Johnny Depp loses libel case over use of term ‘wife beater’ by The Sun newspaper in Amber Heard allegations

betwixtie

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Oct 29, 2017
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They're both abusive trash. It's weird how non-stans are taking Depp's side when there's clear evidence against him, like him admitting on tape he head-butted her and texting his friend that he wants to burn/drown her then fuck her dead body.

I guess his PR team did a good job at making him the victim.
 

ak1287

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Oct 28, 2017
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They're both abusive trash. It's weird how non-stans are taking Depp's side when there's clear evidence against him, like him admitting on tape he head-butted her and texting his friend that he wants to burn/drown her then fuck her dead body.

I guess his PR team did a good job at making him the victim.
I think the admission was that he inadvertently headbutted Heard while she was attacking him, in the process of getting away?
Which is... not at all the same as everything that Heard did.
 

Goodstyle

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Nov 1, 2017
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A lot of factors at play, but here's the bottom line:

This case was a hard one to win in the first place (Johnny had to prove there was NOTHING he did that was even mildly wrong on his end since he's a man) and Johnny had bad lawyers.

Seriously, his lawyers were fighting a media war, and the judge saw that.

So what's next with all this Depp/Heard stuff?
Johnny was planning to sue Heard directly after this in Virginia courts IIRC, but that might not happen after this.

This will have significant repercussions in their careers. Heard didn't just win, she was legally vindicated, the judgement went out of its way to present her in the best possible light. Depp's team must have really pissed off the judge.
 
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alexiswrite

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Oct 27, 2017
1,382
I think the admission was that he inadvertently headbutted Heard while she was attacking him, in the process of getting away?
Which is... not at all the same as everything that Heard did.
That isn't even really his story and even if it was his story, I don't know why everything he says should be treated as automatically 100% the truth (and just to say I feel the same about her, I wouldn't automatically treat everything she says as 100% the truth).
 

Platy

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Oct 25, 2017
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I think the admission was that he inadvertently headbutted Heard while she was attacking him, in the process of getting away?
Which is... not at all the same as everything that Heard did.
One can say he is an abusive trash even if not a wife abusing trash since he has a huge history of abusing regular workers like hotel staff, paparazzis and waiters

Yes, not the same as Heard, but the dude is not a Saint in any way

Also, Fuck the Sun
 

ak1287

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Oct 28, 2017
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One can say he is an abusive trash even if not a wife abusing trash since he has a huge history of abusing regular workers like hotel staff, paparazzis and waiters

Yes, not the same as Heard, but the dude is not a Saint in any way

Also, Fuck the Sun
This argument feels weirdly familiar...
 

yado

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Oct 25, 2017
471
Have you looked at the ruling at all? Honestly, because what you're saying is not what the ruling says at all. It goes through over ten incidents and the judge talks pretty in depth about each one of them.
People are completely glossing over his actions detailed in the ruling and going with what they can "recall" instead.
 

Damien1990

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May 23, 2020
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Wootton reaction:

Johnny was planning to sue Heard directly after this in Virginia courts IIRC, but that might not happen after this.
Seems to still be happening

Jenny Afia of Schillings law firm, who represented Mr Depp, said in a statement: "The judgment is so flawed that it would be ridiculous for Mr Depp not to appeal this decision."

She continued: "Most troubling is the judge’s reliance on the testimony of Amber Heard, and corresponding disregard of the mountain of counter-evidence from police officers, medical practitioners, her own former assistant, other unchallenged witnesses and an array of documentary evidence which completely undermined the allegations, point by point.

"All of this was overlooked. The judgment is so flawed that it would be ridiculous for Mr Depp not to appeal this decision."
Referencing another libel case involving the pair in the US, the statement continued: "We hope that in contrast to this case, the ongoing libel proceedings in America are equitable, with both parties providing full disclosure rather than one side strategically cherry picking what evidence can and cannot be relied upon."
 
Nov 2, 2017
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Libel cases are notoriously hard to win. This isn't much of a surprise.
This was about libel against a tabloid. Libel is ridiculously hard to prove especially for a celebrity. Just last year we saw Vic Magnolia (who was guilty as shit of being a creep/predator) do something similar to Funimation and the women who accused him and the case was thrown out. You have to prove the statement made was not just false but was known to be false but made anyway to cause damage. We have people in this thread doing "both were toxic" which just confirms why this case was ruled the way it was.
This is not true.

The Mignogna case is as described, but that’s because he filed his case in the US. In the UK, libel is very different, and the bar is basically “was what they printed untrue”, full stop, nothing required about intent whatsoever.

US courts will actually not enforce UK libel judgements because the bar for being guilty of libel in the UK is considered to be too low.
 

BassForever

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This is not true.

The Mignogna case is as described, but that’s because he filed his case in the US. In the UK, libel is very different, and the bar is basically “was what they printed untrue”, full stop, nothing required about intent whatsoever.

US courts will actually not enforce UK libel judgements because the bar for being guilty of libel in the UK is considered to be too low.
I did not know this, thanks for clarifying
 

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That isn't even really his story and even if it was his story, I don't know why everything he says should be treated as automatically 100% the truth (and just to say I feel the same about her, I wouldn't automatically treat everything she says as 100% the truth).
People are going off what she said in private recordings in which she repeatedly admits to physically abusing him regularly, instigating the physical abuse, and even pursuing him to abuse him further when he would try to leave or de-escalate the situation.

What’s not clear about that?
 

alexiswrite

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Oct 27, 2017
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People are going off what she said in private recordings in which she repeatedly admits to physically abusing him regularly, instigating the physical abuse, and even pursuing him to abuse him further when he would try to leave or de-escalate the situation.

What’s not clear about that?
Firstly, she didn't say those things, these are inferences that you're making, levels of inference that if we apply to things Johnny Depp has said make him look really bad. Secondly, both of them have basically admitted at various times to hurting each other in this sort of way. Thirdly, part of being in an abusive relationship is that you might say things is that you might say things in a private conversation with your abuser that aren't 100% true (which is an argument both people make here). So what you kinda have to do is actually try and parse through evidence at specific incidents and not just look at one thing one person said at one moment, that's disconnected from any actual incidents.

Also, why do we weight what someone said in an emotional conversation with the person they say is their abuser, more than than the years of text messages and emails and other conversations to him and other people that say the opposite thing. Shouldn't we try and weigh evidence in its totality?
 

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Firstly, she didn't say those things, these are inferences that you're making, levels of inference that if we apply to things Johnny Depp has said make him look really bad. Secondly, both of them have basically admitted at various times to hurting each other in this sort of way. Thirdly, part of being in an abusive relationship is that you might say things is that you might say things in a private conversation with your abuser that aren't 100% true (which is an argument both people make here). So what you kinda have to do is actually try and parse through evidence at specific incidents and not just look at one thing one person said at one moment, that's disconnected from any actual incidents.

Also, why do we weight what someone said in an emotional conversation with the person they say is their abuser, more than than the years of text messages and emails and other conversations to him and other people that say the opposite thing. Shouldn't we try and weigh evidence in its totality?
They aren’t inferences, they are things she describes directly in the recordings. Of course abuse victims say things they don’t mean to appease their abuser, but that’s not the behavior on display in the recordings. The behavior on display in the recordings is an abuser repeatedly detailing the abuse they have perpetrated against their partner, the manner in which they perpetrated it, their intent to continue to perpetrate that abuse, and repeated boasting about how they can get away with the abuse and how their victim will never be believed. The statement “you might say things that are not 100% true” is carrying a LOT of water when describing the content of those recordings and what you are asserting has basically no basis in the known facts. I believe she did what she describes in those recordings because there is extensive evidence of what is being described and because she is describing in detail her own behavior in a way that is consistent with the behavior of abusers to their victims.
 

alexiswrite

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They aren’t inferences, they are things she describes directly in the recordings. Of course abuse victims say things they don’t mean to appease their abuser, but that’s not the behavior on display in the recordings. The behavior on display in the recordings is an abuser repeatedly detailing the abuse they have perpetrated against their partner, the manner in which they perpetrated it, their intent to continue to perpetrate that abuse, and repeated boasting about how they can get away with the abuse and how their victim will never be believed. The statement “you might say things that are not 100% true” is carrying a LOT of water when describing the content of those recordings and what you are asserting has basically no basis in the known facts. I believe she did what she describes in those recordings because there is extensive evidence of what is being described and because she is describing in detail her own behavior in a way that is consistent with the behavior of abusers to their victims.
Some of these are definitely inferences. She never says that she pursues him to abuse him when he tries to leave.

You're also ignoring the fact that Depp has said similar things. They've had similar conversations about Depp headbutting her, or messages Depp has sent after getting too fucked up drunk on a plane and hitting her.

You're also ignoring all the other things she's and he's said over the course of the relationship.

We can't draw a circle around one thing and pretend everything else doesn't exist. Like I we totally draw a circle around a Johnny Depp conversation and say "he's downplaying the fact that he hit her here after being confronted, he must have been the abuser here and Amber did nothing wrong."

I don't know, when you look at the whole thing it's difficult not to view them both as toxic fucked up people who hurt each other.
 

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Some of these are definitely inferences. She never says that she pursues him to abuse him when he tries to leave.

You're also ignoring the fact that Depp has said similar things. They've had similar conversations about Depp headbutting her, or messages Depp has sent after getting too fucked up drunk on a plane and hitting her.

You're also ignoring all the other things she's and he's said over the course of the relationship.

We can't draw a circle around one thing and pretend everything else doesn't exist. Like I we totally draw a circle around a Johnny Depp conversation and say "he's downplaying the fact that he hit her here after being confronted, he must have been the abuser here and Amber did nothing wrong."

I don't know, when you look at the whole thing it's difficult not to view them both as toxic fucked up people who hurt each other.
I’m not ignoring those things, I’m talking specifically about the recordings which you are trying to cast doubt on based on nothing. In the recordings he says he tries to leave the situation and she says she doesn’t let him, that’s directly from the recordings. Nowhere did I say that Depp did not lash out at her as well, it’s very clear he did, we have evidence of that (the head butting incident, him on video throwing a wine glass at her, etc.). Yes they were both toxic, and Depp has pretty serious substance abuse problems. Doesn’t change the fact that Heard describes herself as the instigator of abuse and acts in a textbook abuser manner. The fact that you are trying to downplay that is pretty gross tbh.

The public view of this situation is so far from the reality of it, and that’s extremely fucked up and terrible for male abuse victims. He’s as much of a victim as she is, if not more so. She cut part of his fucking finger off, there are multiple recordings across multiple instances of her describing herself abusing him, saying she will abuse him more, telling him he won’t be believed that she is abusing him. That’s what’s frustrating about this situation.
 

alexiswrite

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I’m not ignoring those things, I’m talking specifically about the recordings which you are trying to cast doubt on based on nothing. In the recordings he says he tries to leave the situation and she says she doesn’t let him, that’s directly from the recordings. Nowhere did I say that Depp did not lash out at her as well, it’s very clear he did, we have evidence of that (the head butting incident, him on video throwing a wine glass at her, etc.). Yes they were both toxic, and Depp has pretty serious substance abuse problems. Doesn’t change the fact that Heard describes herself as the instigator of abuse and acts in a textbook abuser manner. The fact that you are trying to downplay that is pretty gross tbh.

The public view of this situation is so far from the reality of it, and that’s extremely fucked up and terrible for male abuse victims. He’s as much of a victim as she is, if not more so. She cut part of his fucking finger off, there are multiple recordings across multiple instances of her describing herself abusing him, saying she will abuse him more, telling him he won’t be believed that she is abusing him. That’s what’s frustrating about this situation.
Over the last bunch of years, both of them have described themselves as instigators of toxic and abusive behaviour. That's the issue here. The big difference between the two of them as far as I'm concerned is you have a recording of her at her worst, and no recording of him drunk and on cocaine destroying stuff in anger at her and saying awful things (which we know happened, we just don't have the recording). Therefore, I understand why one might feel more upset at her, but to me, it just feels like for her we have a more visceral representation of how bad she could be, whereas we don't have that for him.

It's abusive behaviour to get drunk and high and say and do really awful things and then promise change and not change at all, it's abusive behaviour to be so jealous that you constantly try and isolate a person by trying to get them to drop out of movies with men you're jealous of, or by burning and defacing paintings that were given to them by people they once dated, it's abusive to give your partner black eyes or rip out their hair. Like we can line up the things each of them have done, I just don't really see the point because it's just clarification that they were both abusers here.

I agree the public view of this is pretty stupid and harmful, it's very clear to me that she was also abusive to him. It would be better in society if we didn't just see this in a black and white, "it's a man so he's at fault" way. I agree.
 

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Over the last bunch of years, both of them have described themselves as instigators of toxic and abusive behaviour. That's the issue here. The big difference between the two of them as far as I'm concerned is you have a recording of her at her worst, and no recording of him drunk and on cocaine destroying stuff in anger at her and saying awful things (which we know happened, we just don't have the recording). Therefore, I understand why one might feel more upset at her, but to me, it just feels like for her we have a more visceral representation of how bad she could be, whereas we don't have that for him.

It's abusive behaviour to get drunk and high and say and do really awful things and then promise change and not change at all, it's abusive behaviour to be so jealous that you constantly try and isolate a person by trying to get them to drop out of movies with men you're jealous of, or by burning and defacing paintings that were given to them by people they once dated, it's abusive to give your partner black eyes or rip out their hair. Like we can line up the things each of them have done, I just don't really see the point because it's just clarification that they were both abusers here.

I agree the public view of this is pretty stupid and harmful, it's very clear to me that she was also abusive to him. It would be better in society if we didn't just see this in a black and white, "it's a man so he's at fault" way. I agree.
There are video recordings of him drunk and high and destroying things, throwing things at her, saying horrible stuff, I literally referenced that in my post. You clearly don’t have all the information available because you keep making false statements like that and misrepresenting the evidence that exists.

We will never know all the details but her abusive behavior is clear, as is his.
 
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alexiswrite

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There are video recordings of him drunk and high and destroying things, throwing things at her, saying horrible stuff, I literally referenced that in my post. You clearly don’t have all the information available because you keep making false statements like that and misrepresenting the evidence that exists.

We will never know all the details but her abusive behavior is clear, as is his.
You said that the stuff happened, which I agreed with, but I didn't know there were a ton of video records. My bad that I missed that. I just don't see many people talk about that.

And I agree, that's been my point all along. They both have exhibited abusive behaviour. That is clear.