• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Oct 26, 2017
17,381
Wow this guy sucks

Even my dad, who was a former staunch Republican and is currently in the Buttigieg camp, says he'd rather vote for Karl Marx over Trump
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,038
if some random dude on twitter is a bernie or buster folks are up in arms, but a democratic senator saying they'd rather vote for trump or sanders? eh, no big deal.

...

This is your take away from this thread ...? A thread created specifically to call out West virginia senator Joe Manchin for not getting behind Bernie Sanders 6 months before the first Democratic primary?

Because, like, y'know, it's the opposite of what you're saying. There's a ton of righteous vitriol being lobbed at Manchin for this comment, I think justified in some ways, but impractical in other ways. It's six months before the first Democratic primary, and West Virginia is a state that's going for Trump regardless of how Joe Manchin, a single vote, votes. Manchin holding his senate seat is waaaaaay more valuable than Manchin saying he'd vote for Sanders or not more than one year from the general election while Bernie Sanders sits in ~3rd place in the Democratic primary.

Still, I get why Bernie Sanders supporters are up in arms about it, of course they want the support of every Democratic senator and congressman, and anytime one of them doesn't endorse him, it's a cataclysmic event for them. Just like how a bunch of Republican senators and congressmen were apprehensive of backing Trump in 2015, I think if Sanders comes in, sweeps the primaries, and storms the general election like Trump did in 2016, you'd see candidates like Manchin either back off those comments or quietly endorse him for president without losing his support in his state. But until then, fat chance.
 
Last edited:

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
if some random dude on twitter is a bernie or buster folks are up in arms, but a democratic senator saying they'd rather vote for trump or sanders? eh, no big deal.
WV isn't a swing state. Someone saying that in Wisconsin or Michigan is a much bigger deal. The US is right leaning. The reality is that socialism doesn't sell everywhere here.
 

Deleted member 2620

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,491
if some random dude on twitter is a bernie or buster folks are up in arms, but a democratic senator saying they'd rather vote for trump or sanders? eh, no big deal.
this trump-supporting senator is good because of my nebulous concept of inevitability. please instead be upset at susan sarandon in two thousand and nineteen.
 

Madison

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,388
Lima, Peru
Manchin refused to vote for Obama in 2012, no way in hell he votes for Bernie (at least not publicly). I think half of it comes from actually think Trump isnt that bad while the other half is just political theatre.

Sinema is the biggest problem here. Her refusing to vote for Bernie or Warren would be a little too much to be considered political theatre I think, concerns about her purple state ish ness are beginning to surface.
 

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
1513302138824.jpg

this guys grift game is off the charts
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,248
Rochester, New York
If Liberals had their way, Democrats would have 40 senators, 1 Supreme Court justice and not held the presidency or House for 20 years.

But BY GOD they'd feel good about themselves. They got in that sweet sweet retweet, so it was worth it.
 

Big Baybee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,783
Why the hell are people still getting upset about Joe Manchin in 2019? You're choice in WV is a conservative Democrat or literal trash.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,038
Okay, so explain to me the practical thing that liberals can do about Manchin rather than sit and whine about him on social media.

Not freak out ~6 months before the first primary when the candidate Manchin's being interviewed about voting for a year+ from now is currently trailing in the polls by double-digits. That's one practical thing liberals can do.

Another practical thing is not to get baited by Fox News

(edit: I misinterpretted your post here, thought you were arguing to primary manchin in WV or promoted freaking out about him -- I quoted your post but my reply officially extends to THE OTHERS!)
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
Ah okay, so you are going to just whine on social media about a Senator and not offer any practical solution as to how to fix the problem

So... exactly what I said.

I don't use social media

was just pointing out something that made me scratch my head, that's all. usually trump support, hell even safe blue state 3rd party support, is met with ire. I guess there are exceptions after all, who'd have thunk
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Threads like this continue to show the hypocrisy of suggesting progressives fall in line for whoever the nom is but doesn't work the same way if the progressive candidate gets the nomination.
 
Oct 27, 2017
10,660
So offer some solutions to the "Manchin Problem"

Who do we run that will win in WV? Or do we just take the state as a loss and try to operate with one less senator?
If he thinks his re-election hinges on fucking over Democrats on a vote, or being a mouthpiece on Fox News he will. What's the difference? His vote as a minority in the senate only serves as help and messaging for the republicans.
 

Ionic

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,735
Manchin regarding the run up to his 2018 election:
"I just don't give a shit. Don't care if I get elected, don't care if I get defeated, how about that?"
"If they think because I'm up for election, that I can be wrangled into voting for shit that I don't like and can't explain, they're all crazy."
"I'm not scared of an election, let's put it that way. Elections do not bother me or scare me. I'm going to continue to do the same thing I've always done, extremely independent."
wvrecord.com

Manchin says he 'doesn't give a sh-t' about Morrisey's demand

CHARLESTON – West Virginia Attorney General Patrick Morrisey has asked U.S. Sen. Joe Manchin to resign from Minority Leader Chuck Schumer’s leadership team. Manchin’s response was blunt.

This isn't just political theater to calm the conservative voting base of the state so he can stay in power. I think he actually does just suck.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,141
Bernie isn't even a socialist. He's like, "socialism where needed". There are some institutions that are so corrupt and bullshit that at a certain point the only way to fix it is for the government to control it. Also, he needs to talk more about how Medicare is the most popular HC operation in the country.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,248
Rochester, New York
If he thinks his re-election hinges on fucking over Democrats on a vote, or being a mouthpiece on Fox News he will. What's the difference? His vote as a minority in the senate only serves as help and messaging for the republicans.
Joe Manchin pretty much never votes with Republicans unless the bill was already going to pass. That's very different from a Republican Senator.
 

Deleted member 8860

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,525
You work to change the hearts and minds of voters, but in the meantime you put up candidates that can actually win. Manchin is as far left as WV will currently elect.

Maybe things will be different in 2024.
 

Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
2,997
If Warren or Bernie were to get the nomination, I'm not sure how realistic it'd be to expect these senators to endorse them.

Manchin refused to vote for Obama in 2012, no way in hell he votes for Bernie (at least not publicly). I think half of it comes from actually think Trump isnt that bad while the other half is just political theatre.

Sinema is the biggest problem here. Her refusing to vote for Bernie or Warren would be a little too much to be considered political theatre I think, concerns about her purple state ish ness are beginning to surface.

Sinema's biggest issue isn't so much she wouldn't vote for Bernie or Warren. It's the fact she's already ruled out the possibility of nuking the legislative filibuster as long as she's around (essentially meaning Democratic legislation in the senate will remain a pipe dream even with a majority, no matter who gets in the White House) or her statements about wanting to restore the filibuster on administration appointments (which would force Trump's successor to staff their entire cabinet with "acting" members for the entire term) though the last one isn't that likely to fly.

Of course, if 2020 would be good enough for Dems to turn Arizona blue, there's a fair chance Sinema would change her mind.
 

OtherWorldly

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
2,857
Like it or not . There are many Joe Manchin like Democrats. Like 5-10% of democrats who actually vote who would not vote or vote someone else than warren or Bernie. Manchin and same kind folks would vote for Joe Biden.

it's all nice about progressive voting block driven but progressives aren't enough to win purple states or purple suburbs .

folks talk about democratic enthusiasm about a dem candidate. That doesn't matter when the primary driver to SWITCH votes is "not trump" independents. Most of whom won't vote for Bernie or warren but will vote for Biden not because of Biden but because of Trump

If you don't realize this and warren or Bernie are chosen, I have the I told you so thread ready on November 2020 when exit polls come out
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
Oh gosh jee, OP making more posts about winning back racists white people who literally flipped their shit over Obama to the point where the entire state went Red in 08 and never turned back.

I am absolutely stunned.

Manchin is in deep red country and only survives because he is a Republican with a D next to his name. When the time comes and he's needed he steps up, other than that he does what he needs to do in order to survive. That's the nature of holding a Senate seat in a state that flipped red a decade ago, especially one filled with white people with an economy that is dead.

Do we "want" Manchin to be some type of major critical vote? No, because he could easily become the next Joe Lieberman, but there really isn't an alternative to Manchin without just losing the seat forever.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Manchin sucks. I think there is some truth to the "he votes with us when it matters, he votes against when it would pass with GOP votes alone anyway" schtick, similar to how Susan Collins presents herself as a "moderate" Republican, but all the same, I don't want this guy dictating policy under the next Democratic president.

We only need to net three seats to tie the chamber (which, under a Democratic president or more specifically their Vice President would be as good as having the majority), but really should be gunning for four so Manchin can fuck off into the sunset rather than whittle down any legislation. In fact, make it five to compensate for Kyrsten Sinema.

This is the price you pay to have a Democratic senator in West Virginia

You want to retake the Senate, you need him
I'll get behind this, though. Yes, under a Democratic president a 50-50 Senate that includes Manchin is preferable to a 51-49 Senate still run by McConnell who will unilaterally block even the least controversial items from getting a vote as a means of sticking it to the new Dem administration. It'd hardly be ideal though, and would be much better if Democrats fight like hell and run up the score to ensure that Manchin's vote is never relied on.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
A good example of when his vote didn't matter

He was voting with the majority either way. He waited until literally the last possible second to announce his vote.

THE VOTE WAS 50-48. His vote absolutely mattered here! Wasn't this the reason why we keep him? Wasn't this the reason why he's there? To stop this shit?
 

Madison

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,388
Lima, Peru
Of course, if 2020 would be good enough for Dems to turn Arizona blue, there's a fair chance Sinema would change her mind.
Thats the thing: how much of Sinema is "playing the game" and how much of it is her genuinely believing in being a moderate? I know she was a Green Party candidate a decade ago but...people change, and thats certainly something to be concerned about. We can only hope that she will show up when her vote matters.

THE VOTE WAS 50-48. His vote absolutely mattered here! Wasn't this the reason why we keep him? Wasn't this the reason why he's there? To stop this shit?
Normally I agree with you but his vote would have made for a 49-49 tiebreaker, which would then be fixed by Pence pretty quickly. As horrible as it was, Joe did his thing and its arguable that it saved his West Virginia senate seat
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,140
Makes me wonder about internal polls, did they say something that made him feel safe saying this?
 

OtherWorldly

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
2,857
Joe Manchin and Sinema are both right of left democratic senators. This is part of the democratic tent wether progressive like it or not
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
58,365
Terana
Shit like that definitely rankles me. But it's not as if Bernie or any Dem would ever beat Trump in WV
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
THE VOTE WAS 50-48. His vote absolutely mattered here! Wasn't this the reason why we keep him? Wasn't this the reason why he's there? To stop this shit?

No it didn't, he was the only Democrat to vote yes. Tie breaker would have had Pence break it, you needed a GOP defector which we didn't have.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,328
THE VOTE WAS 50-48. His vote absolutely mattered here! Wasn't this the reason why we keep him? Wasn't this the reason why he's there? To stop this shit?

in the case of a tie, it would have been broken by pence so no it didn't matter unless you're not aware of how the senate works.