I don't believe that this is the commentary that Todd was aiming for at all but he may have unintentionally or unconsciously Incorporated these themes into the Joker.My genius thought this up in 5 seconds
Joker is a metacommentary on the white working class.
Joker represents said class. Short sighted. Blames everyone else for their problems that could have easily been avoided. And again, Fleck's pity rant at the end totally screamed how self centered the WWC are.
Noticed how Arthur tried to bond with Thomas Wayne only to be punched and threatened to be killed. Similar to how the wwc always cozy up to the rich conservatives assholes who keeps screwing them over.
Meanwhile, he just kills the Jay Leno character, the well meaning but condescending rich liberal who either gave a damn about him or at least was smart enough to fake it. And again, he at least called Joker on his toxic mindset, something a liberal is more likely to do.
The brown looking kids stealing Arthur's sign at the beginning of the movie represents the wwc's view on latinos trying take their jobs.
The first black psychiatrist not looking like she could be bothered to listened to Arthur is how the wwc's view black people as self centered and lazy. And I don't think I have to explain how Joker killing the second one symbolizes how it was the wwc who were committing terrorist attacks during the Civil Rights Era and even today.
Zazie's character represents how the wwc thinks black people should act. Always being kind and supportive to the wwc while not reciprocating the favor back. Noticed how during Joker's hallucinations of the relationship, we never see him imagine bonding with Zazie's daughter or support whatever thing Zazie does. Or even THINKS she does. The emotional support was one sided.
The clown protesters are the alt right. They put Joker on an undeserving pedal and it feeds into his toxic behavior. Like how Nazis do that towards the wwc "No you're not racist. They really are like that"
The three yuppies on the subway represents how the wwc won't do anything about a problem until it affects them. Harassing that woman? It's wrong, but what do you want me to do? Not my problem. When they turn their ire on me? I'm bringing out the gun.
Speaking of which, Arthur's complete mishandling of firearm safety is peak white working class.
So guys? "I agree" or "I really agree" or "what the fuck is wrong with you, NoName999"? :P
Edit: The 2nd therapist can also represent sincere liberals trying to listen to the wwc. And like Joker, the wwc kills that kindness by continuing to vote Republican
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
JOKER |OT| Viviamo in una società |SPOILERS|
- Thread starter Cpt-GargameL
- Start date
I don't believe that this is the commentary that Todd was aiming for at all but he may have unintentionally or unconsciously Incorporated these themes into the Joker.
Great post. Spot on with everything.
The scene with Bruce also felt to me like hamfisted manipulation of the audience. They are clearly trying to present Arthur as some sort of very strange creeper who comfortably touches children he barely knows in creepy ways like putting his thumbs inside his mouth to form the big smile. Yes you do need to get across to the audience that this is not a good guy, he is deranged, delusional and dangerous but you don't need to play up something as emotionally charged as harming children or creepy men hanging around and being touchy feely with them to get your point across. That only serves to vilify mental illness as inherently evil when it's not.
I just hate the whole concept of the Joker being a mentally ill patient. He's not.
Joker chooses evil because that's the only rational choice in his mind
Joker chooses evil because that's the only rational choice in his mind
Yeah why even bother attaching the Batman franchise, other than obvious marketing reasons?
Performance was intense, but this was a terrible Joker.
Being evil is not a societal norm. We don't accept evil as normal behavior. Of course being evil is going to be categorized as a mental illness.
It was a phenomenal Joker and I'd love to see Phoenix vs. Pattinson.
I don't think it was a terrible joker. But after the movie all i could think of was, man that was joaquin phoenix, even with makeup on. Whereas i dont even recognize heath ledger as the joker.
i thought it was good, not great.
Though i definitely want a batman set in this reality. Its extremely dark, violent and gritty.
OP
OP
Saw it last night and both my GF and I was in awe of this movie. Loved it! Surely Phoenix must be nominated for an Oscar for this.
The movie felt like it took taxi driver and king of comedy and poured them into a joker mug. I enjoyed it at a lot. I am still thinking about what was real and what wasnt. The end at the comedy show felt like a dream, kissing the old lady, the audience cheering, the revolution taking off, wayne dying.
Just rewatched the scene where Arthur shoots De Niro, it's fucking chilling
The italian dub also is incredible, major props to our guys
The italian dub also is incredible, major props to our guys
Nominated? I don't see how he doesn't win.
It was a spectacular performance. Whether you liked the movie or not.
Tod Phillips basically said this wasn't anything meaningful and it was just the production design being funny.More evidence that the whole movie was in his head.
It HaS nOtHiNg To SaY!
I see this being said by a lot of liberal-leaning critics who input their politics into their critique of the movie. Maybe it would have rated better with them if Joker ended up dying at the hands of Batgirl who is actually a young Hillary Clinton in disguise.
The movie has lots of things to say. It is okay if you don't like what it has to say, though.
Critics have really shown their asses with the drama around this movie though. Specially compared to how they rate Marvel's popcorn flicks.
I'm not as high on the movie as most but I absolutely loved the original score.
Also kinda wish the film ended with the smile lol.
Also kinda wish the film ended with the smile lol.
Me too. Having said that, I did really enjoy the bloody footprints and Scooby Doo chase scene finale. Incorporated Joker's goofball, cartoonish comedy aspects with the brutal, murderous, ultra-violent side quite well in my opinion.
The issue people have with the themes of the movie is that hey feel undercooked and even sometimes internaly contradictory, not that it needed and extra protagonist and potentially more undercooked ideas.
SAying you felt like this movie was a three course meal to you is 100% valid, I can't take that a way from you. Framing people who left the cinema wanting more as "liberal critics who crave Clinton" shows your ass more than anything.
Saw it last night, and it's up there for my favorite movie of the year so far. However, the fact that this is a standalone movie and not going to lead into the new Batman movie is disappointing to me. No way Phoenix doesn't walk away with at least an Oscar nomination.
I should've seen that Zazie Beetz character wasn't real from how she reacted about Arthur following her.
I should've seen that Zazie Beetz character wasn't real from how she reacted about Arthur following her.
With the box office numbers this movie is doing, any plan on making this a one off is surely out the window.
He might not be the "real" joker in the next Batman movies, but we will definitely see Joaquin again.
OP
OP
Just watched it again. First movie that I bought tickets to watch again. It's crazy how the movie delivered all of that feeling rollercoaster again. The curious thing is that I expected the theather room to be empty but there were a lot of people and lines to buy ticket. Wtf. I wonder if people are watching of the first time or are rewatching it.
Just came out of it. Wow it was very unsettling. The tension just never lets up the whole movie. Even after he has fully become the Joker persona I was waiting for crazy shit to just happen. The whole first half was anxiety with that damn soundtrack playing as he's around Zazie and I was so scared about what might happen.
It is a great character study. I really want him back as Joker for a Batman movie. He was fantastic. He really felt more like the comic Joker (as opposed to Ledgers straight chaotic evil). Like how he just shoots Murray then sits there and is bouncing his legs like no big deal, then gets up shoots him again because he thinks it's funny, then it looks like he will shoot again and decides not to and just nonchalantly flips/throws the gun away.
There was one really cringey moment with my theater audience. It was when the meme happens (with Randall in the apartment). Someone burst out with a really high forced laugh at the doorlock.
It was bad. Ugh.
I agree.
A scene that really sticks out to me was when he was about to go on to the show. It looks like he is doing another dance routine but it looks less like a dance and more like he is transforming. I think it's a reference to when someone mentions werewolves (I think Arthur mentioned it). It looks like his structure is changing and he has this really weird body posture going on, then right before the curtain opens he assumes this really almost regal straight backed posture with his one foot on his toes.
Then he comes on stage as almost an entirely different person.
It is a great character study. I really want him back as Joker for a Batman movie. He was fantastic. He really felt more like the comic Joker (as opposed to Ledgers straight chaotic evil). Like how he just shoots Murray then sits there and is bouncing his legs like no big deal, then gets up shoots him again because he thinks it's funny, then it looks like he will shoot again and decides not to and just nonchalantly flips/throws the gun away.
There was one really cringey moment with my theater audience. It was when the meme happens (with Randall in the apartment). Someone burst out with a really high forced laugh at the doorlock.
It was bad. Ugh.
I agree.
A scene that really sticks out to me was when he was about to go on to the show. It looks like he is doing another dance routine but it looks less like a dance and more like he is transforming. I think it's a reference to when someone mentions werewolves (I think Arthur mentioned it). It looks like his structure is changing and he has this really weird body posture going on, then right before the curtain opens he assumes this really almost regal straight backed posture with his one foot on his toes.
Then he comes on stage as almost an entirely different person.
More evidence that the whole movie was in his head.
In numerology, 11:11 usually signifies some form of enlightenment, which foreshadows the third act of the movie.
Also, I liked what they did with the mom. I thought she was such a sweet lady he was taking care of, but the wheels start coming off the rails and the train is hurtling down a mountain.
It really hit me when she was like "You want to be a comedian? Don't you have to be funny to be one?". I was like, what? From this sweet woman? Ruthless. Then you find out. Some real Mindhunter shit.
It really hit me when she was like "You want to be a comedian? Don't you have to be funny to be one?". I was like, what? From this sweet woman? Ruthless. Then you find out. Some real Mindhunter shit.
Damn Joker is really landing hard in Germany. My premium showing was sold out today and they actually brought out a performer in full Joker gear mimicking Phoenix's performance. Just before the curtain lifted he did the dance set to the OST while rambling about society and that we should break the wheel.
My showing was super into it and also applauded the film at the end. Quite the rare reaction here.
Great movie. Watching Phoenix was a delight and it was tense throughout. Stunning OST and cinematography.
My showing was super into it and also applauded the film at the end. Quite the rare reaction here.
Great movie. Watching Phoenix was a delight and it was tense throughout. Stunning OST and cinematography.
Why? Significance of 11:11?More evidence that the whole movie was in his head.
Catching up, but finally saw this last night and really really liked it.
But he's TwIsTeD! You get it!? He's twistedddd! It's so much better than a forehead tattoo that we gotta focus on it a whooole lot!
(As someone who generally loves when figurative concepts are represented literally, it was a bummer to see how... tactless it felt here.)
Just got out of the movie. Wow. I'm still trying to process it. Also, as someone who suffers from clinical depression with anxiety, this movie hits you hard. Joaquin's portrayal was masterful. Just ugh I can't stop gushing about this movie. Definitely better than Heath Ledger without even thinking about it.
I saw it yesterday, that was a great fucking movie.Top Comic material with The Dark Knight and Logan. But even f it wasn't, I fail to grasp how this could be seen as validating incels or causing mass shootings. Did the US media lost his mind just because of "Eat the rich"?
I finally saw it. I thought it was pretty great. BUT. The Batman origin story was wayyyyyyy too on the nose. Like they did not need to show the whole thing...just a hint of it. Also I thought the Joker rant at the end was too blatant with the meaning of the film and maybe should've been half as long. I was compelled the whole time.
