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Jim Sterling's Death Stranding "Jimpressions"

Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,490
Cologne, Germany
funny how people take negative opinions on this game-especially from Sterling who has a very hit or miss taste when it comes to games-as confirmation that it sucks without playing it themselves. games need to be played to judge them, not watched or read about.

meanwhile, people in the OT playing the game are having a blast, myself included. one of the strangest, freshest and most mysterious game experiences in a long time. this is experimental stuff on a AAA budget and it rocks, the market needs more games of this caliber and not retreats to old ideas and concepts.
 

Sylmaron

Member
Oct 28, 2017
961
funny how people take negative opinions on this game-especially from Sterling who has a very hit or miss taste when it comes to games-as confirmation that it sucks without playing it themselves. games need to be played to judge them, not watched or read about.

meanwhile, people in the OT playing the game are having a blast, myself included. one of the strangest, freshest and most mysterious game experiences in a long time. this is experimental stuff on a AAA budget and it rocks, the market needs more games of this caliber and not retreats to old ideas and concepts.
Absolutely this.
 

Manfred

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,269
Geneva, Switzerland
Jim Sterling is coherent with his editorial line, the most important thing for a critic because that's where is his reliability.

And while I am loving the game, it's also normal to warn people of its specificities.

The problem isn't dissensions about this game but the absence of it on many others.
 

LuisGarcia

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
3,407
I’d hoped it wouldn’t need a /s considering the ludicrous nature of it and suggesting we delete Dota 2, but appreciate there are actually takes in the thread at that level lol.
Sorry! Everything since Death Stranding was announced has been so ludicrous it's hard to know what is serious!
 

Cecil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,393
That was a good video, with good arguments as to why he didn't like it. It was never a day 1 game for me, and I think this video made me drop the little interest I still had in the game, since it doesn't look enjoyable to play at all. Kojima's games have never really been for me, and if the game has all these kinds of systems that can get in your way if you don't enjoy them, then I think I would bounce of the game very quickly.

The price is not an issue for me though. I wouldn't be more interesed in the game if it was suddenly on a massive sale. It would still be a time investment, that the game doesn't really seem to be worth.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
5,571
Every OT thread has people "having a blast". Even the Fallout 76 thread on day one had people enjoying themselves.

Or what I like to call Phantom Menace Syndrome.
 

Majora85

Member
Nov 21, 2017
483
funny how people take negative opinions on this game-especially from Sterling who has a very hit or miss taste when it comes to games-as confirmation that it sucks without playing it themselves. games need to be played to judge them, not watched or read about.

meanwhile, people in the OT playing the game are having a blast, myself included. one of the strangest, freshest and most mysterious game experiences in a long time. this is experimental stuff on a AAA budget and it rocks, the market needs more games of this caliber and not retreats to old ideas and concepts.
Opinions in the OT are a sample of people who read the reviews, read about all the fetch quests and layers of micromanagement and still thought it sounded like something they would enjoy. Those people who dislike even the sound of all that most likely simply didn't even buy it to begin with, so citing positivity in the OT doesn't mean an awful lot.

OTs nearly always have a bias to positivity because people don't tend to buy things they don't think they'll enjoy and Death Stranding moreso than most games is incredibly divisive at a base concept level.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,156
I get this sounds more antagonistic than it is, and have already started posted in the DS OT as it is (so again, its not a troll!!)- but as much as people shouldn’t hate on such ‘Experimental AAA’ experiences sight unseen nor should we be so quick to say it never happens otherwise. What do you call Nintendos last three generation?

Between that thread and the positive Pokemon one, it’s been refreshing to hear people actually enjoying what they are playing.

Unfortunately I have fallen into the trap of watching some Youtube content of this game and now it’s a minefield of all manner of crap trying to algorithm the hell out of it.

In short this game finally being released reminds me of when the first iphone or ipad launched, we can finally begin talking about it in a meaningful way.
 

Boddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,154
funny how people take negative opinions on this game-especially from Sterling who has a very hit or miss taste when it comes to games-as confirmation that it sucks without playing it themselves. games need to be played to judge them, not watched or read about.

meanwhile, people in the OT playing the game are having a blast, myself included. one of the strangest, freshest and most mysterious game experiences in a long time. this is experimental stuff on a AAA budget and it rocks, the market needs more games of this caliber and not retreats to old ideas and concepts.
Welcome to almost every OT. They are a bad metric to tell if a game is good or not.
 

Starlatine

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,545
funny how people take negative opinions on this game-especially from Sterling who has a very hit or miss taste when it comes to games-as confirmation that it sucks without playing it themselves. games need to be played to judge them, not watched or read about.

meanwhile, people in the OT playing the game are having a blast, myself included. one of the strangest, freshest and most mysterious game experiences in a long time. this is experimental stuff on a AAA budget and it rocks, the market needs more games of this caliber and not retreats to old ideas and concepts.
oh shuckles the biggest fans of a certain game are saying its good! all the critics are wrong
i hope you finished cracldown 3. the OT for it was also glowing.

also "people need to play everything before forming an opinion" is an entitled and stupid argument. if you have more money than sense i'm glad that you're doing well financially but not everyone else is like this.
 

Snakeeee

Member
Jan 20, 2019
2,464
Opinions in the OT are a sample of people who read the reviews, read about all the fetch quests and layers of micromanagement and still thought it sounded like something they would enjoy. Those people who dislike even the sound of all that most likely simply didn't even buy it to begin with, so citing positivity in the OT doesn't mean an awful lot.

OTs nearly always have a bias to positivity because people don't tend to buy things they don't think they'll enjoy and Death Stranding moreso than most games is incredibly divisive at a base concept level.
There is almost no micromanagent at all, where did you heard layers of it?
 

DrDeckard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,387
My issue with this games story, and I don’t want to share it in the op because peeps are genuinely loving the game. Which is great. the main story thread 45 minutes into the game is mentioned so many times and is the same push 40 hours in.

connection....I’ll be waiting for you on the beach.....

saying that, I’m so happy this game exists and there’s some stuff I genuinely enjoy from it. I’m just happy people are enjoying it and get to enjoy it.
 

LuisGarcia

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
3,407
Every OT thread has people "having a blast". Even the Fallout 76 thread on day one had people enjoying themselves.

Or what I like to call Phantom Menace Syndrome.
That's just false. I looked in the Fallout 76 thread on release and people were hating it.

RDR2 has people turning on it about an hour after release.

Death Stranding has been out for a full day now ( some people have done like 15 hours) and the OT is nearly all extremely positive.
 

Cecil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,393
funny how people take negative opinions on this game-especially from Sterling who has a very hit or miss taste when it comes to games-as confirmation that it sucks without playing it themselves. games need to be played to judge them, not watched or read about.

meanwhile, people in the OT playing the game are having a blast, myself included. one of the strangest, freshest and most mysterious game experiences in a long time. this is experimental stuff on a AAA budget and it rocks, the market needs more games of this caliber and not retreats to old ideas and concepts.
There's nothing funny or weird about that.

If you're sceptical about the game, a well argued impression like Jim's here, can be something to lean on, when you're making a purchasing decision. You cannot spend $60 on every new release on your platforms, and you cannot play every game.

It's not a case about "Jim didn't like it, so I know that I don't like it either". But rather then that the things he talks about, and shows in the game, are things you're pretty sure that you don't like yourself.

Maybe some people who don't buy and play it, actually would have liked it, if they had bought it? Sure. But that's the case with every game, ever.

Jim even starts the video with saying that he likes and applauds that Kojima and his team did exactly the game they wanted to make, with little to no concern about how the market would receive it. But that alone doesn't entitle them to everyone buying a copy of the game just for the sake of it.

I like experimental games as much as anyone, but I buy those of them that appeal to me, not everyone. I'm not a charity.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,308
referring the OT because "well people are positive there" does ring a bit dishonest - the game had reviews out a week before release, lots of impressiosn, gameplay- those who likely wouldnt enjoy this type of game simply didn't buy it.

I mean, even the Breakpoint OT has a lot of positivity in it and that's one of the worst releases of the year. People knew what they were getting and they're enjoying that.

and with this I'm not implying Jim is right and that Death Stranding is bad (I'm planning to buy it either for cheaper on PS4 or just wait when it comes on PC), but judging a game's reception by the OT alone, especially at around release, doesn't neccessereily paint a realistic picture.
 

Claven

Game Localization
Verified
Aug 22, 2018
3,156
I think the video is being pretty fair towards the game. He says he didn't enjoy it, but admits he can see how a lot of people would. That's fine.

Just one small issue, though - when he talks about how the horse in RDR2 keeps crashing into the trees, I feel like we've played different games. In my time with RDR2 (which must be close to 350 hours now), it has literally never happened to me. Idk what he was doing, playing it like Forza Horizon or something?
 

Snakeeee

Member
Jan 20, 2019
2,464
I think the video is being pretty fair towards the game. He says he didn't enjoy it, but admits he can see how a lot of people would. That's fine.

Just one small issue, though - when he talks about how the horse in RDR2 keeps crashing into the trees, I feel like we've played different games. In my time with RDR2 (which must be close to 350 hours now), it has literally never happened to me. Idk what he was doing, playing it like Forza Horizon or something?
It happen all the time to me on the ps4, the game takes the horse control from you at high speed
 

Minilla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,619
Tokyo
My issue with this games story, and I don’t want to share it in the op because peeps are genuinely loving the game. Which is great. the main story thread 45 minutes into the game is mentioned so many times and is the same push 40 hours in.

connection....I’ll be waiting for you on the beach.....

saying that, I’m so happy this game exists and there’s some stuff I genuinely enjoy from it. I’m just happy people are enjoying it and get to enjoy it.
So your 40 hours in? Your post makes little sense
 

Claven

Game Localization
Verified
Aug 22, 2018
3,156
It happen all the time to me on the ps4, the game takes the horse control from you at high speed
Hmmm, I really don't understand this, played on both ps4 and Xbox, rode the fastest horse in the game (the white Arabian) most of the time, it literally never happened to me. The only time I crashed into anything was when a guy on a cart rammed me during a scripted chase once.
 

Champion

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,048
Tampa, FL
'We're having fun in the OT'....y'all sound so lame.
His review sounds on point. I think gamers miss the point of gams some times. They’re supposed to be fun based on your inputs. The game can be the most boring, garbage ever with the worst gameplay ever conceded and have an amazing story. It would still be a terrible game.

People have been very vocal on how they hate fetch quests, this comes along and is fetch quest the game.
What someone considers fun or enjoyable is subjective. So with that being said, people who are enjoying the game and individuals who it doesn't appeal to getting upset and in their feelings because of the other side is just ridiculous.
 

Snakeeee

Member
Jan 20, 2019
2,464
Hmmm, I really don't understand this, played on both ps4 and Xbox, rode the fastest horse in the game (the white Arabian) most of the time, it literally never happened to me. The only time I crashed into anything was when a guy on a cart rammed me during a scripted chase once.
It happen to me of road
 

Castamere

Member
Oct 26, 2017
890
Main story is 35 hours at max
Most of that is running around though. I'd be fine with a 20 hour game with 16 hours of exploring and management and 4 hours of story. It sounds like a 35 hour game with 4 hours of story and 31 of fetch quests.

I was 100% down for what the game was until I found out it's gonna run 50 hours. I was anticipating 35 hours for everything, including collectibles, and Im not wanting to pay 60$ for something that won't hold me until the end. It'll probably look better on PS5 anyway.
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,538
That's just false. I looked in the Fallout 76 thread on release and people were hating it.

RDR2 has people turning on it about an hour after release.

Death Stranding has been out for a full day now ( some people have done like 15 hours) and the OT is nearly all extremely positive.
Obviously RDR2 people would turn on it. Every impression and review was making it sound like the newest GTA experience, which wasn't the case for them.

Thus, more people bought it and didn't have their expectations matched.

If anything, it's good that DS has divisive, yet super informative reviews, since it means people who had qualms with the premise, story or gameplay will just avoid it altogether and not participate in toxic discourse.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,151
Ummm yep. Constantly upgrading inventory space and managing a limited size for different weapon types and armour types.

It felt pretty fiddly when I played it
Outside of just picking up better weapons/shields you basically just collect hundreds of sparkling things and never have to worry about it. Upgrading your inventory size once or twice in the whole game is not really management or even necessary.
 

Lobster Roll

Member
Sep 24, 2019
618
Chicago, IL
I was thinking about this as well, but then

- I'd take out degrading shoes, because it sucks
- I'd take out the encumbrance system, because people hated this since TES
- I'd take out degradation through rain, because bleh
- I'd take out carry limits for ladders or ropes or whatever so I can traverse in peace
- I'd make my grenades stronger since all fights are basically endurance runs on how long you can throw those things and how many you produced beforehand
- I'd make the baby not goddamn scream all the time
- I'd try to remove general time sinks, limiting systems and inventory management stuff, as ppl do in most games.

Now, what actual game is left there? Just pressing up to go from A to B to C and back to A again?

I feel this game is trying to make all these degradement systems, encumbrance and inconvenience scales the actual game (which is why I won't play it I guess), so I'm not sure if removing these would actually make the game itself better, or just more boring.
Couldn’t agree more. I’m a big gameplay > everything else person, and when I see videos and impressions where all you do is go from Point A to Point B for a fetch quest, I don’t see the appeal. The other systems that are painted on top of that (boot degradation, crying baby, Norman Reedus stumbling, etc) are just annoyances to distract from the fact that you are doing nothing else in the game than moving parcels. When you strip away the systems designed to eat your time and energy, you’re left with (literally) a walking simulator. Oh I apologize, a walking simulator that is occasionally a slow, awkward motorcycle simulator.
 

NeoBob688

Member
Oct 27, 2017
513
This year has seen more legit video game criticism leveled at overly bloated and overindulgent games. A good trend from my perspective. No ill will against Death Stranding and I might still get it.
 

Footos22

Member
Oct 25, 2017
967
Cheers for the impressions, Jim. This one is staying in the shrink wrap and being traded towards Last of Us Part II. It's hard to believe so much money and time has been piled into something so painfully dull just to satisfy Kojima's random impulses of excess.
Thanks for supporting this type of game I guess
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,505
Man I'm out this thread when people are comparing Crackdown 3 and Breakpoint to DS now and that's straight up ignoring how much higher the game has scored across review outlets. I'm 15 hours in and the game has been a fun unique experience. Not GOTY material for me but a pretty good game.

I can definitely see Jim not liking the game. He already had enough trouble with BoTW when DS kind of pulls back the exploration and makes the durability/traversal a lot heavier gameplay focus which I remember him hating.
 

Vengeance

Member
Jan 11, 2018
2,466
Man I'm out this thread when people are comparing Crackdown 3 and Breakpoint to DS now and that's straight up ignoring how much higher the game has scored across review outlets. I'm 15 hours in and the game has been a fun unique experience. Not GOTY material for me but a pretty good game.

I can definitely see Jim not liking the game. He already had enough trouble with BoTW when DS kind of pulls back the exploration and makes the durability/traversal a lot heavier gameplay focus which I remember him hating.
Nobody was doing a 1:1 comparison. They were just saying that positivity in OTs aren't a good indicator of how good a game is and people just used those games as an example. They're not wrong either. OTs almost always have positive vibes the first few days (unless it's a technical mess) because it's the honeymoon phase.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,177
Couldn’t agree more. I’m a big gameplay > everything else person, and when I see videos and impressions where all you do is go from Point A to Point B for a fetch quest, I don’t see the appeal. The other systems that are painted on top of that (boot degradation, crying baby, Norman Reedus stumbling, etc) are just annoyances to distract from the fact that you are doing nothing else in the game than moving parcels. When you strip away the systems designed to eat your time and energy, you’re left with (literally) a walking simulator. Oh I apologize, a walking simulator that is occasionally a slow, awkward motorcycle simulator.
This is not true and you know it. But it seems like you already decided to not play the game.
 

Faiz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,796
Jim: this is what the game does and is, and that’s fine some people like that but here I’m going to tell you why I don’t *tells you exactly why he doesnt*

People who disagree: *freakout*.
 

Mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,912
funny how people take negative opinions on this game-especially from Sterling who has a very hit or miss taste when it comes to games-as confirmation that it sucks without playing it themselves. games need to be played to judge them, not watched or read about.

meanwhile, people in the OT playing the game are having a blast, myself included. one of the strangest, freshest and most mysterious game experiences in a long time. this is experimental stuff on a AAA budget and it rocks, the market needs more games of this caliber and not retreats to old ideas and concepts.
Yeah knowing Jim's tastes this is definitely the kind of game he wouldn't enjoy. And there's nothing wrong with that, I definitely get why people wouldn't like this game. I'm enjoying it myself though.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,154
Jim: this is what the game does and is, and that’s fine some people like that but here I’m going to tell you why I don’t *tells you exactly why he doesnt*

People who disagree: *freakout*.
Except that’s not how this thread has been at all? Like a big chunk of people who disagree have stated as such, acknowledged that the game isn’t suited for everyone’s tastes, and that it makes sense that Jim would bounce off given what he does and doesn’t like. Jim himself pretty much says the same thing in his video

The weird freakouts are the posts going (in sum and substance) I knew this was terrible, people who say they’re liking this are just being defensive and always making caveats, see they’re always trying to justify why they like it so that’s evidence why it’s bad
 

DrDeckard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,387
This is not true and you know it. But it seems like you already decided to not play the game.
What is not true about it. I mean sure you can build objects to help others...but if you want to see the game to the end you literally walk or ride from one hologram to another delivering parcels...that's the game.
 

newmoneytrash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,994
Melbourne, Australia
I'm liking the game a lot and I'm 16 hours in but I don't think dull is too harsh a description. The world is interesting, but the moment to moment story beats are pretty dull. Especially after it starts so strong.

It has peaks and valleys for sure, but I think dull is pretty fair

What is not true about it. I mean sure you can build objects to help others...but if you want to see the game to the end you literally walk or ride from one hologram to another delivering parcels...that's the game.
yeah it's just fetch quests and unlocking towers essentially with some social mechanics in between

it's not a bad thing, and it does those things really well and makes them interesting imo, but that's what it is. i don't know why people are defensive about it
 

Aaron D.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,233
I thought the impressions video was just fine. He even went to great lengths to acknowledge and praise the game's strengths in spite of them not resonating with him personally. That's a courtesy very few indulge in on the press side and virtually non-existent on message boards where everything is either god-tier or utter dog s**t.

Quite early on in the video I did get the impression that Jim doesn't seem to be into systems-heavy gameplay design. Things he mentioned getting in the way of the fun, making the gameplay loop monotonous and dull. I mean there's entire genres completely dedicated to this hyper-detailed nuance (vehicle sims, sports management, colony & business mgmt., etc.).

I guess what I'm curious about is what is Jim's history with systems-heavy games. Even taking out the niche genres like vehicle sims, what about the more popular stuff? I think he did a video on Monster Hunter World, didn't he? What did he have to say about that? That game has a lot of pre-hunt planning & prep, doesn't it?

In the end, as someone mentioned above, virtually all the things he railed against are things I absolutely adore in the indie & AA-niche space. Super-complex, layer upon layers of systems (think RimWorld, Crusader Kings, Factorio) along with the mundane loops, which I prefer to think of as Zen, as found in day-job sims like Euro Truck and Farming Simulator.

I'd never begrudge Jim his personal tastes. In fact, he seems pretty self-aware of what does and doesn't work for him. And sports the maturity to recognize talent even when it doesn't speak to him personally, a quality I wish I saw more of online in enthusiast circles.

I personally cannot wait for Stranding to drop on PC, but it's not lost on me in the least how divisive the game is. Esp. when the AAA budget, marketing & Kojima pedigree will be drawing eyes from all sectors that might normally never give the AA/niche titles mentioned above a second glance.

Great video all told. Tough but fair. A justifiable warning to those who might share his sensibilities.