I'm interested in why you feel the tone is depressing.
Do you feel like the movie is nihilistic?
Wait did he actually kill his neighbor? Cause all we see is him entering her apartment, imitating putting a gun to his head and going back to his place. I mean in context it would make sense, but it felt more like him confronting his delusions before fully becoming the monster.Saw the film. Thought it was fine. Good not great. Definitely had the vibe of a Scorsese/arthouse imitation. A lot of beautiful cinematography + Joaquin acting and hoping it would equal depth, but sometimes it rang hollow like the director didn't quite know the message they wanted. Joker does mention society and inspires an uprising, but it's kept vague as to how real any of it is. The whole him killing a woman for rejecting him is bullshit, she's basically just a stranger who ends up as collateral due to his mental break. I guess the plot doesn't read well on paper, but it seems relatively clear that it isn't pro-violence or incel-ism or whatever. It's quite straight forwardly about mental illness and domestic/societal abuse. Also Joaquin is great even if I don't love some of the direction, it's a shame he only really gets 10 minutes as villain Joker because his whole demeanor changes and he seems like he would be a chilling villain but it's really just the ending. He's not really competing with Ledger or Nicholson in that respect.
The film got applause, which is the first time I've ever seen in a public screening. No laughs from the audience except at the sake of the character with dwarfism at the most violent point in the movie, which was an odd choice. Like it was a well done joke but uhhhhhhhhhhhh
After the encounter with the neighbor it cuts to him in his apartment with sirens in the backgrounds and the sound of doors getting burst open and you don't see her for the rest of the film. The implication was certainly that something bad went down, and if she was alive and called the cops they would've gone to his apartment but they didn't. The other deaths in the film are explicit, but I mean, it might've been for the best to not show that one.Wait did he actually kill his neighbor? Cause all we see is him entering her apartment, imitating putting a gun to his head and going back to his place. I mean in context it would make sense, but it felt more like him confronting his delusions before fully becoming the monster.
Also it didn't feel like an imitation as much as it felt like Scorcese was nudging Todd along as the EP and helping him get the feel of his movies as close as possible. The metaphorical use of the stairs, the dance scene in the public bathrooms, the face painting scene it was Todd through and through, but White Room blasting over the tracking shot of the Police Car was Scorsese putting his hands in the pie. Same with the Arkham breakout right after.
Scorsese did not work on the film. He was attached at one point, but dropped out fairly early due scheduling conflicts. I think Irishman has kept him very busy with the extensive post production.Wait did he actually kill his neighbor? Cause all we see is him entering her apartment, imitating putting a gun to his head and going back to his place. I mean in context it would make sense, but it felt more like him confronting his delusions before fully becoming the monster.
Also it didn't feel like an imitation as much as it felt like Scorcese was nudging Todd along as the EP and helping him get the feel of his movies as close as possible. The metaphorical use of the stairs, the dance scene in the public bathrooms, the face painting scene it was Todd through and through, but White Room blasting over the tracking shot of the Police Car was Scorsese putting his hands in the pie. Same with the Arkham breakout right after.
White Room was fitting considering what the film portrays and what the lyrics described. If anything Gary Glitter on the stairs was far more jarring especially how it was supposed to be the complete opposite of the other two scenes.After the encounter with the neighbor it cuts to him in his apartment with sirens in the backgrounds and the sound of doors getting burst open and you don't see her for the rest of the film. The implication was certainly that something bad went down, and if she was alive and called the cops they would've gone to his apartment but they didn't. The other deaths in the film are explicit, but I mean, it might've been for the best to not show that one.
White Room just seemed like cribbing Scorsese. It was jarring. I guess we don't know how much input he had if anything, so who knows.
I agree completely on the variation in maturity, my son has friends who I would never take, though to be honest I think they'd get bored as much as anything. As far as violence goes it's mild that ugh shocking when it occurs, I think the issue is about confronting mental illness and the causes leading to it. A lot of teens won't have a clue or will have been sheltered from it. We're pretty up front with our kids but then we both have a medical background.Of course the maturity of teenagers varies, but the way he was talking about his kid, I'd at least tell the dad to watch it first. It's definitely an adult movie compared to the average rock 'em sock 'em violent shooty things.
edit: or the Robocops and T2s we were inappropriately watching as kids.
I just checked and Taxi Driver has an R18 here (NZ). I'd say this is slightly more brutal/unsettling.
The pure depression and downtrodden depiction is worse than the violence . Even a most confidence man would become mad in the circumstances presentedSo for the few who have seen this movie... How bad is the violence? Like is it like a John Wick styled "oh shit" or more... Sadistic horrorish/torture vibe cuz.... I can't see my wife wanting to stick around if its on the darker side. She gets nightmares easy. Hell if its that bad I may not even wanna see it on the big screen either.
Sometimes even the stuff in MK11 pushes it a bit too far for me lol.
So for the few who have seen this movie... How bad is the violence? Like is it like a John Wick styled "oh shit" or more... Sadistic horrorish/torture vibe cuz.... I can't see my wife wanting to stick around if its on the darker side. She gets nightmares easy. Hell if its that bad I may not even wanna see it on the big screen either.
So for the few who have seen this movie... How bad is the violence? Like is it like a John Wick styled "oh shit" or more... Sadistic horrorish/torture vibe cuz.... I can't see my wife wanting to stick around if its on the darker side. She gets nightmares easy. Hell if its that bad I may not even wanna see it on the big screen either.
Sometimes even the stuff in MK11 pushes it a bit too far for me lol.
Joker ventures into the darkest of these places and, although it may be difficult to "like" this film in a conventional sense, it offers a powerful and unforgettable experience that few will find easy to shake.
Is Joker violent? Unquestionably, yes. The violence, however, is designed to shock and upset. It's not there to quench an audience's bloodlust or satiate the desire to see "bad" characters get their comeuppance. The body count is much smaller than in, say, John Wick 3, but each death has more impact. Blood is the currency of Arthur's debasement, the means by which we follow his descent into hell. Some have worried about the "glorification" of violence in this film, but there's no "glorification" evident. Unlike the average horror/slasher film, the opposite is true. Joker doesn't ask for or expect sympathy for the main character, but it demands understanding not only of his situation but of the factors that lead to his gradual transformation from a meek clown to a manically cackling murderer and manipulator of mobs.
I didn't think about it if he killed his neighbor or not but now that you mention it, he might have yea. I thought it was weird how they went so fast from the random where you following me? To straight up kissing instantly. It was too quick, so it just being in his head made a lot of sense. The ending shot with him on the car and the crowd of rioters surrounding him was really cool. He killed the new therapist at the end as well right? That whole scene was kinda weird to me with the scooby doo running around the halls.
And was he Tomas Wayne's son or not? Near the end he was looking at a picture that was signed TW right?
Decent movie, great performance, really well shot. Overall I dug it. The batman universe tie-ins were the weakest stuff. Probably would of been fine without it.
I liked the music score. Eerie as heck. Though there was one part where the music selection totally fucked up the sequence for me. You could kind of tell it had Todd Phillips written all over it. It really took me out of it for a second.
As I said in the other thread, Joaquin is absolutely outstanding, movie is just OK.
Over the top, edgy, rhetorical... As many of these kind of movies it's too much in love with the protagonist (or maybe Phoenix himself), and looks like a justification of his actions more than an explanation.
Also kind of hard to believe Joker wasn't arrested like the day after the murder of the three dudes and that an entire city would riot like that. I actually kinda believe in the end the movie confirms this is just a fantasy.
Don't understand the incel culture arguments. This guy is not a normal incel, is a total sociopath and psychopath. But I could definitely see some people having this persona as their "idol" like it happened with Ledger's Joker.
Nothing in that movie, other than the final scene actually happened. Are people actually walking away from this not thinking it was all(not just the stuff with the neighbor) in his head?
The scene of the mob celebrating joker at the end while visually impressive - I mean, it also sort of didnt make sense. They celebrating a murderer? All had time to watch the tv while they rioting?
ARMOND White has already said this movie sucks. So everything else is moot
'Joker' Review: Are You Kidding Me?
Todd Phillips's supervillain origin story starring Joaquin Phoenix is stirring up a fierce debate, but it's not interesting enough to argue about.
Because Arthur clearly hated Thomas Wayne. Why wouldn't his made up ass story result in him and dying. It's the fact that it is all made up and we don't actually learn anything about Arthur's actual circumstances that makes the movie feel so pointless in the end.they showed how the riot also led to the killing of the waynes. How would any of it not be real?
Because Arthur clearly hated Thomas Wayne. Why wouldn't his made up ass story result in him and dying. It's the fact that it is all made up and we don't actually learn anything about Arthur's actual circumstances that makes the movie feel so pointless in the end.
It's a lot like when you know someone is a compulsive liar and they are making up a story about an event they know about or made up: it sounds weird. Arthur probably just made up or straight up doesn't know exactly how it all came together.they showed how the riot also led to the killing of the waynes. How would any of it not be real?
I would argue that reading would take the movie out of the pointless pile and place it directly into the stupid one.Or... as people said... joker doesn't have an origin story , like the TDK joker he was making things up.
Remember in TDK when Joker told how he got his scars? This might be it in 2 hour format
Amazing film. I expected it to be good but this was on another level. Not sure what to think about the situation with his mom. Was she actually lying or was Thomas just covering it up?