Hilary had a lot more hate from her years as the First Lady and just from being female. Harold Clinton would have beaten Trump soundly; that's how sexist the American electorate is.
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Joe Biden is the Hillary Clinton of 2020 – and it won't end well this time either [The Guardian]
- Thread starter Don Fluffles
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Hilary had a lot more hate from her years as the First Lady and just from being female. Harold Clinton would have beaten Trump soundly; that's how sexist the American electorate is.
Biden defending the corrupt system that Trump and the GOP love to protect. What a supporter of the resistance he is.
It would be great if we could consider this a hypothetical scenario in which he posing the scenario but considering the countless examples of Biden doing just this, its clearly a reactionary defense of the system and "how things are".
In the absolute best case scenario for him, is that something like this exposes him as a hypocrite, in the worst case, it shows he has absolutely no moral foundation on the issues necessary to our generation.
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Biden isn't the sole arbitrator of the Dem leadership/centrism, he's just the one to beat at the moment. They're not all like him, and can be reasoned with. "How things are" is not simply taken down to Biden, he's just a cog in this machine. "How things are" will always be a constant when the system itself remains untouched.
Except it's not that easy to accomplish and presents weaknesses when not done properly, as in giving the Dems a two front war when they need to be focused on the GOP since in that kind of situation the GOP will have a better shot at winning while the Dems are distracted and fractured. And the left have a long road ahead before they're ready to pose a real challenge to leadership.
The statements you are posing doesnt really change anything about what i'm saying. in that Biden is apart of the problem...and that those who defend the status quo of our broken system are by default part of the problem.
How hard it is goes without saying, but your solution is not a solution. "Dont critisize the democrats because it'll embolden the GOP" isnt a solution. If your going to say that, say that to the dem leadership who love to shit on and publicly humiliate the only people who give them any chance of being relevant thus enabling the right wing even more. You talk of a two pronged attack, but neoliberals and far right wing conservatives two prong attacking progressives somehow isnt even on the radar?
That whole thing with omar gave the GOP an entire out to start attacking others like Rashida talib on the basis of "antisemitism", and of course the first thing the Dem leadership did was go straight to AIPAC and begged for forgiveness throwing her under the bus. Start there if your going to criticize
I've tried to do so in the past and in the process been mischaracterized, bullied & personally attacked by some Sanders supporters for having a different opinion.
Case in point.
Indeed he is. That is not entirely true, and misses the point of breaking the status quo when you're focused on actually breaking the system they belong to. Biden's replaceable, you're not going to break the system by breaking him. He's a knight on the chess board when your issue is with the chess board itself.
You're not getting the nuance of what I was saying, I said
Burning down both houses only helps the GOP, do it right you get leadership and the coalition since without both the Dems become irrelevant on the national stage. Dem leadership has plenty of issues I dislike, but it's unwise to go about it with self destructive tactics. They can survive the fallout from those consequences, the left cannot. Don't give opponents in the Democratic party or the right the set up they need to humiliate your candidates. Know how they'll react and find methods to get the results you want without the backlash like that, unless you want to create martyrs.
Because your completely misreading why the Dems do things, as though there is no light between them. Disagreeing with progressives is not agreeing with the GOP. Most Dems don't care what the GOP think. Don't create enemies when you don't have to or you will end up with a two front war, this isn't it.
The GOP don't need any excuses to attack Tlaib and Omar, you're given them too much credit at being rational. Because of how the system is structured the leadership can't simply tell AIPAC to get lost, it's not that simple and you're ignoring not their response wasn't that blunt, either. Omar didn't get reprimanded, and the party was split over her - that's why she wasn't censured.
AIPAC is a tiny part of how the system maintains itself and what Omar did was shed necessarily light on them but she didn't hurt them. Nothing the left has done has hurt them or severed their relationship wth the Dems, which is a big problem. The left needs to get out of the mindset of being reporters who shine light on things and shift to being police who shut things down.
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No lies detected. Bullies don't want to admit to their own participation, just projection on to others.
Still waiting to hear why it's okay to support someone bad on queer issues but I'm somehow the problem when I don't do anything I'm accused of by them.
privatizing and means testing social security, border fencing and extremely fake fearmongering of drugs and crime from mexico. Sounds like a predecessor to Trump to me. The problem is that when you dont have a proper left wing resistance to a right wing narrative, you simply allow the right wing to encroach until there's nothing left
If people give Biden the nomination to run in 2020 they will be fools. However, he isn't Trump so I will have to vote for him for president.
You need to remove the chess pieces by force or persuasion before you can replace the board.
Even using your analogy, Biden and his ilk needs to be taken down before change can happen because he is only aiding putting chess pieces like himself on the board as replacements.
Think about why the leadership felt they had to do that? If the Dems had a bigger majority and didn't feel they were in danger of losing party members for an all out defense of Omar and Rashida they would do it.
There's the world we want, and the one we live in. Sadly the part has to live in the one where Trump is in office.
User Banned (Permanent): Troll account.
Your choice to make, but you don't have to. It is up to the dem primary voters to give us someone who isn't morally bankrupt, or they can enjoy another 4 years of Trump.
My family doesn't have such a privilege to allow Trump to stay for another 4 years if we can help it. Everyone is an immigrant in some fashion. None from places Trump seems to care about. Already had family from Venezuela that have been refused refugee status and deported back to that hell hole. I honestly doubt Biden would be as bad.
But again
Why do we have to already settle for Biden. He fucking sucks and we now know that somebody like him isn't the safe bet that we were all told would be the case in 2016.
That's not what he was saying though. He was saying he'd vote for Biden over Trump if he was the nominee. As everyone should.
But that also wasn't what the poster they were responding to was saying either. We are not in the position of having to hold our noses yet and vote for Biden because he's not the nominee. Right now, it already feels like people are trying to push the narrative that Biden is the ordained one and that we need to go ahead and sweep all the other candidates to the side and accept Biden as the nominee a whole year early. Which, fuck that.
So get ready for 4 more years of MAGA? Everyone will have a job but these tariffs are gonna kill us.
Yes it was. The poster he responded to explicitly argued for having Trump in office over voting for Biden, were he to become the nominee. Which is a very dumb and privileged thing to do.
What? I do not want Biden to win at all. However, if he becomes the nominee I would vote for him because Trump is literally a detriment to my family's well being.
Pretty sure they are saying that Biden is going to lose (he will), not that they are supporting Trump winning.
They're saying he doesn't have to vote for Biden if he is the nominee, as it would be the fault of Dem primary voters of not giving us someone else. So yes, he is very clearly signalling he at least would not vote for Biden over Trump, and blame it on others.
I hope people realize that all these clips "exposing" Biden are actually just more free publicity.
You can read it that way if you really are determined to, but the more simple read there is the obvious one of how Biden is a shitty enough candidate that he's going to not build up enough support to beat Trump (and he won't!). Not that the poster in question won't vote for him.
vote for biden if you want someone who really really wants to work with his good republican friends
No it's not. My read is the only reasonable one. He literally answered "You don't have to" to someone saying they'd vote for Biden over Trump.
We don't have to vote for Biden over Trump because we don't *have* to vote for Biden period. He's not the nominee at this juncture and we can make sure that nobody has to get into the shitty position of having to hold their nose for another weak centrist candidate to stop Trump by making sure he isn't the nominee. Telling people to sit down, shut up, and accept America's creepy groping uncle is horseshit.
The blame falls squarely on the shoulders of anyone pushing Biden as a candidate right now. He is explicitly worse than Hillary in every conceivable way. Hillary lost. To even think of Biden as a winning candidate now, when the primary hasn't even really begun, and we have several really good choices, is to be culpable in the re-election of Trump.
Your too naive. The dems do it because they are apart of a system in where American foreign policy is dictated by money and a power structure where weapons manufacturers and special interests with huge lobbying power trump voters. That is IT. That is the case with every lobbying group including the Israeli right wing governmental lobby. Enough with the goddamned weak excuses.
Back when there were democratic majorities and there was no Trump, people like Biden sucked up to Israel and said anyone who did so was a terrorist of Hamas just the same(and we have it on record). It has nothing to do with excuses like "oh b-b-but if they were just in a better position they would support human rights and people calling it out..! Please dont criticize them!"
Enough.
I don't know- a lot of people genuinely like Joe (yes, not so much on resetera). Did anyone really like Hillary all that much, other than she was the Democrat/not Trump? That shit matters.
But no one here is doing any of that. People are saying they don't want Biden, including the initial post that he responded to.
I agree he is way worse than Hillary. I don't want to see him win. But he is the front runner, for now. People saying they would vote for him in the GE is he did win the primary is no more than normal, and encouraging people to stay home if that undesirable scenario were to play out is to be culpable in Trump's reelection in a way more direct way.
a huge amount of biden's support seems to be people who are scared of voting for someone they like and have been convinced by the media and centrist democrats that they have to pick someone who's palatable to some imaginary white constituency
if we can convince the primary base that they don't have to elect a candidate who's just trump but slightly more palatable on all axes then we're fine, otherwise we're fucked
bludgeoning potential voters with the threat of republicans in power has never backfired horribly
Only if folks make that a self-fulfilling prophecy.
You consider that "bludgeoning"?
Wow.
No, because the people you are thinking are not going to show up for him in your self-fulfilling prophecy are going to largely show up for him like those same people still did for Hillary despite their similar reservations. Biden is going to lose because all the people he is going to focus his efforts on winning over at the cost of everything else won't show up for him like they didn't for Hillary.
Biden getting the nomination means Trump will win. I'm not interested in giving the democrats my vote and letting them know it was okay to put up Trump-lite. I'll either sit it out or vote for a random third party.
Ding ding ding. This is accurate so it's probably best if everyone ignores it.
I was responding to someone who said they wouldn't vote for him. Turnout is so low as it is that these sentiments matter. Biden is almost dead last on my list of possible candidates but I'll hold my nose and vote for him in the general if I have to.
Yeah, uh, that'll show 'em? Btw "Trump-lite" is a very bizarre characterization of Biden that's not based in reality.
yeah the handsy racist ancient gaffe-prone corporatist conservative white guy who's never apologized for anything and does nothing but lie to the working class about how much he'll do for them while raking in donations from rich people with diametrically opposed interests is nothing like trump
A lot of your list can apply to other candidates, such as Bernie Sanders.
And I'm going to keep asking this until I don't have to anymore: Why do we have to talk about holding our noses for Biden now? He's not the nominee. He doesn't have to be. We sure as shit have plenty of time to build up support for any one of the couple of candidates who are better than him and actually have a chance at beating Trump. Why does the narrative already have to be about people telling leftists to fall in line and be ready to hold their noses for Biden when leftists not turning out wasn't even the problem to begin with and when Biden is not the nominee?
Because that's the topic of this thread?
And you're right, he doesn't have to. I still think and hope he'll flame out during the debates but in the shitty case he doesn't, I'll do what I have to do to end this administration.
Re-read your list with Sanders in mind. It's not tricky.