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ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616


For those that don't know who Lawrence Lessig is:

Lester Lawrence Lessig III (born June 3, 1961) is an American academic, attorney, and political activist. He is the Roy L. Furman Professor of Law at Harvard Law School and the former director of the Edmond J. Safra Center for Ethics at Harvard University.[1] Lessig was a candidate for the Democratic Party's nomination for President of the United States in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, but withdrew before the primaries.

Lessig is a proponent of reduced legal restrictions on copyright, trademark, and radio frequency spectrum, particularly in technology applications. In 2001, he founded Creative Commons, a non-profit organization devoted to expanding the range of creative works available for others to build upon and to share legally. Prior to his most recent appointment at Harvard, he was a professor of law at Stanford Law School, where he founded the Center for Internet and Society, and at the University of Chicago. He is a former board member of the Free Software Foundation and Software Freedom Law Center; the Washington, D.C. lobbying groups Public Knowledge and Free Press; and the Electronic Frontier Foundation.[2]

As a political activist, Lessig has called for state-based activism to promote substantive reform of government with a Second Constitutional Convention.[3] In May 2014, he launched a crowd-funded political action committeewhich he termed Mayday PAC with the purpose of electing candidates to Congress who would pass campaign finance reform.[4] Lessig is also the co-founder of Rootstrikers, and is on the boards of MapLight and Represent.Us.[5] He serves on the advisory boards of the Democracy Café[6] and the Sunlight Foundation.[7]

In August 2015, Lessig announced that he was exploring a possible candidacy for President of the United States, promising to run if his exploratory committee raised $1 million by Labor Day.[8][9] After accomplishing this, on September 6, 2015, Lessig announced that he was entering the race to become a candidate for the 2016 Democratic Party's presidential nomination.[10] Lessig has described his candidacy as a referendum on campaign finance reform and electoral reform legislation. He stated that, if elected, he would serve a full term as president with his proposed reforms as his legislative priorities.[11] He ended his campaign in November 2015, citing rule changes from the Democratic Party that precluded him from appearing in the televised debates.[12][13]

Lessig speaking with Harvard internet law professor Jonathan Zittrain
Lessig has been politically liberal since studying philosophy at Cambridge in the mid-1980s. By the late 1980s, two influential conservative judges, Judge Richard Posner and Justice Antonin Scalia, selected him to serve as a law clerk, choosing him for his supposed "brilliance" rather than for his ideology and effectively making him the "token liberal" on their staffs.[21] Posner would later call him "the most distinguished law professor of his generation."[22]

Lessig has emphasized in interviews that his philosophy experience at Cambridge radically changed his values and career path. Previously, he had held strong conservative or libertarian political views, desired a career in business, was a highly active member of Teenage Republicans, served as the Youth Governor for Pennsylvania through the YMCA Youth and Government program[23] in 1978, and almost pursued a Republican political career.

What was intended to be a year abroad at Cambridge convinced him instead to stay another two years to complete an undergraduate degree in philosophy and develop his changed political values. During this time, he also traveled in the Eastern Bloc, where he acquired a lifelong interest in Eastern European law and politics.

Lessig remains skeptical of government intervention but favors some regulation, calling himself "a constitutionalist." On one occasion, Lessig also commended the John McCain campaign for discussing fair use rights in a letter to YouTube where it took issue with YouTube for indulging overreaching copyright claims leading to the removal of various campaign videos.[24]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Lessig


I'd highly recommend to watch the interview. And after that, this:

https://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim/transcript

Hell, you could watch this TED Talk first because that's precisely what they are talking about right now. Hate Rogan, but Lessig is actually brilliant and has opinions that should be considered when it comes to the actual USA's political landscape.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
I found out about Lessig years back when Cenk was really into him. His usual speeches fine, but he's very one note. In general, railing on getting money out of politics is nice, but it has to be apart of a huge scale effort in combination with other initiatives and a broader scale vision
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,296
America
i'm sure he'll have other interviews i can check out

I dislike Rogan, but I like the long-form format of his interviews.

Just as I say this, Lessing starts complaining about short minute-length news segments and praising the format. Clearly we are soulmates <3

Ignore the Rogan and savor the Lessig. Let not the fly in the soup dissuade you from drinking it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
Definitely will listen. I've archived all episodes since the last time he had comedians on because they didn't interest me.
 

VectorPrime

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
11,781
Fuck Joe Rogan and fuck anyone who defends him.

Oh great he has a maybe non garbage person on as a guest that completely makes up for all of the goddamn Nazis that make up his regular programming.

Fuck off
 

Burly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,064
So it's going to be 2 hours of Joe looking lost and saying "fascinating" whenever the guest stops talking.
 
OP
OP
ZattMurdock

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
Fuck Joe Rogan and fuck anyone who defends him.

Oh great he has a maybe non garbage person on as a guest that completely makes up for all of the goddamn Nazis that make up his regular programming.

Fuck off
Not defending him at all and I agree with every single critic of Rogan, but some important information I didn't heard before it's being shared there, and the long format helps Lessig to actually flesh out his ideas and I've been following him since college, so that's why I've made the thread.

Lessig also comments on a rumor that Khashoggi was killed because he was about to uncover a scheme involving hacking that I didn't understand completely because I'm doing five things at once, but if someone is also listening, it could help it clarify to me.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
So it's going to be 2 hours of Joe looking lost and saying "fascinating" whenever the guest stops talking.
5I05b1n.jpg


I couldn't find the other similar (and very funny) Rogan meme. Sorry.
 

Deleted member 13148

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,188
I've been a fan of Lessig since I heard him speak at my college, back when he was focused on copyright laws, before he realized those laws would never be fixed until we fix politics. However, I'm not willing to put up with Rogan.
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,302
I found out about Lessig years back when Cenk was really into him. His usual speeches fine, but he's very one note. In general, railing on getting money out of politics is nice, but it has to be apart of a huge scale effort in combination with other initiatives and a broader scale vision
This is both vague and weirdly dismissive. You can't fix any other problems with the root of evil being the purchasing of politicians
 

Burrman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,633
Watched a few interviews of Joes. What did he do that everyone hates him for around here? Seems like a decent guy
 

Grain Silo

Member
Dec 15, 2017
2,499
Watched a few interviews of Joes. What did he do that everyone hates him for around here? Seems like a decent guy

He throws his lot in with Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, and other right-wing nutters quite regularly and doesn't stake good convictions on pretty much any sensitive social issue other than marijuana legalization.

I think he's funny and listen to his podcast pretty regularly but he makes me shake my head a lot.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
This is both vague and weirdly dismissive. You can't fix any other problems with the root of evil being the purchasing of politicians

I am not dismissive of Lessig. If you know anything about my views or even posting history on politics, you know what i care about. I just have never gelled with his singular drive.

while i am a progressive who has getting money out of politics at the base of all of my economically(and in certain instances socially) progressive beliefs, i feel like actually selling that has to be in concert with far more than just the concept of money alone. it has to be connected to all the problems in our system that we see on a political level.

That was why i didn't really support his run in 2016 just on getting money out of politics alone. That's the very most basic thing that you have to believe in to earn my support, and things must come after that which matter.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
He throws his lot in with Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, and other right-wing nutters quite regularly and doesn't stake good convictions on pretty much any sensitive social issue other than marijuana legalization.

I think he's funny and listen to his podcast pretty regularly but he makes me shake my head a lot.

Basically, he leans in with whoever is on his show and doesn't commit to an actual stand on issues. If he has a progressive on, he will act more progressive(although he will obviously be completely outmatched like when Kyle was on), and if he has a right winger on, he has a tedency of basically going that extra mile to give an olive branch to their odious beliefs
 

BIG BENGHAZI

Member
Nov 29, 2018
66
Joe Rogan is the biggest rube on planet Earth. He believes the last person to talk to him about anything. He gives people like Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson and platform. He's the biggest pipeline to the alt-right outside of Youtube's algorithm.

Fuck him and his stupid podcast.
 

dcx4610

Member
Nov 13, 2017
120
Watched a few interviews of Joes. What did he do that everyone hates him for around here? Seems like a decent guy

He'll have people on that may be controversial or may perhaps be right wing. This triggers everyone that only wants an echo chamber and to shut down and deplatform anyone they disagree with.

I'm not the biggest Rogan fan but interviewing someone you disagree with is sometimes the best way to have civil discourse. We have to stop calling everyone you disagree with a Nazis or Alt-right. As someone who considers themselves liberal and left-of-center, I'm disgusted by all of the name calling and anti-freedom of speech that a sizable portion that the left have adopted.

If you are a liberal, be liberal. Don't be a fascist or authoritarian.
 

Arkestry

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,920
London
He'll have people on that may be controversial or may perhaps be right wing. This triggers everyone that only wants an echo chamber and to shut down and deplatform anyone they disagree with.

I'm not the biggest Rogan fan but interviewing someone you disagree with is sometimes the best way to have civil discourse. We have to stop calling everyone you disagree with a Nazis or Alt-right. As someone who considers themselves liberal and left-of-center, I'm disgusted by all of the name calling and anti-freedom of speech that a sizable portion that the left have adopted.

If you are a liberal, be liberal. Don't be a fascist or authoritarian.

In what way is Gavin McInnes 'maybe' right wing, and not a dyed-in -the-wool white nationalist? Or Sargon of Akkad? Even if you ignore those and focus just on the Shapiros and Petersons, I don't think anyone could call them 'maybe' right wing with a straight face. They're unabashedly right wing, and they flirt with the alt-right every chance they get.
 

DOBERMAN INC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,990
To be fair you only have to listen for 10 minutes before realising if a guest is fucking nuts or not, then I just turn it off.
His good podcasts far outway the crazy ones for me since I just ignore the crazy, in fact his recent mma and boxing guests have been great episodes.
 

dcx4610

Member
Nov 13, 2017
120
Joe Rogan is the biggest rube on planet Earth. He believes the last person to talk to him about anything. He gives people like Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson and platform. He's the biggest pipeline to the alt-right outside of Youtube's algorithm.

Fuck him and his stupid podcast.

Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson!? The horror!

I guess he should only have people on that are progressive, left wing or far left? What fun is that? I like hearing different ideas and seeing where people are coming from. I don't have to agree with them but unless they are saying something extremely absurd or offensive, I'll hear them out. Maybe we can come to some kind of middle ground.

While I disagree with most of what Ben Shapiro's policies, I don't think he's a bad person. I actually like listening to some of this interviews to hear his perspective. He's an orthodox Jew and to call him a Nazi or alt-right is absurd. He's simply a conservative with a different viewpoint but is open to common ground. I want MORE conservatives like that. He's actually willing to talk and be civil with people on the left.

As for Jordan, of course he's more controversial and there are certainly things I disagree with but he's an intelligent and well spoken guy who is also willing to have a conversation. I wouldn't consider him right-wing at all. He's not a Trump supporter. He's simply a professor with a curious mind.
 

smellyjelly

Avenger
Aug 2, 2018
774
In what way is Gavin McInnes 'maybe' right wing, and not a dyed-in -the-wool white nationalist? Or Sargon of Akkad? Even if you ignore those and focus just on the Shapiros and Petersons, I don't think anyone could call them 'maybe' right wing with a straight face. They're unabashedly right wing, and they flirt with the alt-right every chance they get.

He's also ignoring that outside of Candace Owens, Rogan rarely pushes against guests that are straight up spreading misinformation and bigotry. Rogan doesn't engage in debate. There's no civil discourse. Rogan leans into the personality of whoever his guest is and entertains their shitty alt-right point of view. Rogan is not preparing himself for a debate, he's creating a platform for the individuals of the alt-right/white nationalists to come on his podcast and spread misinformation and bigotry unchecked.
 

RavFiveFour

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
1,721
No one can be upset with who's he's interviewing, simply don't listen but c'mon upgrade who you're interviewing Joe! This dude looks like an evil Death Star commander.
 

VectorPrime

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
11,781
Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson!? The horror!

I guess he should only have people on that are progressive, left wing or far left? What fun is that? I like hearing different ideas and seeing where people are coming from. I don't have to agree with them but unless they are saying something extremely absurd or offensive, I'll hear them out. Maybe we can come to some kind of middle ground.

While I disagree with most of what Ben Shapiro's policies, I don't think he's a bad person. I actually like listening to some of this interviews to hear his perspective. He's an orthodox Jew and to call him a Nazi or alt-right is absurd. He's simply a conservative with a different viewpoint but is open to common ground. I want MORE conservatives like that. He's actually willing to talk and be civil with people on the left.

As for Jordan, of course he's more controversial and there are certainly things I disagree with but he's an intelligent and well spoken guy who is also willing to have a conversation. I wouldn't consider him right-wing at all. He's not a Trump supporter. He's simply a professor with a curious mind.

Fuck you.

No you don't deserve anything more thoughtful. Just Fuck You.
 

Froyo Love

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,503
Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson!? The horror!

I guess he should only have people on that are progressive, left wing or far left? What fun is that? I like hearing different ideas and seeing where people are coming from. I don't have to agree with them but unless they are saying something extremely absurd or offensive, I'll hear them out. Maybe we can come to some kind of middle ground.
Yeah, maybe we can meet in the middle with Gavin McInnes.

What's the "fun" in hearing Rogan entertain regressive shitheads if he never challenges them on anything?
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
To be fair you only have to listen for 10 minutes before realising if a guest is fucking nuts or not, then I just turn it off.
His good podcasts far outway the crazy ones for me since I just ignore the crazy, in fact his recent mma and boxing guests have been great episodes.
Pretty much all of this. Except I'm not into MMA, so I tend to skip those too. Still can't wrap my head around how he arrived at Gavin being an innocent little troll, though.
 

dcx4610

Member
Nov 13, 2017
120
User Banned (1 month): Defending bigotry across a series of posts; Account in junior phase
In what way is Gavin McInnes 'maybe' right wing, and not a dyed-in -the-wool white nationalist? Or Sargon of Akkad? Even if you ignore those and focus just on the Shapiros and Petersons, I don't think anyone could call them 'maybe' right wing with a straight face. They're unabashedly right wing, and they flirt with the alt-right every chance they get.

I don't know much about Sargon. From what I seen of him, I'd consider him a libertarian and anti-PC. Rogan had Gavin on before most of the recent controversy.

Gavin is a comedian. I'm not a fan of his personality or comedy but that's fine. He's also a rabble rouser and professional troll. He's going to say things to get attention and grab attention.

I know we live in the age of social media and headlines and that clickbait drives the narrative but when you actually sit down and listen to these people, they are not the devils they are made out to be by the headlines. Again, you don't have to agree with them and I certainly don't on a lot of issues but it's OK to disagree with people and still be civil.
 
OP
OP
ZattMurdock

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson!? The horror!

I guess he should only have people on that are progressive, left wing or far left? What fun is that? I like hearing different ideas and seeing where people are coming from. I don't have to agree with them but unless they are saying something extremely absurd or offensive, I'll hear them out. Maybe we can come to some kind of middle ground.

While I disagree with most of what Ben Shapiro's policies, I don't think he's a bad person. I actually like listening to some of this interviews to hear his perspective. He's an orthodox Jew and to call him a Nazi or alt-right is absurd. He's simply a conservative with a different viewpoint but is open to common ground. I want MORE conservatives like that. He's actually willing to talk and be civil with people on the left.

As for Jordan, of course he's more controversial and there are certainly things I disagree with but he's an intelligent and well spoken guy who is also willing to have a conversation. I wouldn't consider him right-wing at all. He's not a Trump supporter. He's simply a professor with a curious mind.
Yeah I'll agree with the post above by VectorPrime , fuck off with this bullshit. No clue about Shapiro, but the other dude is an incels poster boy that spews complete nonsense , and that's factual.

The single reason I've made this thread is because I knew it'd be Lessig's show, and not Rogan's. Lessig is someone that the USA people should pay more attention to.
 

BIG BENGHAZI

Member
Nov 29, 2018
66
Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson!? The horror!

I guess he should only have people on that are progressive, left wing or far left? What fun is that? I like hearing different ideas and seeing where people are coming from. I don't have to agree with them but unless they are saying something extremely absurd or offensive, I'll hear them out. Maybe we can come to some kind of middle ground.

While I disagree with most of what Ben Shapiro's policies, I don't think he's a bad person. I actually like listening to some of this interviews to hear his perspective. He's an orthodox Jew and to call him a Nazi or alt-right is absurd. He's simply a conservative with a different viewpoint but is open to common ground. I want MORE conservatives like that. He's actually willing to talk and be civil with people on the left.

As for Jordan, of course he's more controversial and there are certainly things I disagree with but he's an intelligent and well spoken guy who is also willing to have a conversation. I wouldn't consider him right-wing at all. He's not a Trump supporter. He's simply a professor with a curious mind.


Damn, this dummy is a bigger rube than Joe Rogan.


Check out this civil tweet by Mr. Debate Nerd Ben Shapiro

 

VectorPrime

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
11,781
I don't know much about Sargon. From what I seen of him, I'd consider him a libertarian and anti-PC. Rogan had Gavin on before most of the recent controversy.

Gavin is a comedian. I'm not a fan of his personality or comedy but that's fine. He's also a rabble rouser and professional troll. He's going to say things to get attention and grab attention.

I know we live in the age of social media and headlines and that clickbait drives the narrative but when you actually sit down and listen to these people, they are not the devils they are made out to be by the headlines. Again, you don't have to agree with them and I certainly don't on a lot of issues but it's OK to disagree with people and still be civil.

Get banned fuckhead.
 

Froyo Love

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,503
I don't know much about Sargon. From what I seen of him, I'd consider him a libertarian and anti-PC. Rogan had Gavin on before most of the recent controversy.

Gavin is a comedian. I'm not a fan of his personality or comedy but that's fine. He's also a rabble rouser and professional troll. He's going to say things to get attention and grab attention.

I know we live in the age of social media and headlines and that clickbait drives the narrative but when you actually sit down and listen to these people, they are not the devils they are made out to be by the headlines. Again, you don't have to agree with them and I certainly don't on a lot of issues but it's OK to disagree with people and still be civil.
Wow, you mean that when these people are given platforms to spread the most flattering versions of their beliefs, you don't see any of their Neo-Nazi shit? Surprising.
 

Lackless

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,137
Thanks op, will listen. Joe is usually a great interviewer.

One of the few notable interviewers that lets his guests speak in complete sentences without interrupting them. He allows them to give their full opinion and then he responds. This is a rarity in media these days.
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,544
I know we live in the age of social media and headlines and that clickbait drives the narrative but when you actually sit down and listen to these people, they are not the devils they are made out to be by the headlines. Again, you don't have to agree with them and I certainly don't on a lot of issues but it's OK to disagree with people and still be civil.
If anything, the evidence that they themselves provide is even more damning than what articles describe. I doubt anyone could genuinely see what these people say and find it to be an overreaction unless they agree with them and are downplaying how awful it is due to the stigma against such rhetoric.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
I don't know much about Sargon. From what I seen of him, I'd consider him a libertarian and anti-PC. Rogan had Gavin on before most of the recent controversy.

Gavin is a comedian. I'm not a fan of his personality or comedy but that's fine. He's also a rabble rouser and professional troll. He's going to say things to get attention and grab attention.

I know we live in the age of social media and headlines and that clickbait drives the narrative but when you actually sit down and listen to these people, they are not the devils they are made out to be by the headlines. Again, you don't have to agree with them and I certainly don't on a lot of issues but it's OK to disagree with people and still be civil.
There is no way in hell Gavin is just being a troll. He incited violence for fun and then quit his own group when the Feds labeled them a hate group and arrested a bunch of their members. Did he quit because he wanted to make it known he was just goofing? No. He quit because he hoped that the feds would go easier on the assholes who were arrested if he wasn't part of the group. Gavin isn't a troll. He's a dangerous piece of shit, and by defending him Joe himself is a dangerous moron. I still enjoy his podcast when the topic interests me though.
 

dcx4610

Member
Nov 13, 2017
120
Yeah, maybe we can meet in the middle with Gavin McInnes.

What's the "fun" in hearing Rogan entertain regressive shitheads if he never challenges them on anything?

Except that he does? Rogan isn't the smartest tool in the toolshed so you can't expect him to always "win" but I've heard him challenge plenty of people.

He had on Candance Owens who recently made news when Kanye West said he thought she had good ideas. So what does Rogan do? He wants to interview her and find out what her ideas are. Even though she's a conservative, he wanted to hear her out. I respect that.

When they got to the subject of climate change, she said she hasn't really looked into it but thinks it's probably man made. He went off on her as that being an ignorant position to take and that she was essentially parroting back a right-wing talking point without any evidence.

I'm not here to defend Rogan though. I just get tired of every time someone mentions him, people flip out and act like he's some secret alt-right mastermind that gives platforms to all of these evil guests. Do a few actual scumbags slip through? Sure. Is having a few right wing people on and having a conversation that terrible? Not to me it isn't.

I'm really opposed to this form of the left that thinks everyone should be shut down that they disagree with. Shutting people down does not make them go away. It's best to discuss ideas and hopefully come to a better understanding or common ground. If we can't, we can say we have tried and move on.

This left vs. right stuff has never been worse in my lifetime. Tribalism is in full effect and is pushing us towards populism and authoritarianism.