He won because it was an open primary and republicans wanted to vote against Hillary.
The exit polls at the time showed most of the people who voted Bernie would vote Trump over him.
It was a fuck you vote, nothing more.
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Joe Manchin Implies He'll Vote for Trump over Sanders
- Thread starter legacyzero
- Start date
The exit polls at the time showed most of the people who voted Bernie would vote Trump over him.
It was a fuck you vote, nothing more.
I see this sentiment all the time. He's not, stop. Saying it just shows you aren't from here and know fuck all about the state. People like the guy for some reason and he'll continue to win any state race he runs.
it was a calculated vote because of Collins he voted yes. Even if he voted no, pence would have broken the tie. He voted and his support in WV didn't drop. Welcome to politics
We have a dude saying he would vote for Trump under the right circumstances. Generally people would drag him for even considering supporting white supremacy. But he's a D in a red district so he gets a pass?
I doubt that anyone here likes Manchin (I hate him, hes a transphobic piece of shit). But he wins elections, hes the 47th democrat in the senate.
What are democrats supposed to do? He was primaried and her competitor lost by a lot. You might say that Paula Jean lost because the dem establishment and the media left her to die and I would agree. But, if you dont have a strategy to primary and beat him, theres little we can do aside from doing the "fuck Joe Manchin" dance over and over again for years to come
because Manchin votes 50% with democrats. If he were to lose to a Republican ,that Rep would vote 0% with the democrats . I mean .. look at the context. You need Manchin more than you don't . It's simple statistics
Glad we're at the point where this is celebrated as smart rather than be appalled that our system has degraded to this point. Oh and these "oh you naive idiot" posts are really making me see your side where you stan hard for someone who votes a rapist into the Supreme Court, whose effect will be felt on the country for decades. I'm sure all those women and minorities that will suffer thanks to his influence will be completely understanding that political gaming mattered to him more than their lives.
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It really doesn't matter who Democrats in WV vote for in a primary, there aren't enough of them to win a statewide office in a general.
Yep.
Edit cause laughable wasn't what I actually meant.
Practicality over principle, people. Would you like to deal with a Joe Manchin or an extra Shelley Moore Capito?
He's not a D in a red district, he's a D in a red state that went for Trump +42.2%
I'll just repeat that so you guys understand, he is a Senator in a state that went for Trump +42.2%
Manchin is a scumbag, but not really unexpected. Lots of horrible people in that state. At some point Manchin will have to be dealt with, but leftists and liberals will need to really up their "hearts and minds" campaign to ever stand a chance at change in that state.
I guess they better go with Biden then, or they'll lose West Virginia which they wouldn't win anyway.
Why are you asking me.
And they were told 'fuck you' right back for no reason.
you know what? just nevermind...
Like even if you subscribe to the "practicality" argument, that doesn't explain this hard defense of his nonexistent honor. He's a republican with a D next to his name that conveniently votes D at some points. You can be that and still say his statements are absolute garbage.
Who is stanning for Kavanaugh?
You're assuming that his vote was critical, it wasn't. The Democrats didn't have the GOP defectors to make someone like Manchin's "Yes" vote matter to vote "No".
Kavanaugh voting "Yes" likely saved his campaign in 2018, that's how insane WV is.
So here is the stat
Manchin votes with democrats 50% of the time
If Manchin were to vote with democrats 80-100% of the time, he would lose his seat in next election
If a Republican were a Senator in WV, that Republican would vote 0% of the time with democrats
what would you rather have . Someone with principle and lose his seat to a Republican or someone who keeps his seat and votes with democrats 50% of the time
what is the best outcome for democrats in long run ?
you know the answer
Manchin votes with democrats 50% of the time
If Manchin were to vote with democrats 80-100% of the time, he would lose his seat in next election
If a Republican were a Senator in WV, that Republican would vote 0% of the time with democrats
what would you rather have . Someone with principle and lose his seat to a Republican or someone who keeps his seat and votes with democrats 50% of the time
what is the best outcome for democrats in long run ?
you know the answer
Yes, it was smart a smart move for Joe Manchin. Regardless of who he voted for, Kavanaugh was getting in and that's the reality of it. A statement vote that could lose a Democratic seat in the senate doesn't make sense.
How many votes has that 50% of the time actually benefited the dem parrty's ideals? This isn't rhetorical, I'm really wondering.
Why am I included on this list of quotes? I am explaining how Bernie plans to use the bully pulpit to whip the votes he needs from Manchins of the world
Most of the posts you quoted arent celebrating anything, they were explaining things to you (I wont defend Otherworldly tho). Do you think that anyone here is happy that Kavanaugh is in the SC? From a moral standpoint, Machin"s vote is repugnant, obviously.
But again, from a politics angle, his vote did not matter, at all. Please understand: The only tangible change that would have happened if he had voted yes is that instead of having 47 senate seats, the democrats might had have 46 right now.
If the democrats had 46 seats right now the battle for the senate in 2020 would be almost impossible instead of being difficult but plausible. His seat matters.
What do you think would have happened if he voted No? Collins was a goner and no one else was going to flip their vote. The battle was lost. Taking the moral decision would have been respectable but (as Heitkamp and arguably Bredessen showed us) these kind of decisions have a political cost. And im happy that, as fucking awful as Manchin is, he is on that WV seat instead of Patrick Morrisey.
That's not going to matter if Sanders doesn't embrace nuking the filibuster.
Helio you're not an idiot, but you're continued willful obtuseness is so fucking mind numbingly taxing to constantly read when everyone knows you're writing things you know are pattently pointless or outright false just because you want something to fit a narrative.
No, it's not sending mixed signals. His personal vote does not matter in a state that is +40% Trump in 2016. He didn't vote for the tax cut and the murder of ACA, one of those votes was critical when the other was unfortunately not. Either way, the only two critical legislative pieces under Trump has him vote with the D's. There are no "mixed signals", the people he represents are fucking Trump loving racists.
He doesn't represent someone like you, the state he is a Senator for has a population that has statistically been completely static for like 100 years.
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Yes.
There is no reasonable political argument for getting rid of Manchin. I even find the moral arguments to be exceedingly tenuous, because If we lost Manchin, fighting for legislation that will actually help the people of this country would become even more difficult.
It's placing ideological purity over actual human wellbeing.
I love how you're concerned about purity testing from the left when this is a democratic senator talking about voting for a Republican
Lmao!!! #bothsides. That's one hell of a balancing act, I would secretly hate my constituents.
I'm not comfortable with not holding politicians accountable because it "didn't matter." It matters. It always matters. If we can't hold them accountable for their votes then what the hell are we doing? Just analyzing polls?
The people who would want to hold him accountable don't matter unfortunately as they aren't constituents of West Virginia.
Edit: and there aren't enough constituents in West Virginia to actually hold him accountable.
His constituents hold him accountable, not you or other left wing people.
The only people that have the power to make a difference here have a voting record that would make you significantly uncomfortable, though.
Seeing this juxtaposed with all the "pragmatic" posting is kind of...not a good feeling.
That's evidence of his quantum property of supporting two positions at once.
Photographically capturing a macro object exhibiting such properties is a scientific achievement worthy of a Nobel Prize.
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I forgot that Sanders was running for Senator of WV. I also forgot that he won WV in the general election.
Winning a state primary is not the same as winning an election. Manchin is a WV democrat in a state that is solid red. We DO need him.
In this case "holding him accountable" would be the people of West Virginia voting him out of office for going against their wishes.
We do still live in a Republic, ultimately politicians are supposed to represent their constituents.
Are you sure??
Because I'm really confident that Sanders could totally surmount a +42% 2016 victory vs. Trump
Gotta trust that gut, you centrist neoliberal
Accountability is not just having the power to vote him in or out. Criticism is a part of accountability and I don't need to be his constituent in order to do that.
Sure, but you're just willingly ignoring the fact that his state went +42% in 2016 for Trump and pretending that everything exists in a vacuum for your criticisms to actually make sense.
Politics is always a game. Imagine an alternate reality where Manchin has a history of making his irrelevant votes blue in order to not look gross to liberals.
West Virginia is a deeply red state, so in this reality, Manchin wouldn't be in the senate. His district would instead be represented by a hard-red republican who votes republican party line 100% of the time when it matters. So, for instance, the ACA repeal would have passed. I'm sure all those Americans who lost their health care thanks to his lack of influence will be completely understanding that political gaming mattered more to him than their lives.
He just says he's a socialist
Useful for reducing the stigma of socialism in the US but it also hurts him in country-wide elections while not even having the benefit of being a socialist lol
Anyway yeah Manchin sucks but he's in WV and no democrat president is winning that state.
No it didn't.
If it was a situation where he would have been the tiebreaker and he voted yes then you would have a point. But he wasn't and he knew it.
Is this sarcasm?
The last time WV voted blue was 1996. You think you can get a more liberal Senator in WV than Manchin? You realize we'd like to take back the Senate?
Yes lol, thought the "centrist neoliberal" was making that a bit obvious
I mean, we can criticize him all we want. I hate Manchin, I hate that hes a part of the democratic senate, and he supports many stupid things like deregulation and the like.
I said it before, what Manchin does is horrific if you want to talk about morality. But, in the specific case of the Kavanaugh vote, I understand where that vote came from, as voting No might have costed him his senate seat. Its shit, and politics are shit, but this is just reality.
Also, how do we plan to "hold them accountable"? I supported Paula Jean in her attempt to primary him. She failed. I would support her again if she tried again. What else do you want us to do? To criticize him endlessly? Cause we already do that and we will continue to do so.
I have more of a problem with someone like Sinema, whose state is arguably not red enough to justify her game, than with Manchin, who lives in a +42 Trump state and had a very credible opponent last year, so he needed to be careful with every move he made.
Here's his voting record showing when he did, and didn't, vote in line with Trump.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/joe-manchin-iii/