JoJo's Bizarre Adventure ERA |OT| Stand Up and Pose

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
Polnareff is the true protagonist of Part 3.
unironically yes. Jotaro is more akin to a Femme Fatale, including the fact that he's ultimately the one who solves The Problem.

EDIT: I feel like I say that a lot without justifying or expounding on it. A femme fatale is generally the woman in noire films who brings a case to a detective's attention, and often is evasive or reluctant to explain what exactly it will entail or how deep it goes, or be directly involved in the investigation. Jotaro doesn't do this directly, but his reluctance to be involved fits, as does the fact that his stand confirms to joseph what he's going to have to do.

Jotaro's fight with dio can be seen as an expanded version of the traditional femme fatale stepping out from the shadows and shooting the villain in the back, right before he was going to kill the hero. (polnareff)

It isn't until the very end that Jotaro gives us even the slightest peek into what this journey meant to him and how he feels about it, when he smiles on the airplane looking at the photo. He wasn't the kind of guy to allow himself to be a protagonist, but the fight against Dio turned him into one.
 
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Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
Its actually not true because Jotaro still have noticeable more screentime than Pol.
much of Stardust Crusaders' screentime is highly unimportant in the context of the overall story and character development. If you look at the character arcs, Jotaro's is very flat with a big spike at the end (though that first main bit isn't TOTALLY flat), and Polnareff goes through a whole lot of shit.
 

fertygo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,092
much of Stardust Crusaders' screentime is highly unimportant in the context of the overall story and character development. If you look at the character arcs, Jotaro's is very flat with a big spike at the end (though that first main bit isn't TOTALLY flat), and Polnareff goes through a whole lot of shit.
If you arguing that way, you would end up nodding Koichi is the true P4 Mc too.. and I have a feeling you feel differently about this one lol
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
If you arguing that way, you would end up nodding Koichi is the true P4 Mc too.. and I have a feeling you feel differently about this one lol
Koichi is the narrator. It's different. And Josuke has much more of a journey. Jotaro is just totally closed off from everyone around him and doesn't really let the audience get inside his head very often. We slowly learn about why he's like that and how it doesn't mean he doesn't care, but we learn from the outside. This is not bad, and he's still more important than Pol, but we're nowhere near as close to him as we are to other jojos.

Part 4 is much more of a thing where everyone has their own Polnareff style threads they're following and we dip into and out of them. Everyone, including Jotaro. When everyone has a fairly equal spotlight, determining the protagonist by screentime becomes even less relevant.

To make another comparison: Gyro Zeppelli is not the protagonist of Steel Ball Run. While he's a lot more expressive than Jotaro, he bears a lot of similarities to him in terms of his dynamic with Johnny, who is the Polnareff of Part 7, and also explicitly framed as the part's protagonist by virtue of him being the one with joestar in the name.

It feels like an attempt to explore more intentionally a dynamic that happened sort of organically in part 3, and making it fit with the typical structure of the series.

EDIT:

Also, forgot to mention, every time i get into a groove with reading Jojolion something like, for example, a 9 year old boy feeling up and licking a grown woman's inner thigh starts happening for no reason. Also I don't think I posted about how yasuho's first time being attacked by a stand led to her almost getting raped twice, then drugged with sleeping pills and waterboarded, all in the span of about 20 minutes in-world. Her stand is super cool, the design is cool, she is cool, but everything the story is giving her to do these last few chapters is a huge bummer. Don't get me wrong, what she does with Paisley Park in this specific chapter is cool, but she was just in a drug-induced sleep for the entire last arc so i need more than just that.
 
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Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
hey guys, how about a chill thing to talk about:

Do u call it:

Jojo

-or-

Jojo's

I am of the opinion that the former way of referring to the series is a verbal disease and blight upon the world.

I did not include "Jojos" with no apostrophe because I believe in my heart that none of you have sunk to that level of depravity.
 

Mariip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,550
Koichi is the narrator. It's different. And Josuke has much more of a journey. Jotaro is just totally closed off from everyone around him and doesn't really let the audience get inside his head very often. We slowly learn about why he's like that and how it doesn't mean he doesn't care, but we learn from the outside. This is not bad, and he's still more important than Pol, but we're nowhere near as close to him as we are to other jojos.

Part 4 is much more of a thing where everyone has their own Polnareff style threads they're following and we dip into and out of them. Everyone, including Jotaro. When everyone has a fairly equal spotlight, determining the protagonist by screentime becomes even less relevant.

To make another comparison: Gyro Zeppelli is not the protagonist of Steel Ball Run. While he's a lot more expressive than Jotaro, he bears a lot of similarities to him in terms of his dynamic with Johnny, who is the Polnareff of Part 7, and also explicitly framed as the part's protagonist by virtue of him being the one with joestar in the name.

It feels like an attempt to explore more intentionally a dynamic that happened sort of organically in part 3, and making it fit with the typical structure of the series.

EDIT:

Also, forgot to mention, every time i get into a groove with reading Jojolion something like, for example, a 9 year old boy feeling up and licking a grown woman's inner thigh starts happening for no reason. Also I don't think I posted about how yasuho's first time being attacked by a stand led to her almost getting raped twice, then drugged with sleeping pills and waterboarded, all in the span of about 20 minutes in-world. Her stand is super cool, the design is cool, she is cool, but everything the story is giving her to do these last few chapters is a huge bummer. Don't get me wrong, what she does with Paisley Park in this specific chapter is cool, but she was just in a drug-induced sleep for the entire last arc so i need more than just that.
Afair this was the worst yasuho’s got, which is why i say it’s better than Lucy >_>

I say Jojo, but jojos ain’t wrong, we have 8 of them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,623
If you arguing that way, you would end up nodding Koichi is the true P4 Mc too.. and I have a feeling you feel differently about this one lol
Honestly, that's the reason I'm not as fond of Josuke as so many others are.

I don't hate him or anything, but he's just kind of there. Part 4 mostly feels like things happening around him, and his supporting cast has more developed arcs and deeper connections to the two main villains. But since he's the part's JoJo, he gets to solve most of the problems, at least his fights aren't boring like P3 Jotaro's.

hey guys, how about a chill thing to talk about:

Do u call it:

Jojo

-or-

Jojo's

I am of the opinion that the former way of referring to the series is a verbal disease and blight upon the world.

I did not include "Jojos" with no apostrophe because I believe in my heart that none of you have sunk to that level of depravity.
JoJo's for the series as a whole, JoJo if I'm talking about a specific part's JoJo.
Claiming Jotaro isn't the protagonist of P3 is such an odd scapegoat to avoid saying most of P3 is shit
Nah, I was just joking because P3 Jotaro is the worst.

I'm not afraid to call P3 bad.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,594
I don't hate him or anything, but he's just kind of there. Part 4 mostly feels like things happening around him, and his supporting cast has more developed arcs and deeper connections to the two main villains. But since he's the part's JoJo, he gets to solve most of the problems, at least his fights aren't boring like P3 Jotaro's.
Yeah, it feels like Jôsuke has barely any connection to the bad guys of the season after Angelo. Red Hot Chili Pepper kills Okuyasu's brother, not his, and Kira kills Shigecchi, which hasn't been made particularly sympathetic anyway. It's more that they're both bad people and Jôsuke is a hero THUS needs to punish their evil deeds. But compared to the other Jojo/Villains (part 8 notwithstanding), his motivations are rather light. It also doesn't help he has to fight for the spotlight with Jôtarô and get his approval.

That's partly why I love Giorno: while Giorno is discreet and is OK to stay behind his companions, he remains the center and driving force of his series without being bombastic about it like Joseph or Jolyne (who are also great, but it's nice to have a change).
 

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,567
That's partly why I love Giorno: while Giorno is discreet and is OK to stay behind his companions, he remains the center and driving force of his series without being bombastic about it like Joseph or Jolyne (who are also great, but it's nice to have a change).
Giorno:
"Imma sit back and let you have the lime light, but when you fuck up I'm going to rez your ass."
 
OP
OP
Matsukaze

Matsukaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,265
hey guys, how about a chill thing to talk about:

Do u call it:

Jojo

-or-

Jojo's

I am of the opinion that the former way of referring to the series is a verbal disease and blight upon the world.

I did not include "Jojos" with no apostrophe because I believe in my heart that none of you have sunk to that level of depravity.
I go with JoJo.
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,624
hey guys, how about a chill thing to talk about:

Do u call it:

Jojo

-or-

Jojo's

I am of the opinion that the former way of referring to the series is a verbal disease and blight upon the world.

I did not include "Jojos" with no apostrophe because I believe in my heart that none of you have sunk to that level of depravity.
JoJo is the superior way of saying it. “I watch JoJo.”
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
Claiming Jotaro isn't the protagonist of P3 is such an odd scapegoat to avoid saying most of P3 is shit
half 1 of part 3 is not that good, half 2 is great but keeps the same dynamic between pol and jotaro, so i honestly cant say that said dynamic is my problem with it. ive been a pretty vocal disliker of how part 3 starts out (but honestly even the beginning has grown on me as ive rewatched/re-read. i think the manga did that first bit a little better. and i really respect it for establishing stands out of nowhere)
 

Yuu di Hoshi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,465
And thus the downplaying of anything not Part V and/or condescendence towards the Morioh Warriors continues
Part 3 would've been better as 39 episodes. They pulled that off just fine with Vento Aureo, and it may even work some wonders for SO

Also, I did not know we could get achievements on here? Huh.
 

RecRoulette

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,459
hey guys, how about a chill thing to talk about:

Do u call it:

Jojo

-or-

Jojo's

I am of the opinion that the former way of referring to the series is a verbal disease and blight upon the world.

I did not include "Jojos" with no apostrophe because I believe in my heart that none of you have sunk to that level of depravity.
Jojo, with part 7 being my favorite of the Jojos
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
been watching the beginning of part 3, and remembering how much I liked stuff like the Ebony Devil and Yellow Temperance fights. they didn't overstay their welcome and had a bunch of cool back and forth tacticool moments.

I think it was a bit after this that i started to get a bit bored when i watched the anime for the first time. something that's always good is the cultural immersion aspect of this part. the explanations about different places and people are fascinating.

EDIT: oh yeah, this is why; hol horse sucks and the hanged man is kind of boring. Also Avdol's "death" sucked. he deserved better even if it was fake/retconned, whichever it was.

I think I liked Hol Horse more in the dub, actually. VA really sells his character as a kinda tough guy who's a huge dork
 
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Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,594
The problem with part 3 adaptation is that the manga's pacing is very erratic, because it fits the format better. However, most fights need to fit the 20 minutes TV format no matter what, which means cutting things sometimes, stretching things other times.
If part 3 had been on a streaming service and could have afforded some episodes being only 15 minutes long, and some others being 25 minutes long, it would have improved it immensely.
Same for part 4. What they did to the rock-paper-scissor boy is the main reason I don't like this adaptation. For some reason, I don't think it harmed part 5 too much.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
Junkan kid was done well, I thought. But I agree in general. part 1 and 2 were better suited to adaptation, and by part 5 they seem to have figured out how to adapt the 3 onward style extremely well.

Update on my rewatch: Lol @ Wheel Of Fortune.

Enya fight owns mainly because of the antics, not the actual mechanics of it
 
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JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,567
been watching the beginning of part 3, and remembering how much I liked stuff like the Ebony Devil and Yellow Temperance fights. they didn't overstay their welcome and had a bunch of cool back and forth tacticool moments.

I think it was a bit after this that i started to get a bit bored when i watched the anime for the first time. something that's always good is the cultural immersion aspect of this part. the explanations about different places and people are fascinating.

EDIT: oh yeah, this is why; hol horse sucks and the hanged man is kind of boring. Also Avdol's "death" sucked. he deserved better even if it was fake/retconned, whichever it was.

I think I liked Hol Horse more in the dub, actually. VA really sells his character as a kinda tough guy who's a huge dork
Dubbed Hol Horse saw A Fistful of Dollars too many times, it was great. The dub as a whole is pretty good.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
Dubbed Hol Horse saw A Fistful of Dollars too many times, it was great. The dub as a whole is pretty good.
yeah, Ive found that anime dubs in general are pretty good these days. I got into the habit of watching My Hero in the dub even though i meant waiting a bit to get to it, and I actually vastly prefer One Punch Man dubbed.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
So I think there's a fairly big group of people who want the Steel Ball Run ED to be Roundabout, but what... what if it was Old Town Road?

Lil Nas X is a huge dork, I can see him wanting to make a deal on licensing it for jojo.

It would be many years from now, but I feel like that would make it even better, because people would have forgotten the OTR craze and this would be a hilarious reminder.

Also, Old Town Road is a good stand name.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884

Guys... I think this would really work extremely well as an ED... (link is to a mockup someone else did)

The meme option is never what wins, and usually sucks compared to the true option.
Gangster's Paradise was too free of irony, Freek N'You was the true meme option. But this time, I actually genuinely can't think of anything that would fit better than this or Roundabout. The entire style of Old Town Road being a fusion of genres into something hyper-hip and current is a feeling I get from most of the original music in JoJo. It feels like it was made for this, honestly.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,180
does he have them picked out for all of them?
He gives the anime team a list for each part and they pick one from it. Old Town Road would be a surprise to say the least. rather than who knows how much other music Araki has listened to. Especially considering the fact that his ED choices aren't exactly the chart toppers
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,180
Whitesnake doesn't make sense. Legit it does not.

the rest do.

Except for early D4C

early D4C is... it is truly something.
 

Mariip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,550
a horse with no name by america should be considered
.
He gives the anime team a list for each part and they pick one from it. Old Town Road would be a surprise to say the least. rather than who knows how much other music Araki has listened to. Especially considering the fact that his ED choices aren't exactly the chart toppers
he gives them a list(i think with 3-4songs), they ask for licensing and whatever song they get the license is used, meaning part 5 pribably had two ops because they got the rights to use both songs so why not?

(That’s also how roundabout got picked, it was the only license they got)


Receipts^
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
He gives the anime team a list for each part and they pick one from it. Old Town Road would be a surprise to say the least. rather than who knows how much other music Araki has listened to. Especially considering the fact that his ED choices aren't exactly the chart toppers
wait, so he gave them one list years ago and never updates it? that sounds unlikely to me. And I'm pretty sure Walk Like an Egyptian topped some charts.

EDIT: Whitesnake makes sense. It has one power it never uses again, and then another power that is fucking busted, lol
 

Mariip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,550
wait, so he gave them one list years ago and never updates it? that sounds unlikely to me. And I'm pretty sure Walk Like an Egyptian topped some charts.
Check the link i sent for the whole process, but the songs don’t need to be new, since he sends songs that fit the “mood” of the part they tend to be time proof, i think...

I find it funny how they simply gave up and asked for songs xD
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,180
wait, so he gave them one list years ago and never updates it? that sounds unlikely to me. And I'm pretty sure Walk Like an Egyptian topped some charts.
No, I'm saying that he has particular lists, and it's unlikely that OTR is going to be a part of them.

Especially when you consider that the songs are generally in tune with the time the part released.

OTR is almost two decades too late to be an option.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
No, I'm saying that he has particular lists, and it's unlikely that OTR is going to be a part of them.

Especially when you consider that the songs are generally in tune with the time the part released.

OTR is almost two decades too late to be an option.
Sure, sure, I get that. It's just funny to me how well the song fits with the jojo aesthetic.

boy, the second season of sc really pops off. Geb is one of Jotaro's best fights
 

RecRoulette

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,459
.

he gives them a list(i think with 3-4songs), they ask for licensing and whatever song they get the license is used, meaning part 5 pribably had two ops because they got the rights to use both songs so why not?

(That’s also how roundabout got picked, it was the only license they got)


Receipts^
Amazing how they stumbled into that because of how well it works.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
Did I ever mention how much Joshu sucks? Because he does. I sure was excited about Not-Jolyene showing up until he did whatever the fuck he thought he was doing.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,884
KAATO *__*
Yeah Joshu sucks, do you believe there are people saying he did nothing wrong?
Based on what i've seen so far, if there are any people saying that about Kaato I might be inclined to believe them. She seems far more principled and badass than bubble dad, even if she is clearly on the wrong side at the moment.

where i'm at, Josuke and Yasuho are back in an actual team with no origami groper child in sight. I have reservations about this part so far, but those two as a duo is 100% of what's propelling me to keep reading. One of my favorite JoJo teams. If the plant expert is a permanent addition, then that will continue to hold true.
 
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