That shit was super racist even by the cavalier comedy standards of the late 90's / early 2000's. I couldn't believe what I was watching at the time.Just like the garbage Ms. Swan character on MadTV.
Jimmy Fallon Apologizes for Blackface Skit
- Thread starter Colin Robinson
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From what i understand they were making fun of blackface itself rather than making fun of black people.
With that said,, I'm not sure that makes it acceptable or not.
reverse racism is the worst racism of allWe finally got you, Eddie.
I had no idea what it actually was. As an immigrant I knew it was about a foreigner but I couldn’t tell if she was supposed to be Asian or not. At first I thought it was maybe some sort of nuanced racial take on “it’s Pat” and it was asking the viewer to turn a mirror on themselves to ask what they do in ambiguity. But then she did food stuff and it was “eh no it’s just Benny Hill sophistication levels of racism.”
I will say that when I first moved to the States, Balki and Groundskeeper Wullie were huge — yet nobody had any empathy for how oppressed they made me feel as a native born Scotsman with a lot of family from Mypos.
Almost as funny as when Twitter acted SHOCKED when they found out John Wayne was racist 2 years ago. Meanwhile that was the most known thing ever.
The Ms. Swan character was based on Bjork from Iceland.
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Is he wearing darkening makeup at all though?
Google Darryl Hammond Jesse Jackson, this happened all the time on SNL. Things that used to fly don't anymore.
I don’t think wearing a wig and doing an impersonation of a specific person is blackface, is it?
Yes he is.
He is wearing makeup to look darker.
Watch Saturday Night Live Highlight: Weekend Update Segment - Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton - NBC.com
Watch Saturday Night Live highlight 'Weekend Update Segment - Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton' on NBC.com
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you can think it’s not funny but it’s unambiguously designed to raise the problematic nature of blackface and goes to tremendous effort to not simply let it be about a surface level sight gag. Same with Tropic Thunder. Are they successful? Are they offensive? That’s up to you — but the intent is extremely clear almost to a fault.
something like Soul Man is exploitative and just broken from the outset and not helped in execution. C Thomas Howell basically became Seeya Thomas Howell shortly thereafter.
it’s absolutely important to keep in the discourse and comedy is one of our most successful tools for dealing with politics and social tension. Arguably even bad attempts push the dialog forward simply by failing to stick the landing and forcing us to talk about why.
the end answer may well be “actually we shouldn’t do it at all and there’s no value and only harm” but you need to make a strong case for that to think about censorship or suffocating the conversation in the first place.
The other layer here is important- the intent of this revival and revisionism. I absolutely guarantee you that if Robert Downey Jr went on Twitter today and harshly criticized Trump or demanded that the next Iron Man be female or black- the following day Tropic Thunder would be trending in extremely predictable ways and places.
Just like the garbage Ms. Swan character on MadTV.
Alex Borstein Accused of Saying N-word and More Racist Comments
Aries Spears accuses Family Guy actress Alex Borstein of using the n-word and making other racism comments. This is from an interview with The Breakfast Club...
www.youtube.com
off topic but god damn eddie murphy does not get the respect he deserves as one of the GOATsWe finally got you, Eddie.
OP
OP
Seeing the still of that video immediately brought to my memory Tropic Thunder, which I saw for the first time about 5 years ago.
I was younger and less conscious of the world around me, but I don’t remember that causing much backlash. Can anyone help to explain why?
The furor around blackface has always seemed... unpredictable? Inconsistent?
I was younger and less conscious of the world around me, but I don’t remember that causing much backlash. Can anyone help to explain why?
The furor around blackface has always seemed... unpredictable? Inconsistent?
I think when blackface is used to make fun of the person wearing it, and in-universe they are derided and called out, then people are more likely to be OK with it. Like the character you mentioned in Tropic Thunder, or Jenna wearing blackface on 30 Rock, or Mac on Always Sunny doing blackface for Lethal Weapon V.
Caveat this with saying I don’t think it’s ever really appropriate, just trying to answer.
I agree 100% and I feel that Always Sunny & Tropic Thunder did it in a correct way, it's just that as a white person I didn't want to make any definitive statement about what is and isn't acceptable when it comes to blackface.
Jamie Foxx covered this topic on Joe Rogan in July 2017. Check this out.
Jamie Foxx on Robert Downey Jr. Doing Blackface - Joe Rogan
Jamie Foxx talks about backlash from jokes he did on Jimmy Fallon, and why people accepted Robert Downey Jr. doing blackface in Tropic Thunder.Taken from Joe...
www.youtube.com
Also, Joe Rogan brought this issue up to RDJ in January of this year and here is what was said:
Could You Make Tropic Thunder Today? w/Robert Downey Jr. | Joe Rogan
Taken from JRE #1411 w/Robert Downey Jr :https://youtu.be/d5XTDmm0KUQ
www.youtube.com
Yeah I can see it in the video, in the photo it didn't look too different than his Sean Connery.Yes he is.
He is wearing makeup to look darker.
Watch Saturday Night Live Highlight: Weekend Update Segment - Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton - NBC.com
Watch Saturday Night Live highlight 'Weekend Update Segment - Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton' on NBC.comwww.nbc.com
The annoying thing is it's not even necessary. Keep the wig, speech, and mannerisms and have Tina introduce him as Jesse Jackson and nobody would even notice if he wasn't wearing the makeup, it certainly wouldn't hurt the sketch.
These are awesome answers, thank you both so much! I'll check those videos shortly :)Jamie Foxx covered this topic on Joe Rogan in July 2017. Check this out.
Jamie Foxx on Robert Downey Jr. Doing Blackface - Joe Rogan
Jamie Foxx talks about backlash from jokes he did on Jimmy Fallon, and why people accepted Robert Downey Jr. doing blackface in Tropic Thunder.Taken from Joe...
Also, Joe Rogan brought this issue up to RDJ in January of this year and here is what was said:
Could You Make Tropic Thunder Today? w/Robert Downey Jr. | Joe Rogan
Taken from JRE #1411 w/Robert Downey Jr :https://youtu.be/d5XTDmm0KUQ
Tropic Thunder was a parody. The movie mocked RDJ's character for it; it was meant to both mock the actors who would wear black face and Hollywood for hiring a white actor for a black role versus hiring a black actor.
They claim Ms Swan's ethnicity was meant to be unclear. Since her whole act is sh'e lies all the time we never really know. Although her working in a nail salon and her speech heavily implies she's Asain.Just like the garbage Ms. Swan character on MadTV.
It's embarrassing that Kimmel dug his heels in and defended this instead of just apologizing like Fallon did.
Did you mean Greece? I think Mypos was fictional?
My step-grandmother was from Crete, her kids with her original husband still lived scattered across Greece at the time. She hated that character, lol. Wouldn't let us watch the show if we were staying with her.
Creatively, she's supposed to be based off Bjork.
Personally from Alex Borstein's perspective, she's supposed to be based off of her Hungarian grandma.
In canon, she's from a made-up place called Kouvaria which is near the North Pole.
In reality, the portrayal is all over the damn place. I still don't know where she's from but Mark Hamill played her father in one episode lmao
The media's known about it and reported on it plenty of times already. It's 20 years old. I'm all for social justice, but he doesn't have to apologize to every single person who rediscovers this.
This happened 20 years ago when social climate was vastly different than it is now. I'm sure he regrets doing it, as he has said when he's recognized and apologized for this already in the past. There's nothing to gain from bringing this up now.
Why not? I personally have no qualms about famous people with tons of money having to continuously apologize for their past racist behavior.
Would you want to apologize for something you did twenty years ago over and over again?
Jimmy’s not even a bad person. Like he’s a genuinely solid dude. If he was a piece of shit then sure, whatever, but Jimmy isn’t.
I was only kidding about my Myposian family! The Scotland part is true. My other favorite random fake European countries are "Moldavia" from Dynasty - and "Jabrovia" - Billy Connolly's pretend European equivalent of Outer Mongolia. But could be the birthplace of Jabronis.
Just like the garbage Ms. Swan character on MadTV.
I was looking at these skits a few weeks ago and going "Wow these are fucked up" there's even one where they make an offensive comment towards LGBT community in one of those skits. Yeah that shit definitely wouldnt fly today. People pretend progress isn't made, but it really is. In 20 years we have gotten better with this stuff, even if it isn't perfect.
I agree that people probably just wanted drama, but I dont feel like his apology is insincere. It stands out that he didn't even mention that he has apologized for this before. That would have been an easy thing to do here... But he doesn't even go there. He just flat out apologizes and admits it was wrong with no reference whatsoever to "I've already done this, leave me alone". Its minor, but I appreciate it.
How do you know he is a solid dude? Because he projects himself as a ‘nice guy?’
And yeah, if I did something as racist as black face, I should be apologizing for that every time it comes up.
It was 20 years ago for starters. Not that it makes it ok but things were very different back then.
Yeah, my confusion with Ms. Swan was that I knew she was supposed to be a spoof of Bjork but the nail salon career and accent made it seem like she was supposed to be an asian woman.
Ms Swan is a weird one because I know a lot of family members who found her sketches funny and they legit did not make the asian connection at the time.
this makes so much sense. Her, Stuart and the UPS guy were my favorite reoccurring characters.
As a child I was like "is she asian",which was a bad look for me. Then sometime last year I watched a few with my girlfriend at the time and her friend (both asian american) who thought the same and at the end we were all confused about who Ms. Swan was really.
I was probably one of the biggest fans of that era of MADtv. I dropped out when half the cast left over the span of two or three seasons. When it was just Michael McDonald left, I was done. The show became just as good as SNL (read: medicore to plain bad with a topping of crud.)
Now, I'm going off memory here, so bear with me – Ms.
was a classic character. Everyone quoted her. She's up there with Stewie, Madden, the mannequin, too many to name! I really don't think they intended for her to be a racist gag. I think that would be undervaluing the comedy in the skits which were mostly physical when it came to her. Like Stinkles said, she's mainly ambiguous like Pat was. But I would argue it's a fine line.It doesn't look too good today tho, and it probably all comes down to her voice. I know they could've done her better. She actually came back for a skit in the MADtv reboot (yeah wtf). I should check that out again.
Sorry for the rant.
Edit* oh my God that Breakfast Club Alex Borstein snippet is not good at all. They called her an all out racist. I will take Breakfast Club's thoughts on her to heart and just...good-bye sweet childhood.
And just saw your post lupinko my bad, wasn't handwaving, didn't know she was racist IRL which puts a horrible spin on the character now. I don't follow Borstein just know her two famous roles and her works as a voice actress.
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Thanks for linking that. I’m not sorry but I know what Asian racist stereotypes look like and claiming otherwise is bullshit. I’m disgusted by this handwaving, I’m out of this thread.Alex Borstein Accused of Saying N-word and More Racist Comments
Aries Spears accuses Family Guy actress Alex Borstein of using the n-word and making other racism comments. This is from an interview with The Breakfast Club...
It's not bullshit. It's reality.
No one is saying it wasn't wrong because it was in 2000. It was always wrong. But being from 20 years ago absolutely changes the context because we as a society were much more okay with it then.
10 years ago, it was much more "acceptable" to call something "gay" or "retarded." It was just as wrong then as it is now but that isn't how society as a whole viewed it then.
food stuff and nail salon was what made me think that. I’m checking out the breakfast club thing now
Edit. WHOA
Well I´m not worried about context just because it happened 20 yeas ago and some happen to buy Jimmy Fallon´s act. It was 20 years ago not 200 and this is not the only thing he has fucked up over.
As society do you mean white people? Cause that's pretty much the only group you're going to find that was like "yeah it's fine to do black face"
Anyway, people don't get to run away from their past because it was a long time ago. These dudes can apologize about this shit til the end of time as far as I'm concerned. Consider it an inconvenience in the grand scheme of their fame.