I can see that, it stood out amongst the rest of the film.Isolation. It's one of the few scenes not in-your-face in the whole movie.
I can see that, it stood out amongst the rest of the film.Isolation. It's one of the few scenes not in-your-face in the whole movie.
Symbolic of his transformation, a cocoon in which he emerges as his final self. That or he kills himself and imagines what comes next? As we see throughout the film, he's resigned to live in his own world and is unable to distinguish reality from thought.What was the point of the refrigerator scene? It's the one scene I've been wondering about since seeing it a few days ago.
My first thought was maybe they were too poor for air conditioning and he had to cool down... I dunno
That there was no ambiguity in this film on his upbringing.
What was the point of the refrigerator scene? It's the one scene I've been wondering about since seeing it a few days ago.
My first thought was maybe they were too poor for air conditioning and he had to cool down... I dunno
Huh? I'm saying Arthur wouldn't last more than 5 minutes against any version of batman.hey if the stupid as hell nolan batman could make it to two hours on The dark knight against the joker.
pattinson batman could do it too.
Huh? I'm saying Arthur wouldn't last more than 5 minutes against any version of batman.
I don't agree at all and don't see how the comparison is apt here.and im saying that if the dumb nolan batman could last 2 hours against any joker, the reverse could be true
I don't agree at all and don't see how the comparison is apt here.
Do you have something of value to say or are you just shit posting? I'm not the only one here making this argument. If you have a point to make actually make it or else I'll just put you on ignore and be done with it.you said something stupid, so i said something stupid too, its fine man
Do you have something of value to say or are you just shit posting? I'm not the only one here making this argument. If you have a point to make actually make it or else I'll just put you on ignore and be done with it.
I addressed this on the previous page. IF you want to address the points I made do so. Continuing to post nothing to back up your argument other than calling my argument stupid without addressing why is wasting my time (or even actually making an argument for yourself which youve yet to do). Ive elaborated on my points several times now. Either engage in the conversation or go on ignore. I'm not going to keep responding to drivel with nothing to say.you saying that "this" joker wont last 5 minutes against batman is stupid man, really fucking stupid.
considering that he still has 20 years to grow as a joker.
Society let him out of the fridge.Are not those old refrigerators impossible to open from the inside?
Also, gotta admit, was laughing at the talk show scene when Joker started talking about society, since it reminded me of all those good memes
Huh? I'm saying Arthur wouldn't last more than 5 minutes against any version of batman.
Previous page goes into detail as to why. And I agree with you. But given this is an incredibly unintelligent Joker Batman wouldn't have much trouble with him regardless.Based on what? The Joker isn't a character that you can use violence on to win.
Just saw it, gee what a great feel. The movie constantly had me readjusting myself just because of how uncomfortable it was. Last scene in the talk show was so good and different.
Only thing I didn't like was the flashbacks of Arthur not being with his love interest AFTER they revealed that she didn't know who he was. Felt like Todd Phillips was going to come into the theatre and ask me if I understood the scene
Good cannot be reasonably definedRandall was cruel to him and to his little person coworker and set him up and got him fired.
Murray was just putting him on to demean and debase him.
We're talking about a crazy popular comic book villain. If you give him assholes for targets and have him outright spare nice people... it's not a good receipe imo.
The movie cares too much about Joker, he basically feels like a slasher monster in the late stages of a series, where few give two shits about who he kills.
That's why I think the film is relatively timid and safe. He doesn't truly target "good" people ever, other than maybe the doctor at the end who dies off screen.
You are not a good person because wrestling is bad.
I addressed this on the previous page. IF you want to address the points I made do so. Continuing to post nothing to back up your argument other than calling my argument stupid without addressing why is wasting my time (or even actually making an argument for yourself which youve yet to do). Ive elaborated on my points several times now. Either engage in the conversation or go on ignore. I'm not going to keep responding to drivel with nothing to say.
Are not those old refrigerators impossible to open from the inside?
The argument that this Joker would not be a good foil to Batman is a bit reductive. We don't really get to see any development of the Joker, only his development into the Joker persona.
I would be all for a sequel in which we get to see this new personality develop and how he hones his skills in the art of manipulation and seeding chaos. I have no trouble imagining this Joker transforming into, say, the Joker that Heath Ledger presents us with. We just don't get that opportunity in this film.
.The argument that this Joker would not be a good foil to Batman is a bit reductive. We don't really get to see any development of the Joker, only his development into the Joker persona.
I would be all for a sequel in which we get to see this new personality develop and how he hones his skills in the art of manipulation and seeding chaos. I have no trouble imagining this Joker transforming into, say, the Joker that Heath Ledger presents us with. We just don't get that opportunity in this film.
I saw it as him venting his anger.What the hell was Arthur even doing with that shoe when it's that long shot of his back straining with it? Was he just stretching it out?
What the hell was Arthur even doing with that shoe when it's that long shot of his back straining with it? Was he just stretching it out?
Was wondering the same thing lolWhat the hell was Arthur even doing with that shoe when it's that long shot of his back straining with it? Was he just stretching it out?
French critics (4/5 from Cahiers. Not bad)
...but how could he fight Batman?Weird that people are zeroing in on the "how could he fight Batman" angle when this movie was clearly not about superhero stuff at all.
I'm not sure that the meds stultified Arthur in this manner since the way he behaved on the meds vs off them wasn't that radically different, and we could also say that the meds might also help him function better cognitively given as well just as we could suppose they might inhibit him. But I think the movie gave us enough to go off of, both on the meds and off them, to indicate that he isn't a very intelligent person when it comes down to it. Even when he finally has some agency in the movie its done through his anger as opposed to a calculated act.I think one thing we need to keep in mind is that Arthur was heavily, heavily medicated at the start of the film. Based on his conversation with the social worker, he was taking high doses of at least seven different medications. It's not uncommon at all for medications to have serious side-effects that impair you cognitive abilities, make your perception of reality more cloudy/ muddled, and make it more difficult for you to express yourself. Even more so when you're mixing a ton of medications at once.
Arthur's metamorphosis into the Joker doesn't occur until he's gone cold turkey. He even comments on how things have never been clearer to him after he's off the medications. In the last 20 minutes of the film he starts exhibiting more social awareness (e.g. realizing instantly that Murray is only inviting him on the talk show to mock him), and a certain level of cunning when in tense situations (e.g. sparking a fight on the subway to make things too chaotic for the detectives to apprehend him, and stealing a mask to blend in with the crowd). He also clearly gains more confidence at the end.
I dunno. He's certainly not an intellectual titan, but I don't feel like we can fairly evaluate him based on what we saw in this movie, which was him while he's heavily medicated and at one of the lowest, most depressing, and most emotionally volatile points in his life. He has a lot of potential to grow as a schemer and refine his style.
The funny thing when people bring that up is that is always an argument when it comes to Joker v. Batman. Ledger's Joker just tossed a guy at him and kicked him when he was down.
The funny thing when people bring that up is that is always an argument when it comes to Joker v. Batman. Ledger's Joker just tossed a guy at him and kicked him when he was down.
What do you get when a multi-million dollar corporation decides to capitalize on one of its most popular characters by centering them in a movie that taps into conversations about white domestic terrorism in the United States, incels, and the ways in which folks with mental illnesses are often abandoned by society? You get films like Todd Phillips' Joker, apparently.
Did anyone get the impression that Murray was...not that bad of guy? Like yeah shitting on Arthur by showing his clip and blasting him was messed up, but not necessarily deeply malicious. When it came time to have him on the show, he was really receptive of Arthur backstage, and even during the interview once it started getting crazy, he kept a cool head and seemed to want to learn Arthur's perspective even if he was disgusted with him.
I've just seen a lot of impressions saying that Murray was a massive piece of shit, one of the worst if not the worst in the movie, and I don't agree. To me he kind of represents line between the horrible people and the decent people, and that line became impossible for Arthur to discern by the time he descended into full madness.
Did anyone get the impression that Murray was...not that bad of guy?
It never came across that Murray was a piece of shit. He just crossed paths with Joker.
I don't think the movie had any intention of painting Murray as a bad guy. Instead it makes clear that Arthur has an unhealthy and obsessive view of Murray and his show, with fantasies of being on the show and being told by Murray that he wishes to have a son like Arthur etc
All Murray/the show does is poke fun at the footage of Arthur's stand up routine, which is content talk shows/light entertainment shows have been using every single week in real life for years.
Murray's death is less about him being a bad guy and more about the culmination of Arthur's pathetic and pitiful descent into criminal madness. He is The Joker at that point and Murray is merely the most immediate victim.
Spot onI don't think the movie had any intention of painting Murray as a bad guy. Instead it makes clear that Arthur has an unhealthy and obsessive view of Murray and his show, with fantasies of being on the show and being told by Murray that he wishes to have a son like Arthur etc
All Murray/the show does is poke fun at the footage of Arthur's stand up routine, which is content talk shows/light entertainment shows have been using every single week in real life for years.
Murray's death is less about him being a bad guy and more about the culmination of Arthur's pathetic and pitiful descent into criminal madness. He is The Joker at that point and Murray is merely the most immediate victim.