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John “TotalBiscuit” Bain to be inducted into Esports Hall of Fame as first non-player

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Zafir

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,004
Potterson said:
TB was so f**king naive when it came to Gamergate and trying to talk about gaming journalism for real, but you are silly if you believe he actually supported harassment towards women in the industry and he was "part of the movement".

He talked with GG people about games journalism ergo he hates women and he is a bigot. Eh.
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Come on, it's disingenuous to argue that Totalbiscuit was naive and/or dumb. He was an intelligent man, I don't believe for one second that he was "duped" by the movement.

I also don't believe he was there to singularly harass women either. I think he just saw it as an opportunity to push an agenda he was interested in, ie ethics in journalism, and didn't really care at the time that it ended up empowering those people who did harass women since it didn't affect him at first (until it spread out onto women he was friends with).
 
Carl2291

Carl2291

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,782
Heckler456 said:
Some of you people are genuine vultures. What do some of your comments accomplish, exactly, except for the visceral feel of taking a dump from on high on a person you seem to hate?
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Those who embrace questionable stances and opinions are always going to have that small group of people who can't help but shit on them when they're gone. Was always going to happen with TB, with how opinionated amd outspoken he was.

On the topic itself, good. TB was unmatched when it came to his commitment to support PC gaming. Very well deserved.
 
Heckler456

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
Brock Reiher said:
The bad things he's done out weigh the good things he's done. the good things are insignificant in comparison. the end is I don't want him to be remembered as anything more than that.
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So your only goal is for him to be badly remembered?

If there was any merit to your argument, that the good do in actual fact weigh out the bad, then shouldn't that be the naturally evident, without your insistence?

And again, hypothetically speaking, he's remembered badly. Now what? What do you gain? What does society gain?
 
Dierce

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,993
Calibro said:
From my experience watching TB and listening to his podcasts, ethics in game journalism for him was just that, ethics. If you're friends with a developer, disclose that in your review of that developer's game. If you're receving money to write / create something and promote some game, disclose that. Etc.
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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say all of that is true, personally I haven't watched much TB content except for a video where he compared both trump and clinton. The problem is that the very statement is owned by the gamergaters, it's their calling card. So using it, even if you don't agree with them, makes others identify the person saying it with the hate group.
 
'3y Kingdom

'3y Kingdom

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,494
DeepChord said:
Did you read it? He also says:

  • "Does it fucking suck that people like Sarkeesian and Quinn were threatened by thugs on the internet? Absolutely."
  • "Do we have a bunch of shitty people that play videogames on the internet? Yes, we do and it sucks [...]"
  • "Could games do a better job at the potrayal of minority groups? Yup."
Sure, there are highly questionable statements in this comment, but clearly the picture isn't as black and white as some would like it to be.

Assuming for a moment I would be into that GG trash I would have to twist reality pretty hard to turn TB into some kind of figurehead of the movement considering his progressive stance.
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The fact that TB couldn't provide a "black-and-white" explanation of the fact that Gamergate was nothing more than a hate movement is exactly why he's being criticized. "Both sides" doesn't apply here.
Heckler456 said:
And I ask again, to what end? What does it accomplish? Why do you so desperately want people to only see the bad about him, and actually do what you don't want others to do with the bad things, which is sweep the good things under the rug?
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What an ironic question.
 
DeepChord

DeepChord

Member
Jan 21, 2018
1,186
Noodle said:
You really shouldn't cherry-pick quotes when the full text is available on the previous page. The full quotes:


Pray tell, what could possibly excuse this comment:

"The only people driving women out of the games industry are the fear-mongering yellow journalists repeating the narrative that women are under attack."

Not only does he say the narrative that women are under attack false, but yellow journalists are using it to smear gamergators and drive women away.
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Accusing me of cherry-picking and continuing with doing just that to prove your point is pretty hilarious. TBH I really don't see your point here. Like I said, there are some questionable lines in the comment, but nothing that actually supports gamergate,
 
Noodle

Noodle

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
3,427
Heckler456 said:
You don't sweep a person's "association with a virulent hate-group" under the rug by being respectful of the dead, dude.
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If that's the case then why are you calling people "vultures" for not sweeping it away?

Also, explain to me exactly what it is that you seek to accomplish by reminding people that this deceased person "had an association with a virulent hate-group"? What do you seek to gain? What good will come of this?
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To remind people of historical accuracy and to counteract the disturbing push to whitewash his actions and have him lionised with an honor in a gaming hall of fame.
 
danhz

danhz

Member
Apr 20, 2018
3,231
rras1994 said:
No it didn't- it started with a pissed off ex saying that a dev slept with a guy for a review- and that guy didn't review that game anyway
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Grunge_Hamster said:
I'm sure it started with an ex-boyfriend of game developer Zoe Quinn complaining in an open letter or 4chan or something, she lefted him, and somehow blaiming a journalist, who happened to do an article (Not a review) on her free game about depression, and also shortly dated her.
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Kinsei said:
No it didn't. It started when a guy made up lies about his ex girlfriend, accusing her of sleeping with journalists for good reviews. It never had anything to do with actual ethics in games journalism.
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thx for the rectification, never got too deep into it since it was ...., and info in internet is mixed
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
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Oct 28, 2017
23,310
Brock Reiher said:
The bad things he's done out weigh the good things he's done. the good things are insignificant in comparison. the end is I don't want him to be remembered as anything more than that.


I followed him as he was doing it so yes. if you've followed him recently you may have missed some of the tweets that he has since deleted once the writing was on the wall.
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Classy
 
Heckler456

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
Dmax3901 said:
Shitty people should not be celebrated, it's not fucking rocket science my dude.
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People should be remembered for what they were, "my dude". Their shitty things should be remembered. The good they've done should be remembered.

This isn't fucking Hitler we're talking about here. Or George W Bush. Or heck, Chernovich or Alex Jones. Some of you people need to get some perspective.
 
Muad'dib

Muad'dib

Banned
Jun 7, 2018
1,253
Frecklestein said:
Supporting a hate movement is (IMHO) a great enough example. Sorry.
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But he backed away from GG, check post #121.

What can you do? You guys won't even bother to research things a bit, you just see that single tweet being brought up over and over again and you already made up your minds about him. A lot of shit happened between that tweet and him dying, one of them is him distancing himself away from GG.

It's like some of you have never heard of redemption, very few people are above it.
 
Heckler456

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
Noodle said:
If that's the case then why are you calling people "vultures" for not sweeping it away?



To remind people of historical accuracy and to counteract the disturbing push to whitewash his actions and have him lionised with an honor in a gaming hall of fame.
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I'm calling them vultures for the way in which they're talking, not to content of their posts.
 
Danzflor

Danzflor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,710
Heckler456 said:
And again, hypothetically speaking, he's remembered badly. Now what? What do you gain? What does society gain?
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Society gains the knowledge and culture to never be like that again. To don't repeat the mistakes of the past. There's a reason why when dictators die their horrible actions keep being brought up and archived, their actions/hate doesn't dissolve in thin air when they pass.
 
Tygre

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,100
Chesire, UK
Grimsen said:
Didn't know ERA harbored so many Gaters.
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The move helped, a lot of them snuck back in and are just quieter now.

The ones that stuck around tend to be more subtle too.

SilentRob said:
I strongly disliked TB for his often dismissive nature and normalisation of a toxic "Us Against Them"-culture in regards to the relation between "gamers" and journalists/developers. And certainly his support of GamerGate in 2014 held a large part in that, too. But I feel like just throwing him into a bucket with all thos thransphobic, racist, homophobic assholes who think liberals are destroying their precious alt-right utopia where is simplifying him and his politics too much, especially considering that he isn't here to defend himself anymore.
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"There are people shittier than TB" is not the defence you think it is. None of those assholes should be in the esports hall of fame either.

Not being a boilerplate Republican doesn't absolve him from what happened with GG.
 
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Calibro

Calibro

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Oct 27, 2017
1,822
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'3y Kingdom said:
The fact that TB couldn't provide a "black-and-white" explanation of the fact that Gamergate was nothing more than a hate movement is exactly why he's being criticized.
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Because life is way more complicated than black and white. Being an extremist of any side is stupid. You're supposed to think with your own head and not follow blindly for any cause.
 
Kinsei

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,519
Muad'dib said:
What can you do? You guys won't even bother to research things a bit, you just see that single tweet being brought up over and over again and you already made up your minds about him. A lot of shit happened between that tweet and him dying, one of them is him distancing himself away from GG.
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He was still attacking Anita Sarkeesian as recently as August 2017.
 

DryCreek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,987
danhz said:
It started with some ppl claiming for ethical gaming journalism since a corrupted review, but continued by some brainless as a persecution, misogyny and many other bull shit
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nan it started with a guy getting salty that a woman dumped his ass, so he made up a bunch of lies about her sleeping with jurnos for reviews. thats what started the "ethics" crap. but fundamentally it was always about a man getting his fee fee's hurt then using the internet hate machine to exact his revenge.

TB dint harass women directly, but he failed to condemn groups that did and even openly supported them and the issues they were talking about and with those actions he gave those movements confidence to continue what they were doing.

so TB did contribute to the harassment of women in the games industry / media even if that was against his beliefs
 
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Noodle

Noodle

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Aug 22, 2018
3,427
DeepChord said:
Accusing me of cherry-picking and continuing with doing just that to prove your point is pretty hilarious. TBH I really don't see your point here. Like I said, there are some questionable lines in the comment, but nothing that actually supports gamergate,
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Going through an article, picking out all the "Did [...] happen? Yes, but [...]" and deleting all the "Yes, buts..." is the definition of cherry-picking.

Your failure to address the content of his comment and resort to vague "This doesn't look like anything to me" only highlights your gator support.
 
Tirisfal

Tirisfal

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Oct 27, 2017
939
London
Brock Reiher said:
I followed him as he was doing it so yes. if you've followed him recently you may have missed some of the tweets that he has since deleted once the writing was on the wall.
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I've not seen anything by him that convinced me he enjoyed harassing women and would use a movement to have as a cover for reveling in it.

If you believe that then what do you think of the women he worked with? Like Dodger, who is one of the sweetest people, and his own wife? You think they'd want to associate with a woman hater/harasser?
 
Dalik

Dalik

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,528
Calibro said:
He never supported hate and harrasment. He condemned them (just see the screenshot right in this thread and read through his comment). If you have evidence of the opposite, I'm open to it.
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"I'm also not going to claim they [death threats] were credible because well, Anita is still breathing"
 
SmarmySmurf

SmarmySmurf

Banned
Nov 5, 2017
1,931
He was scum, any defense of this asshole is hollow and dishonest. Nothing about him deserves to be celebrated.
 

Deleted member 5596

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Thorrgal said:
If he supported a hate group the Era mods would make it really clear...they don't shy away of hard stance's
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Considering the passion the guy gets from a sizable amount of ppl in this forum I doubt the mod team wants to deal with that hot potato.

In any case his support of a hate group is been proved for years now, a support he never denied and openly admitted.

He also never apologized for it, btw
 

Deleted member 176

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Tirisfal said:
I've not seen anything by him that convinced me he enjoyed harassing women and would use a movement to have as a cover for reveling in it.

If you believe that then what do you think of the women he worked with? Like Dodger, who is one of the sweetest people, and his own wife? You think they'd want to associate with a woman hater/harasser?
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Yes. If you've been following the Brett Kavanaugh story, it's obvious that people with a history of negative behavior towards women can still be friends with and supported by women.
 
AlanOC91

AlanOC91

Owner of YGOPRODeck.com
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Nov 5, 2017
960
Heckler456 said:
People should be remembered for what they were, "my dude". Their shitty things should be remembered. The good they've done should be remembered.

This isn't fucking Hitler we're talking about here. Or George W Bush. Or heck, Chernovich or Alex Jones. Some of you people need to get some perspective.
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Unfortunately perspective is something that tends to be lacking in online mediums. I'm not at all getting involved in any of the debates here but I've seen it quite often here, the old place and a few more forums that if you do one thing wrong you will always be associated with that one thing and branded/shunned forever.
 
Dmax3901

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,865
Heckler456 said:
People should be remembered for what they were, "my dude". Their shitty things should be remembered. The good they've done should be remembered.

This isn't fucking Hitler we're talking about here. Or George W Bush. Or heck, Chernovich or Alex Jones. Some of you people need to get some perspective.
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He didn't commit genocide, invade Iraq or start conspiracy theories about Sandy Hook so we should cut him some slack?
 
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Calibro

Calibro

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Oct 27, 2017
1,822
Belarus
Dalik said:
"I'm also not going to claim they [death threats] were credible because well, Anita is still breathing"
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He apologized for that.
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sejtrh
http://blueplz.blogspot.com/2014/11/my-reply-to-earnest-petties-critique-of.html
So during this video I made a comment about "credible death-threats". I worded this You can find my clarification here - www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sejtrh - I also apologize to anyone offended by this. I want to make it abundantly clear that credible or not, death-threats are horrific and nobody should have to endure them. My experience with them over the last few years has perhaps left me jaded to them and resulted in me referring to them in a flippant manner. Regardless of my experiences, I shouldn't be saying things that make light of death threats, regardless of their credibility
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Zafir

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,004
Muad'dib said:
But he backed away from GG, check post #121.

What can you do? You guys won't even bother to research things a bit, you just see that single tweet being brought up over and over again and you already made up your minds about him. A lot of shit happened between that tweet and him dying, one of them is him distancing himself away from GG.

It's like some of you have never heard of redemption, very few people are above it.
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He never asked for forgiveness lol.

He said that he regretted some of his actions, but that does not make up for the people's lives that were made miserable due to his involvement in the cause. Sure he didn't harass people himself, but even just publicising it, or fighting for it did absolutely help the movement gain traction and empower it.

If he'd have actually come out with a proper apology for his actions, maybe this would have ended differently, but he didn't. So I don't know why people here are expecting us to forgive him when he didn't even want to be forgiven in the first place.
 
DionardoLicaprio

DionardoLicaprio

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,587
Calibro said:
Ethics in gaming journalism, creative freedom and inclusiveness, what terrible things huh.
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Disgusting
/s
Truthfully, I think it's incredibly disgusting insulting someone when he's not here to defend, so it's pretty insane seeing all this hate against John.

I'm happy ESL doesn't give two fucks about this type of comments.
 

-COOLIO-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,125
And here I was thinking that the rdr2 100 hours work week debacle and it's aftermath might have taught this forum a thing or two about the complexity and nuance of people and life. But nah, everything is still black and white.

What's the worst thing you've ever done?
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
7,747
Calibro said:
Because life is way more complicated than black and white. Being an extremist of any side is stupid. You're supposed to think with your own head and not follow blindly for any cause.
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"extremist of any side"...

Ok

One thing:Yeah, things aren't usual black and white in this world. But if you support a hate group, who harassed and kicked out of the industry women, because some stupid anti game journalism crusade, you are in the wrong side of the history.
 
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