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JoJo's Bizarre Adventure ERA |OT| Stand Up and Pose

Palazzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
542
#2. Jojolion has these really cute little chapter opening and closing messages from araki, often talking about the theme of the chapter and building anticipation for the next. some extremely good content there, especially the "is he a man of the land or a man of the jacuzzi?" one.
Those actually aren't from Araki (presumably); they're from the editors of the magazine Jojo is serialized in. Apparently including them is common practice even in other publications, because other regular series (like those in Weekly Shonen Jump) have them included too. In every series I've seen that has them - Jojo included - they're removed for the collected volume releases, so I wouldn't count on them making it into the anime.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
Those actually aren't from Araki (presumably); they're from the editors of the magazine Jojo is serialized in. Apparently including them is common practice even in other publications, because other regular series (like those in Weekly Shonen Jump) have them included too. In every series I've seen that has them - Jojo included - they're removed for the collected volume releases, so I wouldn't count on them making it into the anime.
damn... i would imagine he has the approve them tho, and if they got cheeky and specific enough to do that jacuzzi bit i feel like he probably doesn't hate that they're there
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
Interesting.

The JPN wikipedia articles for 4 and 5 both have "は後年に付けられた副題で" ("[referring to the new titles] is a subtitle given in later years").

Looks like when each was rereleased in a smaller number of volumes ('02 for 1-3, '04 for 4, '05 for 5, '08 for 6).
ah, ok cool. so if I'm not mistaken it's more that this format of naming stuff as that kinda iconic sounding phrase or term was conceived of for the previous parts before it carried forward to steel ball run.
 

JKuch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
545
Yeah, as far as I understand, originally there was no such division between "parts", it was just "JoJo's Bizarre Adventure", and then at some point between part 6 and part 7 they were rereleased separated by each part, and given subtitles for each, so before this Part 5 was like, for example, volume 30 of the manga, and with the new way each part acts as if it was its own manga.
 

Mariip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,351
Interesting.

The JPN wikipedia articles for 4 and 5 both have "は後年に付けられた副題で" ("[referring to the new titles] is a subtitle given in later years").

Looks like when each was rereleased in a smaller number of volumes ('02 for 1-3, '04 for 4, '05 for 5, '08 for 6).
Yeah, mexican and brazilian versions are based on the bunkobans(smaller volumes that mix two in one...and are pretty cheap) rather than going for the aizouban(-like thing that are the jojoniums
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,318
I just found out about the original titles for parts 1-6. Does anyone know exactly when they were retroactively changed? was it just immediately after the first collected volumes were released or only at the time of steel ball run? Because the newnaming convention seems to be in the style of "Steel Ball Run" and "Jojolion" more than anything and it would make sense for that to have been retroactively applied. its kinda weird knowing parts 4-6 were mostly just called the name of the main character.

it makes more sense to me now why calling them "parts" is so emphasized
What I remember is that at least "Phantom Blood" and "Battle Tendency" are apocryphal. Stardust Crusader, I'm not sure, but I never called it like that until years later. I think one of the subtitles at the time was "未来への遺産", "Heritage for the future", which was used in the Capcom game as well.
As for Part 5, I remember different names: 黄金の遺産(Golden heritage), 黄金体験 (Gold Experience), 黄金の風 (golden wind)... The Capcom game was also called Golden Wind, but with different kanji (黄金の旋風). They only started using italian (Parte 5 Vento Aureo) much, much later.
Part 4 started as "Part 4 Higashikata Jôsuke", then got the subtitle "ダイヤモンドは砕けない" in the rerelease in bunko format, with the hilarious subtitle "Diamond is not crash".
Now, I actually wonder whether the names of these parts were chosen by Araki himself, or by an editor...?

It's only by part 6, when the editors decided that having a series with so many volumes was detrimental and they needed to reboot the numbering, that they started adding the subtitle to the name of the series with "Stone Ocean", and then replacing the name with SBR.

I think.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
What I remember is that at least "Phantom Blood" and "Battle Tendency" are apocryphal. Stardust Crusader, I'm not sure, but I never called it like that until years later. I think one of the subtitles at the time was "未来への遺産", "Heritage for the future", which was used in the Capcom game as well.
As for Part 5, I remember different names: 黄金の遺産(Golden heritage), 黄金体験 (Gold Experience), 黄金の風 (golden wind)... The Capcom game was also called Golden Wind, but with different kanji (黄金の旋風). They only started using italian (Parte 5 Vento Aureo) much, much later.
Part 4 started as "Part 4 Higashikata Jôsuke", then got the subtitle "ダイヤモンドは砕けない" in the rerelease in bunko format, with the hilarious subtitle "Diamond is not crash".
Now, I actually wonder whether the names of these parts were chosen by Araki himself, or by an editor...?

It's only by part 6, when the editors decided that having a series with so many volumes was detrimental and they needed to reboot the numbering, that they started adding the subtitle to the name of the series with "Stone Ocean", and then replacing the name with SBR.

I think.
I actually found out about all this by looking at the Wikipedia pages for each part, which lists the subtitles as of original publication. Part 6 was "Jolyne Kujo: Stone Ocean.", so kinda a transition point between the old and new naming, wheras Steel Ball Run and Jojolion have always just been that.

I'd heard about the "heritage for the future" title in relation to the game but didn't Kno that was the original name of part 3 til i started looking into this.

by the way, can I just say that "Phantom Blood" is an extremely dope title for a story? I got chills when i watched the anime for the first time and saw the title card at the end.

(kinda wish that first season emphasized those titles more, battle tendency is especially "blink and you'll miss it")
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,318
I'd heard about the "heritage for the future" title in relation to the game but didn't Kno that was the original name of part 3 til i started looking into this.
I'm not sure it was the original name! I *remember* it from that time, but my memory is not super reliable (Especially more than 20 years later). Especially because I remember that it was surprising the Giorno game didn't use the "normal" subtitle and changed the kanji 風 to 旋風 , while "the previous one had the normal subtitle of Heritage for the Future". It was one of the names, but I'm really not sure if that was official, a convention, something added in some guide book...
... Now I think of it, wasn't "Stardust Crusaders" also called "Stardust Travellers" at some point?

..... Damn I'm old.

Erigu , do you remember better?
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
Yeah, as far as I understand, originally there was no such division between "parts", it was just "JoJo's Bizarre Adventure", and then at some point between part 6 and part 7 they were rereleased separated by each part, and given subtitles for each, so before this Part 5 was like, for example, volume 30 of the manga, and with the new way each part acts as if it was its own manga.
I thought part 6 actually began the whole "each part is its own volume" thing? and as far as I know part 1 was explicitly called "part 1" from the beginning
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
I'm not sure it was the original name! I *remember* it from that time, but my memory is not super reliable (Especially more than 20 years later). Especially because I remember that it was surprising the Giorno game didn't use the "normal" subtitle and changed the kanji 風 to 旋風 , while "the previous one had the normal subtitle of Heritage for the Future". It was one of the names, but I'm really not sure if that was official, a convention, something added in some guide book...
... Now I think of it, wasn't "Stardust Crusaders" also called "Stardust Travellers" at some point?

..... Damn I'm old.
Wikipedia says "In its original publication, it was known as JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 3 Jotaro Kujo: Heritage for the Future."

that's basically all they say about each original title hence my confusion about the timeline.
 

Mariip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,351
It's only by part 6, when the editors decided that having a series with so many volumes was detrimental and they needed to reboot the numbering, that they started adding the subtitle to the name of the series with "Stone Ocean", and then replacing the name with SBR.
It took them a while huh? Nowadays this choice feels so natural i’m surprised to know they only started it with SO
 

JKuch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
545
I thought part 6 actually began the whole "each part is its own volume" thing? and as far as I know part 1 was explicitly called "part 1" from the beginning
Huh, I stand corrected then, it does seem like it always had the concept of parts, the only thing that changed in rereleases was the subtitle for each part and resetting the volume count each new part.

Edit: It's also really bizarre heh to think that in the original release you could buy a volume that halfway through changed parts, so you could buy volume 5 and read the end of part 1 and the beginning of part 2, or volume 12 and read the end of part 2 and the very beginning of part 3.
 
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Mariip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,351

I guess the anime thrread gonna become a dub thread so im posting it here xD

still kinda crazy when you think diavolo was sorta responsible for SDC and DiU, fucking arrow scavenger.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535

I guess the anime thrread gonna become a dub thread so im posting it here xD

still kinda crazy when you think diavolo was sorta responsible for SDC and DiU, fucking arrow scavenger.
its so good as a metaphor: he's the devil who gave out the forbidden fruit, which ALSO mirrors his proliferation of drugs.

One of the reasons I like Diavolo is he isn't an attempt to top dio, but the grimier and scummier inverse of dio: he doesn't consider himself above everyone else, he revels in being "below", unseen, unknown, stealing bits of peoples souls so carefully they don't even notice.

---

JKuch

Yeah its definitely a much different experience coming into the series now than it would have been then, just in terms of how clearly demarcated everything has become.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,699
its so good as a metaphor: he's the devil who gave out the forbidden fruit, which ALSO mirrors his proliferation of drugs.

One of the reasons I like Diavolo is he isn't an attempt to top dio, but the grimier and scummier inverse of dio: he doesn't consider himself above everyone else, he revels in being "below", unseen, unknown, stealing bits of peoples souls so carefully they don't even notice.

---

JKuch

Yeah its definitely a much different experience coming into the series now than it would have been then, just in terms of how clearly demarcated everything has become.
Dude is less flashy than Dio and Kira "Nobody notice me with my purple suit, hand fetish and skull tie as I monologue to myself and fist this sandwich with this woman's hand" Yoshikage, but he's eviler than the two of them and created them. So much wouldn't have happened if he just never found the fucking arrows. I think he's in a way even responsible for Pucci. Diavolo thinking he's better than anybody is sort of a front as well, he's honestly no better than Ciccolatta as well.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
Dude is less flashy than Dio and Kira "Nobody notice me with my purple suit, hand fetish and skull tie as I monologue to myself and fist this sandwich with this woman's hand" Yoshikage, but he's eviler than the two of them and created them. So much wouldn't have happened if he just never found the fucking arrows. I think he's in a way even responsible for Pucci. Diavolo thinking he's better than anybody is sort of a front as well, he's honestly no better than Ciccolatta as well.
honestly i think he hates Cioccolatta solely because he lacks any form of subtlety or restraint, and Secco because he's subservient and straight-forward. their way of fighting is the opposite of his, as are their aspirations.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,699
honestly i think he hates Cioccolatta solely because he lacks any form of subtlety or restraint, and Secco because he's subservient and straight-forward. their way of fighting is the opposite of his, as are their aspirations.
With Cioccolata and Secco there's on bullshit regarding where they stand. At the very least Cioccolata never talked down to people the way Diavolo did.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
With Cioccolata and Secco there's on bullshit regarding where they stand. At the very least Cioccolata never talked down to people the way Diavolo did.
I don't know if i'd agree with that... he's literally shown to have driven people to suicide by saying manipulative things to them, and his "relationship" with secco is all about talking down.

Diavolo on the other hand makes it a point to show a twisted form of respect to every person he fights directly. He compliments Bruno, Risotto, and Polnareff during their encounters... and then transitions into why he feels justified in killing them because of what he respects about them.

He maintains his meticulous and restrained facade up until the final fight, where he slowly unravels starting from the point where Giorno figures out he's hiding in one of their bodies, and culminating in Bucciarati's destruction of Silver Chariot Requiem.

The point where Giorno's arrow pierces Gold Experience is the first time he ever explicitly underestimates and talks down (literally) to a person he's in combat with. (Though even then he makes sure to circle around to the back before striking, as is his signature move)
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,699
I don't know if i'd agree with that... he's literally shown to have driven people to suicide by saying manipulative things to them, and his "relationship" with secco is all about talking down.

Diavolo on the other hand makes it a point to show a twisted form of respect to every person he fights directly. He compliments Bruno, Risotto, and Polnareff during their encounters... and then transitions into why he feels justified in killing them because of what he respects about them.

He maintains his meticulous and restrained facade up until the final fight, where he slowly unravels starting from the point where Giorno figures out he's hiding in one of their bodies, and culminating in Bucciarati's destruction of Silver Chariot Requiem.

The point where Giorno's arrow pierces Gold Experience is the first time he ever explicitly underestimates and talks down (literally) to a person he's in combat with. (Though even then he makes sure to circle around to the back before striking, as is his signature move)
With Cioccolatta I see him as subconsciously depraved and he's acting that way to get what he wants. He's basically an animal getting his food when he's talking down to the elderly to get them to commit suicide. He's not doing it because he thinks he better than them the way I feel Diavolo does it. I'm probably describing it wrong but I definitely don't see Diavolo and Cioccolatta as one in the same and I don't read their motives the same way.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
With Cioccolatta I see him as subconsciously depraved and he's acting that way to get what he wants. He's basically an animal getting his food when he's talking down to the elderly to get them to commit suicide. He's not doing it because he thinks he better than them the way I feel Diavolo does it. I'm probably describing it wrong but I definitely don't see Diavolo and Cioccolatta as one in the same and I don't read their motives the same way.
i understand what you're saying.
The way Cioccolatta describes it though, he "feels blessed" when he sees someone else falling into despair. Which paints his sadism as coming from a very human place: insecurity. he lowers people to feel better about himself.

Diavolo does indeed think he's more deserving than everyone else, but he only attacks when directly threatened. he never goes out of his way to enter conflict.

But i also want to say: I agree that he's not better than Cioccolatta. After all, he's the one who gave him a Stand. Diavolo is an enabler and a dealer at his core, and despite his disdain for those he afflicts and encourages, he's still responsible for the harm they do and the harm done to them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,699
i understand what you're saying.
The way Cioccolatta describes it though, he "feels blessed" when he sees someone else falling into despair. Which paints his sadism as coming from a very human place: insecurity. he lowers people to feel better about himself.

Diavolo does indeed think he's more deserving than everyone else, but he only attacks when directly threatened. he never goes out of his way to enter conflict.

But i also want to say: I agree that he's not better than Cioccolatta. After all, he's the one who gave him a Stand. Diavolo is an enabler and a dealer at his core, and despite his disdain for those he afflicts and encourages, he's still responsible for the harm they do and the harm done to them.
Would love to know what that asshole would think if he witnessed Dio's and Kira's antics and how responsible he was for it, then again. Dude peddled drugs. He'd probably usher up to Kira and Dio and go, "yo...how can I profit off the shit you're doing? KIra. You gotta hand fetish, how about you give me the hands and I'll get someone to make recreations of them before you explode them, no DNA, but you get to fist your mouth with them? You cool with that?" I really don't think there's a road low enough for Diavolo as long as he sees a buck from it.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
Would love to know what that asshole would think if he witnessed Dio's and Kira's antics and how responsible he was for it, then again. Dude peddled drugs. He'd probably usher up to Kira and Dio and go, "yo...how can I profit off the shit you're doing? KIra. You gotta hand fetish, how about you give me the hands and I'll get someone to make recreations of them before you explode them, no DNA, but you get to fist your mouth with them? You cool with that?" I really don't think there's a road low enough for Diavolo as long as he sees a buck from it.
absolutely. he wouldn't care about a serial killer that targets women, as most of his employees are male. simple as that.

He would definitely have been worried if Dio took over the entire world though, lol.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,699
absolutely. he wouldn't care about a serial killer that targets women, as most of his employees are male. simple as that.

He would definitely have been worried if Dio took over the entire world though, lol.
"Dio, you can have the world, but just leave me Italy, but do you really think you have the time to handle all of the drug trade? I can take that off your hands, even handle some of the operations while you sleep during the day." Diavolo is not above the grift and I could see him doing something. Dude's a desperate piece of shit.

This is the real Diavolo, he's just low and petty masquerading as a higher being. Lol dude's also a fucking sexist.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
"Dio, you can have the world, but just leave me Italy, but do you really think you have the time to handle all of the drug trade? I can take that off your hands, even handle some of the operations while you sleep during the day." Diavolo is not above the grift and I could see him doing something. Dude's a desperate piece of shit.

This is the real Diavolo, he's just low and petty masquerading as a higher being. Lol dude's also a fucking sexist.
you know you're right. he would be happy to be dio's minion... but he would try to kill him at some point. and Dio would not respect him enough to spare him.

EDIT: I love that moment where he's begging bruno. he's fully lost sight of reality (appropriate considering what happens next)
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,699
you know you're right. he would be happy to be dio's minion... but he would try to kill him at some point. and Dio would not respect him enough to spare him.
Yeah pretty much I think Diavolo would be fine working for Dio until he finds out about the Requiem arrow or he just gets drunk off power and starts to pose a threat for Dio. It's really weird how I came around on Diavolo with the anime, I didn't like him when I first read him, but the anime and the subtext that I was able to read with him and the discussions really flesh out this creep.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
bit out of left field, but i've been listening to the vol 1 ost again (AGAIN) and its reminding me of how well they used pace in the anime.


the 3 times i remember are right before Bruno and Trish go to meet the boss, when abbacchio is in the afterlife, and of course, during the end of sleeping slaves.

The first and last moments do a thing where on every staccato note of the piano they cut between the faces of the gang, which is so affecting especially when it goes though ALL of them in the latter moment. it's at about 2:31 where those notes start hitting.

Out of all the emotional moments in the show, none have hit me as hard as the reveal of rolling stone's powdery form creating the faces of those who were lost. It's not just that it reminds you of them, but the realization that this was the best path, that their sacrifice truly meant something and had weight. It's both validating and heartbreaking. I'm so happy they used this track there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,699
bit out of left field, but i've been listening to the vol 1 ost again (AGAIN) and its reminding me of how well they used pace in the anime.


the 3 times i remember are right before Bruno and Trish go to meet the boss, when abbacchio is in the afterlife, and of course, during the end of sleeping slaves.

The first and last moments do a thing where on every staccato note of the piano they cut between the faces of the gang, which is so affecting especially when it goes though ALL of them in the latter moment. it's at about 2:31 where those notes start hitting.

Out of all the emotional moments in the show, none have hit me as hard as the reveal of rolling stone's powdery form creating the faces of those who were lost. It's not just that it reminds you of them, but the realization that this was the best path, that their sacrifice truly meant something and had weight. It's both validating and heartbreaking. I'm so happy they used this track there.
They were fated to die, they died for a good cause, but you really didn't want them to die. That Sleeping Slaves reveal hit hard.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
ok folks, I have a confession. Whenever I've talked about King Crimson, I've intentionally avoided one specific topic: how diavolo is able to walk while in erased time.

Now, if all King Crimson was doing was Erasing time, this wouldn't be anything significant. But as was shown in the Risotto fight, King Crimson actually removes itself and its user from existence during the erased time, meaning anything that would have effected either of them would pass through harmlessly, and not cause a result the way it would for normal people.

So, if no physical object can interact with King Crimson or its user while time is being erased, how is the ground interacting with the soles of Diavolo's feet?

EDIT: I actually talked myself out of my explanation here, I must confess I still think he can't interact with anything conventionally, but i'd be curious if anyone can come up with an explanation that doesn't require that to be false?

I love this stand power, it's been really fun getting to know it after all the rumors i'd heard over the years
 
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Oct 25, 2017
19,699
ok folks, I have a confession. Whenever I've talked about King Crimson, I've intentionally avoided one specific topic: how diavolo is able to walk while in erased time.

Now, if all King Crimson was doing was Erasing time, this wouldn't be anything significant. But as was shown in the Risotto fight, King Crimson actually removes itself and its user from existence during the erased time, meaning anything that would have effected either of them would pass through harmlessly, and not cause a result the way it would for normal people.

So, if no physical object can interact with King Crimson or its user while time is being erased, how is the ground interacting with the soles of Diavolo's feet?

EDIT: I actually talked myself out of my explanation here, I must confess I still think he can't interact with anything conventionally, but i'd be curious if anyone can come up with an explanation that doesn't require that to be false?

I love this stand power, it's been really fun getting to know it after all the rumors i'd heard over the years
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,318
ok folks, I have a confession. Whenever I've talked about King Crimson, I've intentionally avoided one specific topic: how diavolo is able to walk while in erased time.

Now, if all King Crimson was doing was Erasing time, this wouldn't be anything significant. But as was shown in the Risotto fight, King Crimson actually removes itself and its user from existence during the erased time, meaning anything that would have effected either of them would pass through harmlessly, and not cause a result the way it would for normal people.

So, if no physical object can interact with King Crimson or its user while time is being erased, how is the ground interacting with the soles of Diavolo's feet?

EDIT: I actually talked myself out of my explanation here, I must confess I still think he can't interact with anything conventionally, but i'd be curious if anyone can come up with an explanation that doesn't require that to be false?

I love this stand power, it's been really fun getting to know it after all the rumors i'd heard over the years
I mean, it's like when DIO stops time and moves through the immobile air molecules. He probably pushes them forward, but then when the time starts again there should be an immense vacuum/tornado effect.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
I mean, it's like when DIO stops time and moves through the immobile air molecules. He probably pushes them forward, but then when the time starts again there should be an immense vacuum/tornado effect.
what we saw with dio and the knives was that time actually moves normally around the things he interacts with, but once they leave his body they freeze again. so in essence he isn't actually moving at infinite speed like you might assume, his actions just complete instantly. because obviously if he was moving at infinite speed, striking an object lightly with his hand would likely make it literally explode, as well as doing damage to his hand.

So its more like adding extra time to the universe that no one else can move in unless interacted with, and even then only unconsciously. makes the fact that pucci can accelerate frozen time to make jotaro's timestops shorter make sense: it basically is its own "realm".

Jaded Photographer , I love that clip lol. I dont necessarily think that would happen, because I think NO force should be able to act on king crimson while he doesn't exist. including gravity.

perhaps only the things he wants to act on him can do so... meaning it literally actually 100% ~Just Works~
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,318
what we saw with dio and the knives was that time actually moves normally around the things he interacts with, but once they leave his body they freeze again. so in essence he isn't actually moving at infinite speed like you might assume, his actions just complete instantly. because obviously if he was moving at infinite speed, striking an object lightly with his hand would likely make it literally explode, as well as doing damage to his hand.

So its more like adding extra time to the universe that no one else can move in unless interacted with, and even then only unconsciously. makes the fact that pucci can accelerate frozen time to make jotaro's timestops shorter make sense: it basically is its own "realm".
Still, what happens to air molecules in this realm? Are they all free to move and push each other without limitation of radius? When Dio has gone to get the road roller, he has covered a rather big distance with a huge object, disturbing the flow of a big volume of gas. Even if the molecules he interacts with move, it's not like it's a chain reaction and all the air molecules flow naturally. After all, the pieces of the cat he made explode would have fallen on the ground if they did.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
Still, what happens to air molecules in this realm? Are they all free to move and push each other without limitation of radius? When Dio has gone to get the road roller, he has covered a rather big distance with a huge object, disturbing the flow of a big volume of gas. Even if the molecules he interacts with move, it's not like it's a chain reaction and all the air molecules flow naturally. After all, the pieces of the cat he made explode would have fallen on the ground if they did.
as he moves he creates a trail of unfrozen space that freezes again after he moves away. that space is free to interact with objects outside of it as much as it normally would, ie the displacement of air he creates has the same effect it would have on the entirety of the atmosphere in non-frozen time.

the cat's body parts didnt fall to the ground because it was only touched by him for a second and wasnt moving very fast, wheras the knives he threw travelled longer before stopping since they were kept on his person and thrown with more force.

i think its a much less complex power to think of excuses for honestly
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,318
....
I am still not convinced. It actually bothers me much more than King Crimson.
So, if no physical object can interact with King Crimson or its user while time is being erased, how is the ground interacting with the soles of Diavolo's feet?
I just think he phases through things and decides what he interacts with. Like when he was sucked into the turtle, yet appeared on top of the stairs. To me, he just phased through the ground like he were Secco (if Sticky Fingers can do almost the same, there's no reason KC can't either). That's also how he leaves hotel rooms without having to open doors or windows, he just phases through the walls so no one sees him entering or leaving.
There's a slight "pop" where he vanishes, and the air is pushed away slightly where he appears again. Easy.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
....
I am still not convinced. It actually bothers me much more than King Crimson.

I just think he phases through things and decides what he interacts with. Like when he was sucked into the turtle, yet appeared on top of the stairs. To me, he just phased through the ground like he were Secco (if Sticky Fingers can do almost the same, there's no reason KC can't either). That's also how he leaves hotel rooms without having to open doors or windows, he just phases through the walls so no one sees him entering or leaving.
There's a slight "pop" where he vanishes, and the air is pushed away slightly where he appears again. Easy.
well the thing is since time is being erased there shouldn't be any effect on the environment, Time should just assume he got there naturally before the skip, right? just like everyone else? it's never implied he cant breath during erased time or anything like that, so oxygen can "enter" his lungs, even though he's the only one who would percieve the causality that led to said oxygen being in his lungs when time resumes.

and I'm not so sure i buy the phasing thing necessarily, since it seems potentially dangerous when time resumes and is starting to sound like an entirely separate ability, one that has to do with space rather than time. Plus he ripped open the ceiling of the elevator to get in, which seems to disprove that. i always thought he just closed the window when he left the landlady.

it seems more like there are just some things he can influence and some things he can't. or perhaps that he isnt actually using friction or physical mass to take steps, but is just able to move throughout the world of nonexistence soley through the power of his stand, and all of the steps he takes are basically just instinctually miming the act of walking, as he can still only move as fast as he'd be physically able to in realtime. hes basically being pulled by an invisible force rather than any real physical property. and for breathing his stand is generating artificial oxygen and co2 while his lungs mime that action. this could explain why he has a limitation on how long he can use his ability: all of the upkeep power being spent on maintaining his physical functions and autonomy.

OR: as soon as he triggers king crimson, he becomes his future self standing in the same place he was 10 seconds in the past. he doesn't need to breathe because he's frozen in the basic state he will be in in 10 seconds, and he can move because he is fated to move, so he doesn't need any physical laws to be active. bullets and physical objects will not affect him because he is outside of his "correct" time, and will be until the time erasure ends.

the fact that his "world" doesn't actually exist is something that's hard to grasp, but i think very important.
 
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Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
what are the odds that jojolion will have the series' first real romance scene between josuke and yasuho? so much of the story focuses on the darkness and positivity of sexuality and relationships, it feels like it would be fitting for them to get a Not-PG moment together. plus it could have another four balls gag. (pun not intended)
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,699
....
I am still not convinced. It actually bothers me much more than King Crimson.

I just think he phases through things and decides what he interacts with. Like when he was sucked into the turtle, yet appeared on top of the stairs. To me, he just phased through the ground like he were Secco (if Sticky Fingers can do almost the same, there's no reason KC can't either). That's also how he leaves hotel rooms without having to open doors or windows, he just phases through the walls so no one sees him entering or leaving.
There's a slight "pop" where he vanishes, and the air is pushed away slightly where he appears again. Easy.
Wait so Diavolo is now also Mirio Togata?
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,422
what are the odds that jojolion will have the series' first real romance scene between josuke and yasuho? so much of the story focuses on the darkness and positivity of sexuality and relationships, it feels like it would be fitting for them to get a Not-PG moment together. plus it could have another four balls gag. (pun not intended)
I’m down for an Araki sex scene.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
From lucca con
One fan theory down?
aw boo. i wonder what exactly he means by popularity, probably not referring to the relationship between Jolyne and him and more to having more even gender rep in his story.

ah well. i came around on him in the end. though his stand probably had the shortest turnaround in terms of "cool ability reveal" > "mostly mundane uses for the majority of the story".

i do like that the idea he can fully inhabit the things he phases into came about, but for a while there he kinda seemed like he had a stand with no ability, just the form.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
i feel like diver down had more use than the hand in general but it's been a while since i've read part 6
oh absolutely, but its just i always thought every stand other than physically manifested ones could phase into people and things. like how jotaro stops his own heart. i guess diver down has more precision and control about it?

(also i think i forgot which hand The Hand actually uses, it might be the right one)
 

Fulminator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,015
oh absolutely, but its just i always thought every stand other than physically manifested ones could phase into people and things. like how jotaro stops his own heart. i guess diver down has more precision and control about it?

(also i think i forgot which hand The Hand actually uses, it might be the right one)
has there been another stand that could do that/was seen doing that aside from star platinum?

also i think it's the right hand, not 100%
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,535
has there been another stand that could do that/was seen doing that aside from star platinum?

also i think it's the right hand, not 100%
Kakyoin phases Heirophant into the ground while it's active in order to bring it into the dream world with him.

Jotaro also does this to send Star Platinum's hand through a small gap in order to pick up a piece of jewelry and pull it back out through the gap, in a manner that'd be impossible if his hand wasn't phasing through.

It feels like it was considered a default stand ability during part 3, then was forgotten about and became a stand's entire ability later on. though to be fair, many stardust stands didn't have obvious flashy abilities outside their physical form having some unique features. it's implied that makes them strong since they're so simple.

EDIT: the moment when Diavolo showed the utmost respect for Polnareff's stand despite its only "powers" being its physical abilities was pretty much all i needed to feel like the disparity between part 3 and 4-6 stands made sense. maybe i should just consider Diver Down a way of getting back to basics in the midst of a part that's VERY not basic.
 
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