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JOKER |OT| Viviamo in una società |SPOILERS|
- Thread starter Cpt-GargameL
- Start date
The boyfriend was abusive to both of them. There's a photo of Penny with a black eye in the folder (or this might be in the flashback of her in the police station).
idk man,
puting the door chain seems something natural to do when you are trying to prevent someone from running away.
it is something they will never check before trying to open the door, so by the time they close the door and try to remove the chain, arthur would be onto them already.
Seen it today thought it was alright. Quite unsettling up until the joker actually came out completely from Arthur which is kind of bizarre way to think about it but worked really well within the movie.
Couple of questions though but I could just have missed something
The last scene of Arthur in the hospital where it cuts back to Bruce, his parents and giant rats was a bit strange I suppose something is there the director intended?
Did Arthur say in the beginning that he had been to the hospital yet when he goes to get the records he asked how to get in a place like this?
There was a billboard in the back when Arthur is on top of the car at the end that said "Ace in the hole" I know it's a very popular saying but is this a reference to something? It just stuck out to me because it's used in the dark knight too? or a reference to the movie? Or nothing?
Couple of questions though but I could just have missed something
The last scene of Arthur in the hospital where it cuts back to Bruce, his parents and giant rats was a bit strange I suppose something is there the director intended?
Did Arthur say in the beginning that he had been to the hospital yet when he goes to get the records he asked how to get in a place like this?
There was a billboard in the back when Arthur is on top of the car at the end that said "Ace in the hole" I know it's a very popular saying but is this a reference to something? It just stuck out to me because it's used in the dark knight too? or a reference to the movie? Or nothing?
Where did you get the idea that Thomas abused Arthur as a child?
I don't see any reason to doubt that Penny was mentally disturbed. Her 40 year old son bathes her for christs sake.
i came to the realization that i hate how he looks on that pose
Arthur was looking at a photo of his mother when she was younger and the back of it had TW initials along with a message that said he loved her smile or something along those lines. The look on Alfreds face when Arthur confronted him at the gate reeked of a cover up orchestrated by one of the richest and most powerful man in Gotham. He forged the adoption papers and had her committed to ruin her character.
At least that's what I took from it.
The writing for Penny is so obtuse that it only works if she is mentally disturbed. If that somehow isn't the case, or it is meant to be ambiguous, then her character dialogue fucking blows.
I was hoping he wouldn't be able to help laughing while murdering people, it would have been chilling
There's two points I see in the bathroom scene supporting either direction, one being a Thomas saying he signs autographs for everybody and the other that Thomas punching Arthur could mean he was the abusive boyfriend.
Just cause her son bathes her, doesn't mean she's mentally disturbed. Jesus.
This is also what I took from it. Especially with Alfred's expression.
Especially on my second watch I very much felt Penny never laid a hand on Arthur.
But maybe she wasn't all well, since didn't he get her to sign papers to keep her quiet.
I mean, I also understand the angle, where she's mentally disturbed and was the one abusing Arthur.
Yeah, definitely. It's the primary reason why I don't like the film. Phoenix's acting elevates his character and the movie is incredibly well shot, but that isn't enough to cover up a script I deeply dislike. But in Penny's case, her dialogue that I despised all the way through felt justified by the end because of the reveal concerning her mental state.
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And I thought he looked pretty dope lol (he looked very different)
It's just one of many reasons to believe that Penny is either disabled in a way that isn't made explicit in the movie (Alzheimer's?) and needs someone to tend to her needs or she has psychological problems. Why does Penny need a bath from her son unless she's handicapped or impaired in some way?
The actress who plays her, Frances Conroy, is 66 not 85. Most 66 year old seniors don't need help bathing
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I just didn't agree with her being mentally disturbed just cause she needed her son to shower her, that's all. Sure it could point to her having alzheimers (and I know all about these sicknesses, I'm dealing with it myself in my family). I'm just not convinced she's the one who abused Arthur, as opposed to her boyfriend doing it. If you feel like she abused him, that's fair, I can see that.
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Saw it yesterday, I quite enjoyed it. I thought Joaquin Phoenix did a great job. What really stood out for me was the music though. I loved it.
I've been listening to it all day. Looks like I'll be adding Hildur Guðnadóttir to my list of composers to follow.
I've been listening to it all day. Looks like I'll be adding Hildur Guðnadóttir to my list of composers to follow.
We know from early test screenings that his mother and her boyfriend both originally abused Arthur.
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I want Hildur to work on EVERYTHING. She's extremely talented and I definitely wouldn't mind hearing more of her stuff in movies more frequently.
I actually wasn't arguing for that. I don't think she abused her son. I think her boyfriend, or whoever he was, probably did. And I think Alfred and Thomas were telling the truth about her being delusional. Also, Penny struck me as a woman who would be easily taken advantaged of with the right (or wrong) partner
saw it tonight
Phoenix was indeed amazing. Probably my favorite on screen Joker portrayal. His aesthetic in the movie was amazing as well.
Overall I'd say it was good but not great. Solid 7/10.
Is this meant to be a standalone film?
Phoenix was indeed amazing. Probably my favorite on screen Joker portrayal. His aesthetic in the movie was amazing as well.
Overall I'd say it was good but not great. Solid 7/10.
Is this meant to be a standalone film?
Thought it was really good. Just one of those movies I never really gotta see again. They are totally setting up this Joker to fight Batman.
So it's been confirmed by Todd Phillips that he has 3 laughs in the movie. His condition laugh, his laugh to try to fit in with the people, and just one single genuine laugh at the end when he's talking to the shrink. I believe he is the evil genius that can stand up to Batman and he's just telling a story to the shrink that has some truth to it.
See, all this stuff that's so on the nose and hamfisted and self-seriously pretensious?
That's why it's a good comic book movie! You know how many comics I've read that are just like that?
It's funny to me to think of a director trying to elevate "comic book movies" and still being very firmly a "comic book story" when it comes to the actual ideas present in the film.
Anyway, i love this movie. It's beautiful trash. I've seen it 3 times now (but i think i'm done for the foreseeable future)
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Also, i don't know that it's "society is the real villain" being the real message so much as "society doesn't know how to, or care to, accommodate the damaged, broken and dysfunctional." Is society a villain because it can't cope? I don't think so.
"The worst thing about having a mental illness is people expect you to act like you don't"
And i cant help but think of the scene in which Greg can't reach the door lock when i think about all of that.
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I thought it was pretty weak how the film tries to be sympathetic to marginalised peoples but also uses that character as a punching bag. That said, the moment where he realises he can't get out is one of the highlights of the movie, especially when Arthur scares him before lmao.
i always thought it funny thats its always been depicted as a robbery with the pearls. Why would a robber rip the necklace off? In Joker it makes sense.
I think kind of the point. it is supposed to be disconnected from Arthur story because Arthur doesn't really care one way or another about it at the end of movie he just wants an audience with the masses. If it even happened in the first place.
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I want Hildur Guðnadóttir and Hans Zimmer to work together on a movie. Her with her Cello and Hans with his drums.. by the gods.
Also, I didn't realize that she won the Premio Soundtrack Stars award at the 76th Venice International Film Festival for Joker.
Also, I didn't realize that she won the Premio Soundtrack Stars award at the 76th Venice International Film Festival for Joker.
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Ill have to give it another shot eventually but, didnt love it. Too much build up for the final 30 minutes. You could watch a supercut version of this with the first 90 minutes edited down to 15 and you wouldnt miss much. Phoenix is solid as joker.
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It's very similar to Quentin Tarentino movies where they're a slow burn up until the final 20-30 min. Do with this in mind, I didn't mind it at all.
Good discussion on Fighting in the War Room this week about Joker. They really nailed the variety of reasons why this movie sucks, IMO. Also they don't really spend much time talking about incels, which I was worried would be the case since Ehrlich is on it.
Discussion starts at 30:55.
Discussion starts at 30:55.
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Pretty amazing how Arthur fleck is ascending on the stairs and looked like he struggles on his 9 to 5 job. But when he finally puts on the make up and dances while going down the stairs as if embracing a whole new kind of life.
Funny, I just listened to this. I generally enjoy the podcast and I have been entertained by other podcasts that did not like the Joker – but I feel this panel generally did a poor job criticizing it. A large portion of the discussion is around how this "wasn't a movie" because "nothing happened" which isn't really a particularly compelling critique. They also suggested it was derivative, but that hardly "nailed the variety of reasons why this movie sucks."
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