• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.
OP
OP
Calibro

Calibro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,822
Belarus
Sure. Here's one that isn't related to GG, but still.

"come after me fine, come after my audience, enjoy the consequences"
Eh? Isn't that just like, a fact? Is he endorsing harassing anyone in this tweet?
TB was never a guy who believed internet audiences can be controlled. And he knew a lot of people in his audience were lowlife fuckwits. This tweet is basically "cmon don't do that you know what's going to happen".
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
"come after me fine, come after my audience, enjoy the consequences"
Eh? Isn't that just like, a fact? Is he endorsing harassing anyone in this tweet?
TB was never a guy who believed internet audiences can be controlled. And he knew a lot of people in his audience were lowlife fuckwits. This tweet is basically "cmon don't do that you know what's going to happen".

"Do with it what you will" is for his audience.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,316
There

There are plenty of things in life that are black and white.

I'm sure for you there are tons

Just wow, now I'm in support of Gamergate, because of saying I don't see clear evidence of TB being in support of that trash movement. Some people really need to chill the fuck down with throwing wild accusations around just because I'm not agreeing to 100%.

For the record: I despise everything gamergate stands for. But for me that doesn't mean I have to despise TB and everything he did.

This
 
OP
OP
Calibro

Calibro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,822
Belarus
You sure about that? This sure reads like a threat to me.

P9RF2bA.png
Again, I'm not really sure you know what "endorsing harassment" means. This tweet wasn't it lol.
 

Reven Wolf

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,563
While I only did some minor moderation work for him back in the days of WoWRadio, I've never met someone who rose so quickly and managed to keep grounded with reality and truly care about those around him. I think a lot of people got mixed up in the GamerGate scenario before it got pushed into the way of a hate movement, and I'll risk the backlash of saying that I was also there, under the misguided guise of it being a movement for journalism. I withdrew support, statements, etc. after realizing what it had become and genuinely don't stand behind the actions of that group. As someone who cared so deeply about the media that he worked with, I can't blame him for doing so as well, and he certainly pulled back. Everyone will say something dumb, but if you ever had the chance to meet him, needed help, advice, a general push in the right direction, despite him dealing with his own problems was always incredibly motivational and genuine. It has been a while since I last talked to him, conversations dropped significantly after WoW Radios closure, but I never stopped looking up to someone who did so much for helping make being a big nerd playing video games more culturally accepted and helping people realize the talent some of these guys have, especially in the SC2 scene.

He is absolutely well deserving of being inducted into an esports hall of fame. Rest easy, John.

Edit: I suppose I should say before anything gets taken from this that I have not and never will condone or participate in the harassment of anyone, regardless of gender, race, sexuality, position in life, etc.
This pretty much lines up with a lot of other people's accounts I've seen about TB.

I'm definitely not surprised this post has generally been ignored, but it seems pretty clear that the consensus in this thread is that a person can only be an awful person or a saint, with absolutely no middle ground.

Honestly it's frustrating but happens to literally every notable public figure. They're either viewed as saints or monsters with no real look at the when history of the person.
 

xolsec

Member
Feb 18, 2018
1,685
Why was this guy relevant in the gaming industry? All I remember is he was a troll. I'm sure I'm missing something positive.

( I'm talking about his relationship to gaming, no idea what the guy did otherwise )
 

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,741
Canada
I just noticed. Even his twitter bio endorses rewriting his history.

""As a man, I'm flesh & blood. I can be ignored. I can be destroyed. But as a symbol, I can be incorruptible. I can be everlasting.""
It's so dumb. He's bastardising a Batman Begins quote about Batman trying to inspire the people of his city fighting back against the criminal and corrupt and comparing that to the "omg this fov and framerate is terrible" shit he did with his stupid ass videos.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
C'mon we all know everything has an infinite shades of gray just to support the amount of bullshit we need at any given time.

Also TIL that once you die, you are forgiven for everything you did while you were alive. Especially if you are loving husband. So I expect that we rally around this and finally stop hating Adolf Hitler, he's dead now and he was a loving husband for Eva Braun. What a great guy Adolf Hitler was, we should really celebrate him by giving him a Nobel Peace Prize.

Hey, Adolf Hitler also was vegetarian and famously said the level of civilization a nation holds can be determined by looking at how well they treat animals. So I guess Hitler was a dope guy that helped animal rights!

And he was a painter, don't forget that! Can an artistic soul truly be evil?

How old are y'all? Do you think this kind of hyperbole is salient to the discussion or are you just grasping for what you think is the most extreme allegory because you have no other way to discuss what you feel?

TB was a lot of things, but he wasn't Hitler. The celebration of the good things he did is not in any way comparable to a celebration of Hitler. Anyone embracing this allegory is at the very least wholly uncreative, at the most, ignorant of both recent and more distant history. Before you continue to post in such a way, please consider how stupid these kind of comparisons make you look to anyone who has any kind of knowledge on these subjects.

MORE TO THE POINT

TB's character has been rightly examined in total. When you have someone as influential as he was, you have to take the bad with the good. As many good things he was able to produce and as many people in need he was able to help, he also at least tangentially supported an extremely problematic hate movement and when he did all of his influence came with him. That's the problem when you are elevated to the point he was, this kind of support is magnified. In the end, however, it was just a small part of who he was and what he was able to accomplish in life. Celebrating his accomplishments with a posthumous award such as this does not in any way denigrate the victims of gamergate or diminish the role he played.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
Why was this guy relevant in the gaming industry? All I remember is he was a troll. I'm sure I'm missing something positive.

( I'm talking about his relationship to gaming, no idea what the guy did otherwise )

His big contribution to gaming is being the biggest name attached to Gamergate that helped catapult them into wider popularity and made them the most successful alt-right movement to date at that time. He never really apologized for it or for what he was involved in either so, yea. Troll is about right.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
I always wondered about this. The first time I saw that term pop up was about journalists getting free travel, lodging, or just a console for free from publishers which in turn made them see the game more favourable, which is easy with a nice sponsored hotel room and stuff.

The first time I saw someone use that term was some journalist writing about gamers being trash in response to that. Then the typical witchhunts happened, journalists that had nothing to do with the sponsored things got accused over nothing, some journalists fired back with the whole "gamers are a lost cause" and whatnot, and at some point a lot of mysoginist assholes had an excuse to shit on female gaming journalists under the guise of "ethics in gaming journalism".

That's how I remember it. So yeah, at the very start it was indeed about that. It's just that the alt-right (that wasn't called that back then) hijacked the whole thing rather quickly like they do with a shitton of other things as well.
So #gamergate was always about mysoginist fuckwits, "ethics in gaming journalism" wasn't. I remember those discussions, the problem was that a lot of folks arguing for those ethics didn't realize the whole topic already got hijacked by incels and co.

Even since the first days of gamergate, when people pretended to be talkng about ethics, we got secret chats of people behind the movement talking about how to manipulate the narrative they've been displaying about ethics and journalism to attack Zoe. Anyone that took a lot at the movement before it went big with the "ethics in journalism" in outlets or forums like GAF knows what was the true intention in the movement, and how they used that mantra to hide it (before the amount of incels were too big that they couldn't just hide it anymore). I mean the movement literally started with attacks to Zoe for a review that didnt' exist.

Tell me, why they never throw shit at the big outlets like IGN for big inflated scores? they always targeted small outlets or the ones that already saw their bullshit a mile away.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,495
Christ, some of you fucking people.

Some of you people are genuine vultures. What do some of your comments accomplish, exactly, except for the visceral feel of taking a dump from on high on a person you seem to hate?

Because every time someone praises a person who made people fear his powerful influence turning their way, it reasonably makes my blood boil a bit.

I think the TB situation with GG is far too simplified than what people actually give credit for, especially in these threads which instantly turn to shit.

TB, for better or worse, always criticized gaming journalism. He had so for years and years before GG blew up. When GG came around he, unfortunately, legitimized it due to that inherent distrust of the media, ignoring the sexism and false hoods the actual story presented. He didn't do enough to amend for what GG turned into and his roll in giving a hate movement cover.

This is mainly because TB was pretty good at covering games, and really fucking bad at anything related to intersecting issues in gaming culture. His hot takes and lack of understanding on basic concepts made him insufferable for lots of contemporary issues, which was part of the reason I stopped listening to him. He liked to build straw mans and get angry when people called him out. Almost reminds me of Colin Moriarty, someone I also enjoyed for his contrarian views but have ran away from due to his crazy train ride the last few years.

It sucks because TB did do a lot of important things. Guy was one of the key players in the SOPA fiasco, and obviously what he's being remembered for in this situation which is his roll in getting so many people in the west interested in SC2 competitive play.

Enough with the bolded. Sorry to focus on you because it's not just you, but: it did not turn into anything. It was that from day 1. Fuck, it was that from day like... -12.

He knew about it. He commented on some of it. He just cared more about supporting their inane whining about journalism than not supporting their harassment. And that's at best, compared to signal boosting it or letting his many many followers go at someone.

TB was so f**king naive when it came to Gamergate and trying to talk about gaming journalism for real, but you are silly if you believe he actually supported harassment towards women in the industry and he was "part of the movement".

He talked with GG people about games journalism ergo he hates women and he is a bigot. Eh.

He deserves that. Made so much for StarCraft 2.

He wasn't fucking naive. He commented on those women directly too.

Even at best, he wasn't ignorant of the fact that he was helping people who were harassing women, he just didn't care. He cared more about his own goals than that his actions helped more women get harassed, especially when he was signal boosting people involved.

But he backed away from GG, check post #121.

What can you do? You guys won't even bother to research things a bit, you just see that single tweet being brought up over and over again and you already made up your minds about him. A lot of shit happened between that tweet and him dying, one of them is him distancing himself away from GG.

It's like some of you have never heard of redemption, very few people are above it.

He never truly backed away from GG, nor did he ever redeem himself.

You can't just say that when the situation's so bad that the people he hurt are harassed by his fans whenever they bring it up.

Very cool and deserved. The gaming community misses you TB.

I don't

Disgusting
/s
Truthfully, I think it's incredibly disgusting insulting someone when he's not here to defend, so it's pretty insane seeing all this hate against John.

I'm happy ESL doesn't give two fucks about this type of comments.

When were they ever able to discuss this?

Fans like you love to go on about respecting the dead, but prior to that when people did speak up, the line was about attacking someone with cancer... which predated him doing this, so what are you supposed to do? And meanwhile, there's the pretty obvious reason of not speaking up before now: getting harassed more.

Don't worry, though, his fans come out in droves to harass anyone who speaks up about what he did on Twitter so I think he'll be fine.

People shouldn't receive death threats and other harassment. There are plenty of shitheads on the internet who harass and threaten people, but TB wasn't one of them.

Except: he was.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,316
This pretty much lines up with a lot of other people's accounts I've seen about TB.

I'm definitely not surprised this post has generally been ignored, but it seems pretty clear that the consensus in this thread is that a person can only be an awful person or a saint, with absolutely no middle ground.

Honestly it's frustrating but happens to literally every notable public figure. They're either viewed as saints or monsters with no real look at the when history of the person.

The thruth is the vast majority of us are both saints and monsters.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
His big contribution to gaming is being the biggest name attached to Gamergate that helped catapult them into wider popularity and made them the most successful alt-right movement to date at that time. He never really apologized for it or for what he was involved in either so, yea. Troll is about right.

This is pretty ahistorical. TB was widely influential long before his tepid support of gamergate. Which is largely the problem.
 

shan780

The Fallen
Nov 2, 2017
2,566
UK
didn't he eventually move away from all the gamergate stuff? he was extremely anti-trump, and I seem to remember him calling a guy out for making a transphobic joke at a con
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,359
He had several LGBTQ+ Guests on his Podcast - what an awful human being
He tweeted anti-Trump rhetoric - what an awful human being
He kicked out an asshole that spouted homophobic rhetoric on a panel he was part of while on a Convention - what an awful human being

right?
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
It literally started with harassing a woman because her ex accused her of sleeping with reviewers for good reviews. It was always a hate movement. It wasn't even hijacked. They just came up with defense after defense to help trick people to their side on 4/8 chan and KiA.
Again, the term gamergate is a result from those reprehensible actions, but the "I'm talking about ethics in gaming journalism" was something that was a thing before that whole shit happened, got hijacked by the gamergaters and then used as a catchphrase to riciule their MO. I'm pretty sure I saw those discussions about journalsist basically getting 3 days at a nice hotel paid by publishers which in turn could influence the opinion they had on the game way before the whole gamergate thing blew up.
 

Oligarchenemy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,332
He had several LGBTQ+ Guests on his Podcast - what an awful human being
He tweeted anti-Trump rhetoric - what an awful human being
He kicked out an asshole that spouted homophobic rhetoric on a panel he was part of while on a Convention - what an awful human being

right?

Remember that time he said death threats weren't credible because she was still breathing? Good people do that, right?
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
didn't he eventually move away from all the gamergate stuff? he was extremely anti-trump, and I seem to remember him calling a guy out for making a transphobic joke at a con

It wasn't even "eventually", he was fairly quick to castigate the overall movement but clung desperately to the "ethics in game journalism" idea, which made his break from gamergate have a longer tail than it should.
 

MrNelson

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,356
Fucking gross

Regardless of what he did for the community, none of that shit negates his role in the early days of GamerGate

That there are still people in this thread going to bat for him despite enabling a hate movement is fucking depressing.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
This is pretty ahistorical. TB was widely influential long before his tepid support of gamergate. Which is largely the problem.

I'm merely saying what he should be remembered for. He helped a harassment campaign get into the mainstream in a way they wouldn't have without a name like his. Sic'd his followers onto people and at best outright didn't fucking care that he was enabling harassment and endangerment to the lives of women and minorities. Never apologized or moved away from it either. It's disgusting to me how much people want to rewrite his history. It wasn't tepid. It's not ahistorical. It's what it flat out is here.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Even since the first days of gamergate, when people pretended to be talkng about ethics, we got secret chats of people behind the movement talking about how to manipulate the narrative they've been displaying about ethics and journalism to attack Zoe. Anyone that took a lot at the movement before it went big with the "ethics in journalism" in outlets or forums like GAF knows what was the true intention in the movement, and how they used that mantra to hide it (before the amount of incels were too big that they couldn't just hide it anymore). I mean the movement literally started with attacks to Zoe for a review that didnt' exist.

Tell me, why they never throw shit at the big outlets like IGN for big inflated scores? they always targeted small outlets or the ones that already saw their bullshit a mile away.
I'm not saying they didn't hijack the whole debate, all I'm saying is that that debate was a thing before they used it to get their hateful agenda going. I'm pretty sure there were discussions about journalists, including IGN, getting some flight to an island or some shit to preview a game (I don't even know anymore, Assasins Creed or Far Cry or something?) and people, including Total Biscuit, getting mad over that. I'm not sure whethter that was a movement back then, but it had nothing to do with Zoe or anyone else in particular at that point.
 

Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091
Like I can get why people respect this guy and think this accolade is merited but I don't get why people are dismissing the controversies surrounding TB when there's so much out there that isn't so easily handwaved away. Like that one about Anita's death threats, he apologised for it apparently later on and OK it's not an actual death threat from him but come on if I was even close to associating with a hate group that did those things on the regular I would make absolutely, truly, indisputably and 100% sure that I did not even come close to endorsing or legitimising that kind of disgusting and unforgivable behaviour even 1 time- the fact that he was not so careful at all to me at least shows that his priorities were all wrong and that a lot of the stuff brought up ITT deserves to never be forgotten. He clearly brought it upon himself.
 

Deleted member 2172

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,577
He's literally telling his audience to do whatever they want and that this person harassed them.
TB did this kind of thing a lot to sic his followers onto people.
If you literally open the image, you can see it's someone on twitter talking about TB's audience: "90% dulltards" (what the hell does that word even mean)

I don't think it's out of the question that totalbiscuits fans get to defend themselves in this situation. TB did not say "go harass this guy and ruin his life"

I swear this forum throws the word "harassment" around way too casually.
 

Yikes

Member
Oct 18, 2018
13
He was a one of a kind force of nature within the field he excelled in; but that field wasn't eSports. Not a great inductee I would say.
 

Hoot

Member
Nov 12, 2017
2,107
He had several LGBTQ+ Guests on his Podcast - what an awful human being
He tweeted anti-Trump rhetoric - what an awful human being
He kicked out an asshole that spouted homophobic rhetoric on a panel he was part of while on a Convention - what an awful human being

right?

"he said something good once, meaning he never ever did anything bad"

Also it's hilarious you mention that last one, since he then used that as brownie points to go after said friend (Laura K), after Laura K amended her article about him to point out he was part of gamergate. He basically threw her under the bus and severed all contacts with her on the spot. What a great friend.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,495
Fucking gross

Regardless of what he did for the community, none of that shit negates his role in the early days of GamerGate

That there are still people in this thread going to bat for him despite enabling a hate movement is fucking depressing.

Just a small correction, because I agree with you otherwise but want to push back against this in general: I wouldn't say early days. That's how people like to frame his involvement but it was not the case.

It's more like early years.
 

xolsec

Member
Feb 18, 2018
1,685
His big contribution to gaming is being the biggest name attached to Gamergate that helped catapult them into wider popularity and made them the most successful alt-right movement to date at that time. He never really apologized for it or for what he was involved in either so, yea. Troll is about right.

That's what I remember. Don't get me wrong, he could have been the most extraordinary human being in real life, it's just that I don't know anything outside of the troll stuff.
 

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
User Banned (1 Week): Posting in bad faith; dismissing a harassment campaign; prior infractions.
"he said something good once, meaning he never ever did anything bad"

Also it's hilarious you mention that last one, since he then used that as brownie points to go after said friend (Laura K), after Laura K amended her article about him to point out he was part of gamergate. He basically threw her under the bus and severed all contacts with her on the spot. What a great friend.
"He said something bad once, meaning he never did anything good".
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
If you literally open the image, you can see it's someone on twitter talking about TB's audience: "90% dulltards" (what the hell does that word even mean)

I don't think it's out of the question that totalbiscuits fans get to defend themselves in this situation. TB did not say "go harass this guy and ruin his life"

I swear this forum throws the word "harassment" around way too casually.

Really now. Really now.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
I'm not saying they didn't hijack the whole debate, all I'm saying is that that debate was a thing before they used it to get their hateful agenda going. I'm pretty sure there were discussions about journalists, including IGN, getting some flight to an island or some shit to preview a game (I don't even know anymore, Assasins Creed or Far Cry or something?) and people, including Total Biscuit, getting mad over that.

What I say is that no one hijacked it, it was the narrative behind the people that started Gamergate. Now, if people got fooled about that false pretence, it happened, yeah. But the people behind Gamergate had already attacking women minorities and everyone that wasn't their ideal of "nerd club" as an objective.

Mind you I'm talking about Gamergate, that random people debated about ethics in journalism way before (and nowadays) is another story, just talking purely about the movement named Gamergate here.
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,337
If you literally open the image, you can see it's someone on twitter talking about TB's audience: "90% dulltards" (what the hell does that word even mean)

I don't think it's out of the question that totalbiscuits fans get to defend themselves in this situation. TB did not say "go harass this guy and ruin his life"

I swear this forum throws the word "harassment" around way too casually.
This is so incredibly naive. There are plenty of internet personalities that don't sic their audiences on people who post shit about them on twitter. There is no other word for it than leading a harassment campaign.
 

I Don't Like

Member
Dec 11, 2017
14,907
A douche bag (and non-player at that) being inducted to a "hall of fame" for fucking esports.

Jesus Christ.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
I'm merely saying what he should be remembered for. He helped a harassment campaign get into the mainstream in a way they wouldn't have without a name like his. Sic'd his followers onto people and at best outright didn't fucking care that he was enabling harassment and endangerment to the lives of women and minorities. Never apologized or moved away from it either. It's disgusting to me how much people want to rewrite his history. It wasn't tepid. It's not ahistorical. It's what it flat out is here.

This is also not correct in any way. Gamergate had gained quite a lot of steam without his support and was already garnering attention from the likes of Yiannopoulos, his support certainly made it seem more legitimate than it ever was, but it would have continued on without him because at it's base gamergate was about white supremacy and misogyny in the gaming community. The sad truth is that these things were and are already mainstream in large swaths of the gaming community. It's unfortunate that he used his influence to lend it credence, but despite what you say here he did walk back his support fairly quickly. You're correct though that it should be remembered he stood by for too long as gamergate harassed and made hell for many people.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.