Jimquisition: Single-Player Healthcare

[Irminsul]

Jim Sterling talks about how the death of the single player game has been right in front of us since at least 2008. And it still didn't happen.

I especially like his points that the gaming community all too eagerly agreed with lamenting the death of the single player game in a year that has seen several of the best ones ever created as well as calling out the silly idea that just because other forms of games became more popular, surely that must mean single player games are on their way out.

 

[Deleted member 249]

I have queued this to watch it, but I will most certainly agree with him. Rumors of the death of single player gaming have been greatly exaggerated and remain untrue.

 

[LV-426]

Love Jim's videos. Will watch later but he most likely will be on point as usual.

 

[Deleted member 1413]

Seems like a topic most people have pointed out.
But, yeah, single player games aren't going away forever anytime soon.
You'll likely see less of them going forward, but I think you'll sell less of AAA in general going forward

 

[Monogatari]

Will watch on my lunch break.

One thing I will say is that our type of gamer ( the type that browses Reset, obsesses about development cycles, sales figures etc. ) still spend a huge amount of money. It may not be a "growing" market as much as the GAAS/mainstream stuff, but the money from our demographic isn't going to disappear.

Especially with Nintendo, Platinum/Square and Atlus hitting it out of the ballpark this year with mid-tier production values that are 4 of the best games ever made.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Will watch on my lunch break.

One thing I will say is that our type of gamer ( the type that browses Reset, obsesses about development cycles, sales figures etc. ) still spend a huge amount of money. It may not be a "growing" market as much as the GAAS/mainstream stuff, but the money from our demographic isn't going to disappear.

Especially with Nintendo, Platinum/Square and Atlus hitting it out of the ballpark this year with mid-tier production values that are 4 of the best games ever made.

Click to shrink...

Zelda, FF XV and Mario mid tier production values?

 

[ClickyCal']

Will watch on my lunch break.

One thing I will say is that our type of gamer ( the type that browses Reset, obsesses about development cycles, sales figures etc. ) still spend a huge amount of money. It may not be a "growing" market as much as the GAAS/mainstream stuff, but the money from our demographic isn't going to disappear.

Especially with Nintendo, Platinum/Square and Atlus hitting it out of the ballpark this year with mid-tier production values that are 4 of the best games ever made.

Click to shrink...

How many Nintendo games this year were mid budget? Definitely not Mario or zelda...or even splatoon 2. Maybe ARMS? Metroid was, but also was a 3ds game.

 

[Mezoly]

Will watch Jim later, but I'm basing this on the comments.

I don't want to be rude but are people being dense about this whole thing?

Linear single player games are absolutely dying, the 10 hour single player only game like quantum break or visceral star wars are not happening anymore unless your name is recognizable like God of War. Uncharted have multiplayer and open areas, Tomb Raider have hub areas. Gone are the day of Max Payne or Dead Space.

Now single player games in general? they are completely fine and are not dying and I don't think anybody in the industry said they are dying.

 

[Markitron]

I haven't seen it yet but it sounds like he has a positive outlook on the future of SP games, which is nice to hear.

 

[Monogatari]

[QUOTE

Zelda, FF XV and Mario mid tier production values?

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="yuoke, post: 593391, member: 7351"]How many Nintendo games this year were mid budget? Definitely not Mario or zelda...or even splatoon 2. Maybe ARMS? Metroid was, but also was a 3ds game.[/QUOTE]
I was referring to Nier.

What are the budgets of Zelda and Mario? It feels like they don't have to break the bank as much as the AAA photorealistic games.

 

[Deleted member 18379]

Great video. I just don't see how anyone can make the argument that single player games are dying without being disingenuous. I mean you have new comers like Lawbreakers and Evolve crashing and burning. While well known ip (SFV, Battlefront) recieve criticism for lack of single player content.

These online communities that everyone is chasing seem difficult to break in to and are fiercely loyal. That is a great thing to want as a game creator, but there are only so many multiplayer games that can have success like that.

The next big thing is usually what we never see coming. The idea that a company like EA is ever going to find it by chasing trends is laughable.

 

[Suzushiiro]

As long as demand for "proper" single-player experiences exists, someone will satisfy that demand. If the AAA industry wants to leave that money on the table, the AA/indie scene will snatch it up themselves.

I was referring to Nier.

What are the budgets of Zelda and Mario? It feels like they don't have to break the bank as much as the AAA photorealistic games.

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I would guess that Zelda and Mario probably had higher budgets than, say, Dark Souls, Nier, or Persona 5, but nowhere near Uncharted 4, Battlefront, or Assassin's Creed.

 

[Deleted member 14649]

One aspect that doesn't seem to be brought up in this discussions is the second hand market. Historically, single player only games, have been played, traded in and repeat ad nauseam, whereas people tend to keep hold of multi-player titles for longer. You can understand why that must also play a part in the move towards concentrating on MP.

 

[nightstalker962]

Man, I need to watch this, its not exactly single player games in general I'm worried about, its the linear ones that I'm afraid might become obsolete. Luckily Sony is funding a few.

 

[Patapuf]

Great video. I just don't see how anyone can make the argument that single player games are dying without being disingenuous. I mean you have new comers like Lawbreakers and Evolve crashing and burning. While well known ip (SFV, Battlefront) recieve criticism for lack of single player content.

These online communities that everyone is chasing seem difficult to break in to and are fiercely loyal. That is a great thing to want as a game creator, but there are only so many multiplayer games that can have success like that.

The next big thing is usually what we never see coming. The idea that a company like EA is ever going to find it by chasing trends is laughable.

Click to shrink...

It's a very specific kind of SP game that is "dying". That's the super high production value linear campaign. Unless it's tied to a popular MP they have become and will continue to be rare.

Indie and mid sized stuff will obviously keep getting made. Open world games are super popular. No one says SP games will not be be made anymore.

 

[Derrick01]

It was always a bit silly to say single player games are dead because of something EA did when all EA ever does is chase someone else's success whether it's god of war, WoW or destiny. That's not to say that the future of SP games is a bit murky in general in the AAA space, just that no one should ever use EA as an example of anything happening in the industry. They're the ultimate followers. As soon as someone manages to make a SP game that breaks out and sells millions they'll be the first ones crawling back trying to copy it.

 

[Deleted member 5593]

I can't watch the video right now, but I hope he makes a distinction between AAA single player only games vs mid tier single player games.

If he believes the AAA single player only type games will survive then I think he's dead wrong.

 

[AnimalFather]

i feel like every episode from jim is dedicated to how he predicted the future in a past episode.

its turning into quantity over quality.

 

[Ikaruga]

Single Player is going to stay, because people keep buying it. And I know, I will.

 

[SaintBowWow]

Will watch Jim later, but I'm basing this on the comments.

I don't want to be rude but are people being dense about this whole thing?

Linear single player games are absolutely dying, the 10 hour single player only game like quantum break or visceral star wars are not happening anymore unless your name is recognizable like God of War. Uncharted have multiplayer and open areas, Tomb Raider have hub areas. Gone are the day of Max Payne or Dead Space.

Now single player games in general? they are completely fine and are not dying and I don't think anybody in the industry said they are dying.

Click to shrink...

Agreed. I think a lot is being misconstrued in this discussion lately. Giant 40+ hour single player games like The Witcher 3 and GTA will do fine. 10 hour linear single player indies will still exist and will be fine.

Big budget 10 hour long linear cinematic shooters with no replay value aren't looking to hot right now though.

 

[More_Badass]

Will watch Jim later, but I'm basing this on the comments.

I don't want to be rude but are people being dense about this whole thing?

Linear single player games are absolutely dying, the 10 hour single player only game like quantum break or visceral star wars are not happening anymore unless your name is recognizable like God of War. Uncharted have multiplayer and open areas, Tomb Raider have hub areas. Gone are the day of Max Payne or Dead Space.

Now single player games in general? they are completely fine and are not dying and I don't think anybody in the industry said they are dying.

Click to shrink...

The linear single player only game has always been relatively rare though. Go through the lists of releases from the last decade or so, and most single player games have multiplayer, or co-op, or online features, or open world, and so on

Saying the "linear single player focused game" is dying implies that such games were common and thriving to begin with. They were, are, and will always be less common, sometimes more so, sometimes less so.

Big budget 10 hour long linear cinematic shooters with no replay value aren't looking to hot right now though.

Click to shrink...

How many of these can you list, from the last 5-10 years?

 

[mysteriousmage09]

Great episode as usual.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

What are the budgets of Zelda and Mario? It feels like they don't have to break the bank as much as the AAA photorealistic games.

Click to shrink...

Coming up with, implementing and polishing up to the wazoo all these ideas in Odyssey and Zelda might be more resource heavy than you think. Budget isn't only about high res textures.

 

[kyle mechlachlan]

Watching the video now. Jim talking shit about Syndicate 2012? That game ruled.

 

[Mezoly]

The linear single player only game has always been relatively rare though. Go through the lists of releases from the last decade or so, and most single player games have multiplayer, or co-op, or online features, or open world, and so on

Saying the "linear single player focused game" is dying implies that such games were common and thriving to begin with. They were, are, and will always be less common, sometimes more so, sometimes less so.


How many of these can you list, from the last 5-10 years?

Click to shrink...

You might be right and I'm looking through rose tinted glasses. I do believe the term linear became a dirty word last gen. Definitely interested to compare gens and see the output. I consider Platinum and Capcom output part of the linear single player games and those companies struggle might affected my perspective.

 

[Kthulhu]

Great video. As much as like to hear Jim call out BS, it's nice to have a more reassuring video every now and then.

Loved being reminded of all the awesome games that have come out this year too.

 

[oni-link]

Great video as usual

Does anyone know if Jim made it over here?

 

[Deleted member 1003]

Everything is dead. Great video and I love playing dead videogames.

 

[Dr. Ludwig]

Watching the video now. Jim talking shit about Syndicate 2012? That game ruled.

Click to shrink...

It was a legitimately cool shooter with fantastic gunplay & sound design. Such a shame about the reputation it got since release.

 

[kyle mechlachlan]

It was a legitimately cool shooter with fantastic gunplay & sound design. Such a shame about the reputation it got since release.

Click to shrink...

Hell yeah. And it's a Starbreeze joint. I wonder if some of the devs on that would have later left and are now at Machine Games.

 

[Monogatari]

You might be right and I'm looking through rose tinted glasses. I do believe the term linear became a dirty word last gen. Definitely interested to compare gens and see the output. I consider Platinum and Capcom output part of the linear single player games and those companies struggle might affected my perspective.

Click to shrink...

The term linear did become a dirty word last gen and rightfully so. Because there was a plethora of games that had no level design whatsoever. Just go straight, boring, banal, "rollercoaster/theme park" type experiences.

The most notorious being Final Fantasy XIII.

 

[maximumzero]

My god, that "LOOKING LIKE A TOTAL PRICK IS THE FUTURE" slide gives me life.

 

[Psittacus]

The term linear did become a dirty word last gen and rightfully so. Because there was a plethora of games that had no level design whatsoever. Just go straight, boring, banal, "rollercoaster/theme park" type experiences.

The most notorious being Final Fantasy XIII.

Click to shrink...

Linearity kind of got a bad rap, because it's a useful shorthand for that problem. As you say it's more specific kinds of linearity and lack of depth that were the problem, and it absolutely was a problem.

 

[Accoun]

Does anyone know if Jim made it over here?

Click to shrink...

He has. He posted in the Mario 7/10 """review""" thread, IIRC.

 

[Uno Venova]

This guy is so eloquent at tearing down most of the internets bullshit cyclical arguments.

 

[Kalentan]

The Sony VR comment is kind of weird. He basically says that they stopped supporting it when VR games have been coming in nice numbers and they just announced more at PGW... Not to mention we have Skyrim VR coming and the new updated Headset.

Other than that the video is good.

Also while I do think EA does take some of the blame. The video does oddly omit the fact that the Star Wars games was in trouble even without EA interference.

 

[Sander VF]

PSVR bit is straight up bizarre after we had a huge Sony conference where a good chunk of games were VR titles.

Other than that, a really good video.

 

[Soj]

Watching the video now. Jim talking shit about Syndicate 2012? That game ruled.

Click to shrink...

Seriously underappreciated game. The co-op mode is the best of it's kind.

 

[Aztechnology]

Could it not be argued, that the lamentation of the masses, about said single player, contributed to the reinvestment into single player? Because there were definitely some shaky times when it came to single player.

 

[regenhuber]

This guy is so eloquent at tearing down most of the internets bullshit cyclical arguments.

Click to shrink...

Well said.
The most recent "SP's are dead" hot takes were kicked off by:

1) EA closing a studio (happened before) that was known for SP experiences
2) A troubled Star Wars SP project getting canceled for numerous reasons

The hilarious part about ist: Those discussions took place days before Assassins Creed, Wolfenstein and Mario launched within 24 hours.

 

[Deleted member 5535]

Single player is never going to disappear. What EA and some companies means is that the 100 million or more SP are not going to be something just for it or with not so much of this style coming.

 

[Fiel]

what is name of the game at https://youtu.be/wUWkt5boXyE?t=5m3s ?

 

[ramoisdead]

what is name of the game at https://youtu.be/wUWkt5boXyE?t=5m3s ?

Click to shrink...

Alone in the Dark (2008 video game)

 

[Deleted member 6730]

Once again Jim fucking Sterling son is the voice of reason when it comes to this stuff.

 

[Lunaray]

First Jimquisition in quite a while that I agree with wholeheartedly.

 

[Sasliquid]

Just watched and obviously agree. It's all scaremongering to get the industry to move in a direction that is more easily monetiseable.

Hell my current top 3 games of the year are all single player focused; Horizon, Nioh and Persona 5 the last of which I was dissapointed Jim didn't mention.

 

[m_dorian]

Oh how i wish Jim is right.

Edit: Ef Ubi.

 

[Dr. Caroll]

Hell yeah. And it's a Starbreeze joint. I wonder if some of the devs on that would have later left and are now at Machine Games.

Click to shrink...

There was a gradual bleed from Starbreeze to Machinegames throughout development. Modern Starbreeze is a very different beast. Game was executive meddled out the ass by EA, but despite that I feel it's a genuinely good game that deserves way more love than it got. It oozes style. The acting is remarkably good. The soundtrack is ace. The gunplay is exquisite.

It goes without saying that Wolfenstein: TNO/TOB/TNC are blatantly modelled after Syndicate. Arguably moreso than Starbreeze's other titles. Kilo had this delightful physicality to him that very clearly carries over to The New Colossus in particular, which even bought back full body awareness and vent stomping.

I know this isn't exactly the thread for it, but in case anyone is looking to play or replay the game on PC, I recommend the DeBloom mod. http://www.moddb.com/mods/syndicate-debloom

The hilarious part about ist: Those discussions took place days before Assassins Creed, Wolfenstein and Mario launched within 24 hours.

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Wolfenstein, BTW, is getting thrashed by Call of Duty. On PC. With some exceptions, if you want to make a successful AAA game, it should have popular multiplayer or be open world.

 

[SeeingeyeDug]

One aspect that doesn't seem to be brought up in this discussions is the second hand market. Historically, single player only games, have been played, traded in and repeat ad nauseam, whereas people tend to keep hold of multi-player titles for longer. You can understand why that must also play a part in the move towards concentrating on MP.

Click to shrink...

That was another fearmongering idea that used games would destroy the industry. Yet we see recent reports about how digital sales are overtaking physical sales which eliminates the used market.

 

[Spider-Man]

This age old doom of single player games goes back all the way to Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament being online only.

This is back in pre-2000