1. MHWilliams

    MHWilliams
    Member

    I'm gonna tap out. I offered an informed opinion on the game itself, but folks is gonna folks. Enjoy.
     
  2. Fury451

    Fury451
    Member

    An incredibly sensible post by someone who's clearly spend time with the game.

    I'm sorry it will likely be ignored because it will require someone with a hate-on for this game to actually acknowledge that their vitriol is possibly incorrect.
     
  3. Sheepinator

    Sheepinator
    Member

    Gamers do benefit. Prices haven't gone up since early 2006. In the same time period, inflation is up 27%, movie tickets have gone up 42%, and Disney raises their theme park fees about 5% each year. In other industries, when costs go up, they get passed on to all consumers. In games, we have optional MTX instead. You can't eat your cake and still have it too. Ubi would surely be losing money without MTX (source: last years earnings report), and then you'd have no games at all and thousands of developers would be out of their jobs. But hey, you'd have no MTX, so win?
     
  4. StormEagle

    StormEagle
    Member

    So you do agree that prices have not been static in the past decade+ and indeed have gone up for AAA games to compensate for increased costs? So stagnating prices are not an argument for micro transactions being necessary in those games?
    [​IMG]
    If his patreon is any indication, then there are a lot of people that seem very entertained by it.
    And as he has said many times, he will stop putting out the same videos when the industry stops pulling the same scams.
     
  5. NoMoreTrolls

    NoMoreTrolls
    Member

    This is the only way to stay sane lol

    But definitely put me down as team nontroversy, 14 hours in.
     
  6. Crossing Eden

    Crossing Eden
    Member

    Honestly the idea that Ubisoft of all devs have an inefficient development pipeline is one of the most transparently armchair dev things posted on this forum considering their output and post launch support for their titles.

    Static in the sense that the base price is still typically $60. However, the strategy of firing and forgetting a title a title isn't very feasible in this day and age.
     
  7. Branduil

    Branduil
    Banned Member

    Whether or not the mtx are necessary is irrelevant to their immorality. If they were necessary, it would obviously be immoral since they are designing predatory practices into their game. But if they are unnecessary, it is also immoral because it is preying upon easily manipulated people and bilking them for cash unnecessarily.
     
  8. SG-17

    SG-17
    Community Resettler Member OP

    Maybe they shouldn't have thousand person teams making gigantic games with gigantic budgets if they need to use immoral monetization practices to make ends meet.

    I guess ethical capitalism is too taboo to talk about.
     
  9. Loudninja

    Loudninja
    Member

    Look they could have made all this time saver garbage free or part of the game like a mode but they did not does not tell you everything you need to know?
     
  10. Pata Hikari

    Pata Hikari
    Member

    And Jim Sterling's analysis isn't?

    Oh wait Sterling's dares to criticize instead of apologize for Ubisoft's scummy actions.
     
  11. Vargavinter

    Vargavinter
    Member

    I didn't recall that it was such a outcry when "Tales of Vesperia" sold ingame gold, levels and skill upgrades in the store of you wanted a shortcut? And who knows if the remake will keep on selling the exact same items when it releases? But if it does, the internet will break. Or is it more acceptable in a "Tales" game? Just a thought
     
  12. Wonderment

    Wonderment
    Moderator

    Stop with the oversized text. Thank you.
     
  13. Mr. Phellps

    Mr. Phellps
    Member

    I have explained why I think they're similar, though, and you have done nothing to dispute my claim.
    As far as amiibos are concerned, if they affect gameplay on a way that bypasses activities other players would normally have to do, they play the same role as AC's exp boost. They literally give you loot you would normally have to explore to get or loot you wouldn't get through normal gameplay at all. It's not hard to see.
     
  14. Vishmarx

    Vishmarx
    Banned Member

    I dont have a lot left to say in this matter that i didnt in the last thread but has it been considered that some review copies had some kind of xp booster turned on by default?

    If im not mistaken, in origins the prices for the mtx store items were halfed for reviewers. Reviewers almost always get the most expensive edition which does have a pack of boosters iirc.
     
  15. Branduil

    Branduil
    Banned Member

    If in-game currency can be bought with real money, it's scummy. If not, then it's part of the game design and it can be argued if it works well or not.
     
  16. Saitama

    Saitama
    Member

    Something is up. I swear it's taking me a long ass time to go from level 8 to 9 by trying to explore and do side quest and shit. In Origins I remember making it to level 20 rather fast.
     
  17. Pelican

    Pelican
    Member

    If Ubisoft really wants people to get frustrated and buy the xp booster, they should probably nerf Bounties and Contracts. I do dislike the use of MTX here, and understand some of the complaints from people wishing for a...faster open world experience.

    For those with the game short on time wishing to continue the main story after hitting a wall, ignore everything in the world of side content but bounties and contracts. Contracts should always be picked up no matter what. Passive big XP for doing all sorts of things you'd be doing anyway. Bounties are generally high paying assassinations. After collecting contracts at all message boards I casually came across, I had one glorious moment where I blew from mid 24 right through 25 into 26 from one big cluster of pirates, sparta, and athenian ships.

    I am so glad the highest value quests in this game are related to assassinating, killing, and just generally going on big murder sprees. I'll never touch another "Walk 200 feet to hand some guy this necklace for me" quest again.
     
  18. Toa Axis

    Toa Axis
    Member

    I really, really do not get the sentiment that Odyssey is “grindy”.

    If you wish to begrudge microtransactions, I am absolutely with you. I do not want to see them in my games, if possible.

    HOWEVER

    I am 17 hours into the game, and never once have I felt like progression in terms of leveling has been too slow. For the record, I was one who felt like Origins could be pretty stingy on XP gains outside of the main story. Unlike that game, however, Odyssey gives you good XP for most of the things you do in the world. Undertaking side quests, bounties, contracts, clearing forts, etc. Things move along at a very good pace, and with every activity in the game world giving you decent XP gains (especially things like Conquest Battles - the triggering of which are entirely manipulated by the player), I am very pleased with the progression curve in the game.

    I’m all for criticism, but this narrative about the game being grindy has been very off-base in my experience.

    (As an aside, the game utilizes level scaling, so an XP boost might not even matter that much, since you are always encountering things that are challenging. At worst, it would make you over-leveled for everything.)
     
  19. I'm not apologizing for the inclusion of microtransactions.

    I'm just pushing back on the erroneous narrative that an xp booster allows you to skip large parts of the game and that you can buy your way into the best build. The game is fundamentally not designed that way.

    The game requires that you engage with the content. Whether you actually find that content engaging is down to individual preference.
     
  20. Polioliolio

    Polioliolio
    Member

    So you're pro all this shit? I guess I don't play mainstream games these days, so when I see his stuff, I'm utterly appalled at the crap they get away with.

    Jim Sterling is gaming's Consumer Reports, with some dildo waving and whatnot. It's disconcerting how people pile up on the guy who is pro consumer rights, pro worker's rights. Stunning. He's one of the few people talking about it too, so it's as though any voice in opposition gets the defense force riled up.
     
  21. Tezu

    Tezu
    Member

    Because the game isn't grindy and people who are complaining didn't buy the game, apperently have no idea how a RPG works and/or just want to hate ubi.

    Yes, MTX are a big no-no, I get it, we all do. The XP boost maybe shouldn't be there, but the leveling speed wasn't developed with the boost in mind

    Again, my average time per level is 45 minutes. How the fuck is this grindy I have no fucking idea. Not once in 15 hours I had to stop doing main quests because I was underleveled.

    Also, about the legendary "drama" , the game throws legendaries at you like candy. Even if you buy a set from the store, after you level, and unless you upgrade it, it gets weak after a while.

    And for last but not least, the "you can't one shot with stealth kills anymore". That was true for Origins, they actually fixed that with odyssey. If you invest your points on the assassin tree you can actually do some critical stealth kills that one shot 95% of the enemies in this game. And I think it's possible to one shot everything if you get gear with +assassin damage.
     
  22. Sheepinator

    Sheepinator
    Member

    You should re-read my post. Here, to save you the trouble of looking for it:

    Gamers do benefit. Prices haven't gone up since early 2006. In the same time period, inflation is up 27%, movie tickets have gone up 42%, and Disney raises their theme park fees about 5% each year. In other industries, when costs go up, they get passed on to all consumers. In games, we have optional MTX instead. You can't eat your cake and still have it too. Ubi would surely be losing money without MTX (source: last years earnings report), and then you'd have no games at all and thousands of developers would be out of their jobs. But hey, you'd have no MTX, so win?
     
  23. R_thanatos

    R_thanatos
    Member

    Your claim ? You're claiming that Creed odissey is similar in structure to breath of the wild . I said nothing of the sort .
    Heck i never said if i agree or not with this. I only said ( to another poster ) that breath of the wild doesn't have an option to speed the progression like creed odissey has.
    And then you came up with the fact that amibo exist and i already answered that i believe that it is NOT the same thing since the progression is different since there is little to nothing in BOTW that is mandatory to reach the end. i HAVE ALREADY SAID THIS if you want the post numbers where i have stated this , i will provide them to you.

    Yeah , figures i've done nothing i've answered you each time and you want to keep me talking about Botw for some reason. In my opinion , they are different games. You're moving the goal with amibo as if getting items behind amibo ( something that i personnaly don't like either ) is the same thing as a xp booster active for the remainder of your game. No getting items is not the same as an xp boost that affect progression entirely. it is not hard to see.

    You're desesperate to talk about BOTW when i don't want to, i don't need to. This is not my argument . If you want to argue the similarities between creed and botw , then do it yourself.
     
  24. Crossing Eden

    Crossing Eden
    Member

    It would be a HUGE controversy if they were to adjust the game balance for reviews and then change said game balance with an in-game patch in order to incentivize MTs after the store went live. Very few devs in this industry are stupid enough to do something so fundamentally easy to catch.
     
  25. Pata Hikari

    Pata Hikari
    Member

    Well that's nice but that has nothing to do with what people are actually arguing.

    The game has been made grindier to encourage the player to buy the EXP Booster to reach level gates faster. That one player in this thread posted that they're around 10 levels below the next plot quest shows exactly the sort of thing that this EXP booster is meant to tempt you to buying.
     
  26. Crossing Eden

    Crossing Eden
    Member

    Citation needed.
     
  27. Dr. Caroll

    Dr. Caroll
    Member

    EA tried this with Battlefront II, I believe, and there was very justified outrage over it.
     
  28. Pata Hikari

    Pata Hikari
    Member

    Well if you read the rest of my post.

    Also the fact that an EXP booster is in the game at all is all the evidence anybody needs to know that Ubisoft made the game grindier.
     
  29. Karak

    Karak
    Member

    Well technically we just disagree on overall how grindy it feels. So, I mean it happens lol
     
  30. AM_LIGHT

    AM_LIGHT
    Member

    Good to know ' i enjoyed the sidecontents in origins so level gating wasn't a problem , looks like it's the same here.
     
  31. Crossing Eden

    Crossing Eden
    Member

    This is fundamentally flawed logic. What's your retort to the fact that legendary weapons are buyable in the in-game store yet have a higher drop rate in general compared to Origins? Did they lower the drop rate for good loot too because you can buy legendary loot?

    Exactly. The reason BF2 was such a noticeable case in the industry is because it was one of the few mainstream games that had a hugely fundamentally flawed MT system that messed with the play experience of the game.
     
  32. Pata Hikari

    Pata Hikari
    Member

    No it isn't.

    Ubisoft put an EXP booster for sale.

    Ubisoft wants people to buy the EXP booster. How do you make people want to buy an EXP booster? By using a level curve that makes you have to gain more and more levels just to progress instead of a more natural pace. So people are tempted to buy the Booster in order to get to the next main story quest faster.

    And what a surprise there's at least once instance of a nearly 10 level gap between what level a player was at just playing the game and what they needed to gain in order to progress.
     
  33. Crossing Eden

    Crossing Eden
    Member

    Yes it is. Answer the following question:

    [​IMG]

    If you're going to imply that design is fundamentally changed due to the option to buy things you can't half ass it, you have to go all the way as such a blanket statement obviously would apply to other things you can buy.
     
  34. Vishmarx

    Vishmarx
    Banned Member

    Well i can confirm the origins bit is real. And origins didnt have xp boosters. About this one...who knows.
     
  35. Elven_Star

    Elven_Star
    Member

    What happened here?
     
  36. Pata Hikari

    Pata Hikari
    Member

    Pay money to not have to deal with RNG. Done.
     
  37. I was just about to reply to a post from someone but felt it will be a waste of time to do since it is hard to argue with some people even if some of our opinions are valid.
     
  38. Sheepinator

    Sheepinator
    Member

    Next you'll be saying the fact that cheese exists means the burger must be crap.
     
  39. Crossing Eden

    Crossing Eden
    Member

    Origins did have exp boosters you could buy with ubi points. Also, really don't recall any articles or talking about the MTs being halved pre-release. Have a source?

    RNG? The game has custom made mercenaries, (the ones who hunt you and have the best loot in the game and a consistent drop rate for legendary loot especially in the endgame), more so than randomly generated ones. The quests also have a set exp amount. Where's the RNG?
    [​IMG]
     
  40. Vicious17

    Vicious17
    Banned Member

    Eden, I like that you're trying and all, but at some point you gotta realize that arguing with walls never turned out well for anyone. These people are never going to play the game out of "principle" and will regurgitate shit they've heard someone say on the internet because that person said it loudest.
     
  41. Zhukov

    Zhukov
    Member

    Man, I'd be annoyed if this kind of thing showed up in a game that actually mattered.

    Makes me kinda glad I find Ubisoft games to be thoroughly forgettable time wasters at best.
     
  42. Where is this coming from?

    I'm 40 hrs in. There's no RNG
     
  43. Pata Hikari

    Pata Hikari
    Member

    This is such a hilariously nonsensical comparison I'm desperately trying to parse what you're saying by this.

    Is crappy DLC the cheese in this situation? So are you saying that a game without DLC is just a plain hamburger?

    Are you saying that DLC is a good thing?
     
  44. I wouldn't bother with this. They've got the narrative they want, and nothing will change that.
     
  45. Waddle Dee

    Waddle Dee
    Member

    Make the games smaller in scale. Have slightly less detail to the environments. Only implement mechanics that feel necessary. Not every game needs to be "everything". Lots of the best games are extremely focused titles that know what they want to be and excel at it. It's the difference between beloved classics like Resident Evil 4, Banjo-Kazooie, Sonic the Hedgehog 2, and disappointing titles like Mass Effect 3, Assassin's Creed Unity, Final Fantasy XV, etc.
     
  46. Riversands

    Riversands
    Member

    Is it possible that it is grindy due to higher difficulty setting? How bout the normal difficulty setting?
     
  47. Pata Hikari

    Pata Hikari
    Member

    I'm sorry but Crossing Eden said that "Legendary items" have a "drop rate" so presumably getting them is up to RNG.

    Or you can buy them from the store.

    If they don't randomly drop then I don't know what they're talking about.
    And what narrative do I want?
     
  48. kaishek

    kaishek
    Member

    '
    fair enough

    top notch channel btw, best reviewer on the tube
     
  49. Pata Hikari

    Pata Hikari
    Member

     
  50. Crossing Eden

    Crossing Eden
    Member

    Yes it's quite difficult to argue when an argument falls apart.

    Again, regardless of whether or not they're custom OR randomly generated,
    THE GAME INCLUDES BOTH
    you get great loot from either or. It's fundamentally interchangeable. So what RNG are you talking about?