John Wayne - “I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility.”

neon_dream · Feb 19, 2019

John Wayne is fading from the cultural memory. His movies haven't stood the test of time. No one gives a shit about him now except people over 70 years old. In 50 years he'll be a footnote in movie history.

I do think the quotes are interesting in how they can inform us today, but as for the man, he's dead and buried.

Possum Armada · Feb 19, 2019

lowmelody said:
From the "Wow someone was racist in the 70's, who cares" to the "He had Latina wives, tho" responses, there is some simple bullshit up in here.

Yep.

Kidgalactus · Feb 19, 2019

Ash735 said:
I feel like the current generation needs better wording for this stuff, the whole "just found", "shocking reveal", etc over information that's known and been in the public really makes it feel like we've been raised by click bait tactics.

'Today I learned' works pretty well.

OrdinaryPrime · Feb 19, 2019

Biggersmaller said:
Yes. And some of the Beatles hit women. Tupac was a rapist. And Miles Davis was horribly abusive.

I didn't know about Miles Davis. Sucks :/.

Biggersmaller said:
Sure. But unless we are discovering new information about a celebrity that died 40 years ago, don't be suprised when people respond with "and...who gives a shit?".

I get the impression the point of some of these threads is to start some sort of "woke" dick measuring contest.

"You only hate John Wayne? WELL, after my father died last week, I spoke at his funeral and told everyone I burned the James Brown memorabilia I inherited."

This is something I've learned. You cannot assume everyone has the same knowledge you do. Sure some of it is probably some sort of wokeness contest, but if John Wayne's attitudes were the reflection of many Americans at the time, I think it's okay to be like "reminder, dude was a piece of shit" especially for a younger generation who doesn't even know who John Wayne is. At some point, that actor is going to be Ronald Reagan after all.

Kidgalactus said:
'Today I learned' works pretty well.

"15 year old kid TOTALLY DESTROYS John Wayne" is how I prefer it on YouTube these days.

Deleted member 1248 · Feb 19, 2019

Todays kids are all like "Hold up, grandma and grandpa... y'all ain't shit for letting all this ride" and I love it.

Masquerader · Feb 19, 2019

nightstalker962 said:
Clint Eastwood is also a shithead.

True, but I read that he stopped working with Sergio Leone because of his generous portrayal of the Confederacy in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. By that metric, John Wayne was a FAR worse person.

Elegant Weapon · Feb 19, 2019

wokeness contest = sharing an old playboy article that some red pill doesn't like

Secondspace · Feb 19, 2019

It's worth reminding people how openly racist a huge film star could be in my lifetime.

I also wonder what he he thought but didn't say.

neon_dream · Feb 19, 2019

The Kree said:
Todays kids are all like "Hold up, grandma and grandpa... y'all ain't shit for letting all this ride" and I love it.

"Grandma, why didn't you tear down the white male patriarchy?"

People have been fighting for equality for a long, long time, for generations. It's taken a lot of work just to get to where we are.

ViewtifulJC · Feb 19, 2019

neon_dream said:
John Wayne is fading from the cultural memory. His movies haven't stood the test of time.

I mean the Searchers is still hailed as one of the greatest films of all time but go off

NecroTechno · Feb 19, 2019

*PJW voice* Imagine my shock.

krazen · Feb 19, 2019

Even though its old news, I love the fact its getting resurrected because lord knows people viewed racism back then as simply, "They didn't know better"...which you see trotted out even today. Also, for the fact that Wayne represents an American icon so this is going to be news for many people.

While Lord knows America has a waaaaays to go to right its racist ship, the reason we are imho ahead of the curve when it comes to discussing these issues is the fact that there's a space to call out racist shit where in othr countries it would be seen as divisive as they keep their systemic racism in place.

Kinggroin · Feb 19, 2019

There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves.

Wonder if he'd be fine with, ideologically speaking, immigrants coming through our borders then.

neon_dream · Feb 19, 2019

ViewtifulJC said:
I mean the Searchers is still hailed as one of the greatest films of all time but go off

The Searchers? When's the last time anyone had a The Searchers conversation? I can't even remember the last time I had a John Wayne conversation.

Which is the point of that first portion of my post. As time moves on so does cultural memory. Movies from 50 years ago aren't as relevant when we have Trump to deal with today.

And that leads into the second part of my post: the quotes are interesting in informing us of mindsets today but time is already washing John Wayne from the face of history. In not long, he'll be a name carved on a wall somewhere no-one cares about.

jerf · Feb 19, 2019

Marvie said:
The fact that John Wayne was a piece of shit has been out there for a long time.

A looooong time. Fake ass couldn't even really ride horses.

angelgrievous · Feb 19, 2019

neon_dream said:
The Searchers? When's the last time anyone had a The Searchers conversation? I can't even remember the last time I had a John Wayne conversation.

Which is the point of that first portion of my post. As time moves on so does cultural memory. Movies from 50 years ago aren't as relevant when we have Trump to deal with today.

And that leads into the second part of my post: the quotes are interesting in informing us of mindsets today but time is already washing John Wayne from the face of history. In not long, he'll be a name carved on a wall somewhere no-one cares about.

They stopped showing "The Searchers" in film school/class? It was a movie I had to write a paper on in 2005.

Kthulhu · Feb 19, 2019

I wouldn't be surprised if most white people felt similar around that time. The civil rights act wasn't even 10 years old yet. It's not like all the racists stopped hating black people.

Elegant Weapon · Feb 19, 2019

neon_dream said:
The Searchers? When's the last time anyone had a The Searchers conversation? I can't even remember the last time I had a John Wayne conversation.

Which is the point of that first portion of my post. As time moves on so does cultural memory. Movies from 50 years ago aren't as relevant when we have Trump to deal with today.

And that leads into the second part of my post: the quotes are interesting in informing us of mindsets today but time is already washing John Wayne from the face of history. In not long, he'll be a name carved on a wall somewhere no-one cares about.

I watched the Searchers a few months back. It's one of the most important films in it's genre.

DiscoPizza · Feb 19, 2019

I always had a feeling that he was horrible but never paid enough attention to look it up. Not everyone knows everything so the thread whining is beyond obnoxious. How hard is it to scroll past a thread you have no interest in discussing? Or just use the ignore feature.

I've never watched a full movie of his but he seemed to have no range at all and always took jingoistic roles. Maybe he's not mentioned as much anymore but I always remember him considered a Hollywood legend. I didn't know just how awful he was.

HotHamBoy · Feb 19, 2019

WAYNE: I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them, if that's what you're asking. Our so-called stealing of this country from them was just a matter of survival. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves.

Weird, wild stuff.

ViewtifulJC · Feb 19, 2019

Elegant Weapon said:
I watched the Searchers a few months back. It's one of the most important films in it's genre.

It's a great film that's been highly respected for over half a century, and 50 years from now when most of today's cinema is forgotten it'll still be respected. let's stop pretending like John Wayne is some random footnote in cinema history because he said some bad things 50 years ago as an old man. The very fact that's it's been brought up at all puts pad to that notion.

Hyun Sai · Feb 19, 2019

Whoah , I thought for a moment John Wayne was still alive and making the news...

Elegant Weapon · Feb 19, 2019

ViewtifulJC said:
It's a great film that's been highly respected for over half a century, and 50 years from now when most of today's cinema is forgotten it'll still be respected. let's stop pretending like John Wayne is some random footnote in cinema history because he said some bad things 50 years ago as an old man. The very fact that's it's been brought up at all puts pad to that notion.

Right, he's an significant figure in American cinema history and that shouldn't mean his words and actions should be swept under the rug or made excuses for

LosDaddie · Feb 19, 2019

Gouty said:
Dig him up! Dig him up!

Pretty much, yes.

The only time I ever see anything John Wayne related is some racist meme

Ultima_5 · Feb 19, 2019

I wish there was an article written discussing the interview in light of todays political climate. There's a lot of interesting ties and lineages in what he said which pertains to what we're dealing with today

Instead. Some no one on twitter, just reposted it for twitter brownie points and now people have to argue why its being brought up now instead of what its about and how it applies to us and is relevant still.

Empyrean Cocytus · Feb 19, 2019

Charles Lindbergh was an actual Nazi.

lunarworks · Feb 19, 2019

There's a reason John Wayne is up there with Ronald Reagan as a cherished icon of American conservatism.

neon_dream · Feb 19, 2019

angelgrievous said:
They stopped showing "The Searchers" in film school/class? It was a movie I had to write a paper on in 2005.

Fair enough, in the specific context of movie history.

How relevant is John Wayne today in a cultural conversation? How many 18 year olds know or care who John Wayne is? Fast forward 20 years. Where will John Wayne be in the cultural consciousness of a teenager from New York? Fast forward 50 years.

Like I said, I think the quotes are interesting. John Wayne may be dead and buried and, soon, forgotten by the vast majority of Americans but how the mindset informs us today is valuable.

Gustaf · Feb 19, 2019

so the quote on the thread title says that he believes white should govern until the "blacks" have proven themselves to be capable of governing? or something like that?

i mean, who told hime the "whites" are capable? lol

Forearms · Feb 19, 2019

Josh5890 said:
I mean yeah this doesn't surprise me. He is a great actor and is an important part of cinema history but his politics were nothing to model after.

Uhhhh... racism isn't politics. It's racism.

Verelios · Feb 19, 2019

Riboflavin said:
Latina.

The guy was a well-known right-wing lunatic and douchebag so this isn't surprising at all.

KunaiDrilla said:
They are Latina. White Latina's. Not latinx. Don't put labels on people who do not identify as Latinx. It is very disrespectful. Use that to people who identify as Latinx. Seeing people call me that online when they know I'm Latino and identify as such is annoying.

That's my mistake, sorry. I was told by friends to say x if I didn't know what someone prefers to be called by.

Mammoth Jones · Feb 19, 2019

Yea, this been known about the dude. Nothing new to know. Dude was a racist through and through. But let's chop it up a bit:

"...educated to the point of responsibility."

Ok. Cool. I can work with that. Oh, wait. That's right. Every substantial opportunity "the blacks" have had to obtain education (and thus elevate their socioeconomic status) has been fought on every level by good ole boys like John Wayne. So I don't wanna hear that bullshit from him or anyone the fuck else on the subject till you deal with that.

Motherfuckers killed babies cause they was salty the black man and woman and child demanded equality under the law. Poured acid on black kids rather than share a pool with them. And those few times we did build up our own economy? Well...

Extra Sauce · Feb 19, 2019

TAJ said:
Name one.
And don't you dare say The Searchers.

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

NervousXtian · Feb 19, 2019

I mean, everyone in my generation knew this already about him. A lot dudes from the first part of the last century had some pretty abhorrent views. (I know this is from 71.. but he's from that generation).

I mean, I don't understand the point of someone making some big deal out of it.. we could play the who was a racist piece of shit from way back when all day every day and not run out of material.

Even the Playboy interviewer basically was calling him out for what he was saying.

Harp · Feb 19, 2019

jerf said:
A looooong time. Fake ass couldn't even really ride horses.

If you have an issue with actors being illegitimate, I've got bad news about every actor you're about to see paraded about the oscars. Say what you will about John Wayne's views and ideas, most of his films were shot behind studios in Hollywood. Not a ton of space for horses to run around, and how often is he even riding a horse in those movies on screen? He was hired for his face and name. Nothing more. Same exact shit you see in movies today

Like, guess what dude, Denzel Washington probably doesn't know a ton about firearms or law enforcement procedure. What a hack!

ramoisdead · Feb 19, 2019

I mean... wasn't it obvious John Wayne swayed toward that??

Amiablepercy · Feb 19, 2019

ramoisdead said:
I mean... wasn't it obvious John Wayne swayed toward that??

Probably the most obvious thing ever.

NekoFever · Feb 19, 2019

Masquerader said:
True, but I read that he stopped working with Sergio Leone because of his generous portrayal of the Confederacy in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. By that metric, John Wayne was a FAR worse person.

Member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans Clint Eastwood?

Masquerader · Feb 19, 2019

NekoFever said:
Member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans Clint Eastwood?

Welp. Shit. Then I got nothing~ Though, he does seem to have become an even bigger asshole over time.

Thurston Last · Feb 19, 2019

ViewtifulJC said:
I mean the Searchers is still hailed as one of the greatest films of all time but go off

So true.

Anytime bad information about musician/actor/artist comes out, or is brought up again people fall over-themselves to point out that "their work was always shit" lol

Is it a coping mechanism so they don't feel like they are missing out when they boycott it? IDK. But you see it all the time.

Loudninja · Feb 19, 2019

What funny seeing on twitter people saying it was 70s everyone was racist!!!!!

Such a shitty poor excuse people have.

L Thammy · Feb 19, 2019

Kai Dracon said:
Well, if nothing else it's worth examining how Wayne's account of his racism and white supremacy are particularly direct and honest.

The exact nature of his views offer a good explanation for the core of America's justification for its racism. Including, crucially, structural racism. Wayne didn't see racial bias as a matter of fear and hatred, but harsh practicality. White hegemony was a simple and sensible fact of life people ought to come to grips with.

It is important to consider the generation Wayne originated from - his era was what informed the perspective of the people who are today responsible for propping up a racist configuration of society and especially for what is popularly called diet racism - "I'm not racist, I just think Urban Youth outta Stay in School, that's what their trouble is!"

I don't know if that's true. A fairly standard excuse for slavery was paternalism. The stated reason was that Africans were an inferior, uncultured society, and through slavery they'd learn and their culture would be improved. From Robert E. Lee to his wife:

In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence.

Of course, this is the same Robert E. Lee who led a war to keep slavery. He has no actual desire to listen to any orders from a wise merciful providence if they didn't go his way.

Thurston Last · Feb 19, 2019

TAJ said:
Name one.
And don't you dare say The Searchers.

He was in a lot of classic Westerns besides The Searchers.

Stagecoach
Red River
Rio Bravo
The Man who shot Liberty Valance
The Cowboys
True Grit
Big Jake
McLintock

He was also in a number of war movies, some of which have not aged well, but The Sands of Iwo Jima is still a classic.

Barrel Cannon · Feb 19, 2019

There's an abundance of blatant racism in the past. Not too surprised at all that he'd say something like this. I would think most people wouldn't have the audacity to say something so dumb these days but I remember that Trump is somehow in office now. Speaking of which,
if the title of this thread replaced "John Wayne" with "Trump", it would be just as believable.

Mechanized · Feb 19, 2019

I didn't expect John Wayne to be progressive in any way really. I mean he was John Wayne. It's shocking to see it out in print so blatant, in the 70s no less, but at the same time it's like, what did you expect from John Wayne? I forgot John Wayne existed until this started making the rounds. John Wayne John Wayne. Dude had two first names.

MrRob · Feb 19, 2019

Yeah we have known this for quite a while. Good I guess that others are learning what an awful POS he was.

ProstatePuncher · Feb 19, 2019

Hollywood Duo · Feb 19, 2019

Who's next? Charlton Heston?

prophetvx · Feb 19, 2019

A guy who would have been 112 this year and died in 1979 was a racist... Shocking

Lothars · Feb 19, 2019

neon_dream said:
John Wayne is fading from the cultural memory. His movies haven't stood the test of time. No one gives a shit about him now except people over 70 years old. In 50 years he'll be a footnote in movie history.

I do think the quotes are interesting in how they can inform us today, but as for the man, he's dead and buried.

I don't agree, there are a bunch of his movies that do stand the test of time. He may be forgotten but that doesn't mean his movies are still not good.

John Wayne - “I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility.”

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