 28, 2017
463
Putting a bullshit disclaimer on your twitter account saying "my views are my own and don't represent [company i work for]" doesn't protect you from getting fired if you tweet something inflammatory which comes to the attention of said company, and it doesn't protect Valve from public criticism of their policy here.
Thats not my point.

My point is that Jim Sterling is arguing that Steam is endorsing offensive games, which they clearly said they don't. Simple as that.

While simply allowing everything that isn't outright illegal may be bad, the opposite also stands. GTA can be considered an offensive game. It could be removed because of offensive themes like civilian killing and glorification of violence and theft. Like many others.

They've simply given up on enforcing curation. It is not the best choice, but the one they have taken. If they improve their filtering and tagging to make sure users don't need to see games with offensive themes unless they specifically search for them, i will be fine with it.

We will see how it develops.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,870
But you will find 1000 new pieces of trash that are probably burying the one good one.
Okay so this is a little pet peeve of mine. I often see something similar to this posted but quite frankly, the numbers don't add up and never did. Of the games getting released on Steam:
  1. Over 50% have positive reviews or higher.
  2. Over 75% have mixed reviews or higher.
  3. The 25% percent remaining consists heavily of games with so few players it doesn't have a review score at all.
But don't trust that alone. What about people's actual experiences with the platform? We know Steam's recommendation algorithm is absolutely awful (but sounds like they are working on it!), so If there really were 1000 new pieces of trash burying 1 good game, people front pages and the new releases page should be completely unbearable right?

Well... it's not. Looking through it now and while there are many games I have zero interest in (like Hakoniwa Explorer Plus), absolutely nothing stands out as absolute garbage like the stuff Jim Sterling talks about. Maybe the completely unfiltered list of everything could have one or two, but nobody should be doing that any more than they shouldn't be looking through everything new on Amazon or the Google Play store.

Oh, except Jim Sterling. That's what he does. Because finding these games is a great source of video content for him.

The problem really lies in that Steam just has absolutely no idea what to recommend to people, and the discovery tools it has simply aren't good enough. Steam250 and the like are better for discovery than Steam itself is... and that's sad.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,830
Omni
If 1000 are good we're in heaven period. Who fucking cares. :P

Point is, as demonstrated by the title I just shown. You're not going to find 1000 good ones in a day, let alone a year that are new. But you will find 1000 new pieces of trash that are probably burying the one good one.

No one in 2018 is gonna search a list of games to see what they want to buy, they are gonna know what to buy ahead of time.

I mean you don’t go to amazon or a store and look for what games you can buy, you go to the stores knowing what you want to buy.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,565
Then why do the better ones stand out in the New and Popular section ?
Which indie dev actually said what you're claiming ?




They dont. Devs get to produce steam keys for no fee, which is the reason why other stores can exist. That's how bad Valve operate in in the industry.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I only check the new games on steam section every once in a while because there's so much crap on there. I mainly get indie games when they are bundled.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,149
Maybe I'm in the minority but I only check the new games on steam section every once in a while because there's so much crap on there. I mainly get indie games when they are bundled.


Good luck finding crap in the "New and Popular" section, which is the section you get before even being able to check the "All New Releases" which, as its name says, is an unfiltered category.
 
Dec 5, 2017
1,695
People complaint about Nintendo cherry picking their indies (which they do) and sometimes in the same breath, they complaint about how Valve does not pick cherries or berries or turds at all... then people say that Valve needs to do hand picked curation to improve the store front.

...So...

People want Valve to Cherry Pick more like nintendo?

I ask because, well, for one, it does sound like that. And second... that would also lead to a potential problem of the past where small studios and indie creators can't get in even though their products are good.

Sure, you can argue that Valve just needs to curate on quality, not necessarily on marketability or content... but then you are one step away from Censorship. And there will be the occasional misstep. When Nintendo tells you no, some developers get pissy about it, some rightfuly so, others not. We have documented stories of that... when Valve says no, Jim Sterling gets a video built around "But what about THIS then Valve?" and... what does that help?

Steam store is flooded with garbage, there is absolutely no mistaking that. And if a game breaks the law, in any capacity (and i would include Asset flipping onto that) it should get taken down. But there is also personal curation to be done y'know?

Stores are allowed to sell shitty brands of stuff, and most do. They are cheaper, often with a heavy discount and you never heard of that brand or company before... but there they are, a shelf away from the good products that cost more and you know where they came from. If the product is not illegal, it should be there. If it's offensive but does not violate any laws, it should be allowed to be there. Games are also artistic expression and freedom of speech. Some use it for good, others are really goddamn stupid like Agony or Active Shooter or Hatred... they are still allowed to exist, you just don't have to give them any money or recognition.

Let us be reminded that we have a very specific category of games being made these days that are well know as "Youtube Bait" . Games entirely design with the purpose of having a shelf life of about a month or so (a bit more if it goes viral) where a few hundred (maybe even thousand) creators will make videos on it for hundreds of thousands ( sometimes even millions ) of mass consumers to see "That shitty game" or "That crazy crap". Make no mistake, a video on a really bad game gathers more attention (thus clicks, thus money) than a "Good Indie games you might have missed" monthly compilation video.

Many content creators are looking for the next crazy viral shit to fake react or overeact to and make Theory videos of or scream at a face cam or point and laugh faking frustration towards or fart jokes at for 10-15 minutes.... so it was only natural that there would be a Market to consume that content. Specially since that leads to fans of those creators trying to emulate their idols, which will of course, lend it self to a few hundred kids buying that shitty 1 dollar game cause it's 90% off and their favorite youtuber made them laugh with it...

And guess what? Jim Sterling is well aware of this. Because bashing on Valve and this system is his Hot topic button and he is going to slam that button because that's what pays his bills. I don't doubt he does care and he does want good talented indie studios creating and getting recognition for their hard work. I 100% believe that. However, i also really truly believe he is quite glad to bait every single asset flipper in his way until someone is dumb enough to sue him so he can destroy them and collect a paycheck on top of the smoldering corpse he baited in.
 
Oct 25, 2017
260
Bern, Switzerland
Indie devs have literally said that their biggest impediment to success is the deluge of quality titles that they are directly in competition with.

e:
sauce
"Too much competition from LOW quality games" is right behind "Too much competition from HIGH quality games" in this list, so while competition from high quality games is indeed considered the bigger problem by most devs, competition from low quality games is still a problem.
 

fade

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
895
Maybe Youtube can start banning content that glorifies/gives more attention to shitty offensive cash grabs on steam.
 

Dr Wily

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,112
"Too much competition from LOW quality games" is right behind "Too much competition from HIGH quality games" in this list, so while competition from high quality games is indeed considered the bigger problem by most devs, competition from low quality games is still a problem.
And less of a problem than there being too many good games, so on a purely objective basis we should tackle the bigger problem first.
Who wants to lead the brigade demanding fewer good games?

e:
Or rather should I say "who wants to consciously brigade against too many good games available" because demands for hand picked curation are also demands for fewer quality titles.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
5,565
Good luck finding crap in the "New and Popular" section, which is the section you get before even being able to check the "All New Releases" which, as its name says, is an unfiltered category.
I mean that tab only shows 10 games. If I'm not interested in them am I not supposed to check all the new releases.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,294
The Internet
So, as someone who has used the Steam Discovery queue a lot, I can say that I don't have this problem. If I see a game I don't like I click on the 'Not Interested' option. If I see a genre I don't like I add it to the list and low and behold I no longer have those games 'clogging up' the discovery queue or even the New Release section. There's a lot to give Valve shit for (and people do), but this isn't one of them. To say they endorse shit games and in classic Jim Sterling fashion 'AIDS SIMULATOR' (SHOCK SHOCK SHOCK DILDO JOKE) is misguided.

As I see it Valve can't win on this one, if they start to heavily curate the Storefront people will complain that Valve are pushing certain games over others. Devs complaining about too much 'low effort' games on Steam need to release that it's not just low effort games that are causing low sales. It'll be a mix of not building up interest and awareness before launch, launching at the wrong price point, launching at the wrong time, and thinking that Steam is the only store front to release on. The indie market has exploded over the last five years, and it's not just low effort asset flips you're competing against -- it's each other. It's the niche genre you've aimed for. Yet, I guess it's far easier to blame it on big bad Valve.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,824
It wasn't a matter of if Jim Sterling was going to talk about Valve opening the floodgates to allow anything into their service, but a matter of when. Something to which that you can argue he chose wisely to showcase that with "Valve's greatest newest move" comes situations like this. Quality Control is definitely the one thing that the service has been lacking as of late, and it only leaves many to scratch their head if Mass Shooting Simulator actually did anything to wake them up. We'll see what happens, but I feel like Mr Sterling is going to have plenty of other examples to share that he would call "Valve Endorsed."
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
Maybe I'm in the minority but I only check the new games on steam section every once in a while because there's so much crap on there. I mainly get indie games when they are bundled.
If you want curation on Steam, you can follow one or more curators. It's all there, but for some reason many people refuse to use it and keep talking about the existence of games they don't care for.
 
Oct 31, 2017
1,003
Isn't it funny that you rely on Valve to control what you can buy or not in an open platform anyway? If anyone can publish anything made anyway, why would people need Steam? Just to process payments? GOG is a good example, and I wish there were more smaller platforms instead of just a big one like Steam. This whole overload of lazy games would not be a problem if there was actual competition between storefronts.

Oh well.
How in the world did you come to the conclusion that I'm beholden exclusively to Valve?

"If anyone can publish anything made anyway, why would people need Steam?"
- Are you serious with this question? Why go to a grocery store when you can buy directly from the farmer ...? Not going to waste my time even bothering with that one.
 

cosmicblizzard

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
I don't agree with comparing physical storefronts like grocery stores to digital or online storefronts. This is the Amazon approach where there's either unlimited space because it exists purely as a line of code or there's massive warehouses with stuff to ship out. If grocery stores had some kind of pocket dimension with unlimited space, you can bet your ass they'd sell any random junk if the owners thought it could maximize profits.