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Joe Biden is the Hillary Clinton of 2020 – and it won't end well this time either [The Guardian]
- Thread starter Don Fluffles
- Start date
My mom, a die hard democrat, hates sanders with a passion. To the point she said she wouldn't vote if he was the candidate. She feels he is just as narcissist as trump and pretty much doing what trump did, just telling people what they want to hear so he gets praise. She has managed to convince me he would not be a good leader though. She points out when his supporters were acting out and hurting Hillary's chances after he lost he just said he had no control over what they did even if he claimed he wanted them to support Hilary. Rather than act like a leader and try to direct them into putting their energies sto defeating trump. It also makes me second guess my support of him that she is actually very good at reading personalities and predicitng how bad some one would be as a leader.
I'd still vote for sanders over trump, but she has convince me out of him being one of he ones I wouldn't mind seeing win. Not to mention I'm annoyed he is running again mainly cause I feel with all the bitterness his supporters had last time he is risking them being bitter all over again if he loses and hurting chances we get trump out. I just feel myself if he truly cared he'd stay out of it. Especially since he will play helpless if he loses and His supporters start helping the republicans damage the democrat who is running's image.
My mom is exactly the same. I wonder if this a thing for a lot older democrats out ther :/
You mean when he stumped for her countless times
You mean when a greater share of his supporters voters voted for Hillary in 2016 than Hillary' supporters did for Obama in 2008?
Ok cool so we are just going to ignore how much Bernie stumped for Hillary for a cute little annecsote about your mom? Gotcha.
A vast majority of Bernie supporters voted for Hillary. That is just nonsense.
A lot of them are scared of socialism because of decades of anti-socialist propaganda. A lot of the older black churchladies just don't trust him on racial issues.
This narrative falls flat when you're blatantly ignoring the immense difficult hoops of how Bernie got to that stage in the first place and his shrugging off his toxic supporters as though they were Hillary's responsibility to deal with. Had the candidates been reversed in these circumstances I don't think you'd have been ok with Hillary stumping for Bernie. Reactions like this are why people call out Bernie for having a cult of personality.
While giving him unlimited coverage.
And people wonder why Bernie supporters don't just run in and support the corporate funded nominee....
Hildawg scrapped and fought hard all throughout her campaign and did as good a job as she could to try to rebrand herself as more progressive (remember deplorables) then most would have expected. But it's hard to run against your decades of fuckups and the fact the GOP ran an anti-Hilary for prez campaign since Benghazi.
Biden isn't even trying a quarter as hard; he's dropped the ball with the Hill apology, keeps on making weird and millenial/gen x insulting 'by my bootstraps' speeches, and is a layover from an era where being a centrist was the goal "I like Cheney!". I trust a Kaisich GOP going rogue before Biden, he will get slaughtered when its debate time
Biden isn't even trying a quarter as hard; he's dropped the ball with the Hill apology, keeps on making weird and millenial/gen x insulting 'by my bootstraps' speeches, and is a layover from an era where being a centrist was the goal "I like Cheney!". I trust a Kaisich GOP going rogue before Biden, he will get slaughtered when its debate time
stumping for Hillary is the exact opposite of shrugging his supporters off.
And yes it is Hillary's responsibility to deal with them. Quite literally. She's the candidate and she has to earn people's votes. Many Bernie supporters had legitimate grievances with her and yet they still voted for her in larger numbers than Hillary supporters did for Obama in 2008 despite a much smaller rift in political ideology
You say this as though Hillary didn't have her own, all candidates have their asshole supporters. It's fair to have bones to pick with other candidates supporters, we all do that, but to let Trump win because you don't care about Bernie supporters do this is not having the moral high ground and it makes me worry we'll have a repeat when he thinks he's losing.
Thats the absolute least he could do and that was all he did.
I'm not saying it's not I'm disagreeing Hillary shouldn't have tried to appeal to them and she did, it's that Bernie can unleash those radicalised followers then once the genie's out of the bottle he goes
and it's all good.
Real leaders try to mend fences in those situations to focus on the bigger picture to the best of their ability, they don't do the minimum like Bernie.
Bernie's legit supporters are beside the point you know it, they have nothing to do with this. It's the assholes who terrorise and harass DNC employees and make hit lists to harass I have a problem with, so the question is - why don't you?
Imagine how many more voters he'd have gotten had he bothered trying to reach out to the psychos, instead it makes him look like he doesn't care. Bernie's lucky someone wasn't hurt, then what would have done?
We give Trump grief for not reigning in his asshole supporters why should Bernie get a pass for the same behaviour?
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Might help if he stopped calling himself socialist, since he isn't one. He's a social democrat.
A large part of why he has such strong support is because of his track record. He may not have reached the spotlight until now, but the work he's done for over 40 years is incredibly relevant. I disagree about his ideas "resonating in diluted form". They're resonating as they are. Certain portions of the Democratic party are the ones diluting it. For all this talk about how we need "fresh blood" and how older politicians are holding us back, people fail to recognize the voices that younger people are supporting. Bernie's often lumped in with Biden as needing to be pushed aside for spring cleaning. Bernie might be old in age, but he speaks for the younger generation.
About the obstruction, don't you think that will happen either way? Republicans are shitbags who toe the party line. I'd rather elect someone like Sanders who will call it like it is rather than waste time pandering to them.
GOP
GOP
"No matter how they choose to characterize themselves, you can bet whether it is Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, or somebody else, the nominee for president on the Democratic side is going to be on a path to try to turn America into a socialist country." -@SenateMajLdr
GOP
"No matter how they choose to characterize themselves, you can bet whether it is Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, or somebody else, the nominee for president on the Democratic side is going to be on a path to try to turn America into a socialist country." -@SenateMajLdr
Joe has a Herculean task ahead of him if he doesn't want to be called a socialist. Maybe it would be easier if he just switched party if he doesn't want to be called a socialist.
Happy Mother's Day to her! I don't disagree with anything she said.
They call Warren a socialist. By the 2020 general most old folks will believe Biden's a socialist due to Republican propaganda.
We need a progressive, we need real change, I 100% agree with this article and your assessment.
Yup. I swear older Republicans just don't want to spend any energy researching the propaganda they're being fed. They're happy to absorb whatever sound bytes Fox News churns out and let that become their dogma. It's terrifying, really. The worst thing is, this phenomenon seems to spreading to Democrats as well, which is why I actually admire Biden's no-nonsense approach.
Haven't numerous posters on here referred to Warren as a socialist?
...they're not (incorrectly) referring to themselves as such for easy media sound-bytes.
The way America and it's many systems are set up heavily favor conservativism so it's funny to hear people say doing X, Y, Z is moving too fast and that the correct approach is centrism (read: conservativism) with a sprinkling of what barely counts as even the foundations of a progressive measure
Prime example of how terrible of a candidate she was that her idea of being progressive was to throw an insult at a large group of voters. Whose votes did she think she would earn by spouting "deplorables"?
Except Bernie to Hilary voters were larger than Hilary to Obama voters so this is just revisionist history.
Well yeah, NYC and California wasn't going to vote for trump so of course she had millions more.
She was right tho; America doesn't like hearing its a racist piece of shit but it is. Trump's current approval rating proves that.
Id make an argument that the gaffe there was that she expected progressives to step up with those comments but instead they stayed home or voted for the racist (lol) . For the faux progressives at the end of the day they were armchair activists and knew they were protected either way, and for people looking for true progressive change she already accumulated all that bad will and was seen as someone conveniently catching up now( 'superpredators' decades earlier)
That comment actually won me over because it's like, Trump was literally doing white supremacist tapdancing on the news networks and everyone was like, 'Wow, he's campaigning out of the box! And he's funny! How fascinating!' and she was the only one calling out how problematic his followers were and currently are.
Trump isn't going to win, his base is shrinking and the people he is helping are not the people suffering.
The guy who's spent his 40 year career being an outcast and consistent in his "radical" ideas is telling people what they want to hear for praise?
Citation needed.
Does it really matter how good she is at reading personalities if she's supposedly been fed such a mischaracterization of the man?
Giant leaps here. Every candidate has their bitter supporters, and the data doesn't show that Sanders is unique in that respect. The rest of your logic falls apart after that.
This post is perfect example of the flimsy foundation a lot of the bitterness towards Sanders is built on.
Justice Democrats
@justicedems
Joe Biden: "If you go out and bundle $250K for me, all legal, and then you call me after I'm elected and say 'Joe, I'd like to talk to you about something.' I'm gonna say 'Come on in.' It's human nature."
@justicedems
Joe Biden: "If you go out and bundle $250K for me, all legal, and then you call me after I'm elected and say 'Joe, I'd like to talk to you about something.' I'm gonna say 'Come on in.' It's human nature."
This tweet has been debunked by Justice Democrats themselves. It's weird they kept it up.
Fuck Biden but let's stick to the facts.
This is why it is silly to equate Bernie and Biden because they are both old. This is the kind of old Bernie absolutely isn't.
It's almost like that criticism isn't leveled in good faith or by people who don't have a strong grasp on politics.
Almost all of this is complete nonsense. Like socialism not working when our most successful and popular programs are socialist programs and the other socialist programs that have been talked about poll really among conservatives let alone democrats. People didn't hate Hillary. She had 65 million votes and in a sane electoral system she is the president despite running such a terrible campaign. Biden will not lead to a blue wave. Its never happened to a democratic adminstration in at least 40 years where you gain more seats in the midterms. And Biden isn't the candidate that would happen with anyway. He's not a pogressive. He's a conservative (read corporatist) democrat. He's only progressive on social issues and even some of those you can question like that Anita HIll stuff. No one is going to rally to support Biden. You can walk and chew gum at the same time.You can do small stuff and work on big stuff at the same time. And part of the way to starting small is getting more social democrats elected which what has happened.
You don't have to be a "progressive" to beat trump. All you need to do is get a Democrat in the White House. It's like you guys want to take the most difficult path forward )
Has to meet all these requirements to be good enough. No, all you need is any old democrat in there.
"Your side cheated to beat us"
Lmao. You fucking lost by millions of votes fair and square. Give me a break.
I me
Ok, I supported Sanders last time. But I did note a lot of Sanders supporters acted a lot like Ron Paul supporters (a lot like, it was fucking embarassing. I didn't even know who Ron Paul was until his supporters and his supporters totally pissed me off). And I don't see all candidates having supporters like Bernie's or Ron Paul's. There is a marked difference (it's like they are a cult). hell... talking "out loud" about this I could easily say they act a lot like Trump supporters as well. Don't you dare attack their candidate! I don't see this in every candidate like you claim. Hillary supporters were nowhere near as oboxious nor Obama supporters or hell, even supporters of more moderate Republicans (When tehre was such thing).
And, well, being an outcast from a large moderate party doesn't mean you don't find a niche that you tell what they want to hear. Trump is talking to his niche, not everyone wants to hear what he says either. But there is a group that does that praises him for it.
Most likely not. I'd take four more years of Trump if it meant the DNC actually got their shit together in 2024.
Goddamnit, when can AOC run?
Is this the same polling data that showed Hilary beating trump by a landslide?
Or we could just... not give a single shit what Hannity and Fox News says about our candidates?
Attacking Trump is a good strategy for three reasons.
People who vote in the primaries are the most politically engaged voting blocks and most of those people will be more irritated with Trump than the gen pop.
If you attack Trump successfully to the point that he is talking about you more than other candidates then you are riding the wave of free advertising the Trump rage train brings.
When universal healthcare and addressing climate change (the top 2 concerns of Democrats) are generally agreed upon by most candidates you need a third or 4th platform to standout and for now only Warren and Biden are regularly attacking Trump so it helps make them more unique.
People who vote in the primaries are the most politically engaged voting blocks and most of those people will be more irritated with Trump than the gen pop.
If you attack Trump successfully to the point that he is talking about you more than other candidates then you are riding the wave of free advertising the Trump rage train brings.
When universal healthcare and addressing climate change (the top 2 concerns of Democrats) are generally agreed upon by most candidates you need a third or 4th platform to standout and for now only Warren and Biden are regularly attacking Trump so it helps make them more unique.