JOKER - Teaser Trailer

TaterTots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,009
Overall it seems as though the response is pretty positive. However, I noticed some Youtubers are saying they don't want to know the Jokers back story because they don't want to feel sympathy for the character. I do not understand that response. I think a lot of people have heard of The Killing Joke and it touches on his backstory. Failed comedian that starts robbing places with others to support his pregnant wife etc. That's a highly revered story. If people can accept that, why can't they accept it for the movie?

If it ends up being good, of course.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,655
Overall it seems as though the response is pretty positive. However, I noticed some Youtubers are saying they don't want to know the Jokers back story because they don't want to feel sympathy for the character. I do not understand that response. I think a lot of people have heard of The Killing Joke and it touches on his backstory. Failed comedian that starts robbing places with others to support his pregnant wife etc. That's a highly revered story. If people can accept that, why can't they accept it for the movie?

If it ends up being good, of course.
As I was reading your post I was thinking of The Killing Joke, too. It's weird how that's the "canon" story for the Joker, and has been for a long ass time, maybe longer than they've been alive, but this movie can't touch upon that. Even weirder when you realize that this takes place in a completely alternate universe that's not connected to the current DCEU and takes place in a world where the Joker becomes the Joker when Batman isn't even around.

This is very much it's own thing that shouldn't be judged by comparing it to what they believe the normal Joker to be, I feel.
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,747
Probably a weird opinion, but I think my favourite part of the trailer is at 0:53 with Arthur sitting down with the girlfriend and you can see the sadness in his eyes while trying to smile.
 

TaterTots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,009
As I was reading your post I was thinking of The Killing Joke, too. It's weird how that's the "canon" story for the Joker, and has been for a long ass time, maybe longer than they've been alive, but this movie can't touch upon that. Even weirder when you realize that this takes place in a completely alternate universe that's not connected to the current DCEU and takes place in a world where the Joker becomes the Joker when Batman isn't even around.

This is very much it's own thing that shouldn't be judged by comparing it to what they believe the normal Joker to be, I feel.
I guess my point is that people enjoy The Killing Joke and have accepted it as cannon even though there are moments where it tries to entice you to feel sympathy for the character. Even though this is a standalone film basically in another universe, there are some saying they aren't feeling it because it shows the "backstory," which isn't even the REAL backstory. .......I'm just not understanding the line of thinking................................

I just realized how convoluted this all is.
 

Dommo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
667
Australia
As I was reading your post I was thinking of The Killing Joke, too. It's weird how that's the "canon" story for the Joker, and has been for a long ass time, maybe longer than they've been alive, but this movie can't touch upon that. Even weirder when you realize that this takes place in a completely alternate universe that's not connected to the current DCEU and takes place in a world where the Joker becomes the Joker when Batman isn't even around.

This is very much it's own thing that shouldn't be judged by comparing it to what they believe the normal Joker to be, I feel.
I think it's that while The Killing Joke shows his backstory, it also very strongly implies it's just one possible backstory that The Joker may have just made up. Ironically, in doing so, it was this story that sort of cemented the idea of The Joker's past being hazy and undefined for a lot of fans. The Dark Knight obviously rolled with this further, giving no background to The Joker's life besides the deliberately contradictory stories he tells throughout.

I've got no problem showing an actual origin on-screen and I don't know why that should fuck with anything outside of this one film because, as you say, it's its own thing. If it's a good movie it's a good movie.
 

nasirum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,925
Somewhere
The fact that they're working with mental illness makes this precarious for me.

If they respect that aspect of the story, this could be a great, dark take on the character.
 

Dommo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
667
Australia
Probably a weird opinion, but I think my favourite part of the trailer is at 0:53 with Arthur sitting down with the girlfriend and you can see the sadness in his eyes while trying to smile.
Just in this trailer, you can see how incredible an actor Phoenix is. He's doing so much heavy-lifting and storytelling in his expressions. The trailer puts his intimate facial expressions at the forefront/as the selling point of the film which is quite remarkable given it's a DC comic-book film.



Like here, in the span of two seconds, we go from rejection/disengagement/self-loathing/bitterness to vulnerability/fear and finally to putting on a mask to cover up his problems with happiness. But his eyes are always reading something sadder and more sinister. Similar to the scene you're mentioning. Covering up intense and unbridled sadness with a superficial smile. His laughter at 1:05 is the most forced laughter of all time. And then that one at 1:11 where he's literally clawing his cheeks up to smile but there's absolutely nothing but hollow sadness beneath.

Shoutout to the way he runs as well. It's got so much energy and physicality to it. He looks so off-kilter, off-rhythm and desperate. Like a rabid animal trying to get free.
 

robotrock

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Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,394


Like here, in the span of two seconds, we go from rejection/disengagement/self-loathing/bitterness to vulnerability/fear and finally to putting on a mask to cover up his problems with happiness.

if you think this is impressive, watch split. mcavoy does much more with his facial expressions in the span of two seconds
 

Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
2,957
Just in this trailer, you can see how incredible an actor Phoenix is. He's doing so much heavy-lifting and storytelling in his expressions. The trailer puts his intimate facial expressions at the forefront/as the selling point of the film which is quite remarkable given it's a DC comic-book film.



Like here, in the span of two seconds, we go from rejection/disengagement/self-loathing/bitterness to vulnerability/fear and finally to putting on a mask to cover up his problems with happiness. But his eyes are always reading something sadder and more sinister. Similar to the scene you're mentioning. Covering up intense and unbridled sadness with a superficial smile. His laughter at 1:05 is the most forced laughter of all time. And then that one at 1:11 where he's literally clawing his cheeks up to smile but there's absolutely nothing but hollow sadness beneath.

Shoutout to the way he runs as well. It's got so much energy and physicality to it. He looks so off-kilter, off-rhythm and desperate. Like a rabid animal trying to get free.
He is so fucking good. Really good way to put how special Pheonix is as an actor. That exact scene caught my eye too. It was perfect.
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,810
I've seen this trailer so many times. I haven't been this excited for a DC film since TDK. I"m with this grounded portrayal of the Joker. It's just got this particular thing about him that actually makes him, The Joker, feel like he makes everyone in the DC Universe feel. We always see him and everyone's always freaked out, weirded out, scared, creeped out, just something with him but I don't think that's translated well within any of the movies. Yeah Heath's Joker is amazing but it was a different type of Joker.

This one feels like he'd give people the same feeling as he's giving all of Gotham. That's a hard task to accomplish.
 
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Seeya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,035
Probably a weird opinion, but I think my favourite part of the trailer is at 0:53 with Arthur sitting down with the girlfriend and you can see the sadness in his eyes while trying to smile.
Personally I love how the trailer opens and closes juxtaposed from Arthur practically dragging himself up the stairs in a gloomy overcast day to, as the joker, energetically descending them on a bright sunny day.

The decent is certainly an intentional element.

Just in this trailer, you can see how incredible an actor Phoenix is. He's doing so much heavy-lifting and storytelling in his expressions. The trailer puts his intimate facial expressions at the forefront/as the selling point of the film which is quite remarkable given it's a DC comic-book film.



Like here, in the span of two seconds, we go from rejection/disengagement/self-loathing/bitterness to vulnerability/fear and finally to putting on a mask to cover up his problems with happiness. But his eyes are always reading something sadder and more sinister. Similar to the scene you're mentioning. Covering up intense and unbridled sadness with a superficial smile. His laughter at 1:05 is the most forced laughter of all time. And then that one at 1:11 where he's literally clawing his cheeks up to smile but there's absolutely nothing but hollow sadness beneath.

Shoutout to the way he runs as well. It's got so much energy and physicality to it. He looks so off-kilter, off-rhythm and desperate. Like a rabid animal trying to get free.
It reminds me of the way that ledgers joker ran, but with greater fear or a lack of control.
 

DvergrBlod

Member
Oct 26, 2017
107
Is "Oscar bait" a new way to criticize something without actually really having any idea of what one is criticizing? Feels like a blanket term for "I can't elaborate on criticism with my own words, so I'll just throw this random generic term to cover all bases".
To me feels like it's often used of movies that have "art-house" look or are more of character study than some grand journey.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,285
I'm ok with this to be honest. My favorite comics are always the standalone DC ones.

This for me is a Joker's backstory. Not the backstory of every Joker ever. My favorite incarnation still remains The Dark Knight's though. Chaos and lies in human form.
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,747
Just in this trailer, you can see how incredible an actor Phoenix is. He's doing so much heavy-lifting and storytelling in his expressions. The trailer puts his intimate facial expressions at the forefront/as the selling point of the film which is quite remarkable given it's a DC comic-book film.



Like here, in the span of two seconds, we go from rejection/disengagement/self-loathing/bitterness to vulnerability/fear and finally to putting on a mask to cover up his problems with happiness. But his eyes are always reading something sadder and more sinister. Similar to the scene you're mentioning. Covering up intense and unbridled sadness with a superficial smile. His laughter at 1:05 is the most forced laughter of all time. And then that one at 1:11 where he's literally clawing his cheeks up to smile but there's absolutely nothing but hollow sadness beneath.

Shoutout to the way he runs as well. It's got so much energy and physicality to it. He looks so off-kilter, off-rhythm and desperate. Like a rabid animal trying to get free.
Absolutely. And I can’t remember rewatching a trailer this much in a really long time.

I’ve been trying to figure out why he’d be at Arkham, I’m thinking that his mother gets sent there.
 

BreezyLimbo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,725
Just in this trailer, you can see how incredible an actor Phoenix is. He's doing so much heavy-lifting and storytelling in his expressions. The trailer puts his intimate facial expressions at the forefront/as the selling point of the film which is quite remarkable given it's a DC comic-book film.



Like here, in the span of two seconds, we go from rejection/disengagement/self-loathing/bitterness to vulnerability/fear and finally to putting on a mask to cover up his problems with happiness. But his eyes are always reading something sadder and more sinister. Similar to the scene you're mentioning. Covering up intense and unbridled sadness with a superficial smile. His laughter at 1:05 is the most forced laughter of all time. And then that one at 1:11 where he's literally clawing his cheeks up to smile but there's absolutely nothing but hollow sadness beneath.

Shoutout to the way he runs as well. It's got so much energy and physicality to it. He looks so off-kilter, off-rhythm and desperate. Like a rabid animal trying to get free.
Yeah, Phoenix shows alot of nuance in his facial expressions throughout the video. Whether it's real joy at giving his mother(?) a bath or doing the sign work, to this scene, to his forced laughter at the club, it looks fantastic. The bit in the end where he's in full mask and hopping down the stairs, just the way he moves shows that he's in a different personality.
 

DixieDean82

Member
Oct 27, 2017
675
Movie looks good. I've come around to the idea of these standalone movies now. Not everything needs to be connected.
 

5olid_5nake

Member
Oct 30, 2017
217
Just in this trailer, you can see how incredible an actor Phoenix is. He's doing so much heavy-lifting and storytelling in his expressions. The trailer puts his intimate facial expressions at the forefront/as the selling point of the film which is quite remarkable given it's a DC comic-book film.



Like here, in the span of two seconds, we go from rejection/disengagement/self-loathing/bitterness to vulnerability/fear and finally to putting on a mask to cover up his problems with happiness. But his eyes are always reading something sadder and more sinister. Similar to the scene you're mentioning. Covering up intense and unbridled sadness with a superficial smile. His laughter at 1:05 is the most forced laughter of all time. And then that one at 1:11 where he's literally clawing his cheeks up to smile but there's absolutely nothing but hollow sadness beneath.

Shoutout to the way he runs as well. It's got so much energy and physicality to it. He looks so off-kilter, off-rhythm and desperate. Like a rabid animal trying to get free.
Great post. He reminds me of Jack Nicholson in the Shining somehow.
 
Oct 29, 2017
614
I haven't turned around my opinion on a film this quickly too be honest. I went from "whatever" even with JP involved to "holy shit, this is amazing" as I was watching the trailer. And King of Comedy is an amazing film.
 

FaceHugger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,306
The way he says "If you just smile" at the end of the narration was Joker as it gets.

Edit: I wonder if the boy he's playing with and forces a smile on is Bruce Wayne.
 
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Arkanius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,567
Okay, I wanted to wait a little before commenting. I watched this trailer now like 20 times to see what people were raving about it. But come on. This is like one of the most pretentious stories ever. I mean, come the fuck on. Ooooh, poor dude is a clown who has it rough in life. Ooooh, then he snaps because his mom, and life is hard. Boohooo, what a surprise in this day and age. But yeah, lets make it a lil darker so it doesnt look as ridiculous as it actually is. And peeeeopl buy it. They buy it. And I think its shocking. And then they dare to shit on Jared Leto who presented a Joker that just didnt copy the old ones like Phoenix does. No, Leto went a new way, a damaged way. A way that was destroyed by producers and the former DC team. But if you listen to the stories people told, and the secret scripts, you will find out that there was soooo much more to Jareds Joker. A performance for ages. From an actor who went the extra mile. I dont wanna shit on Phoenix, but who has the Oscar? Who made the Oscar worthy performance so far? Its Jared Leto. A person who should have gotten a second chance besides giving us this lukewarm new storyline. now, im sorry, but i dont see it lads. this is not the what i wanted. i feel sorry.
Am I being trolled?
 

riverfr0zen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,274
Manhattan, New York
Absolutely. And I can’t remember rewatching a trailer this much in a really long time.

I’ve been trying to figure out why he’d be at Arkham, I’m thinking that his mother gets sent there.
Isn't there a scene where he's being interviewed by a therapist type? Maybe he's in for an appointment. Having said that there has to be some deal with his mother that becomes the trigger event for his criminality, Criminal Minds style.
 

Kemono

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,489
Yeah, Phoenix shows alot of nuance in his facial expressions throughout the video. Whether it's real joy at giving his mother(?) a bath or doing the sign work, to this scene, to his forced laughter at the club, it looks fantastic. The bit in the end where he's in full mask and hopping down the stairs, just the way he moves shows that he's in a different personality.
His laughter in the subway feels so fucking sad to me. It's haunting but with an extremely sad undertone imo.

Phoenix is really killing it. I hope the movie will be as good as the trailer suggests.
 

Effect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,673
However, I noticed some Youtubers are saying they don't want to know the Jokers back story because they don't want to feel sympathy for the character. I do not understand that response.
What I have noticed over time is that there are a people that just don't want to acknowledge the gray areas that exist in comics in general and specifically with Batman's world itself. They want things to be very black and white. Cheer for the hero and hate the villain who is evil just for the sake of it A lot of times you can do that but you can very easily go extremely gray and blur that line. Mr. Freeze is great example of this where the best version of that character is when you go all gray with him and make you feel for him. Feeling sympathy for how a character became a certain way doesn't mean you have to turn turn around an accept or like what they do or become. You don't pick a side and stick with it and I think sometimes they don't understand that.
 
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Kenzodielocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,046
Just baffled how people think any property must be in some connection to other movies. It's just a movie, with an end, or an open end. That's it.
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
576
I have a feeling this will cameo (or have a glimpse) Matt Reeves' Batman.
40 years in the past? I highly doubt it.

Just baffled how people think any property must be in some connection to other movies. It's just a movie, with an end, or an open end. That's it.
For real. The obsession with universes has diluted the film industry in many ways. This is beyond comic movies too... Why do Universal need a film universe of monsters? Why does DC need to jumpstart a film universe instead of slowly building it up before deciding they're ready for their characters to meet?

Makes no damn sense. Give me good movies, IDGAF about film universes!
 

sibarraz

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,556
Has been confirmed if the kid that appears in the trailer is Bruce Wayne?

I saw a website claiming as a matter of fact that he was, but I obviously would take this with a grain of salt
 

Pandora012

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,568
What I have noticed over time is that there are a people that just don't want to acknowledge the gray areas that exist in comics in general and specifically with Batman's world itself. They want things to be very black and white. Cheer for the hero and hate the villain who is evil just for the sake of it A lot of times you can do that but you can very easily go extremely gray and blur that line. Mr. Freeze is great example of this where the best version of that character is when you go all gray with him and make you feel for him. Feeling sympathy for how a character became a certain way doesn't mean you have to turn turn around an accept or like what they do or become. You don't pick a side and stick with it and I think sometimes they don't understand that.
Now I want a Mr. Freeze movie.
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,747
I could see this proto- Joker hearing about the Wayne's deaths on TV and making a trip to the Manor in the hopes of putting a smile on an orphan boy's face.
Or visiting him after killing his parents.

Absolutely. The whole teaser is him putting on a happy face he doesn't believe.
There’s a childlike innocence too with this depiction of the Joker that will make his fall much more tragic.
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,413
Probably a weird opinion, but I think my favourite part of the trailer is at 0:53 with Arthur sitting down with the girlfriend and you can see the sadness in his eyes while trying to smile.
Nope, it's one of the small details I noticed too. The flicker of sadness after the smile. Phoenix is an acting god.