John McCain will stop receiving care for his brain cancer, entering his final days

[NorthandSouth]

He is an honourable and decent man. One of the very few US politicians with international respect, in spite of political differences. Even my Canadian- Pakistani parents (who soundly disapprove of most US politicians and policy) were appalled at how Trump and his ilk could dare to say anything disrespectful to such a gentleman.

John McCain's legacy will always be that he is a dignified and principled patriot for his country. I sincerely hope the very best for him, and pray that his family stays strong.

 

[Skelepuzzle]

I have nothing nice to say about the man who "joked" about bombing Iran after we killed over a hundred thousand Iraqi civilians. Nor did he feel genuine sympathy for the families who lost people due to gun violence, and failed to show a basic level of respect to at least one mother.

Cancer does suck though.

 

[nomis]

posts of the ilk that "he may be disagreeable but he served his country, good man" etc. are more morally reprehensible than someone hooting with glee at his impending doom

bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb iran

 

[chandoog]

Can't say I agree with most of is philosophies but I hope he has a peaceful passing.

 

[Deleted member 4021]

He is an honourable and decent man. One of the very few US politicians with international respect, in spite of political differences. Even my Canadian- Pakistani parents (who soundly disapprove of most US politicians and policy) were appalled at how Trump and his ilk could dare to say anything disrespectful to such a gentleman.

John McCain's legacy will always be that he is a dignified and principled patriot for his country. I sincerely hope the very best for him, and pray that his family stays strong.

Click to shrink...

And this is how whitewashing happens. Posts like this are perfectly fine, and I'm not allowed to respond with facts because that would be mean and contrary to respectability politics.

 

[Deleted member 22490]

And this is how whitewashing happens. Posts like this are perfectly fine, and I'm not allowed to respond with facts because that would be mean and contrary to respectability politics.

Click to shrink...

Remember, please have tact and grace when talking about a man who was really into war.

 

[Hobbesian Thudercat]

I guess because the GOP was far gone even then?

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Uh, no, because he was responding directly to the woman's charge of him being Arab

 

[Mona]

This thread had to be rebooted too? Era literally can't help themselves

Anyway, condolences to those closest to him

 

[Deleted member 4212]

An honorable and decent warmonger racist. A true American. Remember that time he told that lady that Obama wasn't an Arab? Class act.

"In prison, I fell in love with my country..."
"At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c***!"
"Americans never quit"
"I hate the g***s"

Gentleman if ever there was one.

 

[Inugami]

This thread had to be rebooted too? Era literally can't help themselves

Anyway, condolences to those closest to him

Click to shrink...

It's like people have strong opinions about a man who's political life caused them or people they know harm in some way.

 

[zero_suit]

Uh, no, because he was responding directly to the woman's charge of him being Arab

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Getting praise over that shows how low the standards are for Republicans.

 

[nomis]

And this is how whitewashing happens. Posts like this are perfectly fine, and I'm not allowed to respond with facts because that would be mean and contrary to respectability politics.

Click to shrink...

his legacy may get posthumously buffed by discourse nerds but at least he can't add any more corpses to his figurative pile of vietnamese and iraqis

 

[peyrin]

If nothing else, are we allowed to call him out for blatantly putting party over country by not stepping down in December?

 

[Teiresias]

I mean the point is for people to wish condelences or pay respects, the mod note even mentioned it. People can wait for another thread down the road to talk about his bad policies. It's not that hard to 'not' say something

Click to shrink...

So McCain will get at least two threads where everyone is expected to tip-toe around his political legacy then, because he's not dead yet, so this isn't a condolences thread. There's bound to be a "new news, new thread" when he actually passes away.

 

[Mona]

It's like people have strong opinions about a man who's political life caused them or people they know harm in some way.

Click to shrink...

And they can't help but ignore the mods once again to share them

 

[Inugami]

And they can't help but ignore the mods once again to share them

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Then be the bigger person and report someone if you think they broke the rules and then move on. You can't come in and stoke a fire and then flee as if you weren't trying to instigate a situation.

 

[Mona]

Then be the bigger person and report someone if you think they broke the rules and then move on. You can't come in and stoke a fire and then flee as if you weren't trying to instigate a situation.

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I'm not fleeing, all I did was point out that once again era literally cannot help themselves, and I stand by it

 

[Hierophant]

What is even the value of the forced sense of grace and sympathy for McCain? A sense of decency? I'm sure John "I hate the Gooks" McCain was very decent to the Vietnamese children he napalmed. He acts with a decorum and grace in his words but his actions show that he is just as horrible as the rest of them. It betrays the typical liberal response where if someone acts "respectable", they are allowed to do whatever the hell they want while they're in power because then politics becomes just a "difference in thought" rather than something that actually affects the lives of millions of people.

I'm not fleeing, all I did was point out that era literally cannot help themselves, and I stand by it

Click to shrink...

Yeah I stand by the fact that McCain is a deeply evil human being at best, if I get banned for this shit then so be it because you're literally banning the words of someone who was affected personally by his participation in the Vietnam war.

 

[nomis]

What is even the value of the forced sense of grace and sympathy for McCain? A sense of decency? I'm sure John "I hate the Gooks" McCain was very decent to the Vietnamese children he napalmed.

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thats that stuff from that movie right

 

[SugarNoodles]

I hope that he finds peace and his family also finds peace because even people who do bad things and inflict far more harm on the world than any of the good they've ever done deserve peace.

Peace!

 

[Coyote Starrk]

So McCain will get at least two threads where everyone is expected to tip-toe around his political legacy then, because he's not dead yet, so this isn't a condolences thread. There's bound to be a "new news, new thread" when he actually passes away.

Click to shrink...

I feel like expecting people to not come into a thread about someone dying of cancer or who has died of cancer and not talk about how awful they were isn't too much to ask. There is literally nothing stopping any of us from making a "The Legacy of John McCain" thread specifically to talk about his controversial history and life. All the staff is asking for is people not come into these types of threads and shit all over the person in question or mocking the people who would like to say a kind word about the person even if its only the bare minimum comment of "Hey I didn't agree with his policies, but I feel sorry for his family" like many people have done in this thread.


We can have a separate thread to discuss his controversial life and political history and we can have a thread of people who wanna say a few words. I don't understand why people are upset about the latter when we can obviously have the former as well. Now if the staff came out and said "Okay no criticizing him at all ever no matter what" then yeah that would be a problem. But thats not what they are doing here.

 

[NorthandSouth]

And this is how whitewashing happens. Posts like this are perfectly fine, and I'm not allowed to respond with facts because that would be mean and contrary to respectability politics.

Click to shrink...

Yes. Yes I'm afraid it would. I'm a liberal, Muslim woman, and I'm really getting tired of this need to completely demonize people by labeling them as "problematic" just to prove a political point. Nobody is "whitewashing" everything this man has said or done. Talking about his overall legacy with respect in no way negates any serious differences anyone has with his policies. And saying he is a decent man who is internationally respected is not something that should trigger you to respond in a passive aggressive manner, especially when this man is at his deathbed. If you really want to vent at what this man could have done that was SO disgusting, and SO repugnant that you feel to need to act disrespectfully in what is meant to be a commemoration thread, then by all means continue this conversation via PM. I'm waiting.


As for the "Arab comment" that everyone likes to bring up to prove some kind of point just beacuse, I think you all seriously need to self reflect on his legacy as a whole. McCain was one of the few who responded directly regarding the Muslim ban, and he also supported the Khan family when the orange shit stain had the gall to attack them. Everyone has had days when they say things in a way that could be misunderstood. McCain's act of decency in stopping racist and conspiracy theorist supporters even though those ignorants began to boo him IS a class act and shows his character. His overall comments on Muslims also show that he is nowhere near Islamophobic.

 

[Halbrand]

Sadly McCain threads bring out the worst in Era

 

[The Watcher]

I may not agree with the man's politics, but it's truly sad to see him go out like this.

 

[deepFlaw]

I feel like expecting people to not come into a thread about someone dying of cancer or who has died of cancer and not talk about how awful they were isn't too much to ask. There is literally nothing stopping any of us from making a "The Legacy of John McCain" thread specifically to talk about his controversial history and life. All the staff is asking for is people not come into these types of threads and shit all over the person in question or mocking the people who would like to say a kind word about the person even if its only the bare minimum comment of "Hey I didn't agree with his policies, but I feel sorry for his family" like many people have done in this thread.


We can have a separate thread to discuss his controversial life and political history and we can have a thread of people who wanna say a few words. I don't understand why people are upset about the latter when we can obviously have the former as well.

Click to shrink...

Please read this post. And I would ask that of the moderation team as well, please. I sincerely think it lays out how this kind of handling of these threads makes things worse.

I don't think people should say anything like that about cancer specifically, I can agree with that much. But there is a very real, if delayed, negative impact on the community when the people who actively want to us all to ignore someone's horrible actions are allowed to fester. A second thread where criticism is acceptable is much better than only this one, but allowing this kind of space is still a problem.

 

[SugarNoodles]

Yes. Yes I'm afraid it would. I'm a liberal, Muslim woman, and I'm really getting tired of this need to completely demonize people by labeling them as "problematic" just to prove a political point. Nobody is "whitewashing" everything this man has said or done. Talking about his overall legacy with respect in no way negates any serious differences anyone has with his policies. And saying he is a decent man who is internationally respected is not something that should trigger you to respond in a passive aggressive manner, especially when this man is at his deathbed. If you really want to vent at what this man could have done that was SO disgusting, and SO repugnant that you feel to need to act disrespectfully in what is meant to be a commemoration thread, then by all means continue this conversation via PM. I'm waiting.


As for the "Arab comment" that everyone likes to bring up to prove some kind of point just beacuse, I think you all seriously need to self reflect on his legacy as a whole. McCain was one of the few who responded directly regarding the Muslim ban, and he also supported the Khan family when the orange shit stain had the gall to attack them. Everyone has had days when they say things in a way that could be misunderstood. McCain's act of decency in stopping racist and conspiracy theorist supporters even though those ignorants began to boo him IS a class act and shows his decency. His overall comments on Muslims also show that he is nowhere near Islamophobic.

Click to shrink...

Talking about his legacy in a positive light makes him a role model, doesn't it? Why is it bad to make it clear that John McCain wasn't good enough by a long shot?

 

[Stiler]

Cancer is a hell of a way to go, hope he can find comfort with what time he has left and his family as well.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Yes. Yes I'm afraid it would. I'm a liberal, Muslim woman, and I'm really getting tired of this need to completely demonize people by labeling them as "problematic" just to prove a political point. Nobody is "whitewashing" everything this man has said or done. Talking about his overall legacy with respect in no way negates any serious differences anyone has with his policies. And saying he is a decent man who is internationally respected is not something that should trigger you to respond in a passive aggressive manner, especially when this man is at his deathbed. If you really want to vent at what this man could have done that was SO disgusting, and SO repugnant that you feel to need to act disrespectfully in what is meant to be a commemoration thread, then by all means continue this conversation via PM. I'm waiting.


As for the "Arab comment" that everyone likes to bring up to prove some kind of point just beacuse, I think you all seriously need to self reflect on his legacy as a whole. McCain was one of the few who responded directly regarding the Muslim ban, and he also supported the Khan family when the orange shit stain had the gall to attack them. Everyone has had days when they say things in a way that could be misunderstood. McCain's act of decency in stopping racist and conspiracy theorist supporters even though those ignorants began to boo him IS a class act and shows his decency. His overall comments on Muslims also show that he is nowhere near Islamophobic.

Click to shrink...

Actions speak louder than words and when push came to shove he kept voting along with the rest of the scumbag GOP.

Some maverick.

Oh yeah, fuck cancer.

 

[How About No]

I mean the point is for people to wish condelences or pay respects, the mod note even mentioned it. People can wait for another thread down the road to talk about his bad policies. It's not that hard to 'not' say something

Click to shrink...

I can't wait for the "you know, I think John McCain might have sucked" thread a few years down the line

 

[Coyote Starrk]

Please read this post. And I would ask that of the moderation team as well, please. I sincerely think it lays out how this kind of handling of these threads makes things worse.

I don't think people should say anything like that about cancer specifically, I can agree with that much. But there is a very real, if delayed, negative impact on the community when the people who actively want to us all to ignore someone's horrible actions are allowed to fester. A second thread where criticism is acceptable is much better than only this one, but allowing this kind of space is still a problem.

Click to shrink...

I saw that post and I still stand by what I said. There is nothing wrong with the Mods having a thread for people who wanna say a kind word. Especially when there is nothing stopping people who disagree with making a completely separate thread. Nobody in this thread is saying people have to like him or agree with him. They are simply saying a kind word about a dying man and/or his family. If you disagree then simply don't post in here and make a thread about your disagreement. There is a time and a place to discuss someone's rights and wrongs and its not in the thread about them dying of cancer. Its not a hard concept to understand.


This goes beyond just threads about the dead or dying too. The same attitude is applied over in the Gaming section. If an OT about a game is posted and you don't like the game then you don't have to post in the thread. You don't need to go into that thread and talk about how everyone else is wrong and the game is actually awful. The mods will get onto you for that as well I'm pretty sure.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Oh and re: The Obama is an Arab thing.

"I don't trust that guy, I think he's gay"

"WHAT? He's not gay, he's a good man!"

Nah, I ain't applauding that shit.

 

[NorthandSouth]

Talking about his legacy in a positive light makes him a role model, doesn't it? Why is it bad to make it clear that John McCain wasn't good enough by a long shot?

Click to shrink...

... What?

...How do you even make that jump? People talk about the positive legacy of much more controversial figures all the time... It does not automatically relegate everything they say to be scripture? It does not automatically clear them of all the charges they've had put against them in their life? And it certainly does not automatically make them role models?

Actions speak louder than words and when push came to shove he kept voting along with the rest of the scumbag GOP.

Some maverick.

Oh yeah, fuck cancer.

Click to shrink...

.... I literally didn't even say the word maverick in my post and explicitly stated that you can respect people despite political differences. I don't know why you even bothered responding when you clearly didn't read my comment.

 

[TheGhost]

I feel the same way. But, I can also understand if a Muslim found this offensive at the same time. It's good for a Republican like McCain, but, it's also not enough, he should have l said "first of all, being a Muslim doesn't make you a bad person", and went from there.

Click to shrink...

Not to excuse that type of mentality of people thinking that. But that wasn't the over all sentiment I think back then. God I'm saying that wrong. Um...it's easy to say that now, but where liberals raising that counterpoint back then? Or is this viewing life back then through today's progressives eyes.

TIME magazine didn't seem to criticize as recently as last year.
http://time.com/4866404/john-mccain-barack-obama-arab-cancer/

 

[BDS]

Allowing "safe spaces" for reactionaries to laud him after his death is what will whitewash his legacy.

I mean this isn't hypothetical. The exact same situation already happened on gaming side. After TotalBiscuit died, no one was allowed to criticize him in the thread. This resulted in the fomenting of a reactionary, GG community within resetera, who proceeded to shit up the community in threads like the Jessica Price/ArenaNet one, where a bunch of people said she deserved to get fired because she said something mean about TotalBiscuit. The poison continued to fester on gaming side and finally exploded with the transphobia/Cyberpunk threads resulting in a ton of permanent bans. This is always the legacy of respectability politics bullshit- the empowerment of abusers and the silencing of victims.

Click to shrink...

Don't have much to add to the thread other than this. But ERA administration is more concerned with maintaining advertiser dollars. Cha-ching!

 

[Heisenberg726]

Don't have much to add to the thread other than this. But ERA administration is more concerned with maintaining advertiser dollars. Cha-ching!

Click to shrink...

...Are you seriously suggesting that being respectful is only done for advertising money? I guarantee you ERA mods don't give a shit about the advertisers in scenarios like these lol.

 

[SugarNoodles]

I saw that post and I still stand by what I said. There is nothing wrong with the Mods having a thread for people who wanna say a kind word. Especially when there is nothing stopping people who disagree with making a completely separate thread. Nobody in this thread is saying people have to like him or agree with him. They are simply saying a kind word about a dying man and/or his family. If you disagree then simply don't post in here and make a thread about your disagreement. There is a time and a place to discuss someone's rights and wrongs and its not in the thread about them dying of cancer. Its not a hard concept to understand.


This goes beyond just threads about the dead or dying too. The same attitude is applied over in the Gaming section. If an OT about a game is posted and you don't like the game then you don't have to post in the thread. You don't need to go into that thread and talk about how everyone else is wrong and the game is actually awful. The mods will get onto you for that as well I'm pretty sure.

Click to shrink...

Let's get a few things straight:

1) The mods would never approve of a thread asking people to say exclusively nice things about Trump. They may have drawn a line in the sand somewhere before McCain but it's not like there's some actual principle that applies across the board.

2) This isn't just some optional matter of opinion. Peoples lives are at stake. Censoring criticism directed at someone who has done actively harmful things to other people is bad.

3). The mods in no way discourage criticism from being leveled at a game. They just don't want people antagonizing other people because if your opinion. Also: comparing discussion about a video game to discussion about a political leader doesn't really work that well.

 

[Jeffapp]

C'mon, now.



Guy wasn't perfect, but he knew where to draw the line. It's a shame he's dying and we could do a lot worse without more people of his character in the GOP.

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This is true I just wish he didn't bend over backwards for trump in his final years.

 

[Heisenberg726]

Allowing "safe spaces" for reactionaries to laud him after his death is what will whitewash his legacy.

I mean this isn't hypothetical. The exact same situation already happened on gaming side. After TotalBiscuit died, no one was allowed to criticize him in the thread. This resulted in the fomenting of a reactionary, GG community within resetera, who proceeded to shit up the community in threads like the Jessica Price/ArenaNet one, where a bunch of people said she deserved to get fired because she said something mean about TotalBiscuit. The poison continued to fester on gaming side and finally exploded with the transphobia/Cyberpunk threads resulting in a ton of permanent bans. This is always the legacy of respectability politics bullshit- the empowerment of abusers and the silencing of victims.

Click to shrink...

I'm confused, are you suggesting that people who supported TotalBiscuit are part of a transphobic GG community? I understand that there were many transphobic posts in the Cyberpunk threads and others, but it feels wrong to lay the blame on TotalBiscuit fans.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

... What?

...How do you even make that jump? People talk about the positive legacy of much more controversial figures all the time... It does not automatically relegate everything they say to be scripture? It does not automatically clear them of all the charges they've had put against them in their life? And it certainly does not automatically make them role models?



.... I literally didn't even say the word maverick in my post. I don't know why you even bothered responding when you clearly didn't read my comment.

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The maverick comment was aimed at McCain himself, as he cultivated that image carefully. All the speeches and interviews he gave that have you and others lining up to praise his decency and tolerance were in service of that image. "I'm not like the rest of the party, I'm my own man!"

Yet what did this decent, admirable, man who is deserving of all our respect do for all these years? Put party above country like the rest of the GOP.

His words mean shit.

 

[Shauni]

If nothing else, are we allowed to call him out for blatantly putting party over country by not stepping down in December?

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Apparently not, someone just got banned for it a few posts above.

 

[SugarNoodles]

... What?

...How do you even make that jump? People talk about the positive legacy of much more controversial figures all the time... It does not automatically relegate everything they say to be scripture? It does not automatically clear them of all the charges they've had put against them in their life? And it certainly does not automatically make them role models?

Click to shrink...

It shouldn't be difficult to understand how talking about positive aspects of a person's legacy but not the negative parts makes someone into a role model.

How do you think genocidal Christopher Colombus and racist founding fathers ended up being role models for hundreds of years?

 

[Jadusable]

I'm going to try and navigate this tactfully as per the mod post.

So McCain did serve our country, bravely, and I think he had a sense of duty and decency and decorum, which the modern GOP almost-entirely lacks. That is to his credit. The attacks against the man himself, and on his captivity in Vietnam, by the alt-right are a disgrace, and us liberals should aim a little higher.

I don't celebrate his death. I think that his policies as a senator, of constant war-mongering, cost lives. But unlike many "war first" American politicians McCain did serve, he saw combat, and was even captured and tortured. So while as a pacifist I oppose his policies, I recognize that he had far more credibility to argue for military intervention than many other politicians, who did not serve, or even actively avoided serving with deferments. I hope that McCain finds peace in his last days.

Click to shrink...

A very great post. Well spoken.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

Let's get a few things straight:

1) The mods would never approve of a thread asking people to say exclusively nice things about Trump. They may have drawn a line in the sand somewhere before McCain but it's not like there's some actual principle that applies across the board.

Click to shrink...

About Trump in general? Hell no. They would never expect that. If Trump dropped dead of a stroke tomorrow then yeah I am pretty sure they would expect some kind of decorum. They have been fairly explicit about their rules regarding the death of a notable person and how it is to be treated here and I have to say that I agree with it now. And I say that as someone who hates Trump and his crooked as fuck family with every fiber of my being. Hell I was banned 3 days for wishing that he would die in a fire earlier this year. If someone has died and there is a thread of people saying a few words for the person or their family and you don't wanna say something then thats fine. Nobody is making you say anything and nobody is making you agree with them. There is no need to derail that thread when you could simply make a thread dedicated to your grievances about the person in question.

 

[NorthandSouth]

The maverick comment was aimed at McCain himself, as he cultivated that image carefully. All the speeches and interviews he gave that have you and others lining up to praise his decency and tolerance were in service of that image. "I'm not like the rest of the party, I'm my own man!"

Yet what did this decent, admirable, man who is deserving of all our respect do for all these years? Put party above country like the rest of the GOP.

His words mean shit.

Click to shrink...

I cannot recall, nor can I find one instance where this man voted in a way that was Islamophobic. Unless you have a concrete example, I think you should stop conflating routine political differences with the accusation that he hated Muslims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_VfGjzwPOs

Again, I have no idea why you decided to respond to my post re: his comments on Arabs when your replies have absolutely nothing to do with that.

If you've got a problem with his "maverick" label and want to start bashing this man for that in a thread announcing the end stage to his illness, I think you need to reconsider 1) why you responded to my post and 2) if this thread truly would be the right place to address that

 

[deepFlaw]

...Are you seriously suggesting that being respectful is only done for advertising money? I guarantee you ERA mods don't give a shit about the advertisers in scenarios like these lol.

Click to shrink...

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong - and this is sorta off topic to begin with - but my understanding is that some of the shutting down of people wishing for (absolutely horrible, life-ruining) public figures' deaths is due to that?

I'm confused, are you suggesting that people who supported TotalBiscuit are part of a transphobic GG community? I understand that there were many transphobic posts in the Cyberpunk threads and others, but it feels wrong to lay the blame on TotalBiscuit fans.

Click to shrink...

The connection from people not being able to discuss him critically (whether due to moderation of the people giving the criticism or because people praising him were free to drive those critical out of the thread) to allowing people to throw the slightest criticism of him around as a sign of somehow being a moral failing is pretty clear. As TB fostered the GG community within his fans, I'd say anyone who actively wants criticism of him silenced is either supporting GG, or just selfish enough to prioritize that they liked his videos (and what they meant to him, sure) over allowing the people he hurt to express their feelings.

I'd say the connection to the Cyberpunk thread is less clear, but giving those kinds of people any ground is going to end up going badly. There was talk in the Cyberpunk thread of beliefs that let communities "get their foot in the door" - bad actors finding what's considered acceptable enough, so they can start lowering standards from there - and I think that applies here.

(And, I will admit that personally - as someone who watched it be handled repeatedly badly in threads leading up to his death, I'm still a bit bitter about it.)

 

[Soapbox Killer]

I'll never speak to what is in a man heart without speaking to him face to face. He would appear to be a man of conviction that served the people of Arizona and U.S Senate well. Where I come from you don't have to agree with a man to respect him. I respect John McCain.

 

[Harry Potter Obama]

And this is how whitewashing happens. Posts like this are perfectly fine, and I'm not allowed to respond with facts because that would be mean and contrary to respectability politics.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I'm really disappointed with Era's moderation team on this one. I know it's supposed to be this kind of "we take the high ground" stuff, but it stifles discussion. And honestly? I think the concept of someone demanding respect just because they died/are dying is misguided at best and dangerous at worst.

 

[Typhon]

It shouldn't be difficult to understand how talking about positive aspects of a person's legacy but not the negative parts makes someone into a role model.

How do you think genocidal Christopher Colombus and racist founding fathers ended up being role models for hundreds of years?

Click to shrink...

So we can only talk about people individuals like McCain in the negative because someone, somewhere might latch on to any positive aspects? If Bush Jr died to tomorrow and I mentioned his contributions to AIDS care in Africa that would offend you? We shouldn't whitewash history but we should also remember people for who they were in all aspects, good and bad.

 

[JetmanJay]

Much respect for this man. One of my distant cousins on my dad's side of the family was a fighter pilot, got shot down, and was in a cell in a Vietnamese prison next to McCain. Said he had an iron will, didn't crack, and didn't leave that fucked up prison until all of his other cell mates were free and clear.

While I think he could have made better political choices in life, I'll always remember him as a bad ass fighter pilot who helped keep my family sane enough to get out of that place. And that 'thumbs down fuck you' vote against other Republicans on healthcare.

Go down fighting sir! <salute>

 

[Futureman]

As much as people on the left don't like McCain, it must be kind of wild for him to go out with Trump in power and not knowing the fate of the Republican party and this country. These next few years will probably go down as the most interesting political times of our lives.